I see two "should"s that wouldn't put my confidence in the TL51 just yet. BTW, why does it matter to HD DVD enthusiasts, as I thought 30 GB is "good enough?"
Is your guys stories going to change yet again? Now, all of a sudden storage matters? Interesting, to say the least, but I can't say that it is suprising.
You know, you could be a blu-ray fanboy without being a jackass... if you felt like it.
I didn't mean to come off sounding condescending. Actually I'm waiting for both formats to wow me ( I like extras..when they offer good value which in my case is unique information). I think that finding some sort of Magic Bullet for extras is going to be key to either format usurping DVD.
I'd venture that some sort of communal interactivity or social networking (I know..gag) may be necessary. If someone accepts $25 HD movies they likely have a computer and have broadband access. Take this and tie this into compelling interactivity and you have potentially the Next Big Thing.
You know, you could be a blu-ray fanboy without being a jackass... if you felt like it.
Wow, that was random. I don't think it really dignifies a response, I'm simply stating the obvious...dare I say "contradictions" coming out of the HD DVD camp. Ya know, kinda like how extras didn't mean anything a year ago, but now they do because of PIP and IME are on HD DVDs. Talk about grasping at talking points.
Can anyone attest to how good this show is? Anyone seen it? Looks good with the likes of Keaton and O'Donnel in it, but was curious from the group here.
Oh, we were confused because you quoted a valid point and not a straw man argument in that post.
Sorry, the way "OMG STRAW MAN!" used to get tossed around AppleOutsider gave me serious hay fever and it's been a pet peeve of mine ever since.
On that note, I think it's time for me to announce a serious chenge-of-mind akin to my original switch to the Mac. I want HD DVD to die and get out of the way already. Initially I wanted HD DVD to win because I don't like Sony and I don't think I'll ever forgive them for things like rootkit adventures.
I just want high-def movies damn it. I don't want to buy more than one player and I don't want to buy a hybrid player unless it's less than %25 or so more expensive than a single-format stand-alone. Hopefully I'll finally be able to get an HDTV and an HD disc player inside of a year. I really hope HDDVD has finally succumbed by then so I can actually go ahead and do it. If this damn format war is still going on when I finally have the $$ it'll be staying in my pocket.
Oh, we were confused because you quoted a valid point and not a straw man argument in that post.
Sorry, the way "OMG STRAW MAN!" used to get tossed around AppleOutsider gave me serious hay fever and it's been a pet peeve of mine ever since.
On that note, I think it's time for me to announce a serious chenge-of-mind akin to my original switch to the Mac. I want HD DVD to die and get out of the way already. Initially I wanted HD DVD to win because I don't like Sony and I don't think I'll ever forgive them for things like rootkit adventures.
I just want high-def movies damn it. I don't want to buy more than one player and I don't want to buy a hybrid player unless it's less than %25 or so more expensive than a single-format stand-alone. Hopefully I'll finally be able to get an HDTV and an HD disc player inside of a year. I really hope HDDVD has finally succumbed by then so I can actually go ahead and do it. If this damn format war is still going on when I finally have the $$ it'll be staying in my pocket.
The HD format war is just getting interesting. You will have to hold onto your hard earned $$ for long time unless you're ready to gamble a little for your viewing pleasure. Perhaps, if you wait long enough, the hybrid HD players would become cheap enough to J6P budget. I would probably get one of those $199 hybrid HD players, too.
The HD format war is just getting interesting. You will have to hold onto your hard earned $$ for long time unless you're ready to gamble a little for your viewing pleasure. Perhaps, if you wait long enough, the hybrid HD players would become cheap enough to J6P budget. I would probably get one of those $199 hybrid HD players, too.
Or just buy whatever you planned to buy (console, laptop, mac, whatever) anyway and if it comes with a HD player great. If not...eh.
The only way I'm getting either a HD-DVD or Blu-Ray player is if it comes with my console. Unlikely that MS will make a 360 with a HD-DVD drive built in but they could and if its only $100 more I'd spring for it vs one without.
The numbers are in and yet another week goes to Blu-ray, despite lackluster releases from both parties. I have to agree with Guartho, I think HD DVD needs to bow out to simply get this ridiculous war over already. They've been losing all year and all signs point to HD DVD losing even more come the 4th quarter.
Ah well, I think this holiday season will be make or break time. It ought to be interesting nonetheless.
In a statement to BetaNews this afternoon, a Toshiba spokesperson said that only a preliminary version of Toshiba's 51 GB three-layer, single-sided HD DVD format had been approved by the DVD Forum, caretaker of HD DVD.
As it turned out, and as Toshiba's spokespersons may have only just now realized, the DVD Forum signed off on a preliminary specification, which may have been confused for the final specification because its version number is 1.9.
"We understand that the preliminary version (1.9) of the physical specifications for the triple-layer 51 GB HD DVD-ROM disc has been approved," said Toshiba's spokesperson today.
The spokesperson then added that it has not yet been determined whether current HD DVD players or recorders will be able to use the new format, which the headline of an official Toshiba statement given to BetaNews today is now calling "Trip-Layer." "Toshiba will study the performance of current HD DVD player/recorders with the disc after the standard receives final approval by the DVD Forum."
That last part is a pretty clear indication that final approval was not granted, contrary to our earlier report based on industry news that cited sources with a stake in the format.
The formal Toshiba statement reads as follows: "We welcome the DVD Forum Steering Committee's decision to approve the preliminary version (Version 1.9) of the physical specifications for the triple-layer 51 GB HD DVD-ROM disc. This decision reinforces the fact that HD DVD is capable of offering a range of capacities due to the flexible nature of the format and provides studios with even greater options for creating high definition content. With extended capacities, studios can meet their future needs for releases that may require more storage."
Toshiba's admission today is the first genuine admission from the company that work on engineering the final "Trip-Layer" format has actually not been completed, as was previously believed.
Mmmm, very attractive package if true. I could easily see Sony doubling their sales, even surpassing the 10 million mark made by the Xbox360 if this rumor proves true.
Not really. Not at all. The majority of console purchasers use the console for nothing else but gaming. And if you were a gamer you would understand that there's more to console gaming than the capabilities of the console. You have to take into account how well programmers are at coding for a platform. And the interesting thing here is that not even the XBox 360 has seen it's limits reached. As a matter of fact Gears Of War makes most games available on PS3 look like cartoons and it's for Xbox 360. You can have the best tech in the world but if you don't have the games you won't sell enough consoles. Gamers buy consoles to play games, not watch movies. I didn't bother to get the HD DVD player for my Xbox. Who cares?
I read an interesting article the other day in a gaming mag that was detailing how gaming programmers never reach the limits for the current generations of consoles because the next ones are rushed to the market. Basically the rush is always started by the companies who aren't winning the current console wars. They are eager to have another shot so they lead the next rush.
Also, there's a reason why gamers prefer the XBOX 360.( I purchased the XBox 360 Elite myself.) Xbox 360 has a MUCH better selection of games. Microsoft has Halo3 and Gears Of War. End of discussion. Try to find a better selling game than Halo3.
Also, XBOX Live is a fantastic online gaming community. You can log on at any time and play with people from around the world. I was playing Gears last night with some Spaniards and a French guy. Not much talking but great gaming. lol
Xbox 360 is the one to get for gaming. And trust me I'm not a big fan of Microsoft so if I purchased one it was with a bit of reluctance! lol
Now if you would like to purchase a PS3 to get a Blu Ray player at a good price, that's another story. But those types of buyers will not be enough to enable the PS3 to surpass Xbox 360 sales. No way. Not with the Blu-Ray/HD-DVD format wars still in progress.
The lack of game titles is really concerning. Is it because the system is 'new', or are the software developers having a difficult time writing games on this platform?
The RRoD just scares me away. AFAIK, MS is just setting aside money to repair and replace systems. I don't think they are correcting the design flaw. The titles on the 360 though are pretty good. Especially 1st person shooter.
I've not made up my mind completely but I'm leaning ps3. The BR player is kinda an added bonus.
For gaming PS3 is lacking. Xbox 360 titles kill PS3 titles.
Toshiba: DVD Forum Hasn't Yet Approved Final 51 GB HD DVD After All
Quote:
As it turned out, and as Toshiba's spokespersons may have only just now realized, the DVD Forum signed off on a preliminary specification, which may have been confused for the final specification because its version number is 1.9.
"We understand that the preliminary version (1.9) of the physical specifications for the triple-layer 51 GB HD DVD-ROM disc has been approved," said Toshiba's spokesperson today.
The spokesperson then added that it has not yet been determined whether current HD DVD players or recorders will be able to use the new format, which the headline of an official Toshiba statement given to BetaNews today is now calling "Trip-Layer." "Toshiba will study the performance of current HD DVD player/recorders with the disc after the standard receives final approval by the DVD Forum."
Heh. And Biteme was so sure that the standard was not only approved, it had already been released (as in "I thought hybrid three layer HD-DVD/DVD title already exists and have shown no issue with even 1st gen hardwares") . He was also dead sure that current players could handle it with just a minor firmware upgrade. Even assuming that's possible, Toshiba has already admitted there will be higher error rates on the third layer. Let's call it what it really is, shall we? It's not a 51GB disc. It's more like a 45 or so after you take out all the bad data.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bitemymac
Oh no.... I really hope it doesn't turn into BD+ or BD profile fiasco. That would probably force me to go on the side line.
Yeah, only the BDA makes promises it can't keep. Not like Toshiba and its 3 million players by the end of 2007. No, wait, didn't they downgrade to 2 million? At this point, it looks like they won't even make the one million mark.
The "best game" depends on what you like, for me it is:
World of Warcraft: Mac
Bioshock: PC and 360
Elder scrolls: PC, xbox and PS3, better on PS3 than xbox
The games I am looking forward to the most are: Too Human (ps3), Conan (ps3) and Star Wars: Force Unleashed (360)
I agree that what you like is a matter of taste (and by the way, I think you have great tastes in games) BUT what makes a console maker money is having what MOST people like. And again...what outsells the Halo line in console gaming? In about 10 days Halo3 will set new records in units sold.
I'm not saying PS3's are trash. I am saying that I do not see their number of unit sold surpassing Xbox 360's numbers sold. That is what my first post was about. And that as a gamer I would easily recommend one over another to those who are trying to decide between the two.
I always thought that the PS3 is overkill on its capabilities. It doesn't make much sense to provide much more processing power than your competitor because at the end, game makers will only make one version of a game, then tweak it to run on each system. Therefore typically a 360/PS3 game graphic capabilities will max out the power of the weaker of the 2 systems.
Comments
I see two "should"s that wouldn't put my confidence in the TL51 just yet. BTW, why does it matter to HD DVD enthusiasts, as I thought 30 GB is "good enough?"
Is your guys stories going to change yet again? Now, all of a sudden storage matters? Interesting, to say the least, but I can't say that it is suprising.
You know, you could be a blu-ray fanboy without being a jackass... if you felt like it.
I didn't mean to come off sounding condescending. Actually I'm waiting for both formats to wow me ( I like extras..when they offer good value which in my case is unique information). I think that finding some sort of Magic Bullet for extras is going to be key to either format usurping DVD.
I'd venture that some sort of communal interactivity or social networking (I know..gag) may be necessary. If someone accepts $25 HD movies they likely have a computer and have broadband access. Take this and tie this into compelling interactivity and you have potentially the Next Big Thing.
You know, you could be a blu-ray fanboy without being a jackass... if you felt like it.
Wow, that was random. I don't think it really dignifies a response, I'm simply stating the obvious...dare I say "contradictions" coming out of the HD DVD camp. Ya know, kinda like how extras didn't mean anything a year ago, but now they do because of PIP and IME are on HD DVDs. Talk about grasping at talking points.
Anyhow, I saw this today...
Specs, Extras Announced for 'The Company' Blu-ray
http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/sh...ny_Blu-ray/907
Can anyone attest to how good this show is? Anyone seen it? Looks good with the likes of Keaton and O'Donnel in it, but was curious from the group here.
Wow, that was random.
It was in response to your strawman argument.
It was in response to your strawman argument.
Oh, we were confused because you quoted a valid point and not a straw man argument in that post.
Sorry, the way "OMG STRAW MAN!" used to get tossed around AppleOutsider gave me serious hay fever and it's been a pet peeve of mine ever since.
On that note, I think it's time for me to announce a serious chenge-of-mind akin to my original switch to the Mac. I want HD DVD to die and get out of the way already. Initially I wanted HD DVD to win because I don't like Sony and I don't think I'll ever forgive them for things like rootkit adventures.
I just want high-def movies damn it. I don't want to buy more than one player and I don't want to buy a hybrid player unless it's less than %25 or so more expensive than a single-format stand-alone. Hopefully I'll finally be able to get an HDTV and an HD disc player inside of a year. I really hope HDDVD has finally succumbed by then so I can actually go ahead and do it. If this damn format war is still going on when I finally have the $$ it'll be staying in my pocket.
Oh, we were confused because you quoted a valid point and not a straw man argument in that post.
Sorry, the way "OMG STRAW MAN!" used to get tossed around AppleOutsider gave me serious hay fever and it's been a pet peeve of mine ever since.
On that note, I think it's time for me to announce a serious chenge-of-mind akin to my original switch to the Mac. I want HD DVD to die and get out of the way already. Initially I wanted HD DVD to win because I don't like Sony and I don't think I'll ever forgive them for things like rootkit adventures.
I just want high-def movies damn it. I don't want to buy more than one player and I don't want to buy a hybrid player unless it's less than %25 or so more expensive than a single-format stand-alone. Hopefully I'll finally be able to get an HDTV and an HD disc player inside of a year. I really hope HDDVD has finally succumbed by then so I can actually go ahead and do it. If this damn format war is still going on when I finally have the $$ it'll be staying in my pocket.
The HD format war is just getting interesting. You will have to hold onto your hard earned $$ for long time unless you're ready to gamble a little for your viewing pleasure. Perhaps, if you wait long enough, the hybrid HD players would become cheap enough to J6P budget. I would probably get one of those $199 hybrid HD players, too.
The HD format war is just getting interesting. You will have to hold onto your hard earned $$ for long time unless you're ready to gamble a little for your viewing pleasure. Perhaps, if you wait long enough, the hybrid HD players would become cheap enough to J6P budget. I would probably get one of those $199 hybrid HD players, too.
Or just buy whatever you planned to buy (console, laptop, mac, whatever) anyway and if it comes with a HD player great. If not...eh.
The only way I'm getting either a HD-DVD or Blu-Ray player is if it comes with my console. Unlikely that MS will make a 360 with a HD-DVD drive built in but they could and if its only $100 more I'd spring for it vs one without.
http://www.nxtbook.com/nxtbooks/ques...1607/index.php
WE: BD-60% HDD-40% YTD: BD-66% HDD-34% SI: BD-61% HDD-39%
The numbers are in and yet another week goes to Blu-ray, despite lackluster releases from both parties. I have to agree with Guartho, I think HD DVD needs to bow out to simply get this ridiculous war over already. They've been losing all year and all signs point to HD DVD losing even more come the 4th quarter.
Ah well, I think this holiday season will be make or break time. It ought to be interesting nonetheless.
http://www.betanews.com/article/Tosh...All/1189716943
In a statement to BetaNews this afternoon, a Toshiba spokesperson said that only a preliminary version of Toshiba's 51 GB three-layer, single-sided HD DVD format had been approved by the DVD Forum, caretaker of HD DVD.
As it turned out, and as Toshiba's spokespersons may have only just now realized, the DVD Forum signed off on a preliminary specification, which may have been confused for the final specification because its version number is 1.9.
"We understand that the preliminary version (1.9) of the physical specifications for the triple-layer 51 GB HD DVD-ROM disc has been approved," said Toshiba's spokesperson today.
The spokesperson then added that it has not yet been determined whether current HD DVD players or recorders will be able to use the new format, which the headline of an official Toshiba statement given to BetaNews today is now calling "Trip-Layer." "Toshiba will study the performance of current HD DVD player/recorders with the disc after the standard receives final approval by the DVD Forum."
That last part is a pretty clear indication that final approval was not granted, contrary to our earlier report based on industry news that cited sources with a stake in the format.
The formal Toshiba statement reads as follows: "We welcome the DVD Forum Steering Committee's decision to approve the preliminary version (Version 1.9) of the physical specifications for the triple-layer 51 GB HD DVD-ROM disc. This decision reinforces the fact that HD DVD is capable of offering a range of capacities due to the flexible nature of the format and provides studios with even greater options for creating high definition content. With extended capacities, studios can meet their future needs for releases that may require more storage."
Toshiba's admission today is the first genuine admission from the company that work on engineering the final "Trip-Layer" format has actually not been completed, as was previously believed.
Toshiba: DVD Forum Hasn't Yet Approved Final 51 GB HD DVD After All
http://www.betanews.com/article/Tosh...All/1189716943
Oh no.... I really hope it doesn't turn into BD+ or BD profile fiasco. That would probably force me to go on the side line.
Rumor: PS3 Effect All Over Again?...
http://arstechnica.com/journals/thum...s-future-plans
Mmmm, very attractive package if true. I could easily see Sony doubling their sales, even surpassing the 10 million mark made by the Xbox360 if this rumor proves true.
Not really. Not at all. The majority of console purchasers use the console for nothing else but gaming. And if you were a gamer you would understand that there's more to console gaming than the capabilities of the console. You have to take into account how well programmers are at coding for a platform. And the interesting thing here is that not even the XBox 360 has seen it's limits reached. As a matter of fact Gears Of War makes most games available on PS3 look like cartoons and it's for Xbox 360. You can have the best tech in the world but if you don't have the games you won't sell enough consoles. Gamers buy consoles to play games, not watch movies. I didn't bother to get the HD DVD player for my Xbox. Who cares?
I read an interesting article the other day in a gaming mag that was detailing how gaming programmers never reach the limits for the current generations of consoles because the next ones are rushed to the market. Basically the rush is always started by the companies who aren't winning the current console wars. They are eager to have another shot so they lead the next rush.
Also, there's a reason why gamers prefer the XBOX 360.( I purchased the XBox 360 Elite myself.) Xbox 360 has a MUCH better selection of games. Microsoft has Halo3 and Gears Of War. End of discussion. Try to find a better selling game than Halo3.
Also, XBOX Live is a fantastic online gaming community. You can log on at any time and play with people from around the world. I was playing Gears last night with some Spaniards and a French guy. Not much talking but great gaming. lol
Xbox 360 is the one to get for gaming. And trust me I'm not a big fan of Microsoft so if I purchased one it was with a bit of reluctance! lol
Now if you would like to purchase a PS3 to get a Blu Ray player at a good price, that's another story. But those types of buyers will not be enough to enable the PS3 to surpass Xbox 360 sales. No way. Not with the Blu-Ray/HD-DVD format wars still in progress.
The lack of game titles is really concerning. Is it because the system is 'new', or are the software developers having a difficult time writing games on this platform?
The RRoD just scares me away. AFAIK, MS is just setting aside money to repair and replace systems. I don't think they are correcting the design flaw. The titles on the 360 though are pretty good. Especially 1st person shooter.
I've not made up my mind completely but I'm leaning ps3. The BR player is kinda an added bonus.
For gaming PS3 is lacking. Xbox 360 titles kill PS3 titles.
For gaming PS3 is lacking. Xbox 360 titles kill PS3 titles.
xbox has more titles, but when a game is on both it is better on the PS3. Also, the PS3 has way nicer hardware than the 360 (I own both).
When you line up the start dates, the xbox and PS3 are running neck and neck:
http://vgchartz.com/hwcomps.php?cons...g3=All&align=1
xbox has more titles, but when a game is on both it is better on the PS3. Also, the PS3 has way nicer hardware than the 360 (I own both).
When you line up the start dates, the xbox and PS3 are running neck and neck:
http://vgchartz.com/hwcomps.php?cons...g3=All&align=1
But the best games are not available on both. Gears Of War and Halo are Xbox exclusive.
Toshiba: DVD Forum Hasn't Yet Approved Final 51 GB HD DVD After All
As it turned out, and as Toshiba's spokespersons may have only just now realized, the DVD Forum signed off on a preliminary specification, which may have been confused for the final specification because its version number is 1.9.
"We understand that the preliminary version (1.9) of the physical specifications for the triple-layer 51 GB HD DVD-ROM disc has been approved," said Toshiba's spokesperson today.
The spokesperson then added that it has not yet been determined whether current HD DVD players or recorders will be able to use the new format, which the headline of an official Toshiba statement given to BetaNews today is now calling "Trip-Layer." "Toshiba will study the performance of current HD DVD player/recorders with the disc after the standard receives final approval by the DVD Forum."
Heh. And Biteme was so sure that the standard was not only approved, it had already been released (as in "I thought hybrid three layer HD-DVD/DVD title already exists and have shown no issue with even 1st gen hardwares") . He was also dead sure that current players could handle it with just a minor firmware upgrade. Even assuming that's possible, Toshiba has already admitted there will be higher error rates on the third layer. Let's call it what it really is, shall we? It's not a 51GB disc. It's more like a 45 or so after you take out all the bad data.
Oh no.... I really hope it doesn't turn into BD+ or BD profile fiasco. That would probably force me to go on the side line.
Yeah, only the BDA makes promises it can't keep. Not like Toshiba and its 3 million players by the end of 2007. No, wait, didn't they downgrade to 2 million? At this point, it looks like they won't even make the one million mark.
But the best games are not available on both. Gears Of War and Halo are Xbox exclusive.
The "best game" depends on what you like, for me it is:
World of Warcraft: Mac
Bioshock: PC and 360
Elder scrolls: PC, xbox and PS3, better on PS3 than xbox
The games I am looking forward to the most are: Too Human (ps3), Conan (ps3) and Star Wars: Force Unleashed (360)
The "best game" depends on what you like, for me it is:
World of Warcraft: Mac
Bioshock: PC and 360
Elder scrolls: PC, xbox and PS3, better on PS3 than xbox
The games I am looking forward to the most are: Too Human (ps3), Conan (ps3) and Star Wars: Force Unleashed (360)
I agree that what you like is a matter of taste (and by the way, I think you have great tastes in games) BUT what makes a console maker money is having what MOST people like. And again...what outsells the Halo line in console gaming? In about 10 days Halo3 will set new records in units sold.
I'm not saying PS3's are trash. I am saying that I do not see their number of unit sold surpassing Xbox 360's numbers sold. That is what my first post was about. And that as a gamer I would easily recommend one over another to those who are trying to decide between the two.
I always thought that the PS3 is overkill on its capabilities. It doesn't make much sense to provide much more processing power than your competitor because at the end, game makers will only make one version of a game, then tweak it to run on each system. Therefore typically a 360/PS3 game graphic capabilities will max out the power of the weaker of the 2 systems.
Quoted for emphasis. I wholeheartedly agree.
Please take this elsewhere. 360 games have almost no relevance to the HD format war.
Agreed