Apple fires its return salvo as Microsoft issues misleading 5th ad

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  • Reply 161 of 320
    brucepbrucep Posts: 2,823member
    [ edit
  • Reply 162 of 320
    jpellinojpellino Posts: 697member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by guinness View Post


    as I got a Mac, but I've become disappointed in Apple, as they've become so consumer-centric.



    The nerve of some companies. Being all concerned about consumers.
  • Reply 163 of 320
    cjd2112cjd2112 Posts: 83member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by brucep View Post


    i hope you feel better now after your long tirade . need a hug ??, anyway the glossy looks great .



    and apple invests a ton of money for research .



    and dude you got lucky getting away with using a cheap graphic screen for a while . you guys make a ton of money so go buy the correct top o line screen you need

    glossy rocks



    peace



    Epic fail. Nice try.
  • Reply 164 of 320
    quadra 610quadra 610 Posts: 6,757member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by teckstud View Post


    It will never happen- Apple has us in a Catch 22. If you want the OS you have to get the Hardware - no matter how over priced or cheaply made. If the OS was available all over the spectrum, Apple would tank. People would opt for other manufacturer's hardware - hand's down. They (Apple) are afraid to license out the OS. So many of us have to wait between generations of inadequate hardware until Apple comes up to speed.

    Now where is that iPad?



    Apple's hardware is more than adequate for Apple's software.



    You just want to have something for the sake of having it . . . good for boasting, but probably overkill for a lot of things. What, you can't run iMovie fast enough? Final Cut too slow? Gimme a break. GAMES are really the only thing that leverages most of that high end hardware and this isn't a PC or a console. If you're so hooked on the higher-end hardware then build your own PC. Why even bother looking at Apple then? You want to have it both ways, but the result of even better hardware across the board will simply drive up prices. We already have a premium-end item, anyway. The focus is not on specs but the synergy between the hardware and software. Which is something the competition likes to ignore.



    And Apple doesn't license out the OS because it is meant to function as a neat, easy PACKAGE. If Apple were to license out their OS it would turn to shit just like Windows. No control = haphazard user experience. What, trust HP, Acer, and the rest of the junk box makers?? We need OS X/Mac to remain a closed system. The benefits of that over the long term far outweigh any disadvantages.



    You can claim Apple makes em cheap. Claim it as much as you want . . . until the next customer satisfaction report/survey/study in favour (by miles) if Apple hits you in the face. Again. Year after year. Whatever Apple is doing, they simply need to keep doing it.
  • Reply 165 of 320
    physicsphysics Posts: 24member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by christopher126 View Post


    Well said. The only hope for MS is to do what Apple did with OSX's intro and build a completely new OS and include it in only new PC's with strict (MS approved) hardware (think drivers/ram). In other words "divorce" themselves from the Legacy problem ...



    I agree that MS needs to address the problem of its geriatric OS. NT, as designed by David Cutler of DEC, was a good modern OS that was stable and was a vast improvement over Win95. It seemed the every version after NT 3.51 got progressively more corrupted and bloated, with Win2000 Pro(NT 5.0) as the last decent version.



    Replacing the OS from scratch with a modern 64-bit clean system that is inherently multi-processor friendly would be the best solution for long-term viability, but I don't know if MS can realistically do that. With such a large market share to support, I don't know if MS can divorce itself from its problem of legacy support. Apple had such a small market share in the early 2000s that it was not so difficult to bite the bullet and push through the Unix based OS on the Intel hardware that it knew would be the future of the company.



    Windows is such a creaking behemoth that I wonder if the engineers at MS really even understand what is going on with their OS. It seems to me that MS is paying the price for neglecting to design and implement a modern-day successor to the NT system, and will continue to layer more bloated code over the mess that currently exists in order to delay having to deal with the issue in a forthright way. Perhaps the best solution for MS would be to open up the NT codebase and let Windows become public domain. Maybe MS could focus on good simple Apps that wouldn't be so costly to maintain. Imagine the revenue stream that MS requires just to keep all of those software engineers working to keep their software products functioning.
  • Reply 166 of 320
    jerseymacjerseymac Posts: 408member
    I was just at Best Buy and saw three people leaving with Vista laptops. People believe these lies.



    As usual there was no employee at the Apple section. And the computers had no content so you couldn't play with the iLife apps. People come over, take a peek, look at the price and run away.
  • Reply 167 of 320
    tbelltbell Posts: 3,146member
    You do understand that the double negative in the sentence below means essentially "whoever thinks Macs are more expensive is plain stupid." Is that what you are trying to say?



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by teckstud View Post


    Whoever doesn't think Macs aren't more expensive is just plain stupid.



  • Reply 168 of 320
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Jerseymac View Post


    I was just at Best Buy and saw three people leaving with Vista laptops. People believe these lies.



    As usual there was no employee at the Apple section. And the computers had no content so you couldn't play with the iLife apps. People come over, take a peek, look at the price and run away.



    They do seem to drop the ball on their Mac kiosks. I wonder if Apple is aware of this happening. The Apple Stores have done brilliantly to let people use Macs in any way they wanted, even on the internet and ask questions about them to Apple staff. That, plus the lessening of fear from knowing they can run Windows on them, has done more to help boost Mac sales than the "iPod halo", IMO, but these BestBuy kiosks seem to have an opposite effect on Mac sales. I've heard nothing good about them from others.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by TBell View Post


    You do understand that the double negative in the sentence below means essentially "whoever thinks Macs are more expensive is plain stupid." Is that what you are trying to say?



    Who would have thought that Teckstud's could find a way to make his posts even more negative than they already were.
  • Reply 169 of 320
    cjd2112cjd2112 Posts: 83member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post


    Apple's hardware is more than adequate for Apple's software.



    You just want to have something for the sake of having it . . . good for boasting, but probably overkill for a lot of things. What, you can't run iMovie fast enough? Final Cut too slow? Gimme a break. GAMES are really the only thing that leverages most of that high end hardware and this isn't a PC or a console. If you're so hooked on the higher-end hardware then build your own PC. Why even bother looking at Apple then? You want to have it both ways, but the result of even better hardware across the board will simply drive up prices. We already have a premium-end item, anyway. The focus is not on specs but the synergy between the hardware and software. Which is something the competition likes to ignore.



    And Apple doesn't license out the OS because it is meant to function as a neat, easy PACKAGE. If Apple were to license out their OS it would turn to shit just like Windows. No control = haphazard user experience. What, trust HP, Acer, and the rest of the junk box makers?? We need OS X/Mac to remain a closed system. The benefits of that over the long term far outweigh any disadvantages.



    You can claim Apple makes em cheap. Claim it as much as you want . . . until the next customer satisfaction report/survey/study in favour (by miles) if Apple hits you in the face. Again. Year after year. Whatever Apple is doing, they simply need to keep doing it.



    Very well stated and on point. This should be the very first post.
  • Reply 170 of 320
    cjd2112cjd2112 Posts: 83member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Jerseymac View Post


    I was just at Best Buy and saw three people leaving with Vista laptops. People believe these lies.



    As usual there was no employee at the Apple section. And the computers had no content so you couldn't play with the iLife apps. People come over, take a peek, look at the price and run away.



    I honestly believe Apple should pull out of BestBuy. The Apple "section" at BestBuy is obviously neglected, with little to no hardware to demonstrate. It simply looks "sad", and that alone sends a negative impression to the buyer (little hardware, not much software, very little applications running on a small plethora of hardware). The "sales associate's" and "Geek Squad" are mainly versed in Windows OS environments (as I work in It as part of my business, years ago I checked out BestBuy as one of my "competitors" and pretended to be a Mac user with system troubles. I asked a few "Geek Squad Agents" questions about Mac - and Windows - they were nothing more than intermediate Windows associates). BestBuy seems more interested in selling their Windows based systems, I wonder if there is more incentive.



    Apple should follow their own hardware/software strategy by tightly controlling their sales in Apple stores only. For those who do not live within an Apple store, buy online.
  • Reply 171 of 320
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by CJD2112 View Post


    I honestly believe Apple should pull out of BestBuy. The Apple "section" at BestBuy is obviously neglected, with little to no hardware to demonstrate. It simply looks "sad", and that alone sends a negative impression to the buyer (little hardware, not much software, very little applications running on a small plethora of hardware). The "sales associate's" and "Geek Squad" are mainly versed in Windows OS environments (as I work in It as part of my business, years ago I checked out BestBuy as one of my "competitors" and pretended to be a Mac user with system troubles. I asked a few "Geek Squad Agents" questions about Mac - and Windows - they were nothing more than intermediate Windows associates). BestBuy seems more interested in selling their Windows based systems, I wonder if there is more incentive.



    Apple should follow their own hardware/software strategy by tightly controlling their sales in Apple stores only. For those who do not live within an Apple store, buy online.



    Good point about controlling the sales aspect. In addition to the superior hardware/software, there is strong brand equity. I think these locations cheapen the image.
  • Reply 172 of 320
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by CJD2112 View Post


    I honestly believe Apple should pull out of BestBuy. The Apple "section" at BestBuy is obviously neglected, with little to no hardware to demonstrate. It simply looks "sad", and that alone sends a negative impression to the buyer (little hardware, not much software, very little applications running on a small plethora of hardware). Apple should follow their own hardware/software strategy by tightly controlling their sales in Apple stores only. For those who do not live within an Apple store, buy online.



    I agree. This is round 2 and it's back to the sad state it used to be. Often they are selling out of date HW, too.



    IMO, If they were to make it work in a "satellite store" way where a full size Apple Store is not financially viable, they need to do it less Best Buys where 2 or 4 full time Apple certified employees can run the kiosk. They don't have to start when Best Buy opens or stay as late as they are open, but when they are there the Macs need to be up to date with the typical build, just like the Apple Stores, and with an internet connection that allows them to truly be experienced.



    These employees would wear the typical Apple garb and would help the customers understand the value of owning a Mac. When not helping customers they would maintain the kiosk area, the machines and the OS installation so they are pristine, When there is no one available this area would be closed off to the rest of the store but Macs could still be pulled from the back by BestBuy employees.



    But I have no idea of that idea is actually profitable. How many Macs would need to be sold to make such an operation viable?
  • Reply 173 of 320
    We've seen enough of those Studio XPS 13s returned in the last couple weeks with problems, our store actually considered pulling them off the shelves. I've had one customer return 4 of them all with the same issues.
  • Reply 174 of 320
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by roehlstation View Post


    We've seen enough of those Studio XPS 13s returned in the last couple weeks with problems, our store actually considered pulling them off the shelves. I've had one customer return 4 of them all with the same issues.



    What was the issue?
  • Reply 175 of 320
    foxyfoxy Posts: 29member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Jerseymac View Post


    I was just at Best Buy and saw three people leaving with Vista laptops. People believe these lies.



    As usual there was no employee at the Apple section. And the computers had no content so you couldn't play with the iLife apps. People come over, take a peek, look at the price and run away.



    Windows market share is, what, 90%? Do you think 3 Vista laptops being sold means that their ads are working and that more Windows laptops are being sold? Do you think those 3 people would have bought macs if it wasn't for these ads?



    People who buy macs know very well what they cost and what PCs cost but they buy macs anyway. Even if this ad campaign is very efective at most it will keep people from switching, but the people who like macs will still buy macs.



    For many, that would have happened whether or not there had been any ads at all. Some people are just browsing.
  • Reply 176 of 320
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by lightstriker View Post


    OMG, this new Lauren is so hot. But all you freaking nerds keep spinning the Win/OSX broken record.



    yeah guys. why aren't we talking about how hot she is? what is this a computer forum?
  • Reply 177 of 320
    dr millmossdr millmoss Posts: 5,403member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Foxy View Post


    Windows market share is, what, 90%? Do you think 3 Vista laptops being sold means that their ads are working and that more Windows laptops are being sold? Do you think those 3 people would have bought macs if it wasn't for these ads?



    You can't beat a good anecdote.



    Quote:

    People who buy macs know very well what they cost and what PCs cost but they buy macs anyway. Even if this ad campaign is very efective at most it will keep people from switching, but the people who like macs will still buy macs.



    Microsoft's entire ad campaign seems very short-sighted to me. It's like McDonald's offering 99¢ hamburgers. Sure, more people will be attracted to 99¢ hamburgers in a recession, when they feel a need to watch every dollar, but it's not because they really prefer to eat cheap hamburgers. When the crunch is over and people start feeling better about their economic circumstances, they'll want something better. How is Microsoft's "ours are cheaper!" campaign going to look in 6-12 months, when people starting thinking more about what they really want?
  • Reply 178 of 320
    foo2foo2 Posts: 1,077member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by physics View Post


    Dell, at least, used to offer machines that although not of the highest quality were a good value for the performance and reliability versus the cost, and their return/replacement policy was excellent.



    Dell is like a box of chocolates: you never know what you're gonna get. This matters because you never know what the quality will be or even if the same set of drivers will work across multiple systems.



    In the case of the Studio XPS 13, the cheap model for sale at Best Buy lacks a decent display panel and comes with Vista Home Premium instead of Mac OS X "Ultimate" (the only Mac OS X version). If compared to the low-end unibody MacBook, the build quality is definitely inferior and the Dell lacks an LED-backlit panel. To bring the Dell into parity with the low-end unibody MacBook, the price nearly equals it. Then consider students get a 5-10% Apple discount. Finally, consider the user experience FTW!
  • Reply 179 of 320
    p lp l Posts: 64member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Kibitzer View Post


    I gave up on buying new GM cars after such issues as rolled-in steel mill scale in the engine hood, causing the paint to flake off a Pontiac in the first year. I bought a new Olds where the driver's door hand grasp trim disintegrated after just a few months of pulling the door shut. Bad design and bad execution earned GM its just reward, with consumers turning away to more dependable and longer-lived products from Honda, Toyota and Nissan. Now the world's largest car company for decades is staring bankruptcy in the face.



    So it may be with Microsoft. After 25 years of using products with ever more complex, cumbersome and trouble-prone operating systems from Microsoft, I made the break last year for the reliability and durability of Apple. Others are switching too, while Microsoft is still hell-bent on building operating systems with tailfins. Can the world's leading software business be sowing the seeds of its own destruction? Don't be surprised. GM today. Microsoft tomorrow.



    Nice analogy. Could be, but remember there's a new player around: Bailout.
  • Reply 180 of 320
    sipadansipadan Posts: 107member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by halfyearsun View Post


    yeah guys. why aren't we talking about how hot she is? what is this a computer forum?



    Who cares what she buys... She'll be hot regardless
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