I don't have an inferiority complex. Its the fact that I do not enjoy being in an environment where people like to trash talk stuff without any factual basis. I am a user of both products. I don't bash Macs or OSX and I don't bash Windows. They both have their issues and I don't mind talking about them or how to work around them. They are both excellent products.
I didn't say my Dell was better. I said my daughter's MacBook wasn't better. They are basically equivalent. The are both Core 2 Duo Intel with 2 gig of ram 250 Gig hard disks. Hers does have the Intel graphics while my Dell is ATI. It's not a knock against the Mac but the integrated Intel graphics are not as good as ATI or NVidia no matter if it's a Mac or a Dell. The only feature that her Macbook has that I would like on my Dell is the magnetic power connection.
In my family I don't spend much time fixing either. If I include the Macbook we have 6 laptops, 5 windows desktops, 3 windows servers, 1 linux server, and one Mac mini.
The majority of my relatives are Windows users, only a few use Macs.
There is nothing requiring it to be Windows Mobile and if you notice you will soon see that they will be switching.
I personally like Windows Mobile and have been a Pocket PC user for years.
The free are just as good and with a few common sense precautions there isn't much need of it on Windows either. The big name Anti-Virus companies are way too intrusive on systems and cause there own share of problems.
I'm a user for 27+ years no virus yet for me.
It's statements like this that just proves the point of the Microsoft commercials and my comment about my experience in Apple stores. As soon as someone finds out that I use Windows, and Windows Mobile. It doesn't matter that I am also a Mac and iPod user.
Uh huh. And you just happened to be motivated to register on an Apple enthusiast site, concurrent with and in order to basically repeat the latest MS ad campaign points, even though you don't really like such environments.
27 years and no viruses? Bullshit. You're a shill.
If Kay or any Microsoft employee owns a single product that is more expensive than the cheapest example that does the same thing, they have completely invalidated this report (and much of their marketing strategy recently). This includes their brand of cars, furnishings, clothes, and food. They would have us believe that Microsoft is an ascetic paradise.
So why aren't they all running Linux if that's the game they want to play?
For that kind of money I can get a Mini, aTV, PS3, and Rock Band 2.
The C2D AIOs are about the same price as the iMacs at the lower end:
20" Sony JS = $1,099-$1,299
20" Apple iMac = $1,199
The C2D AIO are higher at the top end but have Blu-Ray.
24" Sony LV = $1,600-$2,549
24" Apple iMac = $1,799-$2,199
Hard to argue that Sony is any cheaper than Apple. Most are around the same price when you compare the same segments to each other. You can't directly compare the 13" MacBook against the 13" Z because they occupy different segments in the two lineups. The Z is much higher end. Just like you can't compare the CS against the MBP. They do have different model philosophies but equivalent machines are about the same price in both lineups.
So even for notebooks they tend toward the same pricing once you sort out the differences. Sony has Blu-Ray and Apple has OSX as their selling points. Thus far, it has worked out better for Apple than Sony.
You forget to mention that those two tuners are cablecard tuners which are a complete rippoff because Cable Labs (or whatever the name) makes them be that way. Those things would sell at about $200 a piece if not more. Again, Apple doesn't compete in the home theatre area directly (Though it sorta does with the AppleTV).
If you look at the areas it does compete directly, such as notebooks and you look at sizes 13 to 18" (Since Sony doesn't have a 17" but does have 16" and 18" 16:9 displays) you will see as I pointed out that the prices are cheaper and you can get graphic/processors just as good as what Apple offers but at a lower price point. Alot of them come base with Intel Graphics but can be upgraded for $100-200 to nVidia or ATI. The one in this advert which is 16.4" comes default with ATI 3650 which benchmarks within a few points of the nVidia 9650 in the Macbook Pro.
As for reliability... I know several people with Sony laptops and desktop with none to very little issues. As far as the Battery issue, its huge but doesn't mean they fail at everything else. Just like the nVidia 8x series was a huge failure but we haven't heard any major issues with the 9x series.
Pixels on a screen.. maybe 1600x900 would be too much. I do know however that 1280x800 is a bit to little for me on a 13"... I wouldn't mind more. How much more, I couldn't tell. I know my Sony had the same 1280x800 on a 11" screen and i was fine with that.
The desktop are more about the same price. But my point has ALWAYS been about notebooks (which is a bigger market) and there EVERY model is cheaper if you count out the 11" and 13.1" with 1600x900 display. Sure they are more consumer orientated. But taking the most expensive Macbook Pro which is 17" and compare the 16.4 FW and you will see its much cheaper:
Apple Macbook Pro 17" vs Sony Vaio FW
Intel Core2Duo 2.66 | Intel Core2Duo 2.66
4GB DDR3 | 4GB DDR2
320 GB HDD | 320 GB HDD
NVIDIA 9600 GT 512 | ATI HD 3650 512
1920x1200 | 1920x1080
$2799.00 | $1399.99
The Sony is 5.5 hours battery... You can get a large size battery that is 8 hours.
Apple Macbook 13" vs Sony Vaio SR
1280x800 LED | 1280x800 LED | 1280x800 LED | 1280x800 LED
NVIDIA 9400M | NVIDIA 9400M | ATI HD 3470 | ATI HD 3470
$1299 | $1599 | $1149.99 | $1279.99
As you... Sony is cheaper. Benchmarks would see barely a difference between DDR2 and DDR3 in these configurations. In fact the old White Macbook 2.4 DDR2 showed some better results in some categories than the new Aluminum 2.4 DDR3 according to Macworld.
The funny thing, as idiotic as the adverts are they have won on two points. Number one, everyone including every apple blog/forum is talking about them. I mean, its great viral marketing to keep discussing them.
I don't see how it's a "win" for people to be talking about the ads if they are generally saying they are a crock. People talked like crazy about the awful Gates/Seinfeld adds too, was that also a 'win"?
Well, I have not read all comments so maybe somebody already made this point.
It seems to me everybody here is jumping at the defense of Apple and how unfair the comparison is, and I agree with most of that, and the comparison is unfair.
Also let me say, that my main machine is and for the foreseeable future always will be a Mac.
But I think there are 2 big reasons not to buy a Mac.
First if I want a big Laptop screen i.e. bigger than 13", I have to spend over $1,500 with Apple.
Which is ridiculous when I can get 15" PC Laptops for less than $500.
Second Gaming, if I want a gaming Computer, I just have to get a Windows PC, its not even possible for me to use Bootcamp, because for me a Gaming PC, should have an awesome Graphics Card when I buy it, which is not even possible with the Mac Pro, and a Gaming PC should be upgradable, which can only be done with the Mac Pro, which is a bit expensive.
But do I think Apple is wrong?
Well yes and no, I don't think Apple is aiming at the gaming Market and they are fine with me buying a PC or Gaming Console.
Also when you do a Hardware comparison, of Macs to PCs, they are usually about the same Price, maybe Apple a bit more, which is fine hey I get OS X and a computer that looks just awesome.
But this is not true for Laptops, I haven't done an exact comparison in a while, but usually, you can get the same or better Laptops hardware wise, even from Alienware, which are bloody expensive and also carry a bit of a premium tag.
And the only disadvantage about Alienware is, they are ugly (to me), and no OS X.
For me that means for now, buying Laptops from other Computer Makers for my mobile needs.
As I can live without Mac OS X on the road using Ubuntu or Vista.
Thousands of $$ dumped on WinMo devices here over the years. I was so happy to dump them all when the iPhone debuted. Can you imagine, a hand-held web browser that's actually good for something?
How do you know?
I don't really use my Windows Mobile for browsing, but when I do I use Opera Mini. I like the Pocket PC because of all the software that I can get for it, the software that I depend on, and the fact that I can easily write quick programs on the device itself. I think the iPhone is great, but it's not for me. I did have converged device for a while, but I went back to a basic phone and a Pocket PC.
I know I don't have virus's because I install and run anti-virus software on one of my servers about twice a year and scan all my drives.
I'm guessing the shill, er author, left out any mention of resale value.
Or bundled app value. We have several individuals in our organization that use iMovie to create some great video content & my brother in-law has done a lot of music production inside garageband. Granted neither is a pro app but definitely beyond anything you get for the same price on Windows.
Oh, & I'm not sure how I understand it being a "tax" when you pay more for a laptop made of higher grade components. They compare internal specs but have 0 comparison of external or structural components. We recently had an individual drop a MacBook Pro Unibody off the back of a desk onto a concrete floor (probably 3 - 4 ft). Barely made a dent. If he hadn't told me it had been dropped I never would have noticed the slight scratches! We paid just over 2,000 for his MacBook Pro & a similarly rigid & resilient Panasonic tough-book runs about 2 - 3,000.
These false comparisons are extremely frustrating, they are counter productive to technological advances because they trick the populous in buying the same old thing.
I bought a Mac but I don't consider the extra cost an Apple Tax, I consider it an investment in the future. If Microsoft wants to compete they need to do more innovating & less scheming.
Uh huh. And you just happened to be motivated to register on an Apple enthusiast site, concurrent with and in order to basically repeat the latest MS ad campaign points, even though you don't really like such environments.
27 years and no viruses? Bullshit. You're a shill.
I registered so I could reply to this post after I read the rant about the latest Microsoft ad. It seemed ridiculous to me to complain about them. I think they are doing what they should be doing, just like the excellent, funny, but less then truthful I'm a Mac ads.
Even though most of my time is spent using Windows, I am also an Apple enthusiast. I am currently reading and enjoying the excellent book by Amit Singh on the internals of OSX.
I am definitely not a shill and no Bullshit on the virus. I have received virus's in my e-mail, but I don't run them.
I personally get a kick out of buying something at the Apple store and as the sales clerk is knocking something about Windows I ask them how they like using Windows Mobile on their handheld point of sale device.
Then you've heard what a PIA the devices are. Apple staff will readily tell you a high percentage break down, that frequently the staff have to ask to borrow another's POS (point of sale or piece of ****) device, and that activating the devices is a tedious process.
I registered so I could reply to this post after I read the rant about the latest Microsoft ad. It seemed ridiculous to me to complain about them. I think they are doing what they should be doing, just like the excellent, funny, but less then truthful I'm a Mac ads.
You obviously haven't looked at the "white paper". You should. You'd have a much better understanding of the negative reaction.
Perfect summary of my reaction. I definitely think you pay a premium for mac, but the "white paper" is so blatantly dishonest, ...While I agree with that, it should be noted that the "white paper" makes comparisons to the old mac configurations that are no longer shipping - the current models have more than is listed in the comparisons.
...You should take a look at the "white paper". It is clearly not.
I don't see anything dishonest in the white paper. I don't like the way it's written, I think it should just lay down the facts instead. I don't expect a white paper to be so blatantly biased. I believe it clouds the issue to bring Mobile Me vs Mesh into the comparison.
The details specified are a moving target. Most of the details mentioned have probably changed specs since it was written. I've seen people complain about prices mentioned in the white paper, but they are the prices. Sure you can get discounts on any the things mentioned. The bottom line no matter how you compare them you can buy similar hardware for less money then what Apple is providing.
Even so, it is certainly reasonable to pay more money for the fully integrated solution that Apple provides. Most people I know that buy Macs, like that about them. They don't want to have to worry about what sound card or video card to get, or if software they buy will work with the hardware they have.
I don't see anything dishonest in the white paper.
You don't think listing Office and Quicken as mac expenses but not on the PC is dishonest? It's not free on the PC. Listing mobileme on the mac side but nothing similar on the PC side (especially when mobileme runs on the PC and the cheaper PC options mostly run on mac)? Complaining that the mac laptop has no keyboard and mouse (huh)? iLife upgrade but nothing equivalent listed for the PC at all? Ignoring mac hardware advantages like laptop webcam? Picking more expensive third party units like wireless router on the mac side when the mac can use the same as the PC with no problems? Doing comparisons where the PC has an inferior processor instead of comparing the version that has the same as the mac?
You don't think any of those things are dishonest at all?
And I find it completely ridiculous that for a family with two kids running Office and Quicken they'd pick the MAC PRO as the desktop model to compare instead of the iMac or even the mini. Gee, you think if you pick the most expensive pro model on one side and a consumer machine on the other there won't be a difference in price?
You don't think listing Office and Quicken as mac expenses but not on the PC is dishonest? It's not free on the PC. Listing mobileme on the mac side but nothing similar on the PC side (especially when mobileme runs on the PC and the cheaper PC options mostly run on mac)? Complaining that the mac laptop has no keyboard and mouse (huh)? iLife upgrade but nothing equivalent listed for the PC at all? Ignoring mac hardware advantages like laptop webcam? Picking more expensive third party units like wireless router on the mac side when the mac can use the same as the PC with no problems? Doing comparisons where the PC has an inferior processor instead of comparing the version that has the same as the mac?
You don't think any of those things are dishonest at all?
And I find it completely ridiculous that for a family with two kids running Office and Quicken they'd pick the MAC PRO as the desktop model to compare instead of the iMac or even the mini. Gee, you think if you pick the most expensive pro model on one side and a consumer machine on the other there won't be a difference in price?
This question was relating to not getting viruses. Firefox
Quote:
Originally Posted by minderbinder
You don't think listing Office and Quicken as mac expenses but not on the PC is dishonest? It's not free on the PC. Listing mobileme on the mac side but nothing similar on the PC side (especially when mobileme runs on the PC and the cheaper PC options mostly run on mac)?
It seems like you are nitpicking. The White Paper is geared towards Windows users switching to Macs. The comparison is based on someone who already owns Office/Quicken and doesn't need to buy it if they buy a new Windows machine. As also explained in the White Paper their synching scenario has them using the free Windows Live/Mesh.
Comments
I don't have an inferiority complex. Its the fact that I do not enjoy being in an environment where people like to trash talk stuff without any factual basis. I am a user of both products. I don't bash Macs or OSX and I don't bash Windows. They both have their issues and I don't mind talking about them or how to work around them. They are both excellent products.
I didn't say my Dell was better. I said my daughter's MacBook wasn't better. They are basically equivalent. The are both Core 2 Duo Intel with 2 gig of ram 250 Gig hard disks. Hers does have the Intel graphics while my Dell is ATI. It's not a knock against the Mac but the integrated Intel graphics are not as good as ATI or NVidia no matter if it's a Mac or a Dell. The only feature that her Macbook has that I would like on my Dell is the magnetic power connection.
In my family I don't spend much time fixing either. If I include the Macbook we have 6 laptops, 5 windows desktops, 3 windows servers, 1 linux server, and one Mac mini.
The majority of my relatives are Windows users, only a few use Macs.
There is nothing requiring it to be Windows Mobile and if you notice you will soon see that they will be switching.
I personally like Windows Mobile and have been a Pocket PC user for years.
The free are just as good and with a few common sense precautions there isn't much need of it on Windows either. The big name Anti-Virus companies are way too intrusive on systems and cause there own share of problems.
I'm a user for 27+ years no virus yet for me.
It's statements like this that just proves the point of the Microsoft commercials and my comment about my experience in Apple stores. As soon as someone finds out that I use Windows, and Windows Mobile. It doesn't matter that I am also a Mac and iPod user.
Uh huh. And you just happened to be motivated to register on an Apple enthusiast site, concurrent with and in order to basically repeat the latest MS ad campaign points, even though you don't really like such environments.
27 years and no viruses? Bullshit. You're a shill.
If Kay or any Microsoft employee owns a single product that is more expensive than the cheapest example that does the same thing, they have completely invalidated this report (and much of their marketing strategy recently). This includes their brand of cars, furnishings, clothes, and food. They would have us believe that Microsoft is an ascetic paradise.
So why aren't they all running Linux if that's the game they want to play?
How hard is it to look under desktops on Sony Style? Home Theater PC:
$1,699 for a 2.1Ghz C2D, 4GB RAM, 500GB HDD, 8400M GT GPU, Dual-TV tuners, and Blu-Ray.
http://www.sonystyle.com/webapp/wcs/...tegoryId=30348
For that kind of money I can get a Mini, aTV, PS3, and Rock Band 2.
The C2D AIOs are about the same price as the iMacs at the lower end:
20" Sony JS = $1,099-$1,299
20" Apple iMac = $1,199
The C2D AIO are higher at the top end but have Blu-Ray.
24" Sony LV = $1,600-$2,549
24" Apple iMac = $1,799-$2,199
Hard to argue that Sony is any cheaper than Apple. Most are around the same price when you compare the same segments to each other. You can't directly compare the 13" MacBook against the 13" Z because they occupy different segments in the two lineups. The Z is much higher end. Just like you can't compare the CS against the MBP. They do have different model philosophies but equivalent machines are about the same price in both lineups.
So even for notebooks they tend toward the same pricing once you sort out the differences. Sony has Blu-Ray and Apple has OSX as their selling points. Thus far, it has worked out better for Apple than Sony.
You forget to mention that those two tuners are cablecard tuners which are a complete rippoff because Cable Labs (or whatever the name) makes them be that way. Those things would sell at about $200 a piece if not more. Again, Apple doesn't compete in the home theatre area directly (Though it sorta does with the AppleTV).
If you look at the areas it does compete directly, such as notebooks and you look at sizes 13 to 18" (Since Sony doesn't have a 17" but does have 16" and 18" 16:9 displays) you will see as I pointed out that the prices are cheaper and you can get graphic/processors just as good as what Apple offers but at a lower price point. Alot of them come base with Intel Graphics but can be upgraded for $100-200 to nVidia or ATI. The one in this advert which is 16.4" comes default with ATI 3650 which benchmarks within a few points of the nVidia 9650 in the Macbook Pro.
As for reliability... I know several people with Sony laptops and desktop with none to very little issues. As far as the Battery issue, its huge but doesn't mean they fail at everything else. Just like the nVidia 8x series was a huge failure but we haven't heard any major issues with the 9x series.
Pixels on a screen.. maybe 1600x900 would be too much. I do know however that 1280x800 is a bit to little for me on a 13"... I wouldn't mind more. How much more, I couldn't tell. I know my Sony had the same 1280x800 on a 11" screen and i was fine with that.
The desktop are more about the same price. But my point has ALWAYS been about notebooks (which is a bigger market) and there EVERY model is cheaper if you count out the 11" and 13.1" with 1600x900 display. Sure they are more consumer orientated. But taking the most expensive Macbook Pro which is 17" and compare the 16.4 FW and you will see its much cheaper:
Apple Macbook Pro 17" vs Sony Vaio FW
Intel Core2Duo 2.66 | Intel Core2Duo 2.66
4GB DDR3 | 4GB DDR2
320 GB HDD | 320 GB HDD
NVIDIA 9600 GT 512 | ATI HD 3650 512
1920x1200 | 1920x1080
$2799.00 | $1399.99
The Sony is 5.5 hours battery... You can get a large size battery that is 8 hours.
Apple Macbook 13" vs Sony Vaio SR
1280x800 LED | 1280x800 LED | 1280x800 LED | 1280x800 LED
Intel Core2Duo 2.0 | Intel Core2Duo 2.4 | Intel Core2Duo 2.0 | Intel Core2Duo 2.4
2GB DDR3 | 2GB DDR3 | 2GB DDR2 | 2GB DDR2
160GB HDD | 250GB HDD | 160GB HDD | 250GB HDD
NVIDIA 9400M | NVIDIA 9400M | ATI HD 3470 | ATI HD 3470
$1299 | $1599 | $1149.99 | $1279.99
As you... Sony is cheaper. Benchmarks would see barely a difference between DDR2 and DDR3 in these configurations. In fact the old White Macbook 2.4 DDR2 showed some better results in some categories than the new Aluminum 2.4 DDR3 according to Macworld.
The funny thing, as idiotic as the adverts are they have won on two points. Number one, everyone including every apple blog/forum is talking about them. I mean, its great viral marketing to keep discussing them.
I don't see how it's a "win" for people to be talking about the ads if they are generally saying they are a crock. People talked like crazy about the awful Gates/Seinfeld adds too, was that also a 'win"?
It seems to me everybody here is jumping at the defense of Apple and how unfair the comparison is, and I agree with most of that, and the comparison is unfair.
Also let me say, that my main machine is and for the foreseeable future always will be a Mac.
But I think there are 2 big reasons not to buy a Mac.
First if I want a big Laptop screen i.e. bigger than 13", I have to spend over $1,500 with Apple.
Which is ridiculous when I can get 15" PC Laptops for less than $500.
Second Gaming, if I want a gaming Computer, I just have to get a Windows PC, its not even possible for me to use Bootcamp, because for me a Gaming PC, should have an awesome Graphics Card when I buy it, which is not even possible with the Mac Pro, and a Gaming PC should be upgradable, which can only be done with the Mac Pro, which is a bit expensive.
But do I think Apple is wrong?
Well yes and no, I don't think Apple is aiming at the gaming Market and they are fine with me buying a PC or Gaming Console.
Also when you do a Hardware comparison, of Macs to PCs, they are usually about the same Price, maybe Apple a bit more, which is fine hey I get OS X and a computer that looks just awesome.
But this is not true for Laptops, I haven't done an exact comparison in a while, but usually, you can get the same or better Laptops hardware wise, even from Alienware, which are bloody expensive and also carry a bit of a premium tag.
And the only disadvantage about Alienware is, they are ugly (to me), and no OS X.
For me that means for now, buying Laptops from other Computer Makers for my mobile needs.
As I can live without Mac OS X on the road using Ubuntu or Vista.
Thousands of $$ dumped on WinMo devices here over the years. I was so happy to dump them all when the iPhone debuted. Can you imagine, a hand-held web browser that's actually good for something?
How do you know?
I don't really use my Windows Mobile for browsing, but when I do I use Opera Mini. I like the Pocket PC because of all the software that I can get for it, the software that I depend on, and the fact that I can easily write quick programs on the device itself. I think the iPhone is great, but it's not for me. I did have converged device for a while, but I went back to a basic phone and a Pocket PC.
I know I don't have virus's because I install and run anti-virus software on one of my servers about twice a year and scan all my drives.
I'm guessing the shill, er author, left out any mention of resale value.
Or bundled app value. We have several individuals in our organization that use iMovie to create some great video content & my brother in-law has done a lot of music production inside garageband. Granted neither is a pro app but definitely beyond anything you get for the same price on Windows.
Oh, & I'm not sure how I understand it being a "tax" when you pay more for a laptop made of higher grade components. They compare internal specs but have 0 comparison of external or structural components. We recently had an individual drop a MacBook Pro Unibody off the back of a desk onto a concrete floor (probably 3 - 4 ft). Barely made a dent. If he hadn't told me it had been dropped I never would have noticed the slight scratches! We paid just over 2,000 for his MacBook Pro & a similarly rigid & resilient Panasonic tough-book runs about 2 - 3,000.
These false comparisons are extremely frustrating, they are counter productive to technological advances because they trick the populous in buying the same old thing.
I bought a Mac but I don't consider the extra cost an Apple Tax, I consider it an investment in the future. If Microsoft wants to compete they need to do more innovating & less scheming.
Uh huh. And you just happened to be motivated to register on an Apple enthusiast site, concurrent with and in order to basically repeat the latest MS ad campaign points, even though you don't really like such environments.
27 years and no viruses? Bullshit. You're a shill.
I registered so I could reply to this post after I read the rant about the latest Microsoft ad. It seemed ridiculous to me to complain about them. I think they are doing what they should be doing, just like the excellent, funny, but less then truthful I'm a Mac ads.
Even though most of my time is spent using Windows, I am also an Apple enthusiast. I am currently reading and enjoying the excellent book by Amit Singh on the internals of OSX.
I am definitely not a shill and no Bullshit on the virus. I have received virus's in my e-mail, but I don't run them.
I personally get a kick out of buying something at the Apple store and as the sales clerk is knocking something about Windows I ask them how they like using Windows Mobile on their handheld point of sale device.
Then you've heard what a PIA the devices are. Apple staff will readily tell you a high percentage break down, that frequently the staff have to ask to borrow another's POS (point of sale or piece of ****) device, and that activating the devices is a tedious process.
I have received virus's in my e-mail, but I don't run them.
That's what autorun is for. You've not even inserted a Sony audio CD in your computer?
That's what autorun is for. You've not even inserted a Sony audio CD in your computer?
I don't allow programs to automatically run when devices are mounted.
I registered so I could reply to this post after I read the rant about the latest Microsoft ad. It seemed ridiculous to me to complain about them. I think they are doing what they should be doing, just like the excellent, funny, but less then truthful I'm a Mac ads.
You obviously haven't looked at the "white paper". You should. You'd have a much better understanding of the negative reaction.
WINDOWS 7 + OFFICE 14 + WINMO 7 is going to rock your world.
The wow starts sometime next year..
Perfect summary of my reaction. I definitely think you pay a premium for mac, but the "white paper" is so blatantly dishonest, ...While I agree with that, it should be noted that the "white paper" makes comparisons to the old mac configurations that are no longer shipping - the current models have more than is listed in the comparisons.
...You should take a look at the "white paper". It is clearly not.
I don't see anything dishonest in the white paper. I don't like the way it's written, I think it should just lay down the facts instead. I don't expect a white paper to be so blatantly biased. I believe it clouds the issue to bring Mobile Me vs Mesh into the comparison.
The details specified are a moving target. Most of the details mentioned have probably changed specs since it was written. I've seen people complain about prices mentioned in the white paper, but they are the prices. Sure you can get discounts on any the things mentioned. The bottom line no matter how you compare them you can buy similar hardware for less money then what Apple is providing.
Even so, it is certainly reasonable to pay more money for the fully integrated solution that Apple provides. Most people I know that buy Macs, like that about them. They don't want to have to worry about what sound card or video card to get, or if software they buy will work with the hardware they have.
I don't see anything dishonest in the white paper.
You don't think listing Office and Quicken as mac expenses but not on the PC is dishonest? It's not free on the PC. Listing mobileme on the mac side but nothing similar on the PC side (especially when mobileme runs on the PC and the cheaper PC options mostly run on mac)? Complaining that the mac laptop has no keyboard and mouse (huh)? iLife upgrade but nothing equivalent listed for the PC at all? Ignoring mac hardware advantages like laptop webcam? Picking more expensive third party units like wireless router on the mac side when the mac can use the same as the PC with no problems? Doing comparisons where the PC has an inferior processor instead of comparing the version that has the same as the mac?
You don't think any of those things are dishonest at all?
And I find it completely ridiculous that for a family with two kids running Office and Quicken they'd pick the MAC PRO as the desktop model to compare instead of the iMac or even the mini. Gee, you think if you pick the most expensive pro model on one side and a consumer machine on the other there won't be a difference in price?
One of the most recent iPhone ads shows an iPhone being used by a person with a small
business entering a credit card purchase into their iPhone. The app might not be adequate
for use in an Apple store, but it shows that Apple is not against the concept.
http://movies.apple.com/media/us/iph...06_848x480.mov
Guess I was wrong.
I'm a user for 27+ years no virus yet for me.
What browser do you use by default?
You don't think listing Office and Quicken as mac expenses but not on the PC is dishonest? It's not free on the PC. Listing mobileme on the mac side but nothing similar on the PC side (especially when mobileme runs on the PC and the cheaper PC options mostly run on mac)? Complaining that the mac laptop has no keyboard and mouse (huh)? iLife upgrade but nothing equivalent listed for the PC at all? Ignoring mac hardware advantages like laptop webcam? Picking more expensive third party units like wireless router on the mac side when the mac can use the same as the PC with no problems? Doing comparisons where the PC has an inferior processor instead of comparing the version that has the same as the mac?
You don't think any of those things are dishonest at all?
And I find it completely ridiculous that for a family with two kids running Office and Quicken they'd pick the MAC PRO as the desktop model to compare instead of the iMac or even the mini. Gee, you think if you pick the most expensive pro model on one side and a consumer machine on the other there won't be a difference in price?
I couldn't agree more.
What browser do you use by default?
This question was relating to not getting viruses. Firefox
You don't think listing Office and Quicken as mac expenses but not on the PC is dishonest? It's not free on the PC. Listing mobileme on the mac side but nothing similar on the PC side (especially when mobileme runs on the PC and the cheaper PC options mostly run on mac)?
It seems like you are nitpicking. The White Paper is geared towards Windows users switching to Macs. The comparison is based on someone who already owns Office/Quicken and doesn't need to buy it if they buy a new Windows machine. As also explained in the White Paper their synching scenario has them using the free Windows Live/Mesh.