I don't think iPhone supporters have problems with multi-tasking directly. Many of us have said we want it. We just don't want it at the expense of battery life as the Pre has proven.
I thought there are other significant variables, as many variables as possible need to be isolated. When third party software is currently limited to AJAX and the competing phones offer native execution, I think that is a major variable.
While there are a many who can't type better on the narrow keyboards, they are many.
Oddly, I can type better on the narrow keyboard, despite having large hands (I can palm a basketball with ease). Don't know why; it just feels more natural.
Japanese input is also far easier on the narrow keyboard and can be done single-handed. My wife (who is Japanese) does prefer the landscape keyboard for English).
It seems that people who are used to hard qwerty keyboards from previous phones, and did well with them, like hard keyboards better than virtual ones.
But people who never had a smartphone with a hard qwerty keyboard find a virtual one about as good, or better.
Perhaps. People have speculated about that, but my feel for the situation is different. It's about the tradeoffs. By going soft QWERTY, it allows for bigger screens in thinner form factors, makes touch-screen UIs easier to use, and applications more rich with much larger design spaces. I think many of us feel that this is a trade that most people would buy into.
I'm sure there is a population out that, by nature, is not willing to give up on the feel of using a hard thumb board, but I hardly think it is a significant fraction. Maybe 10% aren't willing to buy into the benefits versus losing a hardware keyboard.
I do think that messaging (email, IM, SMS, Twitter) is a significant enough usage that it is the predominant usage of a handheld device and therefore a hard keyboard is a better option. And this is likely a bigger population than the "hard keyboard or die" folks. But this only has loose correlation to people's preference of hard v soft keyboards. Once you start adding web-browsing, games and applications and such to the mix, the slate starts to become better.
Quote:
The idea was always to get the keyboard as wide as possible.
The original Blackberry's all had wide landscape formats, because they were first and foremost typing machines. The more "phone-like" they got, the narrower the keyboards got. Harder to type on, but more consumer friendly in shape.
While there are a few who can type better on the narrow keyboards, they are few.
The Pre has been criticized for going this way.
Well, there are limits on how wide you want to get it. I think 2.4 to 2.8 inches wide is the optimal width. The wider it gets beyond a the optimum range, users will become less as efficient as thumb travel gets too far.
Perhaps. People have speculated about that, but my feel for the situation is different. It's about the tradeoffs. By going soft QWERTY, it allows for bigger screens in thinner form factors, makes touch-screen UIs easier to use, and applications more rich with much larger design spaces. I think many of us feel that this is a trade that most people would buy into.
I'm sure there is a population out that, by nature, is not willing to give up on the feel of using a hard thumb board, but I hardly think it is a significant fraction. Maybe 10% aren't willing to buy into the benefits versus losing a hardware keyboard.
I do think that messaging (email, IM, SMS, Twitter) is a significant enough usage that it is the predominant usage of a handheld device and therefore a hard keyboard is a better option. And this is likely a bigger population than the "hard keyboard or die" folks. But this only has loose correlation to people's preference of hard v soft keyboards. Once you start adding web-browsing, games and applications and such to the mix, the slate starts to become better.
I know that some folks prefer a hard keyboard, but that doesn't mean that they would type better on it, just that they think they would. Unfortunately, that often means that the placebo effect comes into play. The self fulfilling prophesy.
It's also a matter of comfort. you're familiar with it, so it seems easier.
I find the vertical keyboards to be more difficult. I never liked the one on my Treo 700p. The one on the HTC 6700 , which was horizontal, seemed much better, though it was a bad keyboard in itself, and was a Windows phone, which killed it for me.
Quote:
Well, there are limits on how wide you want to get it. I think 2.4 to 2.8 inches wide is the optimal width. The wider it gets beyond a the optimum range, users will become less as efficient as thumb travel gets too far.
Yes, of course. There is an idea of some ideal spacing. I didn't mean more than that, though most are narrower than that.
I supposed I simplified it too much. Yes the iPhone screen can be scratched if you actually put some effort forth. When the iPhone first came out there was a Youtube video of a guy who put it in a bag with keys and jewelry and shook it up. The back of the phone was scratched to hell, but the screen had nothing.
Anecdotes of fool-proof durability prove nothing. It should be obvious by now that there are contradictory anecdotes.
Perhaps you want to qualify even further in order to not look too foolish?
Some examples if you're still not convinced...
When mountain biking I put my iPhone in a sock and then in a built-in pouch inside the small pocket of my camel pack. Sounds like reasonable precautions right? Well it still gets scratched anyway. Some people spend time outdoors where there happens to be dirt.
Or for instance: I am restoring an old home in my spare time. This includes demolition, plastering, landscaping, roofing, etc. I'm not going to leave the iPhone elsewhere since the whole purpose of having a mobile phone is to have it on your person. Well eventually tiny debris, weather asphault shingle grit or crumbling plaster, finds its way into your pocket. And yes, that will scratch an iPhone.
The above scenarios are normal usage that result in scratches. Numerous of other scenarios have been reported if one is willing enough to open their ears and listen.
And please don't come back with a list of how to prevent scratches. People are well aware of how to prevent scratches. Those measures just aren't worth it for people who need to live lives as described above. Not everyone has an office job and then goes home to sit on the couch all night. When the phone accompanies people on the vast array of possible activities in life, many of those activities will result in scratched screens.
Note that I'm not saying the iPhone is fragile nor that there is something wrong with the iPhone. I'm just rejecting outright your somewhat pretentious claim that scratched screens are from misuse.
Anecdotes of fool-proof durability prove nothing. It should be obvious by now that there are contradictory anecdotes.
Perhaps you want to qualify even further in order to not look too foolish?
Some examples if you're still not convinced...
When mountain biking I put my iPhone in a sock and then in a built-in pouch inside the small pocket of my camel pack. Sounds like reasonable precautions right? Well it still gets scratched anyway. Some people spend time outdoors where there happens to be dirt.
Or for instance: I am restoring an old home in my spare time. This includes demolition, plastering, landscaping, roofing, etc. I'm not going to leave the iPhone elsewhere since the whole purpose of having a mobile phone is to have it on your person. Well eventually tiny debris, weather asphault shingle grit or crumbling plaster, finds its way into your pocket. And yes, that will scratch an iPhone.
The above scenarios are normal usage that result in scratches. Numerous of other scenarios have been reported if one is willing enough to open their ears and listen.
And please don't come back with a list of how to prevent scratches. People are well aware of how to prevent scratches. Those measures just aren't worth it for people who need to live lives as described above. Not everyone has an office job and then goes home to sit on the couch all night. When the phone accompanies people on the vast array of possible activities in life, many of those activities will result in scratched screens.
Note that I'm not saying the iPhone is fragile nor that there is something wrong with the iPhone. I'm just rejecting outright your somewhat pretentious claim that scratched screens are from misuse.
That's interesting because I have shops at home. One is a machine shop with all the attendant metal flying around, grinding operations, sanding etc. I keep my phone on my belt in an almost completely open at the top holster. Never get scratches from anything, even though I often have to blow an amalgam of dust off the screen, consisting, of who knows what.
Are you honestly trying to say that iPhones don't scratch? Why else all this rebuttal nonsense, as if I had said something false. People can and do scratch their iphone screens. It isn't unheard of or incredibly rare.
I humorously mentioned that I'd be willing to trade my iPhone for TenoBell's unscratched iPhone because he had just claimed that iPhone screens couldn't be scratched. But apparently it wasn't acceptable for someone to point out that scratching was indeed possible. Instead, the observable fact, that iPhone screens can and do scratch, was rebutted for some strange reason.
Are we in bizarro world here? What's going on?
iPhone screens are acceptably scratch resistant but they do scratch. Why is there the need to argue about this?
Are you honestly trying to say that iPhones don't scratch? Why else all this rebuttal nonsense, as if I had said something false. People can and do scratch their iphone screens. It isn't unheard of or incredibly rare.
I humorously mentioned that I'd be willing to trade my iPhone for TenoBell's unscratched iPhone but he had just claimed that iPhone screens couldn't be scratched. But apparently it wasn't acceptable for someone to point out that scratching was indeed possible. Instead, the observable fact, that iPhone screens can and do scratch, was rebutted for some strange reason.
Are we in bizarro world here? What's going on?
iPhone screens are acceptably scratch resistant but they do scratch. Why is there the need to argue about this?
Of course they scratch. But you seem to be having worse luck than most. I have friends who also go mountain biking with their phones, and theirs haven't scratched.
I do have a friend who scratched his, but he dropped it in a parking lot, and it skidded, face down (no skin case) on the asphalt.
I know people who keep them in their pockets, pocketbooks, attache cases, backpacks and other places, and they haven't scratched.
Actually, they are all pretty amazed that they haven't scratched.
Of course they scratch. But you seem to be having worse luck than most. I have friends who also go mountain biking with their phones, and theirs haven't scratched.
I do have a friend who scratched his, but he dropped it in a parking lot, and it skidded, face down (no skin case) on the asphalt.
I know people who keep them in their pockets, pocketbooks, attache cases, backpacks and other places, and they haven't scratched.
Actually, they are all pretty amazed that they haven't scratched.
No they aren't all amazed that their iphones haven't scratched. You just said that one of your friends scratched his by dropping it.
No they aren't all amazed that their iphones haven't scratched. You just said that one of your friends scratched his by dropping it.
Obviously, I meant the ones that haven't had their phones scratched. But even he wasn't exactly annoyed at anything other than himself. That's pretty extreme.
Obviously, I meant the ones that haven't had their phones scratched. But even he wasn't exactly annoyed at anything other than himself. That's pretty extreme.
Don't get me wrong, the scratch resistance is definitely excellent. The next best thing might be diamond coating.
But you must admit that dropping a mobile phone isn't uncomon. Plenty of people scratch their phones (of any kind) that way. That's all i'm pointing out, which is why the rebuttals are baffling.
Don't get me wrong, the scratch resistance is definitely excellent. The next best thing might be diamond coating.
well, we now know that diamond isn't the hardest natural mineral. There are two that are harder.
But you must admit that dropping a mobile phone isn't uncomon. Plenty of people scratch their phones (of any kind) that way. That's all i'm pointing out, which is why the rebuttals are baffling.
Sure, there's always the risk when you drop one. That's why we bought the Incase skins. It gives a bit of a lip around the screen, thus protecting it from most contact. I'm not oblivious.
But these are very hard to scratch. I know dozens of people with these things. I only know that one person who has scratched his, and you have to admit, skidding along ten feet of asphalt is unusually cruel.
If I'd known you would parse my words this much I would have added more qualifiers. It was not my intent to say that iPhone screens are 100% scratch proof in every and all circumstance.
I simply meant it's extremely unlikely the iPhone will scratch under normal use and abuse.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dfiler
Are we in bizarro world here? What's going on?
iPhone screens are acceptably scratch resistant but they do scratch. Why is there the need to argue about this?
If I'd known you would parse my words this much I would have added more qualifiers. It was not my intent to say that iPhone screens are 100% scratch proof in every and all circumstance.
I simply meant it's extremely unlikely the iPhone will scratch under normal use and abuse.
Dont? forget to qualify exactly what normal use and abuse is.
Good idea... In some people's world, normal use and abuse involves occasional dropping of their phone on concrete.
And in that normal world of abuse, people buy skin cases to put them in to protect them against that small chance of getting damaged. These cases make them much less likely to slip out of the hand.
And in that normal world of abuse, people buy skin cases to put them in to protect them against that small chance of getting damaged. These cases make them much less likely to slip out of the hand.
Exactly. Some people buy skins because otherwise their screen might scratch.
Edit: Hmmm, I wonder if it'll ever be possible for someone to say that iPhone screens can scratch without getting a rebuttal.
Exactly. Some people buy skins because otherwise their screen might scratch.
Edit: Hmmm, I wonder if it'll ever be possible for someone to say that iPhone screens can scratch without getting a rebuttal.
I think the argument is that it's insiderably lessikely, not that it's possible or that people buy covers because they think their iPhone will scratch like their Curve.
Comments
I don't think iPhone supporters have problems with multi-tasking directly. Many of us have said we want it. We just don't want it at the expense of battery life as the Pre has proven.
I thought there are other significant variables, as many variables as possible need to be isolated. When third party software is currently limited to AJAX and the competing phones offer native execution, I think that is a major variable.
While there are a many who can't type better on the narrow keyboards, they are many.
Oddly, I can type better on the narrow keyboard, despite having large hands (I can palm a basketball with ease). Don't know why; it just feels more natural.
Japanese input is also far easier on the narrow keyboard and can be done single-handed. My wife (who is Japanese) does prefer the landscape keyboard for English).
It seems that people who are used to hard qwerty keyboards from previous phones, and did well with them, like hard keyboards better than virtual ones.
But people who never had a smartphone with a hard qwerty keyboard find a virtual one about as good, or better.
Perhaps. People have speculated about that, but my feel for the situation is different. It's about the tradeoffs. By going soft QWERTY, it allows for bigger screens in thinner form factors, makes touch-screen UIs easier to use, and applications more rich with much larger design spaces. I think many of us feel that this is a trade that most people would buy into.
I'm sure there is a population out that, by nature, is not willing to give up on the feel of using a hard thumb board, but I hardly think it is a significant fraction. Maybe 10% aren't willing to buy into the benefits versus losing a hardware keyboard.
I do think that messaging (email, IM, SMS, Twitter) is a significant enough usage that it is the predominant usage of a handheld device and therefore a hard keyboard is a better option. And this is likely a bigger population than the "hard keyboard or die" folks. But this only has loose correlation to people's preference of hard v soft keyboards. Once you start adding web-browsing, games and applications and such to the mix, the slate starts to become better.
The idea was always to get the keyboard as wide as possible.
The original Blackberry's all had wide landscape formats, because they were first and foremost typing machines. The more "phone-like" they got, the narrower the keyboards got. Harder to type on, but more consumer friendly in shape.
While there are a few who can type better on the narrow keyboards, they are few.
The Pre has been criticized for going this way.
Well, there are limits on how wide you want to get it. I think 2.4 to 2.8 inches wide is the optimal width. The wider it gets beyond a the optimum range, users will become less as efficient as thumb travel gets too far.
Perhaps. People have speculated about that, but my feel for the situation is different. It's about the tradeoffs. By going soft QWERTY, it allows for bigger screens in thinner form factors, makes touch-screen UIs easier to use, and applications more rich with much larger design spaces. I think many of us feel that this is a trade that most people would buy into.
I'm sure there is a population out that, by nature, is not willing to give up on the feel of using a hard thumb board, but I hardly think it is a significant fraction. Maybe 10% aren't willing to buy into the benefits versus losing a hardware keyboard.
I do think that messaging (email, IM, SMS, Twitter) is a significant enough usage that it is the predominant usage of a handheld device and therefore a hard keyboard is a better option. And this is likely a bigger population than the "hard keyboard or die" folks. But this only has loose correlation to people's preference of hard v soft keyboards. Once you start adding web-browsing, games and applications and such to the mix, the slate starts to become better.
I know that some folks prefer a hard keyboard, but that doesn't mean that they would type better on it, just that they think they would. Unfortunately, that often means that the placebo effect comes into play. The self fulfilling prophesy.
It's also a matter of comfort. you're familiar with it, so it seems easier.
I find the vertical keyboards to be more difficult. I never liked the one on my Treo 700p. The one on the HTC 6700 , which was horizontal, seemed much better, though it was a bad keyboard in itself, and was a Windows phone, which killed it for me.
Well, there are limits on how wide you want to get it. I think 2.4 to 2.8 inches wide is the optimal width. The wider it gets beyond a the optimum range, users will become less as efficient as thumb travel gets too far.
Yes, of course. There is an idea of some ideal spacing. I didn't mean more than that, though most are narrower than that.
I supposed I simplified it too much. Yes the iPhone screen can be scratched if you actually put some effort forth. When the iPhone first came out there was a Youtube video of a guy who put it in a bag with keys and jewelry and shook it up. The back of the phone was scratched to hell, but the screen had nothing.
Anecdotes of fool-proof durability prove nothing. It should be obvious by now that there are contradictory anecdotes.
Perhaps you want to qualify even further in order to not look too foolish?
Some examples if you're still not convinced...
When mountain biking I put my iPhone in a sock and then in a built-in pouch inside the small pocket of my camel pack. Sounds like reasonable precautions right? Well it still gets scratched anyway. Some people spend time outdoors where there happens to be dirt.
Or for instance: I am restoring an old home in my spare time. This includes demolition, plastering, landscaping, roofing, etc. I'm not going to leave the iPhone elsewhere since the whole purpose of having a mobile phone is to have it on your person. Well eventually tiny debris, weather asphault shingle grit or crumbling plaster, finds its way into your pocket. And yes, that will scratch an iPhone.
The above scenarios are normal usage that result in scratches. Numerous of other scenarios have been reported if one is willing enough to open their ears and listen.
And please don't come back with a list of how to prevent scratches. People are well aware of how to prevent scratches. Those measures just aren't worth it for people who need to live lives as described above. Not everyone has an office job and then goes home to sit on the couch all night. When the phone accompanies people on the vast array of possible activities in life, many of those activities will result in scratched screens.
Note that I'm not saying the iPhone is fragile nor that there is something wrong with the iPhone. I'm just rejecting outright your somewhat pretentious claim that scratched screens are from misuse.
Anecdotes of fool-proof durability prove nothing. It should be obvious by now that there are contradictory anecdotes.
Its not annecdotal when you have video.
iPhone scratch test
Perhaps you want to qualify even further in order to not look too foolish?
Alright, I'll look foolish as I enjoy my unscratched screen.
Anecdotes of fool-proof durability prove nothing. It should be obvious by now that there are contradictory anecdotes.
Perhaps you want to qualify even further in order to not look too foolish?
Some examples if you're still not convinced...
When mountain biking I put my iPhone in a sock and then in a built-in pouch inside the small pocket of my camel pack. Sounds like reasonable precautions right? Well it still gets scratched anyway. Some people spend time outdoors where there happens to be dirt.
Or for instance: I am restoring an old home in my spare time. This includes demolition, plastering, landscaping, roofing, etc. I'm not going to leave the iPhone elsewhere since the whole purpose of having a mobile phone is to have it on your person. Well eventually tiny debris, weather asphault shingle grit or crumbling plaster, finds its way into your pocket. And yes, that will scratch an iPhone.
The above scenarios are normal usage that result in scratches. Numerous of other scenarios have been reported if one is willing enough to open their ears and listen.
And please don't come back with a list of how to prevent scratches. People are well aware of how to prevent scratches. Those measures just aren't worth it for people who need to live lives as described above. Not everyone has an office job and then goes home to sit on the couch all night. When the phone accompanies people on the vast array of possible activities in life, many of those activities will result in scratched screens.
Note that I'm not saying the iPhone is fragile nor that there is something wrong with the iPhone. I'm just rejecting outright your somewhat pretentious claim that scratched screens are from misuse.
That's interesting because I have shops at home. One is a machine shop with all the attendant metal flying around, grinding operations, sanding etc. I keep my phone on my belt in an almost completely open at the top holster. Never get scratches from anything, even though I often have to blow an amalgam of dust off the screen, consisting, of who knows what.
Some people are just unlucky.
I humorously mentioned that I'd be willing to trade my iPhone for TenoBell's unscratched iPhone because he had just claimed that iPhone screens couldn't be scratched. But apparently it wasn't acceptable for someone to point out that scratching was indeed possible. Instead, the observable fact, that iPhone screens can and do scratch, was rebutted for some strange reason.
Are we in bizarro world here? What's going on?
iPhone screens are acceptably scratch resistant but they do scratch. Why is there the need to argue about this?
Are you honestly trying to say that iPhones don't scratch? Why else all this rebuttal nonsense, as if I had said something false. People can and do scratch their iphone screens. It isn't unheard of or incredibly rare.
I humorously mentioned that I'd be willing to trade my iPhone for TenoBell's unscratched iPhone but he had just claimed that iPhone screens couldn't be scratched. But apparently it wasn't acceptable for someone to point out that scratching was indeed possible. Instead, the observable fact, that iPhone screens can and do scratch, was rebutted for some strange reason.
Are we in bizarro world here? What's going on?
iPhone screens are acceptably scratch resistant but they do scratch. Why is there the need to argue about this?
Of course they scratch. But you seem to be having worse luck than most. I have friends who also go mountain biking with their phones, and theirs haven't scratched.
I do have a friend who scratched his, but he dropped it in a parking lot, and it skidded, face down (no skin case) on the asphalt.
I know people who keep them in their pockets, pocketbooks, attache cases, backpacks and other places, and they haven't scratched.
Actually, they are all pretty amazed that they haven't scratched.
Of course they scratch. But you seem to be having worse luck than most. I have friends who also go mountain biking with their phones, and theirs haven't scratched.
I do have a friend who scratched his, but he dropped it in a parking lot, and it skidded, face down (no skin case) on the asphalt.
I know people who keep them in their pockets, pocketbooks, attache cases, backpacks and other places, and they haven't scratched.
Actually, they are all pretty amazed that they haven't scratched.
No they aren't all amazed that their iphones haven't scratched. You just said that one of your friends scratched his by dropping it.
No they aren't all amazed that their iphones haven't scratched. You just said that one of your friends scratched his by dropping it.
Obviously, I meant the ones that haven't had their phones scratched. But even he wasn't exactly annoyed at anything other than himself. That's pretty extreme.
Obviously, I meant the ones that haven't had their phones scratched. But even he wasn't exactly annoyed at anything other than himself. That's pretty extreme.
Don't get me wrong, the scratch resistance is definitely excellent. The next best thing might be diamond coating.
But you must admit that dropping a mobile phone isn't uncomon. Plenty of people scratch their phones (of any kind) that way. That's all i'm pointing out, which is why the rebuttals are baffling.
Don't get me wrong, the scratch resistance is definitely excellent. The next best thing might be diamond coating.
well, we now know that diamond isn't the hardest natural mineral. There are two that are harder.
But you must admit that dropping a mobile phone isn't uncomon. Plenty of people scratch their phones (of any kind) that way. That's all i'm pointing out, which is why the rebuttals are baffling.
Sure, there's always the risk when you drop one. That's why we bought the Incase skins. It gives a bit of a lip around the screen, thus protecting it from most contact. I'm not oblivious.
But these are very hard to scratch. I know dozens of people with these things. I only know that one person who has scratched his, and you have to admit, skidding along ten feet of asphalt is unusually cruel.
I simply meant it's extremely unlikely the iPhone will scratch under normal use and abuse.
Are we in bizarro world here? What's going on?
iPhone screens are acceptably scratch resistant but they do scratch. Why is there the need to argue about this?
If I'd known you would parse my words this much I would have added more qualifiers. It was not my intent to say that iPhone screens are 100% scratch proof in every and all circumstance.
I simply meant it's extremely unlikely the iPhone will scratch under normal use and abuse.
Dont? forget to qualify exactly what normal use and abuse is.
Dont? forget to qualify exactly what normal use and abuse is.
Good idea... In some people's world, normal use and abuse involves occasional dropping of their phone on concrete.
Good idea... In some people's world, normal use and abuse involves occasional dropping of their phone on concrete.
And in that normal world of abuse, people buy skin cases to put them in to protect them against that small chance of getting damaged. These cases make them much less likely to slip out of the hand.
Good idea... In some people's world, normal use and abuse involves occasional dropping of their phone on concrete.
While I wouldn't call that acceptable for making a warranty claim, it is certainly the norm for my portable devices.
And in that normal world of abuse, people buy skin cases to put them in to protect them against that small chance of getting damaged. These cases make them much less likely to slip out of the hand.
Exactly. Some people buy skins because otherwise their screen might scratch.
Edit: Hmmm, I wonder if it'll ever be possible for someone to say that iPhone screens can scratch without getting a rebuttal.
Exactly. Some people buy skins because otherwise their screen might scratch.
Edit: Hmmm, I wonder if it'll ever be possible for someone to say that iPhone screens can scratch without getting a rebuttal.
I think the argument is that it's insiderably lessikely, not that it's possible or that people buy covers because they think their iPhone will scratch like their Curve.
Mohs Hardness scale...