I am amazed at all the people who are complaining about the past Apple keyboards. Not that people don't like them but the reasons why they don't like them. My biggest complaint is the number pad to the right. It forces me to put my mouse way to the right beyond what is ergonomically correct. Either that or I have to shift the center of keyboard way to the left.
Have you never tried using the mouse with your left hand? (Stop sniggering at the back!) When I got my first computer I had a narrow desk with draws underneath on the right, and the only way I could get the pizza-box/monitor/keyboard set up was to have the mouse on the left. So the first time I ever used a mouse was with my left hand, and although I am quite pathetically uni-dextrous with everything else I have no problems with the mouse on the sinsiter side. Although I currently have a nice whizzy desk with pull out ledge for the keyboard/mouse, my ambidexterity in this regard is a useful anti-RSI measure as I can easily swap from side to side.
The only drawback is finding a suitable ambidextrous mouse, forcing me to have a standard *cough* MS *cough* five buttoner.
For what it's worth, the current keyboards are actually quite nice. At work I'm still using the black and green model from a Powermac G3. Now THOSE were horrible. The command key squeaks every time I press it, and almost every key sticks. It's bad.
Improvments are always great, and I'd love a slimline keyboard to use with my MBP, but let's not always complain about everything.
I happen to like the current "mushy" model, as you put it. I find it very comfortable. I didn't find the MacBook keyboard to be as comfortable, and I didn't like the tactile feedback. Too "clicky" for my taste. But hey, the majority rules, and I'm clearly not in the majority.
GTSC
Well, I suppose it good that a few like the current models.
But, it's interesting that the very thing that makes good keyboards, and the MB one as well, the clicky feel, is what you don't like.
So, you go against the experts in the field about this. That's ok, but it isn't considered to be condusive to accurate typing.
I am glad to hear that Apple will upgrade the keyboard as well as the iMac. But, I hope that the upgrade is more than cosmetic and key feel.
I would like to see the considerable skills of Ives and Apple design an ergonomic keyboard for the iMac and the Mac Pro. There is a great need for an ergonomic keyboard that comes with the all desktop macs and not at additional cost. I am not expecting them to include something like the high end ergonomic keyboards, such as those from: Kinesis http://www.kinesis-ergo.com/ , Maltron http://www.maltron.com/ , Safetype http://www.safetype.com/ , that would be overkill and an added expense that most people don't need.
This could also be a good selling point when people compare Apple's to Dells and H-P's.
If they can't actually see their way to designing an ergonomic keyboard perhaps they could work with the ergonomic keyboard companies to make sure that they make a keyboard that is designed for the Mac OS X rather than just an afterthought with some keyboard mapping. And sell them thru the Apple store.
Apple had an ergonomic keyboard a while back, but nobody bought it.
So, if, as rumored, Apple drops the Mini and the entry level iMac, that would mean Apple isn't selling any computers for less than, say, $1,500 (assuming they hold the line on the price of the base 20" iMac).
Which I guess makes the iPhone the entry level Mac?
I dunno, I really can't see it. I know Apple is going for the premium segment and all, but downward trends in average desktop prices mean that price structure would be even further out of sync with the rest of the industry than it would have been previously, when Apple had $600 and $1000 machines.
Maybe the base 20" goes down to $1200, but that still seems like a lot of air between Apple's cheapest and the next guy's "pretty good".
A year or two ago a line-up that started at $1200 might have just barely been passible but surely Apple isn't going to stand pat on the sluggish growth in its desktop market-share (compared to its robust growth in the laptop segment) and expect spiffy, new, expensive iMacs to carry the burden of selling lots more desktops?
Or maybe they really don't think there's much future in the desktop so they'll just go with really, really stylin', relatively expensive entries in that market and look to notebook sales to continue to drive growth.
Which, of course, just moves the problem to another arena, as average notebook prices continue to fall and Apple holds the line on pricing.
Apple makes great machines and a great OS and to a certain extant they can use that to sway switchers even if there are cheaper PC alternatives. But I think that only works within a certain range of disparity. $1000 vs. $1200, I think they can make their case. But $600 vs. $1200? Pretty tough case to make.
Anyway, having said all that, I still don't think Apple is going to just abandon the sub $1000 desktop market entirely. Maybe something that splits the difference between the 17" iMac and Mini which becomes the new education machine?
I don't see them doing it. It's been predicted now, for months, and it still hasn't happened.
Maybe they will make a significent upgrade.
How about a full fledged ATv computer? That would be interesting.
I'd like the apple logo to be backlit and also a bright blue LED that shines in your face showing that the computer is on. Also, a green one when there's a disk activity. And hey, how about a "Turbo" key!
i think it's because the ports on the back of the computers are 2.0 and then you have to share that speed with the keyboard and the two ports on it, making it impossible to have the same speed as the original port on the computer... does that make sense?
I believe the reason is that they don't want the extra power USB 2 requires for a powered hub (which is what the keyboard is) used in the keyboard.
I am extremely happy apple finally decided to do this. Their current kb is total crap. It is completely ergonomic unfriendly. Can't adjust it is my biggest complain. The apple pro keboard before it had an adjustable lever that you flipped from front to back that adjusted the tit. The average terminal worker is supposed to change their position 69+ times a day to keep from developing issues in their body. The more you can move your kb / chair / desk / mouse the better off you will be. Apple completely failed to look at ergonomics with the current kb. I like my keyboards to be flat or have a negative tilt. I work 12-16 hour days and I don't want a static keyboard.
The next complaint is the openess of the keyboard. So much dust and dirt and grime gets in the clear plastic. Impossible to clean, though you can put them in the dish washer if you let them sit for a few days to dry out.
Next complaint is lack of extra keys! I like being able to pause / next track / volume my music. Or the Logitech Elite has a nice scroll wheel on the left side (not necessary but neat). If they added music controls (besides volume and the need for synergy) to their kb, that would be a very nice addition. For a company that claims to be so advanced in the media world their kb is definitely lacking.
Finally, usb cord length? Come on a 2 ft cord with an extension? When I was using mine the connected was always getting caught on the wood on my desk and coming apart when I pulled my kb tray out. Use a retractable cord or something. It has to cost more to have an extender than to just use long cord?
Finally the keys... the current keys on the kb have such horrible feel after a few weeks. They started sticking on me (most notably the left cmd key). I'm curious as to what apple will produce but i'm not holding my breath on anything earth shattering.
Comments
I am amazed at all the people who are complaining about the past Apple keyboards. Not that people don't like them but the reasons why they don't like them. My biggest complaint is the number pad to the right. It forces me to put my mouse way to the right beyond what is ergonomically correct. Either that or I have to shift the center of keyboard way to the left.
Have you never tried using the mouse with your left hand? (Stop sniggering at the back!
The only drawback is finding a suitable ambidextrous mouse, forcing me to have a standard *cough* MS *cough* five buttoner.
For what it's worth, the current keyboards are actually quite nice. At work I'm still using the black and green model from a Powermac G3. Now THOSE were horrible. The command key squeaks every time I press it, and almost every key sticks. It's bad.
Improvments are always great, and I'd love a slimline keyboard to use with my MBP, but let's not always complain about everything.
These keyboards make it easier to mistype.
That way they turn the all-in-one into two markets, keeping the white (of which I am no fan, but...) for consumers.
I happen to like the current "mushy" model, as you put it. I find it very comfortable. I didn't find the MacBook keyboard to be as comfortable, and I didn't like the tactile feedback. Too "clicky" for my taste. But hey, the majority rules, and I'm clearly not in the majority.
GTSC
Well, I suppose it good that a few like the current models.
But, it's interesting that the very thing that makes good keyboards, and the MB one as well, the clicky feel, is what you don't like.
So, you go against the experts in the field about this. That's ok, but it isn't considered to be condusive to accurate typing.
Not if you have small hands. I found the Macbook keyboard extremely difficult to type on.
I believe the keyboard to be about standard size.
This is the best argument yet for a Libertarian system of government.
There is NO good argument for a Libertarian system of government.
It would quickly turn into anarchy.
I am glad
I would like to see the considerable skills of Ives and Apple design an ergonomic keyboard for the iMac and the Mac Pro. There is a great need for an ergonomic keyboard that comes with the all desktop macs and not at additional cost. I am not expecting them to include something like the high end ergonomic keyboards, such as those from: Kinesis http://www.kinesis-ergo.com/ , Maltron http://www.maltron.com/ , Safetype http://www.safetype.com/ , that would be overkill and an added expense that most people don't need.
This could also be a good selling point when people compare Apple's to Dells and H-P's.
If they can't actually see their way to designing an ergonomic keyboard perhaps they could work with the ergonomic keyboard companies to make sure that they make a keyboard that is designed for the Mac OS X rather than just an afterthought with some keyboard mapping. And sell them thru the Apple store.
Apple had an ergonomic keyboard a while back, but nobody bought it.
There is NO good argument for a Libertarian system of government.
It would quickly turn into anarchy.
Libertarianism, like Communism, only works on the assumption that the majority of people aren't total idiots.
So, if, as rumored, Apple drops the Mini and the entry level iMac, that would mean Apple isn't selling any computers for less than, say, $1,500 (assuming they hold the line on the price of the base 20" iMac).
Which I guess makes the iPhone the entry level Mac?
I dunno, I really can't see it. I know Apple is going for the premium segment and all, but downward trends in average desktop prices mean that price structure would be even further out of sync with the rest of the industry than it would have been previously, when Apple had $600 and $1000 machines.
Maybe the base 20" goes down to $1200, but that still seems like a lot of air between Apple's cheapest and the next guy's "pretty good".
A year or two ago a line-up that started at $1200 might have just barely been passible but surely Apple isn't going to stand pat on the sluggish growth in its desktop market-share (compared to its robust growth in the laptop segment) and expect spiffy, new, expensive iMacs to carry the burden of selling lots more desktops?
Or maybe they really don't think there's much future in the desktop so they'll just go with really, really stylin', relatively expensive entries in that market and look to notebook sales to continue to drive growth.
Which, of course, just moves the problem to another arena, as average notebook prices continue to fall and Apple holds the line on pricing.
Apple makes great machines and a great OS and to a certain extant they can use that to sway switchers even if there are cheaper PC alternatives. But I think that only works within a certain range of disparity. $1000 vs. $1200, I think they can make their case. But $600 vs. $1200? Pretty tough case to make.
Anyway, having said all that, I still don't think Apple is going to just abandon the sub $1000 desktop market entirely. Maybe something that splits the difference between the 17" iMac and Mini which becomes the new education machine?
I don't see them doing it. It's been predicted now, for months, and it still hasn't happened.
Maybe they will make a significent upgrade.
How about a full fledged ATv computer? That would be interesting.
I'd like the apple logo to be backlit and also a bright blue LED that shines in your face showing that the computer is on. Also, a green one when there's a disk activity. And hey, how about a "Turbo" key!
Other than simple backlighting, never happen.
This is Apple, not some dorky PC gaming outfit.
i think it's because the ports on the back of the computers are 2.0 and then you have to share that speed with the keyboard and the two ports on it, making it impossible to have the same speed as the original port on the computer... does that make sense?
I believe the reason is that they don't want the extra power USB 2 requires for a powered hub (which is what the keyboard is) used in the keyboard.
Apple isn't obligated to listen to stupid people.
They should use that in their marketing materials.
Libertarianism, like Communism, only works on the assumption that the majority of people aren't total idiots.
Or greedy.
Either way, neither works.
The next complaint is the openess of the keyboard. So much dust and dirt and grime gets in the clear plastic. Impossible to clean, though you can put them in the dish washer if you let them sit for a few days to dry out.
Next complaint is lack of extra keys! I like being able to pause / next track / volume my music. Or the Logitech Elite has a nice scroll wheel on the left side (not necessary but neat). If they added music controls (besides volume and the need for synergy) to their kb, that would be a very nice addition. For a company that claims to be so advanced in the media world their kb is definitely lacking.
Finally, usb cord length? Come on a 2 ft cord with an extension? When I was using mine the connected was always getting caught on the wood on my desk and coming apart when I pulled my kb tray out. Use a retractable cord or something. It has to cost more to have an extender than to just use long cord?
Finally the keys... the current keys on the kb have such horrible feel after a few weeks. They started sticking on me (most notably the left cmd key). I'm curious as to what apple will produce but i'm not holding my breath on anything earth shattering.
There is NO good argument for a Libertarian system of government.
It would quickly turn into anarchy.
Oh, mel.
Libertarianism, like Communism, only works on the assumption that the majority of people aren't total idiots.
You have an excellent point there... I wonder if an independent state for non-idiots is the solution?
You have an excellent point there... I wonder if an independent state for non-idiots is the solution?
Which state did you have in mind? It sure as heck isn't either Texas or California...
Children can be a wonderful gift, but it's not Apple's fault you decided to breed.
Hit the nail on the head with that one. People who have dependents usually have them by choice and if not by choice, then by carelessness.
Or greedy.
Either way, neither works.
Not to derail the thread, we have mountains of evidence that our current system doesn't work. It's a special interest love-fest.