We, people, care little about those digits after thousand commas.
And yet the people still wonder where their drive's capacity is so much lower than they think it should be. If you've never had to explain it then you're lucky. I just hope that Windows will start using Base-10 to represent size.
And yet the people still wonder where their drive's capacity is so much lower than they think it should be. If you've never had to explain it then you're lucky. I just hope that Windows will start using Base-10 to represent size.
No, never did. Windows? I have my bosses and IT department to care about Windows.
It is good, but I bet people will think Apple is being sleazy with the use of the SI standard over the JEDEC standard.
That's not a real standard. It's just when you count by base 2. That's like saying that every time you add one number to a total and you get a number that's one larger, it's a standard. It's not, it's just what it is.
A standard is really some arbitrary method of recognizing, or doing something. Neither Base 2 or Base 10 are standards in that sense. They're just mathematical ways of representing numbers.
And yet the people still wonder where their drive's capacity is so much lower than they think it should be. If you've never had to explain it then you're lucky. I just hope that Windows will start using Base-10 to represent size.
That's the problem then, isn't it?
"...Lower than they THINK it SHOULD be." Not lower than what it would be no matter how it's counted.
Oh no you did not! You just completely mangled a base-2 method of counting with a base-10.
A base-2 kilobyte (or more properly a kibibyte) is 2^10, or 1,024 bytes
A base-10 kilobyte is 1,000 bytes
A base-2 megabyte (or more properly a mebibyte) is 2^20, or 1,048,576 bytes
A base-10 megabyte is 1,000,000 bytes.
Nowhere is a megabyte 1,024,000 bytes.
Yes, yes, I know. Don't make a big deal out of it. It was an error. It doesn't change anything in the argument.
What it does show is that if someone whose been dealing with this since the mid 1960's can make the mistake because he didn't give it much thought in a discussion, then the average consumer has no chance at all.
I think decimalization here is ok because although the core structures are base-2, there's no need to count the groups in base-2.
We use other non-decimal systems ok like time, in base-12 units: 60 seconds per minute, 60 minutes per hour. You could instead have 100 minutes per hour, 100 seconds per minute. Trouble is, a day is well defined so unless you redefine how long 1 second lasts then you would end up with 8.64 hours in a day. If you only have 10 seconds per minute or 10 minutes per hour, you get 86.4 hours to deal with and that number is harder to deal with.
For convenience, the core measurements are base-12 but we group decades, millenia and anything smaller than 1 second in base-10.
It's confusing to use the standard prefixes mega, giga, tera etc and not mean base-10 amounts.
I think the whole thing should change though. If it changes bit by bit (no pun), then people will be worse off and asking what the difference is more often.
Anyway, this thread is about the future iphone and I still say that given what Tegra is capable of - pretty high end gaming for mobiles, 720p output over HDMI, very fluid multi-tasking:
I would be very disappointed if Apple decided to skip over it, especially considering their recent links with Nvidia and also the fact that the video shows it's already designed to run Windows mobile.
Battery life shouldn't be too bad and they say it does 720p output for 30 hours. The current iphone will only output SD video for about 2-3 hours.
"NVIDIA Tegra 650 also features:
All-day media processing, for 130 hours audio, 30 hours HD video playback
HD image processing for advanced digital still camera and HD camcorder functions
Optimized hardware support for Web 2.0 applications for a true desktop-class internet experience
Display support for 1080p HDMI, WSXGA+ LCD and CRT, and NTSC/PAL TV-Out
Direct support for WiFi, disk drives, keyboard, mouse, and other peripherals
A complete Board Support Package (BSP) to enable fast times to market for Windows Mobile-based designs"
"Microsoft is dedicated to providing people best-in-class mobile experiences, so that people can carry a single device for work and play."
Unfortunately for Apple, it's not just about the software. The above demo with capacitive touch display looked great. Clearly Apple-influenced on many levels again of course but if they match or come close to Apple's software experience on far better hardware at a lower price, the iphone will slide down the list of must-have devices.
They can use PowerVR chips for GPGPU stuff though and the PowerVR SGX543 looks pretty good:
This chip would be over double what the current iphone one can do and would match the performance of the PSP. I haven't found performance details for Tegra and I imagine it would still be a good deal faster but the PowerVR offerings would suffice - I think a chip with OpenCL support is a must.
600MHz CPU
PowerVR SGX543
16GB/32GB config
Mini-displayport output?
More power-efficient 3G and wifi or just better battery tech.
Normal displayport has an aux channel for full USB 2 transfer. It would be nice if they could provide a single mini-dp to USB and HDMI video-output cable. Saves buying huge 3rd party cables with 6 connectors on them.
I think decimalization here is ok because although the core structures are base-2, there's no need to count the groups in base-2.
From the user PoV, there isn't a need and Apple (as I've heard) is seeing that by being the first OS(?) to move to a Base-10 representation of the kilo, mega, and tera throughout Snow Leopard. So your 1TB HDD will shouw in Finder, Disk Utility, Get Info, etc. as 1TB (1,000,237,400,064 Bytes) not as 931GB (1,000,237,400,064 Bytes). It's about fraken time and I hope this catches on.
Quote:
Normal displayport has an aux channel for full USB 2 transfer. It would be nice if they could provide a single mini-dp to USB and HDMI video-output cable. Saves buying huge 3rd party cables with 6 connectors on them.
I mentioned this awhile back. I don't care if they use the 30-pin connector since it does work, but could they have a mDP port as the new output for iDevices? Would this be viable?
Also, what are the pros and cons of PowerVR and Nvidia's offerings. Are both ready for Apple's needs this summer? They are in 88 countries and I assume about 2x as many iPhones in the same time frame they did last year at that time.
I mentioned this awhile back. I don't care if they use the 30-pin connector since it does work, but could they have a mDP port as the new output for iDevices? Would this be viable?
If other mobiles already have HDMI output, Mini-dp output should be just as feasible. I don't mind the 30-pin cable much but I'd like to see a solution that allows a small plug to be recessed inside the iphone so only the cable hangs out. The large external plug gets in the way of car holders and protective sleeves. Plus they put pressure on the port. One of my friend's iphones is cracked near the port.
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism
Also, what are the pros and cons of PowerVR and Nvidia's offerings. Are both ready for Apple's needs this summer? They are in 88 countries and I assume about 2x as many iPhones in the same time frame they did last year at that time.
PowerVR should be more power efficient but Tegra is faster. The 3rd video here shows Tegra running Quake 3 at 720p:
The guy in the Tegra video avoided committing to battery life while playing games and this may be where it doesn't matter if Tegra is faster. If it only lasts for half an hour doing full 3D then it's pointless - it would definitely use more power doing 3D than it does playing video.
The PSP lasts about 5 hours playing games and the PowerVR chip is that level of performance. Phone batteries are smaller so I wouldn't expect 5 hours of gameplay but over double the performance for the same time we get now on the iphone or more if they use better battery tech then that would be pretty good.
Tegra is definitely ready to ship this Summer according to Nvidia. I don't know about the SGX 543 but since the SGX family support OpenCL, I would think they've been working closely with Apple on some level. Plus they are backwards compatible with the MBX so previous apps/games should work just the same.
If other mobiles already have HDMI output, Mini-dp output should be just as feasible. I don't mind the 30-pin cable much but I'd like to see a solution that allows a small plug to be recessed inside the iphone so only the cable hangs out. The large external plug gets in the way of car holders and protective sleeves. Plus they put pressure on the port. One of my friend's iphones is cracked near the port.
PowerVR should be more power efficient but Tegra is faster. The 3rd video here shows Tegra running Quake 3 at 720p:
The guy in the Tegra video avoided committing to battery life while playing games and this may be where it doesn't matter if Tegra is faster. If it only lasts for half an hour doing full 3D then it's pointless - it would definitely use more power doing 3D than it does playing video.
The PSP lasts about 5 hours playing games and the PowerVR chip is that level of performance. Phone batteries are smaller so I wouldn't expect 5 hours of gameplay but over double the performance for the same time we get now on the iphone or more if they use better battery tech then that would be pretty good.
Tegra is definitely ready to ship this Summer according to Nvidia. I don't know about the SGX 543 but since the SGX family support OpenCL, I would think they've been working closely with Apple on some level. Plus they are backwards compatible with the MBX so previous apps/games should work just the same.
One of the jokes I've read several times in the computer press has been about the supposed MS Tegra offering. It was about the ten minutes the phone will work.
Comments
It is good, but I bet people will think Apple is being sleazy with the use of the SI standard over the JEDEC standard.
We, people, care little about those digits after thousand commas.
We, people, care little about those digits after thousand commas.
And yet the people still wonder where their drive's capacity is so much lower than they think it should be. If you've never had to explain it then you're lucky. I just hope that Windows will start using Base-10 to represent size.
And yet the people still wonder where their drive's capacity is so much lower than they think it should be. If you've never had to explain it then you're lucky. I just hope that Windows will start using Base-10 to represent size.
No, never did. Windows? I have my bosses and IT department to care about Windows.
What is confusing is when a one million bytes is listed as .95MB, so a million is no longer being represented as a million.
One megabyte is 1,000,000 as far as I'm concerned. One megabyte is 1,000,000 bytes. the extra 24,000 is just that, an additional 24,000 bytes.
It is good, but I bet people will think Apple is being sleazy with the use of the SI standard over the JEDEC standard.
That's not a real standard. It's just when you count by base 2. That's like saying that every time you add one number to a total and you get a number that's one larger, it's a standard. It's not, it's just what it is.
A standard is really some arbitrary method of recognizing, or doing something. Neither Base 2 or Base 10 are standards in that sense. They're just mathematical ways of representing numbers.
And yet the people still wonder where their drive's capacity is so much lower than they think it should be. If you've never had to explain it then you're lucky. I just hope that Windows will start using Base-10 to represent size.
That's the problem then, isn't it?
"...Lower than they THINK it SHOULD be." Not lower than what it would be no matter how it's counted.
One megabyte is 1,000,000 as far as I'm concerned. One megabyte is 1,000,000 bytes. the extra 24,000 is just that, an additional 24,000 bytes.
Oh no you did not! You just completely mangled a base-2 method of counting with a base-10.
A base-2 kilobyte (or more properly a kibibyte) is 2^10, or 1,024 bytes
A base-10 kilobyte is 1,000 bytes
A base-2 megabyte (or more properly a mebibyte) is 2^20, or 1,048,576 bytes
A base-10 megabyte is 1,000,000 bytes.
Nowhere is a megabyte 1,024,000 bytes.
Oh no you did not! You just completely mangled a base-2 method of counting with a base-10.
A base-2 kilobyte (or more properly a kibibyte) is 2^10, or 1,024 bytes
A base-10 kilobyte is 1,000 bytes
A base-2 megabyte (or more properly a mebibyte) is 2^20, or 1,048,576 bytes
A base-10 megabyte is 1,000,000 bytes.
Nowhere is a megabyte 1,024,000 bytes.
Yes, yes, I know. Don't make a big deal out of it. It was an error. It doesn't change anything in the argument.
What it does show is that if someone whose been dealing with this since the mid 1960's can make the mistake because he didn't give it much thought in a discussion, then the average consumer has no chance at all.
We use other non-decimal systems ok like time, in base-12 units: 60 seconds per minute, 60 minutes per hour. You could instead have 100 minutes per hour, 100 seconds per minute. Trouble is, a day is well defined so unless you redefine how long 1 second lasts then you would end up with 8.64 hours in a day. If you only have 10 seconds per minute or 10 minutes per hour, you get 86.4 hours to deal with and that number is harder to deal with.
For convenience, the core measurements are base-12 but we group decades, millenia and anything smaller than 1 second in base-10.
It's confusing to use the standard prefixes mega, giga, tera etc and not mean base-10 amounts.
I think the whole thing should change though. If it changes bit by bit (no pun), then people will be worse off and asking what the difference is more often.
Anyway, this thread is about the future iphone and I still say that given what Tegra is capable of - pretty high end gaming for mobiles, 720p output over HDMI, very fluid multi-tasking:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lTEaWfTO-zE
I would be very disappointed if Apple decided to skip over it, especially considering their recent links with Nvidia and also the fact that the video shows it's already designed to run Windows mobile.
Battery life shouldn't be too bad and they say it does 720p output for 30 hours. The current iphone will only output SD video for about 2-3 hours.
"NVIDIA Tegra 650 also features:
All-day media processing, for 130 hours audio, 30 hours HD video playback
HD image processing for advanced digital still camera and HD camcorder functions
Optimized hardware support for Web 2.0 applications for a true desktop-class internet experience
Display support for 1080p HDMI, WSXGA+ LCD and CRT, and NTSC/PAL TV-Out
Direct support for WiFi, disk drives, keyboard, mouse, and other peripherals
A complete Board Support Package (BSP) to enable fast times to market for Windows Mobile-based designs"
"Microsoft is dedicated to providing people best-in-class mobile experiences, so that people can carry a single device for work and play."
Unfortunately for Apple, it's not just about the software. The above demo with capacitive touch display looked great. Clearly Apple-influenced on many levels again of course but if they match or come close to Apple's software experience on far better hardware at a lower price, the iphone will slide down the list of must-have devices.
They can use PowerVR chips for GPGPU stuff though and the PowerVR SGX543 looks pretty good:
http://www.imgtec.com/news/Release/index.asp?NewsID=428
This chip would be over double what the current iphone one can do and would match the performance of the PSP. I haven't found performance details for Tegra and I imagine it would still be a good deal faster but the PowerVR offerings would suffice - I think a chip with OpenCL support is a must.
600MHz CPU
PowerVR SGX543
16GB/32GB config
Mini-displayport output?
More power-efficient 3G and wifi or just better battery tech.
Normal displayport has an aux channel for full USB 2 transfer. It would be nice if they could provide a single mini-dp to USB and HDMI video-output cable. Saves buying huge 3rd party cables with 6 connectors on them.
I think decimalization here is ok because although the core structures are base-2, there's no need to count the groups in base-2.
From the user PoV, there isn't a need and Apple (as I've heard) is seeing that by being the first OS(?) to move to a Base-10 representation of the kilo, mega, and tera throughout Snow Leopard. So your 1TB HDD will shouw in Finder, Disk Utility, Get Info, etc. as 1TB (1,000,237,400,064 Bytes) not as 931GB (1,000,237,400,064 Bytes). It's about fraken time and I hope this catches on.
Normal displayport has an aux channel for full USB 2 transfer. It would be nice if they could provide a single mini-dp to USB and HDMI video-output cable. Saves buying huge 3rd party cables with 6 connectors on them.
I mentioned this awhile back. I don't care if they use the 30-pin connector since it does work, but could they have a mDP port as the new output for iDevices? Would this be viable?
Also, what are the pros and cons of PowerVR and Nvidia's offerings. Are both ready for Apple's needs this summer? They are in 88 countries and I assume about 2x as many iPhones in the same time frame they did last year at that time.
I mentioned this awhile back. I don't care if they use the 30-pin connector since it does work, but could they have a mDP port as the new output for iDevices? Would this be viable?
If other mobiles already have HDMI output, Mini-dp output should be just as feasible. I don't mind the 30-pin cable much but I'd like to see a solution that allows a small plug to be recessed inside the iphone so only the cable hangs out. The large external plug gets in the way of car holders and protective sleeves. Plus they put pressure on the port. One of my friend's iphones is cracked near the port.
Also, what are the pros and cons of PowerVR and Nvidia's offerings. Are both ready for Apple's needs this summer? They are in 88 countries and I assume about 2x as many iPhones in the same time frame they did last year at that time.
PowerVR should be more power efficient but Tegra is faster. The 3rd video here shows Tegra running Quake 3 at 720p:
http://www.engadget.com/2009/02/17/n...d-pumping-out/
Here is a PowerVR SGX running Quake 3 - not the 543 though:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6lCn568FSUc
The guy in the Tegra video avoided committing to battery life while playing games and this may be where it doesn't matter if Tegra is faster. If it only lasts for half an hour doing full 3D then it's pointless - it would definitely use more power doing 3D than it does playing video.
The PSP lasts about 5 hours playing games and the PowerVR chip is that level of performance. Phone batteries are smaller so I wouldn't expect 5 hours of gameplay but over double the performance for the same time we get now on the iphone or more if they use better battery tech then that would be pretty good.
Tegra is definitely ready to ship this Summer according to Nvidia. I don't know about the SGX 543 but since the SGX family support OpenCL, I would think they've been working closely with Apple on some level. Plus they are backwards compatible with the MBX so previous apps/games should work just the same.
If other mobiles already have HDMI output, Mini-dp output should be just as feasible. I don't mind the 30-pin cable much but I'd like to see a solution that allows a small plug to be recessed inside the iphone so only the cable hangs out. The large external plug gets in the way of car holders and protective sleeves. Plus they put pressure on the port. One of my friend's iphones is cracked near the port.
PowerVR should be more power efficient but Tegra is faster. The 3rd video here shows Tegra running Quake 3 at 720p:
http://www.engadget.com/2009/02/17/n...d-pumping-out/
Here is a PowerVR SGX running Quake 3 - not the 543 though:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6lCn568FSUc
The guy in the Tegra video avoided committing to battery life while playing games and this may be where it doesn't matter if Tegra is faster. If it only lasts for half an hour doing full 3D then it's pointless - it would definitely use more power doing 3D than it does playing video.
The PSP lasts about 5 hours playing games and the PowerVR chip is that level of performance. Phone batteries are smaller so I wouldn't expect 5 hours of gameplay but over double the performance for the same time we get now on the iphone or more if they use better battery tech then that would be pretty good.
Tegra is definitely ready to ship this Summer according to Nvidia. I don't know about the SGX 543 but since the SGX family support OpenCL, I would think they've been working closely with Apple on some level. Plus they are backwards compatible with the MBX so previous apps/games should work just the same.
One of the jokes I've read several times in the computer press has been about the supposed MS Tegra offering. It was about the ten minutes the phone will work.
I'm not clear on the chips' efficiency.