I think you're right in principle, but perhaps not entirely in the specific reasons why. It's very true that Microsoft is the black sheep of the industry, but they did not start out developing operating systems for generic hardware. They started out developing the OS for IBM's proprietary hardware under contract to IBM. The hardware only became generic when Compaq figured out how to clone the IBM-PC without violating IBM's copyrights. Without that event, Microsoft is little more than an IBM subcontractor, and the industry continues to evolve along the lines it had before. Today a lot of people believe that Microsoft's model was Bill's great stroke of genius, when in reality, it fell into his lap.
Assuming Robert X. Cringley's Triumph of the Nerds documentary is accurate, there are so many little things that could have changed the history of computing. For instance, as I recall Gary Kildall (CP/M) couldn't be bothered so IBM went to Micorsoft who sold them PC-DOS despite only having heard about it yet had never seen it and certainly didn't own the right to it at that point. Without Big Blue's backing it would have been very hard for anyone to take MS seriously in a market full of emerging OSes.
Apple will not let you run OS X on a PC because they would rather have you pay for their overpriced hardware. They should open the restrictions and see how that goes. The lack of driver support for OS X would be an issue as Windows must work with all hardware while OS X only works with select hardware.
I have not run virus or spyware protection on my PC for years without issues. You just have to be cognizant of what you are doing.
I use Adobe Photoshop Elements and Premiere Elements which I find much better then iPhoto, iMovie, iDVD, and Final Cut Express. The package only costs $99. iPhoto is not a photo editor so you need to buy one anyway for any halfway serious photo editing.
What? Someone offers you $1700 to buy a computer, you settle for one that costs $1000?
At least buy a $1700 computer, get the cash from M$, return the computer and get a $1000 model then you can use the $700 for all the extra stuff you will need!
Assuming Robert X. Cringley's Triumph of the Nerds documentary is accurate, there are so many little things that could have changed the history of computing. For instance, as I recall Gary Kildall (CP/M) couldn't be bothered so IBM went to Micorsoft who sold them PC-DOS despite only having heard about it yet had never seen it and certainly didn't own the right to it at that point. Without Big Blue's backing it would have been very hard for anyone to take MS seriously in a market full of emerging OSes.
It's pretty accurate. I also recommend his book Accidental Empires, on which the series was based.
A whole series of serendipitous events made Microsoft's business. The first was IBM's need to build the PC quickly. They wanted it to run 16-bit CP/M but the Digital Research version wasn't done yet, and (as the story goes) IBM visited DR on a day when Kildall was away, and demanded that his wife sign a nondisclosure agreement before they'd even tell her why they were there. When she refused, they went to Microsoft next, although Microsoft had never written an OS. It had to help that the president of IBM John Opel served on the national board of United Way with Bill's mother. Anyway, Microsoft promised to deliver DOS within a year. The only way they were able to meet that deadline was by purchasing a 16-bit CP/M clone from a tiny company called Seattle Computing. Then Compaq destroyed IBM's PC business by reverse-engineering the ROM-BIOS (the only copyrighted component in the IBM-PC) and building the first clones. Microsoft was off to the races.
It's good to be smart, but it's so much better to be lucky.
We've had units of both kinds fail-soon and never-fail. But after two decades and hundreds of machines, those stats I quoted appear to be the way to bet. And what you want it to do is email, web, text - so yes, a $500 machine will suffice. For that matter so will the local library for $0. We're working with elementary and college labs that basically torture test anything we put on the table, and $500 doesn't cut it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pt123
Not for everyone. I had a Powerbook G3 and the cache went bad after 3 years. I had a Powerbook G4 and the backlight on the LCD went bad after 4 years. Replaced it with a $1299 Macbook. I have a Sony Vaio that lasted 5 years. I replaced it with a $500 Acer. It pretty much does everything I do on the Mac (email, web, word). No support issues on either computer. I can't really say what is a better deal over time until it is all said and done, but it is nice to get a 2nd computer for less than half the price that does everything I want it to.
I had the first generation Macbook and it had it shares of problems. It went back twice for warranty work - bad trackpad, DVD drive scratching the disc. It also had a problem with not shutting down correctly and heating up because the processor was still on. But I got rid of it and got the latest Macbook which is much better. So I would say it is hit or miss with either platform.
I think the ads are hilarious. In my humble opinion, MS should by now realize that it cannot compete with the Mac on quality, reliability and maybe even affordability.
The ads are funny in a really pathetic sense.
Smart buyers DO NOT go into a store and buy what's there. They generally spend time doing RESEARCH... weighing features, pros/cons, reading reviews, etc..
THEN they go to a store and actually buy EXACTLY what they want. or ORDER it and wait.
Only dumbasses, like the actors MS' advertising agency picked for these ads, would go into BestBuy (or equiv) and buy off the shelf.
So the message MS is sending is that the stupid and gullible consumer is OUR customer?
That's great way to polish the egos of your user base.
I guess they never heard of praise before punishment.
Quote:
I think they should target their ads to show off what Windows can do more effectively than the Mac.
Beyond gaming and some specialized industry-specific apps, give us some examples.
Not for everyone. I had a Powerbook G3 and the cache went bad after 3 years. I had a Powerbook G4 and the backlight on the LCD went bad after 4 years. Replaced it with a $1299 Macbook. I have a Sony Vaio that lasted 5 years. I replaced it with a $500 Acer.
One user's 5 years is different from another's.
If one machine was used for 12 hours a day for 4 years. And the other was used 6 hours a day for 5 years... ?
Do you have an approximate tally of how many HOURS the machines were actively being used?
Quote:
I had the first generation Macbook and it had it shares of problems. It went back twice for warranty work - bad trackpad, DVD drive scratching the disc. It also had a problem with not shutting down correctly and heating up because the processor was still on. But I got rid of it and got the latest Macbook which is much better. So I would say it is hit or miss with either platform.
The lesson there is to NEVER buy a FIRST model of ANY machine. Always wait for Rev.B or Rev.C where all the unforeseen problems of the first version have been resolved!
I've made THAT mistake a few of times, so now I'll buy the LAST version of a Mac just as the newly designed machine is being released...
I bought the LAST 15" PowerBook G4 when the FIRST MacBook Pro was released.
I bought the last 15" MacBook Pro right after the unibody 15" was released. (I'll also wait for the matte screen option for the 15" MBP uni to appear!!!!!)
I got both for a few hundred bucks less AND hardware-wise they were both solid, tested and reliable. Sure, I want all the latest goodies, but pain and bug free computing is worth a LOT more!
I gave up on buying new GM cars after such issues as rolled-in steel mill scale in the engine hood, causing the paint to flake off a Pontiac in the first year. I bought a new Olds where the driver's door hand grasp trim disintegrated after just a few months of pulling the door shut. Bad design and bad execution earned GM its just reward, with consumers turning away to more dependable and longer-lived products from Honda, Toyota and Nissan. Now the world's largest car company for decades is staring bankruptcy in the face.
So it may be with Microsoft. After 25 years of using products with ever more complex, cumbersome and trouble-prone operating systems from Microsoft, I made the break last year for the reliability and durability of Apple. Others are switching too, while Microsoft is still hell-bent on building operating systems with tailfins. Can the world's leading software business be sowing the seeds of its own destruction? Don't be surprised. GM today. Microsoft tomorrow.
GM's problem (apart from the other oems) is structural costs and the PERCEPTION of an inferior product (Detroit built sucky products in the 70s and 80s and they lost a generation of buyers because of it. There are many reports today that show parity with the other oems, but legacy carries on). So I don't think the analogy holds up. MS's issue is a true product quality issue, imo.
The Macintosh was never created as the computer for everyone. It was more like the computer for everyone who was willing to pay a premium.
Frankly I like that Macs come with a premium though it cuts both ways and sometimes even I get frustrated but the reality is I like a lot of things that Apple does.
I like that they don't succomb to putting 50 different logos on their computers. I think I can find out that an Apple TV has a HDMI port without having the sticker on the front.
I like that Apple doesn't install much nagware ..in fact I've never had my mac say "your trial period is up ...give us money if you wish to continue" Desktops for sale suck. Even with iPhoto photobooks or printing supplies its there as an options but you aren't harassed about it.
I like that Apple has the balls to move forward.
Getting rid of floppies
Moving to USB
Moving to Displayport
Supporting digital display output (DVI)
How long did it take PC vendors to get rid of parallel ports for chrissake?
Sorry. Apple doesn't ship 17" laptops with GMA graphics. They don't ship 4 pin non-powered Firewire. They don't add card readers to their computers so that you can save $15 on that cheapo Wal Mart reader.
What they do is make elegant computers that are highly functional to the skilled computer user. They made Unix accessible and attractive.
So I don't give damn if a PC user doesn't understand their lineup or doesn't recognize the beautiful and sturdy unibody casing or understand Apple's philosophy. Chances are you're simply not a Apple customer and more better suited to a PC anyways.
This is brilliant. Agree 100%.
People argue back and forth endlessly, but it really comes down to the fact that if you can't see the inherent quality in the Mac and intuitively realise that it's the better computer, then you really are better off with Windows.
iLife is pretty cool but to get all the features you really need the .mac account at $99 per year.
Also, if virus is a win in you book, as well as 50% of these posts, don't you find it ironic that all apple machines have virus protection except fit the models for sale on the floor?????
Ask anyone who works for apple, they will tell you that all networked macs connected to corprate have virus protection, timbuktu and apple can view/spy on any machine being used in Cupertino to apple stores. Sort if like secret service, they believe local police are trustworthy enough to guards it's citizens butas soon as the president arrives, all of them walk around with empty holsters. Take note next time you see footage. Anyway the point is virus protection not needed for consumers, but a must have for all apple machines.
Hmmmmmm
This is just insane nonsense.
Most of these sentences aren't, well .... sentences. The ones that are sentences make about as much sense as the average street mumbler asking for change.
Seriously I don't know what planet some of you are on.
Vista us not cheap. Yes it's a dud but windows 7 won't be and if it wasn't for the anti trust issues microsoft could snap up any company they wanted to, including Apple, and release hardware but it's a double edge sword. Really some if you have fan boy glasses that are way to thick.
Yeah, anti-trust is the only reason MS doesn't own Apple right now...
Please look at MS two year stock - heck, five - and then look at Apple's 2 or 5 year stock. Then ask Barclay's or anyone else who's a major stockholder if they want to swap Apple's performance for MS's.
Yeah, anti-trust is the only reason MS doesn't own Apple right now...
Please look at MS two year stock - heck, five - and then look at Apple's 2 or 5 year stock. Then ask Barclay's or anyone else who's a major stockholder if they want to swap Apple's performance for MS's.
And look that their marketcaps and revenues. I think some people look at marketshare of the OS and think that it somehow determines the value of a company.
Another way of looking at it is, how many OEM versions of Windows for $400 HPs and Dells need to be sold for MS to equal the revenue Apple gets from one MacBook sale?
I love to play the devil's advocate so let me start by bringing everyone down to earth by stating the Mac ads are just as disingenuous as the PC ads.
Most of the ads feature vague and non-descriptive reasons by PC's are worse. They use "viruses" and "issues" but tell me that you haven't had one 'issue' on a Mac ever? I had Time Machine stop working and killed a backup, 10.5.6 broke the connection between my Mac Pro and my HDMI LCD and a few updates ago my Mail.app stopped working and my 2007 iMac would get into random reboot loops that had to be fixed with an update. (Plus you do remember 10.1 - 10.3 right?)
I love my Mac but I've had just as many 'issues' since OS 9 -> Leopard as I have since Windows 98 -> Vista and both companies are just spreading bunk PR garbage to get you to buy their stuff. It's called 'advertising.'
Comments
I think you're right in principle, but perhaps not entirely in the specific reasons why. It's very true that Microsoft is the black sheep of the industry, but they did not start out developing operating systems for generic hardware. They started out developing the OS for IBM's proprietary hardware under contract to IBM. The hardware only became generic when Compaq figured out how to clone the IBM-PC without violating IBM's copyrights. Without that event, Microsoft is little more than an IBM subcontractor, and the industry continues to evolve along the lines it had before. Today a lot of people believe that Microsoft's model was Bill's great stroke of genius, when in reality, it fell into his lap.
Assuming Robert X. Cringley's Triumph of the Nerds documentary is accurate, there are so many little things that could have changed the history of computing. For instance, as I recall Gary Kildall (CP/M) couldn't be bothered so IBM went to Micorsoft who sold them PC-DOS despite only having heard about it yet had never seen it and certainly didn't own the right to it at that point. Without Big Blue's backing it would have been very hard for anyone to take MS seriously in a market full of emerging OSes.
Apple will not let you run OS X on a PC because they would rather have you pay for their overpriced hardware. They should open the restrictions and see how that goes. The lack of driver support for OS X would be an issue as Windows must work with all hardware while OS X only works with select hardware.
I have not run virus or spyware protection on my PC for years without issues. You just have to be cognizant of what you are doing.
I use Adobe Photoshop Elements and Premiere Elements which I find much better then iPhoto, iMovie, iDVD, and Final Cut Express. The package only costs $99. iPhoto is not a photo editor so you need to buy one anyway for any halfway serious photo editing.
Are you stupid????
Could they snatch up Apple? Does simply being worth more than another company mean you are in a financial position to buy it?
LOL. I like your sarcasism LOL. Apple's numbers are crazy.
Let's face reality. Macs have a 4% world market share because they are way too expensive.
No, it's because 96% of the people who use/purchase computers will put up with mediocrity (at best).
I was pretty happy with my Radius box. It's still in a closet somewhere
The Umax has gone to that great domain in the sky. A contemporary to it - my PB1400 is still doing useful work on a daily basis.
What? Someone offers you $1700 to buy a computer, you settle for one that costs $1000?
At least buy a $1700 computer, get the cash from M$, return the computer and get a $1000 model then you can use the $700 for all the extra stuff you will need!
Assuming Robert X. Cringley's Triumph of the Nerds documentary is accurate, there are so many little things that could have changed the history of computing. For instance, as I recall Gary Kildall (CP/M) couldn't be bothered so IBM went to Micorsoft who sold them PC-DOS despite only having heard about it yet had never seen it and certainly didn't own the right to it at that point. Without Big Blue's backing it would have been very hard for anyone to take MS seriously in a market full of emerging OSes.
It's pretty accurate. I also recommend his book Accidental Empires, on which the series was based.
A whole series of serendipitous events made Microsoft's business. The first was IBM's need to build the PC quickly. They wanted it to run 16-bit CP/M but the Digital Research version wasn't done yet, and (as the story goes) IBM visited DR on a day when Kildall was away, and demanded that his wife sign a nondisclosure agreement before they'd even tell her why they were there. When she refused, they went to Microsoft next, although Microsoft had never written an OS. It had to help that the president of IBM John Opel served on the national board of United Way with Bill's mother. Anyway, Microsoft promised to deliver DOS within a year. The only way they were able to meet that deadline was by purchasing a 16-bit CP/M clone from a tiny company called Seattle Computing. Then Compaq destroyed IBM's PC business by reverse-engineering the ROM-BIOS (the only copyrighted component in the IBM-PC) and building the first clones. Microsoft was off to the races.
It's good to be smart, but it's so much better to be lucky.
Seriously I don't know what planet some of you are on.
Some if the posts in here are so juvinile and misinformed. Unbelievable.
Did you PROOFREAD yours?
Or maybe you're joking?
Please be joking...
Not for everyone. I had a Powerbook G3 and the cache went bad after 3 years. I had a Powerbook G4 and the backlight on the LCD went bad after 4 years. Replaced it with a $1299 Macbook. I have a Sony Vaio that lasted 5 years. I replaced it with a $500 Acer. It pretty much does everything I do on the Mac (email, web, word). No support issues on either computer. I can't really say what is a better deal over time until it is all said and done, but it is nice to get a 2nd computer for less than half the price that does everything I want it to.
I had the first generation Macbook and it had it shares of problems. It went back twice for warranty work - bad trackpad, DVD drive scratching the disc. It also had a problem with not shutting down correctly and heating up because the processor was still on. But I got rid of it and got the latest Macbook which is much better. So I would say it is hit or miss with either platform.
I think the ads are hilarious. In my humble opinion, MS should by now realize that it cannot compete with the Mac on quality, reliability and maybe even affordability.
The ads are funny in a really pathetic sense.
Smart buyers DO NOT go into a store and buy what's there. They generally spend time doing RESEARCH... weighing features, pros/cons, reading reviews, etc..
THEN they go to a store and actually buy EXACTLY what they want. or ORDER it and wait.
Only dumbasses, like the actors MS' advertising agency picked for these ads, would go into BestBuy (or equiv) and buy off the shelf.
So the message MS is sending is that the stupid and gullible consumer is OUR customer?
That's great way to polish the egos of your user base.
I guess they never heard of praise before punishment.
I think they should target their ads to show off what Windows can do more effectively than the Mac.
Beyond gaming and some specialized industry-specific apps, give us some examples.
Not for everyone. I had a Powerbook G3 and the cache went bad after 3 years. I had a Powerbook G4 and the backlight on the LCD went bad after 4 years. Replaced it with a $1299 Macbook. I have a Sony Vaio that lasted 5 years. I replaced it with a $500 Acer.
One user's 5 years is different from another's.
If one machine was used for 12 hours a day for 4 years. And the other was used 6 hours a day for 5 years... ?
Do you have an approximate tally of how many HOURS the machines were actively being used?
I had the first generation Macbook and it had it shares of problems. It went back twice for warranty work - bad trackpad, DVD drive scratching the disc. It also had a problem with not shutting down correctly and heating up because the processor was still on. But I got rid of it and got the latest Macbook which is much better. So I would say it is hit or miss with either platform.
The lesson there is to NEVER buy a FIRST model of ANY machine. Always wait for Rev.B or Rev.C where all the unforeseen problems of the first version have been resolved!
I've made THAT mistake a few of times, so now I'll buy the LAST version of a Mac just as the newly designed machine is being released...
I bought the LAST 15" PowerBook G4 when the FIRST MacBook Pro was released.
I bought the last 15" MacBook Pro right after the unibody 15" was released. (I'll also wait for the matte screen option for the 15" MBP uni to appear!!!!!)
I got both for a few hundred bucks less AND hardware-wise they were both solid, tested and reliable. Sure, I want all the latest goodies, but pain and bug free computing is worth a LOT more!
I gave up on buying new GM cars after such issues as rolled-in steel mill scale in the engine hood, causing the paint to flake off a Pontiac in the first year. I bought a new Olds where the driver's door hand grasp trim disintegrated after just a few months of pulling the door shut. Bad design and bad execution earned GM its just reward, with consumers turning away to more dependable and longer-lived products from Honda, Toyota and Nissan. Now the world's largest car company for decades is staring bankruptcy in the face.
So it may be with Microsoft. After 25 years of using products with ever more complex, cumbersome and trouble-prone operating systems from Microsoft, I made the break last year for the reliability and durability of Apple. Others are switching too, while Microsoft is still hell-bent on building operating systems with tailfins. Can the world's leading software business be sowing the seeds of its own destruction? Don't be surprised. GM today. Microsoft tomorrow.
GM's problem (apart from the other oems) is structural costs and the PERCEPTION of an inferior product (Detroit built sucky products in the 70s and 80s and they lost a generation of buyers because of it. There are many reports today that show parity with the other oems, but legacy carries on). So I don't think the analogy holds up. MS's issue is a true product quality issue, imo.
... I have had Mac OS X lock up and have had to do 'Forced Quits' more on the Mac than the PC (running Vista and Windows 7). ...
For someone calling others out about "lies and half truths" this statement is pretty hilarious.
You're either telling some half truths and lies yourself, or you don't know what you're doing.
The Macintosh was never created as the computer for everyone. It was more like the computer for everyone who was willing to pay a premium.
Frankly I like that Macs come with a premium though it cuts both ways and sometimes even I get frustrated but the reality is I like a lot of things that Apple does.
I like that they don't succomb to putting 50 different logos on their computers. I think I can find out that an Apple TV has a HDMI port without having the sticker on the front.
I like that Apple doesn't install much nagware ..in fact I've never had my mac say "your trial period is up ...give us money if you wish to continue" Desktops for sale suck. Even with iPhoto photobooks or printing supplies its there as an options but you aren't harassed about it.
I like that Apple has the balls to move forward.
Getting rid of floppies
Moving to USB
Moving to Displayport
Supporting digital display output (DVI)
How long did it take PC vendors to get rid of parallel ports for chrissake?
Sorry. Apple doesn't ship 17" laptops with GMA graphics. They don't ship 4 pin non-powered Firewire. They don't add card readers to their computers so that you can save $15 on that cheapo Wal Mart reader.
What they do is make elegant computers that are highly functional to the skilled computer user. They made Unix accessible and attractive.
So I don't give damn if a PC user doesn't understand their lineup or doesn't recognize the beautiful and sturdy unibody casing or understand Apple's philosophy. Chances are you're simply not a Apple customer and more better suited to a PC anyways.
This is brilliant. Agree 100%.
People argue back and forth endlessly, but it really comes down to the fact that if you can't see the inherent quality in the Mac and intuitively realise that it's the better computer, then you really are better off with Windows.
iLife is pretty cool but to get all the features you really need the .mac account at $99 per year.
Also, if virus is a win in you book, as well as 50% of these posts, don't you find it ironic that all apple machines have virus protection except fit the models for sale on the floor?????
Ask anyone who works for apple, they will tell you that all networked macs connected to corprate have virus protection, timbuktu and apple can view/spy on any machine being used in Cupertino to apple stores. Sort if like secret service, they believe local police are trustworthy enough to guards it's citizens butas soon as the president arrives, all of them walk around with empty holsters. Take note next time you see footage. Anyway the point is virus protection not needed for consumers, but a must have for all apple machines.
Hmmmmmm
This is just insane nonsense.
Most of these sentences aren't, well .... sentences. The ones that are sentences make about as much sense as the average street mumbler asking for change.
Did you take your medication today?
Look, use the feckin' edit button and try and make your posts understandable.
Seriously I don't know what planet some of you are on.
Vista us not cheap. Yes it's a dud but windows 7 won't be and if it wasn't for the anti trust issues microsoft could snap up any company they wanted to, including Apple, and release hardware but it's a double edge sword. Really some if you have fan boy glasses that are way to thick.
Yeah, anti-trust is the only reason MS doesn't own Apple right now...
Please look at MS two year stock - heck, five - and then look at Apple's 2 or 5 year stock. Then ask Barclay's or anyone else who's a major stockholder if they want to swap Apple's performance for MS's.
Yeah, anti-trust is the only reason MS doesn't own Apple right now...
Please look at MS two year stock - heck, five - and then look at Apple's 2 or 5 year stock. Then ask Barclay's or anyone else who's a major stockholder if they want to swap Apple's performance for MS's.
And look that their marketcaps and revenues. I think some people look at marketshare of the OS and think that it somehow determines the value of a company.
Another way of looking at it is, how many OEM versions of Windows for $400 HPs and Dells need to be sold for MS to equal the revenue Apple gets from one MacBook sale?
lol
Most of the ads feature vague and non-descriptive reasons by PC's are worse. They use "viruses" and "issues" but tell me that you haven't had one 'issue' on a Mac ever? I had Time Machine stop working and killed a backup, 10.5.6 broke the connection between my Mac Pro and my HDMI LCD and a few updates ago my Mail.app stopped working and my 2007 iMac would get into random reboot loops that had to be fixed with an update. (Plus you do remember 10.1 - 10.3 right?)
I love my Mac but I've had just as many 'issues' since OS 9 -> Leopard as I have since Windows 98 -> Vista and both companies are just spreading bunk PR garbage to get you to buy their stuff. It's called 'advertising.'