The reason that SD-DVD is good enough is that for smaller HDTVs the preference is to sit fairly far away (as a function of screen size). Far enough away and 1080p = 720p = upconverted 480p because the detail is below the visible threshold.
Take for example a 32" HDTV. The "preferred" distance as measued in a study is 7.59 ft. At that distance the pixels per degree (PPD) is 106 PPD for 1080p, 72 PPD for 720p and 48 PPD for 480p with 60 PPD being about the limit of 20/20 vision (anything higher than 60 PPD is about the same). 48 PPD by itself looks pretty good. Upconverted to 720 or 1080 and you're going to be hard pressed to tell the difference between a good upconverted SD source and a HD one (especially with any compression artifacts). You're simply sitting too far away to gain a lot of resolution difference.
That said 1080p will still look a LITTLE better as it appears that we can see finer details than the 1 arc minute rule of thumb for 20/20 vision. The DigiPixl pictures are said to be more "life like" due to the sub-visible detail that evidently we can detect (but not resolve) that isn't in lower resolution large posters.
Vinea
PS for 42" HDTV the preferred viewing distance is 9 ft...so for 720p the PPD is 66.2 making 720 = 1080. The larger the screen the "closer" you want to sit as a function of screen size. So for a 100" width (not dia) the preferred distance is 19.59 ft (I sit MUCH closer...14 ft which is the SMPTE recommendation) and 1080 shows a difference from 720 which drops below 60 PPD to 52.52 PPD. That is if my FP system was operational...which at the moment its not...
There are many broadcasters who have decided that 720 is going to be "good enough" for them.
Not to mention the savings (err, allowing for more channels) in bandwidth cf 1080 ... even with the huge stomp on the signal from the mpeg encoders this means yup more channels selling more ads, lest we not forget the real reason for broadcast.
I only throw the broadcast hat into the ring because of J6P - when he does get around to spending the loot on a hd panel he'll likely go for the lowest common denominator - 720 because that's what the broadcasters will be pushing and he can download content relatively easily.
Will he pay pay more for a 1080 panel and set top and discs ?
Not til the price is close enough to a 720 option for it not to matter.
And while this war is continuing, Joe along with many others (myself included) are quite happy to not spend a cent.
Fascinating stuff tho' ... I have to admit. Someone should make a movie and torrent it.
Walter, nice post (#3021), but one correction. When VHS came out it was the only format. Of course, if you were rich you could get abridged sound movies on 16mm film. If you were really rich you could get the whole thing on 16mm and if moderately well-to-do abridged silent 8mm movies. VHS was truly a seminal product, plus it could record.
This is why both sides would be delighted if there was one outright winner, be it Marz, Bite or Murch. some people might not admit it, but its still true one format makes sense, just like DVD made sense to J6P.
No one will challenge that one and only format choice is a good thing as long as it's affordable for everyone. In the ideal world, everyone can benefit from just one and only choice.....
However, in reality, that would be a monopoly and you can see where this is going with greedy corporate cultures. They'll eat all of us alive.
As much as I would like to have less confusion in life, especially in choice of home theater equipments, but that would mean paying $1k+ for the player and $50 for a HiDef movies, maybe at even higher price. If it wasn't for this silly hidef format war, the current pricing of $199 hidef hardware couldn't have been possible this early in the product cycle. There will be casualties of this format war, mostly early adopters, but it will be a very small sacrifice compared to all the price benefit it will provide for the J6P in the long run.
This sort of media format war started with long haul battle in mind. If either format thought they could win within the first 24 months time...... that would be the thought of a losing party because they're the ones coming to war unprepared and lack of planning.
BTW, I actually was pro-BD until Auguest of 2006, but consistently better performing HD-DVD won my vote and returned the Sammy BD player back.
You are a genius to come up with such a brilliant insult yourself. Try not to be a hypocrite. Insulting PS3 owners and Transformer fans is any better apparently.
Okay.... maybe I was having little too much fun. I'll stop now
Walter, nice post (#3021), but one correction. When VHS came out it was the only format. Of course, if you were rich you could get abridged sound movies on 16mm film. If you were really rich you could get the whole thing on 16mm and if moderately well-to-do abridged silent 8mm movies. VHS was truly a seminal product, plus it could record.
Actually, when VHS came out, it was second to the market. Betamax was already on the market.
Interesting news on the corporate fronts today. Sony has announced PlayTV, which will allow the PS3 to record TV. Meanwhile, Microsoft can't seem to shoot straight again. Its Wireless Racing Wheel has gone up in smoke (literally!) about 50 times when units were plugged into AC power. Along with the persistent Red Rings of Death on the 360, yup, this is the company I want backing my format. You know, now that I think about it, is it really a good idea for a CE product to mandate a MS technology (HDi) and an Internet connection? Sounds like a recipe for a rampant virus that can quickly create a lot of doorstops.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bitemymac
No one will challenge that one and only format choice is a good thing as long as it's affordable for everyone. In the ideal world, everyone can benefit from just one and only choice.....
However, in reality, that would be a monopoly and you can see where this is going with greedy corporate cultures. They'll eat all of us alive.
Yeah, I guess we can all see how badly the VHS and DVD monopolies have screwed us all.
There are many broadcasters who have decided that 720 is going to be "good enough" for them.
Not to mention the savings (err, allowing for more channels) in bandwidth cf 1080 ... even with the huge stomp on the signal from the mpeg encoders this means yup more channels selling more ads, lest we not forget the real reason for broadcast.
I only throw the broadcast hat into the ring because of J6P - when he does get around to spending the loot on a hd panel he'll likely go for the lowest common denominator - 720 because that's what the broadcasters will be pushing and he can download content relatively easily.
Will he pay pay more for a 1080 panel and set top and discs ?
Not til the price is close enough to a 720 option for it not to matter.
And while this war is continuing, Joe along with many others (myself included) are quite happy to not spend a cent.
Fascinating stuff tho' ... I have to admit. Someone should make a movie and torrent it.
Absolutely 720 means more and its "Better" for the broadcasters.
But I guess I was only thinking of pre recorded formats, it doesn't invalidate the important point you make though.
The more this all goes on and drags out, the more I get the feeling that 1080 is the rare treat that "only" the enthusiast/early adopter/film buff really wants, average Joe is content with SD-DVD and will eventually move to 720 because that will be the minimum new TV sets will do.
Its a sad state of affairs that we were given the "option" of 720, there really only should have been one standard from the beginning 1080P. As was pointed out earlier CDs are Amazing by comparison despite the difficulty in gettign to that level of complexity 27/25 years ago no DRM and one single stndard that has stood the test of time.
just as TV has been one single standard (yes i know) PER COUNTRY and has stood the test of time for 40 years, if we count colour broadcasts only
Walter, nice post (#3021), but one correction. When VHS came out it was the only format. Of course, if you were rich you could get abridged sound movies on 16mm film. If you were really rich you could get the whole thing on 16mm and if moderately well-to-do abridged silent 8mm movies. VHS was truly a seminal product, plus it could record.
VHS wasn't the only format lest we forget Betamax (but I'm not going there)
What I was setting up was "when DVD was introduced VHS was king" DVD was basically one format once it was around long enough to gain any traction (DIVX {whatever way its typed } was only a blip)
DVD was a single standard that everyone could see had benifits beyond the current single standard, VHS.
By that time, most people had transitioned from Tape and Vinyl to CD so they had been pre groomed if you like, that a compact 5 inch disc was a good thing, it was in their hands hadn't worn out in 15 years (I know mine haven't/hadn't in 24/5 years) the proof was there it was a tangible thing they could hold.
Wheres the proof that "just another disc" is better? wheres the pre grooming? "oh yeah it looks a bit better, yeah I can see the colours better, but it costs more, plus you say I need a new TV - Pfft§§!!"
I can see that cheap burners for data back-up will help infiltrate the sub conscious as long as there are cheap blanks too, and Cheap 720 or above LCD TVs will drive the adoption as well.
but wheres the mass market cry of "its better and I know how it will make my life better" ?? In the console market?
This is where I think Sony have made a master stroke, its already there inbuilt, it's going to provide the average Joe with a tangible benefit that they can see, "the graphic are better and the games are longer" plus they will be more aware of the Blu-ray branding.
If only the consoles were selling!
M$ IMO is going about its console business ass about face, the HD-DVD drive should have been included from the start, they talk about choice being a good thing, until it suits them for it not to be. I don't think I need to preach to the converted in a Mac forum
They are only selling by dint of having such a lead to market, the one "good" move they did make, bu part of that has fallen off and bit them on the ass (RROD, disc scratching and now the wifi problems)
So what of "good enough" and nintendo?
Steve Jobs said at the all things Digital conference that HE thought the consumer wanted hand held devices, devices that did a few things WELL rather than one divice that did everything not so well.
The Wii plays games, not video and not audio. It uses tangible things we know already for a control system we have all held a "bat" or "gun" at some point in our lives even if it was only playing as kids (toy guns obviously ) and so its an easier sell for people to say "yeah I could do this, is that all i have to do? seems easy!"
Its also the reason for the sucess of the iPod "seems easy to use" because it is, plus the huge sell of "you mean I can get ALL my music on this and carry it with me? I want one!!"
Its pretty clear that one needs "pre grooming" plus "ease of use" plus "huge obvious tangible benefit" to get a successful product into mass acceptance, look at the walkman (cassettes around a while), look at the car (slow acceptance but the horse and cart were around for a while), look at the safety razor (cut-throats were around forever.)
Wheres the same simplicity in the hi-def format war?
No one will challenge that one and only format choice is a good thing as long as it's affordable for everyone. In the ideal world, everyone can benefit from just one and only choice.....
However, in reality, that would be a monopoly and you can see where this is going with greedy corporate cultures. They'll eat all of us alive.
As much as I would like to have less confusion in life, especially in choice of home theater equipments, but that would mean paying $1k+ for the player and $50 for a HiDef movies, maybe at even higher price. If it wasn't for this silly hidef format war, the current pricing of $199 hidef hardware couldn't have been possible this early in the product cycle. There will be casualties of this format war, mostly early adopters, but it will be a very small sacrifice compared to all the price benefit it will provide for the J6P in the long run.
This sort of media format war started with long haul battle in mind. If either format thought they could win within the first 24 months time...... that would be the thought of a losing party because they're the ones coming to war unprepared and lack of planning.
BTW, I actually was pro-BD until Auguest of 2006, but consistently better performing HD-DVD won my vote and returned the Sammy BD player back.
No-one asks the early adopters to spend $1000 on a player, there is their choice Look at murch, over joyed every time tosh announced a price drop, but then went and spent nearly the $1000 on a new player...?? why??
DVD the single format J6P loves fell in price like a stone, simply because of every manufacturer trying to get in on the "next big thing" there was no format war there, just mass acceptance, because of a single format.
There was choice implied though, studios could add 5.1 or not, Extra features on an extra disc or not, Remaster, or not and low and behold people bought on that reasoning if it was important to them .. or not.
Manufacturers of Players could offer optical or coax digital out or not, component or HDMI output or not, a basic cheap and cheerful player or an esoteric hi end machine.
All of this was a viable proposition BECAUSE there was one format.
Am I stupid for not figuring out until now what 'J6P' means?
Joe 6 Pack, an allusion to the average joe with his sixpack of beer that he needs after a hard days manual work. personally its not an abreviation that I'm altogether comfortable with, but it serves for now
720p is better than 1080i. It is roughly as big a pipe, and you don't have interlace jitter.
1920x1080p,i/30fps = 62,208,000 pixels per second
1280x720p/60fps being 55,296,000 pixels per second
720p is fine for most people especially when you consider that most people aren't sitting at a viewing distance such that they could tell the difference between 720p and 1080p.
My 720p set has a picture as good as many 1080p sets when you consider all the factors that make up picture quality.
Joe 6 Pack, an allusion to the average joe with his sixpack of beer that he needs after a hard days manual work. personally its not an abreviation that I'm altogether comfortable with, but it serves for now
Yeah, I figured it out in about 10 seconds after looking at it. It was pretty strange, really - I don't use the term 'Joe 6 Pack' much but it was the first thing that came to mind and it seemed to work in all the contexts I was seeing J6P, so. ;P
Interesting news on the corporate fronts today. Sony has announced PlayTV, which will allow the PS3 to record TV. Meanwhile, Microsoft can't seem to shoot straight again. Its Wireless Racing Wheel has gone up in smoke (literally!) about 50 times when units were plugged into AC power. Along with the persistent Red Rings of Death on the 360, yup, this is the company I want backing my format. You know, now that I think about it, is it really a good idea for a CE product to mandate a MS technology (HDi) and an Internet connection? Sounds like a recipe for a rampant virus that can quickly create a lot of doorstops.
Yeah, I guess we can all see how badly the VHS and DVD monopolies have screwed us all.
I'm looking forward to more info on the Play TV thing from Sony, I already have a PVR to record with, can't see much need for another one yet but the interesting thing is that it will record HD 1080!! we don't have 1080 over the air broadcasts here yet, and I felt it was unlikely that we ever would, however the first switch off of analogue happens here in 2008, so who knows, anythings possible.
{PS} All the talk seems to be for DVB/Freeview to switch from Mpeg2 to Mpeg4 "eventually" because it will allow the same quality at a more effective bandwidth cost, meaning more channels of the same quality or the same number of channels in Higher Def form.
The problem is that all the digital boxes that are now installed in peoples homes are Mpeg2 ONLY, so I don't think that it will ever go Mpeg4.
As to microsoft, I would happily see them all burn in hell, if I actually believed in such a place.
An open standard is best, is WMV open? is the codec M$ use on HD-DVD VC-1 open? MP4 is open isn't it. are M$ pushing that? or their own codec.
do I want M$ in charge of a codec or for the codec to be open?
As Mac users we shouldn't have to think too deeply about that.
Remind me again why Parawhore went HD DVD exclusive? (notice Disturbia in the top ten on Blu-ray w/ HD DVD's version no where to be found in the top ten)...mmm, yeah, we know, but every whore now and again needs pimp slapped for making mistakes.
I see this trend, 70:30 continuing with Fox back in the game and with the heavy blockbusters from Pixar/Disney and Sony to come this holiday.
Anyone else also notice that the Warner Senior VP has steeped down, who was a very outspoken proponent of HD DVD...
One can only hope that he is replaced with a rational person who see where the money has been and will continue to be in this high-def market--with Blu-ray around 70% all year long.
No-one asks the early adopters to spend $1000 on a player, there is their choice Look at murch, over joyed every time tosh announced a price drop, but then went and spent nearly the $1000 on a new player...?? why??
DVD the single format J6P loves fell in price like a stone, simply because of every manufacturer trying to get in on the "next big thing" there was no format war there, just mass acceptance, because of a single format.
Initial 4 years of DVD was spent with the enthusiasts prior to the mass acceptance. And during this time, people did pay $1000 for their first DVD players and did shed the blood for J6P.
Of course, DVD had much benefit over the VHS and others, but w/out enthusiasts dropping $ in the hardware to eventually reach a consumer end pricing, which was $199 and lower, it would not have been much of a sucess. Consumers had to choose from LD vs. VHS vs. DIVX vs. DVD and not from a single format.
This format war isn't something new. In three to 4 years time, we'll see another better and improved but more expensive format evolving for the enthusiasts and approved to J6P use and pricing.
One can only hope that he is replaced with a rational person who see where the money has been and will continue to be in this high-def market--with Blu-ray around 70% all year long.
Actually, he was proponent to neutral format support, remember HD/BD flip disc?
Remind me again why Parawhore went HD DVD exclusive? (notice Disturbia in the top ten on Blu-ray w/ HD DVD's version no where to be found in the top ten)...mmm, yeah, we know, but every whore now and again needs pimp slapped for making mistakes.
Microshaft? Parawhore? Pimpslapping?
You've lost it Marz. When you have to stoop to this kind of thing to promote your side, it's time to take a step back and reevaluate.
Comments
Take for example a 32" HDTV. The "preferred" distance as measued in a study is 7.59 ft. At that distance the pixels per degree (PPD) is 106 PPD for 1080p, 72 PPD for 720p and 48 PPD for 480p with 60 PPD being about the limit of 20/20 vision (anything higher than 60 PPD is about the same). 48 PPD by itself looks pretty good. Upconverted to 720 or 1080 and you're going to be hard pressed to tell the difference between a good upconverted SD source and a HD one (especially with any compression artifacts). You're simply sitting too far away to gain a lot of resolution difference.
That said 1080p will still look a LITTLE better as it appears that we can see finer details than the 1 arc minute rule of thumb for 20/20 vision. The DigiPixl pictures are said to be more "life like" due to the sub-visible detail that evidently we can detect (but not resolve) that isn't in lower resolution large posters.
Vinea
PS for 42" HDTV the preferred viewing distance is 9 ft...so for 720p the PPD is 66.2 making 720 = 1080. The larger the screen the "closer" you want to sit as a function of screen size. So for a 100" width (not dia) the preferred distance is 19.59 ft (I sit MUCH closer...14 ft which is the SMPTE recommendation) and 1080 shows a difference from 720 which drops below 60 PPD to 52.52 PPD. That is if my FP system was operational...which at the moment its not...
There are many broadcasters who have decided that 720 is going to be "good enough" for them.
Not to mention the savings (err, allowing for more channels) in bandwidth cf 1080 ... even with the huge stomp on the signal from the mpeg encoders this means yup more channels selling more ads, lest we not forget the real reason for broadcast.
I only throw the broadcast hat into the ring because of J6P - when he does get around to spending the loot on a hd panel he'll likely go for the lowest common denominator - 720 because that's what the broadcasters will be pushing and he can download content relatively easily.
Will he pay pay more for a 1080 panel and set top and discs ?
Not til the price is close enough to a 720 option for it not to matter.
And while this war is continuing, Joe along with many others (myself included) are quite happy to not spend a cent.
Fascinating stuff tho' ... I have to admit. Someone should make a movie and torrent it.
1920x1080p,i/30fps = 62,208,000 pixels per second
1280x720p/60fps being 55,296,000 pixels per second
This is why both sides would be delighted if there was one outright winner, be it Marz, Bite or Murch. some people might not admit it, but its still true one format makes sense, just like DVD made sense to J6P.
No one will challenge that one and only format choice is a good thing as long as it's affordable for everyone. In the ideal world, everyone can benefit from just one and only choice.....
However, in reality, that would be a monopoly and you can see where this is going with greedy corporate cultures. They'll eat all of us alive.
As much as I would like to have less confusion in life, especially in choice of home theater equipments, but that would mean paying $1k+ for the player and $50 for a HiDef movies, maybe at even higher price. If it wasn't for this silly hidef format war, the current pricing of $199 hidef hardware couldn't have been possible this early in the product cycle. There will be casualties of this format war, mostly early adopters, but it will be a very small sacrifice compared to all the price benefit it will provide for the J6P in the long run.
This sort of media format war started with long haul battle in mind. If either format thought they could win within the first 24 months time...... that would be the thought of a losing party because they're the ones coming to war unprepared and lack of planning.
BTW, I actually was pro-BD until Auguest of 2006, but consistently better performing HD-DVD won my vote and returned the Sammy BD player back.
You are a genius to come up with such a brilliant insult yourself. Try not to be a hypocrite. Insulting PS3 owners and Transformer fans is any better apparently.
Okay.... maybe I was having little too much fun. I'll stop now
Walter, nice post (#3021), but one correction. When VHS came out it was the only format. Of course, if you were rich you could get abridged sound movies on 16mm film. If you were really rich you could get the whole thing on 16mm and if moderately well-to-do abridged silent 8mm movies. VHS was truly a seminal product, plus it could record.
Actually, when VHS came out, it was second to the market. Betamax was already on the market.
Interesting news on the corporate fronts today. Sony has announced PlayTV, which will allow the PS3 to record TV. Meanwhile, Microsoft can't seem to shoot straight again. Its Wireless Racing Wheel has gone up in smoke (literally!) about 50 times when units were plugged into AC power. Along with the persistent Red Rings of Death on the 360, yup, this is the company I want backing my format. You know, now that I think about it, is it really a good idea for a CE product to mandate a MS technology (HDi) and an Internet connection? Sounds like a recipe for a rampant virus that can quickly create a lot of doorstops.
No one will challenge that one and only format choice is a good thing as long as it's affordable for everyone. In the ideal world, everyone can benefit from just one and only choice.....
However, in reality, that would be a monopoly and you can see where this is going with greedy corporate cultures. They'll eat all of us alive.
Yeah, I guess we can all see how badly the VHS and DVD monopolies have screwed us all.
"could AppleTVs 720 be "good enough" for J6P?"
There are many broadcasters who have decided that 720 is going to be "good enough" for them.
Not to mention the savings (err, allowing for more channels) in bandwidth cf 1080 ... even with the huge stomp on the signal from the mpeg encoders this means yup more channels selling more ads, lest we not forget the real reason for broadcast.
I only throw the broadcast hat into the ring because of J6P - when he does get around to spending the loot on a hd panel he'll likely go for the lowest common denominator - 720 because that's what the broadcasters will be pushing and he can download content relatively easily.
Will he pay pay more for a 1080 panel and set top and discs ?
Not til the price is close enough to a 720 option for it not to matter.
And while this war is continuing, Joe along with many others (myself included) are quite happy to not spend a cent.
Fascinating stuff tho' ... I have to admit. Someone should make a movie and torrent it.
Absolutely
But I guess I was only thinking of pre recorded formats, it doesn't invalidate the important point you make though.
The more this all goes on and drags out, the more I get the feeling that 1080 is the rare treat that "only" the enthusiast/early adopter/film buff really wants, average Joe is content with SD-DVD and will eventually move to 720 because that will be the minimum new TV sets will do.
Its a sad state of affairs that we were given the "option" of 720, there really only should have been one standard from the beginning 1080P. As was pointed out earlier CDs are Amazing by comparison despite the difficulty in gettign to that level of complexity 27/25 years ago no DRM and one single stndard that has stood the test of time.
just as TV has been one single standard (yes i know) PER COUNTRY and has stood the test of time for 40 years, if we count colour broadcasts only
Walter, nice post (#3021), but one correction. When VHS came out it was the only format. Of course, if you were rich you could get abridged sound movies on 16mm film. If you were really rich you could get the whole thing on 16mm and if moderately well-to-do abridged silent 8mm movies. VHS was truly a seminal product, plus it could record.
VHS wasn't the only format lest we forget Betamax (but I'm not going there)
What I was setting up was "when DVD was introduced VHS was king" DVD was basically one format once it was around long enough to gain any traction (DIVX {whatever way its typed
DVD was a single standard that everyone could see had benifits beyond the current single standard, VHS.
By that time, most people had transitioned from Tape and Vinyl to CD so they had been pre groomed if you like, that a compact 5 inch disc was a good thing, it was in their hands hadn't worn out in 15 years (I know mine haven't/hadn't in 24/5 years) the proof was there it was a tangible thing they could hold.
Wheres the proof that "just another disc" is better? wheres the pre grooming? "oh yeah it looks a bit better, yeah I can see the colours better, but it costs more, plus you say I need a new TV - Pfft§§!!"
I can see that cheap burners for data back-up will help infiltrate the sub conscious as long as there are cheap blanks too, and Cheap 720 or above LCD TVs will drive the adoption as well.
but wheres the mass market cry of "its better and I know how it will make my life better" ?? In the console market?
This is where I think Sony have made a master stroke, its already there inbuilt, it's going to provide the average Joe with a tangible benefit that they can see, "the graphic are better and the games are longer" plus they will be more aware of the Blu-ray branding.
If only the consoles were selling!
M$ IMO is going about its console business ass about face, the HD-DVD drive should have been included from the start, they talk about choice being a good thing, until it suits them for it not to be. I don't think I need to preach to the converted in a Mac forum
They are only selling by dint of having such a lead to market, the one "good" move they did make, bu part of that has fallen off and bit them on the ass (RROD, disc scratching and now the wifi problems)
So what of "good enough" and nintendo?
Steve Jobs said at the all things Digital conference that HE thought the consumer wanted hand held devices, devices that did a few things WELL rather than one divice that did everything not so well.
The Wii plays games, not video and not audio. It uses tangible things we know already for a control system we have all held a "bat" or "gun" at some point in our lives even if it was only playing as kids (toy guns obviously
Its also the reason for the sucess of the iPod "seems easy to use" because it is, plus the huge sell of "you mean I can get ALL my music on this and carry it with me? I want one!!"
Its pretty clear that one needs "pre grooming" plus "ease of use" plus "huge obvious tangible benefit" to get a successful product into mass acceptance, look at the walkman (cassettes around a while), look at the car (slow acceptance but the horse and cart were around for a while), look at the safety razor (cut-throats were around forever.)
Wheres the same simplicity in the hi-def format war?
One format makes sense.
No one will challenge that one and only format choice is a good thing as long as it's affordable for everyone. In the ideal world, everyone can benefit from just one and only choice.....
However, in reality, that would be a monopoly and you can see where this is going with greedy corporate cultures. They'll eat all of us alive.
As much as I would like to have less confusion in life, especially in choice of home theater equipments, but that would mean paying $1k+ for the player and $50 for a HiDef movies, maybe at even higher price. If it wasn't for this silly hidef format war, the current pricing of $199 hidef hardware couldn't have been possible this early in the product cycle. There will be casualties of this format war, mostly early adopters, but it will be a very small sacrifice compared to all the price benefit it will provide for the J6P in the long run.
This sort of media format war started with long haul battle in mind. If either format thought they could win within the first 24 months time...... that would be the thought of a losing party because they're the ones coming to war unprepared and lack of planning.
BTW, I actually was pro-BD until Auguest of 2006, but consistently better performing HD-DVD won my vote and returned the Sammy BD player back.
No-one asks the early adopters to spend $1000 on a player, there is their choice
DVD the single format J6P loves fell in price like a stone, simply because of every manufacturer trying to get in on the "next big thing" there was no format war there, just mass acceptance, because of a single format.
There was choice implied though, studios could add 5.1 or not, Extra features on an extra disc or not, Remaster, or not and low and behold people bought on that reasoning if it was important to them .. or not.
Manufacturers of Players could offer optical or coax digital out or not, component or HDMI output or not, a basic cheap and cheerful player or an esoteric hi end machine.
All of this was a viable proposition BECAUSE there was one format.
Am I stupid for not figuring out until now what 'J6P' means?
Joe 6 Pack, an allusion to the average joe with his sixpack of beer that he needs after a hard days manual work.
720p is better than 1080i. It is roughly as big a pipe, and you don't have interlace jitter.
1920x1080p,i/30fps = 62,208,000 pixels per second
1280x720p/60fps being 55,296,000 pixels per second
720p is fine for most people especially when you consider that most people aren't sitting at a viewing distance such that they could tell the difference between 720p and 1080p.
My 720p set has a picture as good as many 1080p sets when you consider all the factors that make up picture quality.
Am I stupid for not figuring out until now what 'J6P' means?
Don't keep us in suspense! What does it mean?
Joe 6 Pack, an allusion to the average joe with his sixpack of beer that he needs after a hard days manual work.
Yeah, I figured it out in about 10 seconds after looking at it. It was pretty strange, really - I don't use the term 'Joe 6 Pack' much but it was the first thing that came to mind and it seemed to work in all the contexts I was seeing J6P, so. ;P
Interesting news on the corporate fronts today. Sony has announced PlayTV, which will allow the PS3 to record TV. Meanwhile, Microsoft can't seem to shoot straight again. Its Wireless Racing Wheel has gone up in smoke (literally!) about 50 times when units were plugged into AC power. Along with the persistent Red Rings of Death on the 360, yup, this is the company I want backing my format. You know, now that I think about it, is it really a good idea for a CE product to mandate a MS technology (HDi) and an Internet connection? Sounds like a recipe for a rampant virus that can quickly create a lot of doorstops.
Yeah, I guess we can all see how badly the VHS and DVD monopolies have screwed us all.
I'm looking forward to more info on the Play TV thing from Sony, I already have a PVR to record with, can't see much need for another one yet but the interesting thing is that it will record HD 1080!! we don't have 1080 over the air broadcasts here yet, and I felt it was unlikely that we ever would, however the first switch off of analogue happens here in 2008, so who knows, anythings possible.
{PS} All the talk seems to be for DVB/Freeview to switch from Mpeg2 to Mpeg4 "eventually" because it will allow the same quality at a more effective bandwidth cost, meaning more channels of the same quality or the same number of channels in Higher Def form.
The problem is that all the digital boxes that are now installed in peoples homes are Mpeg2 ONLY, so I don't think that it will ever go Mpeg4.
As to microsoft, I would happily see them all burn in hell, if I actually believed in such a place.
An open standard is best, is WMV open? is the codec M$ use on HD-DVD VC-1 open? MP4 is open isn't it. are M$ pushing that? or their own codec.
do I want M$ in charge of a codec or for the codec to be open?
As Mac users we shouldn't have to think too deeply about that.
Remind me again why Parawhore went HD DVD exclusive? (notice Disturbia in the top ten on Blu-ray w/ HD DVD's version no where to be found in the top ten)...mmm, yeah, we know, but every whore now and again needs pimp slapped for making mistakes.
I see this trend, 70:30 continuing with Fox back in the game and with the heavy blockbusters from Pixar/Disney and Sony to come this holiday.
Anyone else also notice that the Warner Senior VP has steeped down, who was a very outspoken proponent of HD DVD...
Warner Brothers' Steve Nickerson Steps Down
One can only hope that he is replaced with a rational person who see where the money has been and will continue to be in this high-def market--with Blu-ray around 70% all year long.
No-one asks the early adopters to spend $1000 on a player, there is their choice
DVD the single format J6P loves fell in price like a stone, simply because of every manufacturer trying to get in on the "next big thing" there was no format war there, just mass acceptance, because of a single format.
Initial 4 years of DVD was spent with the enthusiasts prior to the mass acceptance. And during this time, people did pay $1000 for their first DVD players and did shed the blood for J6P.
Of course, DVD had much benefit over the VHS and others, but w/out enthusiasts dropping $ in the hardware to eventually reach a consumer end pricing, which was $199 and lower, it would not have been much of a sucess. Consumers had to choose from LD vs. VHS vs. DIVX vs. DVD and not from a single format.
This format war isn't something new. In three to 4 years time, we'll see another better and improved but more expensive format evolving for the enthusiasts and approved to J6P use and pricing.
Anyone else also notice that the Warner Senior VP has steeped down, who was a very outspoken proponent of HD DVD...
Warner Brothers' Steve Nickerson Steps Down
One can only hope that he is replaced with a rational person who see where the money has been and will continue to be in this high-def market--with Blu-ray around 70% all year long.
Actually, he was proponent to neutral format support, remember HD/BD flip disc?
Paramount Choking on Microshaft's Greenback...
Remind me again why Parawhore went HD DVD exclusive? (notice Disturbia in the top ten on Blu-ray w/ HD DVD's version no where to be found in the top ten)...mmm, yeah, we know, but every whore now and again needs pimp slapped for making mistakes.
Microshaft? Parawhore? Pimpslapping?
You've lost it Marz. When you have to stoop to this kind of thing to promote your side, it's time to take a step back and reevaluate.
It's pretty sad to watch actually.