Apple's next-gen Mac mini to get dual display support

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  • Reply 161 of 249
    wigginwiggin Posts: 2,265member
    I can't believe I"m going to let myself get sucked into the ongoing magsafe debate, but here goes...



    One simple little fact tells me that the mini will not use magsafe. Look at the picture here:



    http://www.apple.com/displays/features.html



    The connector is L shaped. How exactly would that work? Apple isn't going to put the port on the side of the mini, so it will be on the back. But in what orientation? They could put it along an edge, but then the cord is going to stick out from behind the mini, which would look ridiculous. So Apple won't do that. If they put it in the middle or oriented so the cable doesn't stick out like a rooster tail, it's going to block other ports on the back of the mini.



    Also, from this photo, it really doesn't look like the cable is long enough. Your laptop is going to be someplace close at hand because you will be coming and going with it. But a mini could be tucked away in a corner not near your display, but that cable length doesn't really allow that. So the current cable that ships with the Cinema Display really doesn't work for the mini.



    The cost-saving argument doesn't really work either. The current connector used by the mini is likely cheaper to produce than a magsafe connector. As for the other end where the transformer is, unless Apple makes drastic power-saving design changes, neither of the existing MB/MBP adaptors are high enough wattage, so Apple is going to have to design a new transformer anyway. They can't simply reuse the current MBP adaptor. A final note on cost savings, the laptop adaptors are designed to be small and portable. My guess is that because of that they are more expensive than a plain old brick style adaptor that can be hidden behind your desk where size doesn't matter.



    The ease with which a magsafe connector can become disconnected is also a strike against it for desktop use. There have been times that I've picked up my MBP not realizing it was plugged in. I didn't even feel the magsafe come loose until I heard it hit the floor (the end of the connector, that is). The notion that Apple would "rig a clip" is just silly and un-Apple-like.



    So it seems like the only reason folks are arguing that it will be a magasafe on the mini is so they can us it with the new LED Cinema display. There's just no other logical reason do use it on the mini. So to those folks, I'll offer a solution. Obviously Apple wouldn't sell a display with a three-headed connector (mDP, USB, power) that is only useful with laptops. What are we supposed to do, leave the power connector dangling unused? Also very un-Apple-like. So if you look at this photo, it appears that the connector is not hardwired into the Cinema display.



    So I suspect Apple will do one of two things. First, it could sell a cable that only has mDP and USB, no power. This would allow you to use the new display with a desktop Mac without an unused power connector dangling around. You could even even use it as a 2nd monitor for an iMac, for which there is no way the Cinema Display puts out enough power to run an iMac (or a Mac Pro, for that matter). In this case you would use the power adaptor that came with your mini to power it. The 2nd option is that Apple sells a cable that includes power for the mini, but with different connector on the mini end.



    Either way, since it would be silly to use magsafe on the mini for the reason stated above, and since Apple will need to sell you a new cable to use the Cinema Display with anything other than a MB/BMP anyway, they are free to use a simple, more secure design for the plug itself. There will be no advantages (and a few disadvantages) to using magsafe.



    Now can with end this never-ending debate of whether it will use magsafe and get back to the far more important issue of Firewire?
  • Reply 162 of 249
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by WIJG View Post


    A dumb question perhaps:

    Is there any chance that the new mini could have eSATA?



    It's fast and has room to grow beyond firewire, but it requires an external power source. So, the new mini could use the conventional power supply, ditch firewire, encourage users to buy the new monitor, then use the monitor's MagSafe power connection for eSATA peripherals...



    Whatever.



    There may be no need for MagSafe on the mini (other than cleanliness), but I don't see how it's a bad idea. The computer will need a power supply; the computer may as well come with a MagSafe adapter as opposed to a regular AC power brick. What's the difference? It's not as if the conventional connector is held in place all that securely as it is; add some kind of clip for insurance if deemed necessary.



    With notebooks being Apple cash-cows (and the suspected high-volume of mini sales, present and future) there may be an economy of scale for shipping the mini with a MagSafe power supply.



    Further, a mini that comes with a MagSafe adapter provides an incentive for the user with the new mini DisplayPort monitor to cash-in by selling the adapter that came with his/her computer. That would help the consumer offset the high margin on the Apple display.



    As even the current MacPro workstation lacks eSATA, I'm pretty sure the connector would not be found on Apple's lowest performer.
  • Reply 163 of 249
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Murphster View Post


    A magsafe power supply is designed to be easily removed from a laptop in case someone trips over the cable. It also unplugs itself very easily when using a macbook and the cable is snagged somewhere (usually on my couch) or the power cable is pulled to it's limit. It is great at what it does.



    But for a desktop computer/media server it would be madness to include such a feature. If I have to move my Mini to get to a cable or something behind it I certainly do not want the risk that the cable is snagged somewhere and thus suddenly lose all power to the Mini. Whatever you think of the power supply on the current Mini is certainly takes more force to remove than a Magsafe.



    Anyone who thinks that the new Mini might have a magsafe really is not thinking things through properly. It would be a stupid feature for Apple to include.



    They could do a magsafe connector but also include a clip to hold it in place. Have you ever seen the clip on the power cable for the Xserve. Holds it in place so it can't slip out.
  • Reply 164 of 249
    solipsismsolipsism Posts: 25,726member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by BradMacPro View Post


    They could do a magsafe connector but also include a clip to hold it in place. Have you ever seen the clip on the power cable for the Xserve. Holds it in place so it can't slip out.



    A clip of some sort to make sure the Magsafe is secure? That is just nonsense. We don't have the necessary clip technology to achieve such a monumentap feat. Besides that, you're overlooking the fact that having a big ass external brick sitting on your desktop or floor when you have a power cable sitting right behind your Mac Mini it the other two LED-CD cables plugged in is a status symbol. Think Different, not logically.
  • Reply 165 of 249
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Wiggin View Post


    I can't believe I"m going to let myself get sucked into the ongoing magsafe debate, but here goes...



    One simple little fact tells me that the mini will not use magsafe. Look at the picture here:



    http://www.apple.com/displays/features.html



    The connector is L shaped. How exactly would that work? Apple isn't going to put the port on the side of the mini, so it will be on the back. But in what orientation? They could put it along an edge, but then the cord is going to stick out from behind the mini, which would look ridiculous. So Apple won't do that. If they put it in the middle or oriented so the cable doesn't stick out like a rooster tail, it's going to block other ports on the back of the mini.



    Also, from this photo, it really doesn't look like the cable is long enough. Your laptop is going to be someplace close at hand because you will be coming and going with it. But a mini could be tucked away in a corner not near your display, but that cable length doesn't really allow that. So the current cable that ships with the Cinema Display really doesn't work for the mini.



    The cost-saving argument doesn't really work either. The current connector used by the mini is likely cheaper to produce than a magsafe connector. As for the other end where the transformer is, unless Apple makes drastic power-saving design changes, neither of the existing MB/MBP adaptors are high enough wattage, so Apple is going to have to design a new transformer anyway. They can't simply reuse the current MBP adaptor. A final note on cost savings, the laptop adaptors are designed to be small and portable. My guess is that because of that they are more expensive than a plain old brick style adaptor that can be hidden behind your desk where size doesn't matter.



    The ease with which a magsafe connector can become disconnected is also a strike against it for desktop use. There have been times that I've picked up my MBP not realizing it was plugged in. I didn't even feel the magsafe come loose until I heard it hit the floor (the end of the connector, that is). The notion that Apple would "rig a clip" is just silly and un-Apple-like.



    So it seems like the only reason folks are arguing that it will be a magasafe on the mini is so they can us it with the new LED Cinema display. There's just no other logical reason do use it on the mini. So to those folks, I'll offer a solution. Obviously Apple wouldn't sell a display with a three-headed connector (mDP, USB, power) that is only useful with laptops. What are we supposed to do, leave the power connector dangling unused? Also very un-Apple-like. So if you look at this photo, it appears that the connector is not hardwired into the Cinema display.



    So I suspect Apple will do one of two things. First, it could sell a cable that only has mDP and USB, no power. This would allow you to use the new display with a desktop Mac without an unused power connector dangling around. You could even even use it as a 2nd monitor for an iMac, for which there is no way the Cinema Display puts out enough power to run an iMac (or a Mac Pro, for that matter). In this case you would use the power adaptor that came with your mini to power it. The 2nd option is that Apple sells a cable that includes power for the mini, but with different connector on the mini end.



    Either way, since it would be silly to use magsafe on the mini for the reason stated above, and since Apple will need to sell you a new cable to use the Cinema Display with anything other than a MB/BMP anyway, they are free to use a simple, more secure design for the plug itself. There will be no advantages (and a few disadvantages) to using magsafe.



    Now can with end this never-ending debate of whether it will use magsafe and get back to the far more important issue of Firewire?



    I agree it is unlikely. However, it's a bit ridiculous that people keep making claims about inconvenience or impossibilities that don't exist.



    Block ports? Have you ever really seen the back of a Mac Mini or seen the size of a magsafe connector?



    Cable length? Seriously, this would be an issue for connecting a mini to the cinema display whether you use magsafe power or not, has nothing to do with this discussion. Given the size of the mini though I suspect many people wouldn't mind having it right next to the cinema display, especially when it would draw power from that display.



    Cost? There is no evidence that a mini couldn't use a magsafe connection without using an actual laptop power supply when independently powered. A connector is completely seperate from what actually supplies the power.



    All this being said, I agree it is probably not going to happen because there are likely many technical restrictions preventing this, but I've not seen any viable arguments against so far so maybe I'm wrong & we will see this happen after-all. I think it would be cool, long as you use your brain a little & understand that finding a way to secure a magsafe connector to a mini is a tiny feat for engineers.
  • Reply 166 of 249
    macxpressmacxpress Posts: 5,913member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by BradMacPro View Post


    As even the current MacPro workstation lacks eSATA, I'm pretty sure the connector would not be found on Apple's lowest performer.



    If they did do something that like it wouldn't be the first time its happened. Top of the line products such as the MacPro don't always get the latest and greatest first.
  • Reply 167 of 249
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by BradMacPro View Post


    Apple makes a Mini DisplayPort to VGA adapter for your analog projector. For example see http://www.macmall.com/macmall/shop/...mfg=MB572Z%2FA



    Wonderful, but I don't need VGA. S-video, composite, etc, are not supported with DP. Many people still use these connections.
  • Reply 168 of 249
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by macxpress View Post


    If they did do something that like it wouldn't be the first time its happened. Top of the line products such as the MacPro don't always get the latest and greatest first.



    eSATA would be a major plus.



    I don't expect it though, lowered expectations means I'm not carping when the new Mac mini is announced.



    And it looks like people have hacked eSATA on the Mac mini before;



    apple mac mini eSATA



    Looks like something I would do.
  • Reply 169 of 249
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by vitaflo View Post


    Wonderful, but I don't need VGA. S-video, composite, etc, are not supported with DP. Many people still use these connections.



    VGA, as an analog output, can usually be converted to other analog outputs pretty easily.
  • Reply 170 of 249
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by BradMacPro View Post


    They could do a magsafe connector but also include a clip to hold it in place.



    Another option would simply be to make the magsafe socket about 1/3 inch deeper. It's very easy to knock out the magsafe connector, 5 times more difficult to pull it directly out.



    That is quite simple - but doesn't help with the cinema display. Its magsafe has an L-bend on the power cord. This slightly thinner cable could be recessed into the side of a MacMini too, still supporting the head of the cable and MUCH harder to pull out even when you want to - but it may be more difficult to construct and less attractive.
  • Reply 171 of 249
    hillstoneshillstones Posts: 1,490member
    How many of you people actually own a Mac mini? Why get excited over a Mac that you wouldn't even consider buying?
  • Reply 172 of 249
    If the Mini update offers two full size drives, Nvidia graphics and a quad core processor, then this is truly the long awaited arrival of the xMac. And I predict it will sell even more units than the MacBook. It will be wildly popular.



    I will place my order on day one, I'll opt for two internal hard drives, and attach an external optical drive. I'm very excited - I've been waiting for this for more than two years. In retrospect, it was stupid to wait, but I've been anticipating that Apple would fill the hole in their lineup for ages. It sounds like the dream is about to become reality. If I was superstitious, I would not post this.



    ******



    Just for kicks, allow me to fantasize about a feature that the Mini almost certainly won't include, but which would be awesomely cool. How exciting would it be, if you could interconnect multiple Minis to act as a single computer? With Snow Leopard on the horizon, it seems that Apple would have the software to make this worthwhile. I don't know enough about the technologies to undersand the obstacles or the costs, but I haven't seen this idea mentioned, so I'm throwing it out there. Again, I'm not saying I think this will happen, I'm fantasizing about cool possibilities.
  • Reply 173 of 249
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by hillstones View Post


    How many of you people actually own a Mac mini? Why get excited over a Mac that you wouldn't even consider buying?



    I had a G5 Quad that died a few months ago. Can't afford anything right now except a Mac mini, otherwise it's no Mac for me, forevermore. Sad but true.
  • Reply 174 of 249
    sequitursequitur Posts: 1,910member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Dorotea View Post


    Just a note after doing some research - Monoprice.com is planning on releasing a MDP to HDMI adaptor by end of month (Jan 2009). Great place for all types of cables too.



    I couldn't find that on the Monoprice.com site. Where did you find it?

    thanks.
  • Reply 175 of 249
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by macxpress View Post


    If they did do something that like it wouldn't be the first time its happened. Top of the line products such as the MacPro don't always get the latest and greatest first.



    True enough, but Apple targets FW800 for the higher end products regardless of release schedule, and the same would be true of eSATA and as was stated earlier, eSATA is generally used by the higher end user. The highest end user would use a full size PCI card with hardware RAID capabilities and plain old eSATA would be used by software based RAID systems, perhaps in conjunction with the 4 internal drives in a Mac Pro.
  • Reply 176 of 249
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by vitaflo View Post


    Wonderful, but I don't need VGA. S-video, composite, etc, are not supported with DP. Many people still use these connections.



    Sorry, when you said analog projector, I assumed a data projector, not a TV projector. I'm familiar with data projectors with DVI or VGA inputs.
  • Reply 177 of 249
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by hillstones View Post


    How many of you people actually own a Mac mini? Why get excited over a Mac that you wouldn't even consider buying?



    I bought a G4 Mac mini for my father, so it's of just passing interest. I would not buy one myself, as I favor the Mac Pro with a hardware RAID 50 array for top performance. Just thought I could add to the conversation / speculation.
  • Reply 178 of 249
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by MacJello View Post


    <snip>

    Just for kicks, allow me to fantasize about a feature that the Mini almost certainly won't include, but which would be awesomely cool. How exciting would it be, if you could interconnect multiple Minis to act as a single computer? With Snow Leopard on the horizon, it seems that Apple would have the software to make this worthwhile. I don't know enough about the technologies to undersand the obstacles or the costs, but I haven't seen this idea mentioned, so I'm throwing it out there. Again, I'm not saying I think this will happen, I'm fantasizing about cool possibilities.



    see http://www.apple.com/server/macosx/t...ogy/xgrid.html



    Not a consumer client software function, but it is out there.
  • Reply 179 of 249
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by sequitur View Post


    I couldn't find that on the Monoprice.com site. Where did you find it?

    thanks.



    A little google goes a long way



    http://www.macyourself.com/2008/12/1...-adapter-soon/



    not on the monoprice.com web site. By the way, they have great prices there.
  • Reply 180 of 249
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by hillstones View Post


    How many of you people actually own a Mac mini? Why get excited over a Mac that you wouldn't even consider buying?



    I have had a Mini under my TV since it was first released, since replaced with an Intel one a couple of years ago. It died a few months ago and have been waiting for a replacement (my hacked Apple TV has done a decent enough job of standing in short term)



    I am still only buying however if there is Blu-Ray or a clear indication that the drive can be upgraded to Blu-Ray as soon as OSX supports it.
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