While a Vista machine was the LAST one to get hacked!
OSX is rather easy to hack its been proven time and time again. Also in spite of Apples best efforts its rather easy to install on a PC with little to no effort.
Whats really funny is when Apple makes a product like the iPhone that is acutally popular it gets hacked pretty much daily. They can't keep people from jailbreaking the phone and can't even keep the Pre from syncing with itunes.
OSX is farily safe from viruses because hackers don't bother trying to hack something that only has a single digit market share, why bother. Safari is a joke when it comes to being secure and so is the iPhone.
What exactly happened to make you such a bitter person?
Whats really funny is when Apple makes a product like the iPhone that is acutally popular it gets hacked pretty much daily. They can't keep people from jailbreaking the phone and can't even keep the Pre from syncing with itunes.
OSX is farily safe from viruses because hackers don't bother trying to hack something that only has a single digit market share, why bother. Safari is a joke when it comes to being secure and so is the iPhone.
Sorry my mistake that was 2008 Pwn 2 Own that it took 2 minutes to hack the Mac.
In 2009 Pwn 2 Own it only took a few SECONDS to hack the Mac!!!!
What exactly happened to make you such a bitter person?
Try not to use smoke and mirrors to avoid answering a question you know you can't answer. Its not being bitter when your pointing out the truth.
The iPhone security is poor and OSX can easily be hacked and installed on a PC. Its not like we all dont know these are facts.
Being the fanboi that you are you only want to bash companies like Microsoft but get all upset when you know Apple has the same kinds of issues. You and Quadra should be roomates.
You’re not exactly being forthcoming here. As I recall, Charlie Miller came in with an exploit that he found and had not reported. He specifically did it on the MacBook because it was a better prize, hence why it was hacked first.
He setup a site that requires the user to click on the link to have the exploit work and it’s not an exploit of OS X but of Safari. No one was able to hack any of the machines without going to a specific site. IE8, Safari and Firefox were all hacked during the competition. That means Safari on Windows, Firefox on Windows, OS X or Linux, or IE8 on Windows all have a vulnerability that allow access to the user account if you click on a specific link.
Any connection you make to the internet is a potential security risk. No OS or browser or plugin is immune. The problem with these contests is that they are setup to push people to hack Macs and they don’t actually resolve any real world problems with security. Windows has historically had virus problem from the way programs are run. *nix is inherently more secure from the ground up, but they are far from immune.
You?re not exactly being forthcoming here. As I recall, Charlie Miller came in with an exploit that he found and had not reported. He specifically did it on the MacBook because it was a better prize, hence why it was hacked first.
He setup a site that requires the user to click on the link to have the exploit work and it?s not an exploit of OS X but of Safari. No one was able to hack any of the machines without going to a specific site. IE8, Safari and Firefox were all hacked during the competition.
Any connection you make to the internet is a potential security risk. No OS or browser or plugin is immune. The problem with these contests is that they are setup to push people to hack Macs and they don?t actually resolve any real world problems with security. Windows has historically had virus problem from the way programs are run. *nix is inherently more secure from the ground up, but they are far from immune.
No Charlie reported it to Apple. It was the SAME Safari exploit used the previous year.
That is like saying MS is not responsible for security for IE...yet it comes bundled with the OS each company produces........ A fully patched Mac was hacked FIRST before the Vista machine and the Ubuntu machine was not hacked within the allotted time frame.
This was a known Safari exploit just like there are known exploits for IE.....
Sorry my mistake that was 2008 Pwn 2 Own that it took 2 minutes to hack the Mac.
Yet, Macs (and, un-jailbroken iPhones) just simply don't have the malware problems that Windows does. So, while you may have an academic point, you don't really have a point.
What you do have is a hostility problem, but, lashing out here isn't going to make you feel any better about yourself.
No Charlie reported it to Apple. It was the SAME Safari exploit used the previous year.
That is like saying MS is not responsible for security for IE...yet it comes bundled with the OS each company produces........ A fully patched Mac was hacked FIRST before the Vista machine and the Ubuntu machine was not hacked within the allotted time frame.
This was a known Safari exploit just like there are known exploits for IE.....
Mea culpa! Same hack known for a year and no one tried to use it. On that point Apple really has let their consumer base down. My other points still stand. It was a browser hack, not an OS X hack and all browsers were hacked.
Yet, Macs (and, un-jailbroken iPhones) just simply don't have the malware problems that Windows does. So, while you may have an academic point, you don't really have a point.
What you do have is a hostility problem, but, lashing out here isn't going to make you feel any better about yourself.
Oh I feel great about myself. But thanks for your concern! :-)
I am not trying to bash Apple or the Mac. If you read my posts from other topics and threads you will see I am not a negative person. I love Apple products. I own several Macs and so does my kids.
I was just replying to the general statement that someone made about Windows being vulnerable to viruses and being less secure than the Mac.
Here is another excerpt from the Charlie Miller interview after Pwn 2 Own 2009 and the link to the full interview at the end of the quote.
It?s really simple. Safari on the Mac is easier to exploit. The things that Windows do to make it harder (for an exploit to work), Macs don?t do. Hacking into Macs is so much easier. You don?t have to jump through hoops and deal with all the anti-exploit mitigations you?d find in Windows.
It?s more about the operating system than the (target) program. Firefox on Mac is pretty easy too. The underlying OS doesn?t have anti-exploit stuff built into it.
Its not being bitter when your pointing out the truth.
The two are not mutually exclusive, they aren't even related. But, it's an interesting sort of rationalization about yourself that you display. Still, while there are some posters, totally lacking in self-awareness, who may not even be aware of their bitterness, I think you are, but just unable to control it.
And, as I mentioned above, your point while perhaps academically interesting, doesn't reflect the situation in real world usage, which is what really matters, after all.
It’s more about the operating system than the (target) program. Firefox on Mac is pretty easy too. The underlying OS doesn’t have anti-exploit stuff built into it.
i know what he is getting it. Some of that did change with SL, especially 64-bit SL. Next year we’ll see Chrome in the mix and new OSes all around.
Now, how are viruses likely getting into user’s computers? I don’t know about anyone else, but I don’t run as admin on my Mac. I run as a regular user for added protection. I even pay bills with my iPhone since the carrier’s network is more secure than the hotel network’s I use.
PS: I’ve read your posts, you don’t hostile to me. The large font was a little obnoxious, but not hostile.
Oh I feel great about myself. But thanks for your concern! :-)
I am not trying to bash Apple or the Mac. If you read my posts from other topics and threads you will see I am not a negative person. I love Apple products. I own several Macs and so does my kids.
Well, I did look at some of your other posts, and I see where you are coming from, but the large font does come across as pretty aggressive towards everyone here.
Well, I did look at some of your other posts, and I see where you are coming from, but the large font does come across as pretty aggressive towards everyone here.
Yeah...the extra large fonts was overkill and not needed...i guess i was shouting and didn't realize I was! :-)
Point taken with the large fonts...it was overkill! :-)
You bring up some interesting points about next years Pwn 2 Own. It will be interesting to see
Snow Leopard with:
Safari
Firefox
Chrome
Windows 7
Safari
Firefox
Chrome
Ubuntu Linux
Firefox
I can't wait!
I wonder if they?ll include smartphones. Its now worth considering. Some will say the iPhone is vulnerable because you can plug it into a computer and jailbreak it, but that is very different from it being on WiFi, BT, carrier?s network or worse, installing an app that gives someone control of your device remotely and/or all your personal info.
Yet, Macs (and, un-jailbroken iPhones) just simply don't have the malware problems that Windows does. So, while you may have an academic point, you don't really have a point.
What you do have is a hostility problem, but, lashing out here isn't going to make you feel any better about yourself.
Malware is pretty much a non issue for Windows x64 systems. Its a myth that todays Windows systems are full of BSOD and viruses.
Macs are not hacked because its not worth the time to hack them.
A Toyotta has lower acquisition costs, lower maintenance costs, lower carbon dioxide emissions and is more practical than a Ferrari to get actually things done in life instead of trying to impress people around you. And I've yet to see a Ferrari which can take as much abuse as a Toyotta family van can take over the years.
Ferrari and Apple may not be that different in some aspects: They sell a life-style where in the end it actually doesn't really matter if the good warrants the prize from a pure quality point of view.
The problem with this comparison is it has been shown repeatably by studies by the Gartner Group that Mac cost less over the long haul. So it is more Mac being high quality with the PC going between Toyota on the high end to AMC's Gremlin on the low.
Actually that is an insult...the Gremlin had better quality.
I wonder if they’ll include smartphones. Its now worth considering. Some will say the iPhone is vulnerable because you can plug it into a computer and jailbreak it, but that is very different from it being on WiFi, BT, carrier’s network or worse, installing an app that gives someone control of your device remotely and/or all your personal info.
That would be very interesting to see.
Which smart phones would be used for comparison?
I know the iPhone for sure but I wonder what other phones......
The difference here in the US is that we don't have the exact phone on different service providers.
Every service provider has different phones......
But it would interesting to see which phones get owned first.
Would it be through the cell network, wireless access or BT or even tethered......
Some people just hate MS just for no reason.... just because they are MS. But they do have great products. Quadra 610 does seem to take this waaaaay to personal....
I have a reason. Microsoft screwed my life. It made (and unfortunately still makes) me too stressed. With their assistance, their sub-par products and their scams. I once thought the OS world was just Windows, and all its problems were inevitable. Then I found out the real inventor of GUIs was a company, which suffered a lot when their CEO was fired by the board but was steadily recovering itself since the said CEO returned. And that they sold computers that rarely ever presented the user with so much problems, yet was based on a solid and powerful server system. I remember they had just announced the all-in-display when I became interested. Last April, I bought an alu Macbook, and while I wish I could have bought a Pro (here in Brazil the $1300 Macbook cost me $2500), and that Apple actually had official tech support over here (the authorized assistance guys are clueless), I couldn't be happier...
...and of course if I didn't have to split my HD in half to use my Windows programs. Windows 7 is better than Vista... and XP, but that is not as great as it seems when you remember that XP is now 8 years old and it is still Windows we're talking about...
Comments
Mac OS X is vulnerable. At this years Pwn 2 Own contest the Mac was hacked in 2 minutes!
http://www.engadget.com/2008/03/27/p...-minutes-flat/
While a Vista machine was the LAST one to get hacked!
OSX is rather easy to hack its been proven time and time again. Also in spite of Apples best efforts its rather easy to install on a PC with little to no effort.
Whats really funny is when Apple makes a product like the iPhone that is acutally popular it gets hacked pretty much daily. They can't keep people from jailbreaking the phone and can't even keep the Pre from syncing with itunes.
OSX is farily safe from viruses because hackers don't bother trying to hack something that only has a single digit market share, why bother. Safari is a joke when it comes to being secure and so is the iPhone.
What exactly happened to make you such a bitter person?
Whats really funny is when Apple makes a product like the iPhone that is acutally popular it gets hacked pretty much daily. They can't keep people from jailbreaking the phone and can't even keep the Pre from syncing with itunes.
OSX is farily safe from viruses because hackers don't bother trying to hack something that only has a single digit market share, why bother. Safari is a joke when it comes to being secure and so is the iPhone.
Sorry my mistake that was 2008 Pwn 2 Own that it took 2 minutes to hack the Mac.
In 2009 Pwn 2 Own it only took a few SECONDS to hack the Mac!!!!
http://blogs.zdnet.com/security/?p=2917
What exactly happened to make you such a bitter person?
Try not to use smoke and mirrors to avoid answering a question you know you can't answer. Its not being bitter when your pointing out the truth.
The iPhone security is poor and OSX can easily be hacked and installed on a PC. Its not like we all dont know these are facts.
Being the fanboi that you are you only want to bash companies like Microsoft but get all upset when you know Apple has the same kinds of issues. You and Quadra should be roomates.
Mac OS X is vulnerable. At this years Pwn 2 Own contest the Mac was hacked in 2 minutes!
http://www.engadget.com/2008/03/27/p...-minutes-flat/
While a Vista machine was the LAST one to get hacked!
Sorry my mistake that was 2008 Pwn 2 Own that it took 2 minutes to hack the Mac.
In 2009 Pwn 2 Own it only took a few SECONDS to hack the Mac!!!!
http://blogs.zdnet.com/security/?p=2917
You’re not exactly being forthcoming here. As I recall, Charlie Miller came in with an exploit that he found and had not reported. He specifically did it on the MacBook because it was a better prize, hence why it was hacked first.
He setup a site that requires the user to click on the link to have the exploit work and it’s not an exploit of OS X but of Safari. No one was able to hack any of the machines without going to a specific site. IE8, Safari and Firefox were all hacked during the competition. That means Safari on Windows, Firefox on Windows, OS X or Linux, or IE8 on Windows all have a vulnerability that allow access to the user account if you click on a specific link.
Any connection you make to the internet is a potential security risk. No OS or browser or plugin is immune. The problem with these contests is that they are setup to push people to hack Macs and they don’t actually resolve any real world problems with security. Windows has historically had virus problem from the way programs are run. *nix is inherently more secure from the ground up, but they are far from immune.
You?re not exactly being forthcoming here. As I recall, Charlie Miller came in with an exploit that he found and had not reported. He specifically did it on the MacBook because it was a better prize, hence why it was hacked first.
He setup a site that requires the user to click on the link to have the exploit work and it?s not an exploit of OS X but of Safari. No one was able to hack any of the machines without going to a specific site. IE8, Safari and Firefox were all hacked during the competition.
Any connection you make to the internet is a potential security risk. No OS or browser or plugin is immune. The problem with these contests is that they are setup to push people to hack Macs and they don?t actually resolve any real world problems with security. Windows has historically had virus problem from the way programs are run. *nix is inherently more secure from the ground up, but they are far from immune.
No Charlie reported it to Apple. It was the SAME Safari exploit used the previous year.
That is like saying MS is not responsible for security for IE...yet it comes bundled with the OS each company produces........ A fully patched Mac was hacked FIRST before the Vista machine and the Ubuntu machine was not hacked within the allotted time frame.
This was a known Safari exploit just like there are known exploits for IE.....
Sorry my mistake that was 2008 Pwn 2 Own that it took 2 minutes to hack the Mac.
Yet, Macs (and, un-jailbroken iPhones) just simply don't have the malware problems that Windows does. So, while you may have an academic point, you don't really have a point.
What you do have is a hostility problem, but, lashing out here isn't going to make you feel any better about yourself.
No Charlie reported it to Apple. It was the SAME Safari exploit used the previous year.
That is like saying MS is not responsible for security for IE...yet it comes bundled with the OS each company produces........ A fully patched Mac was hacked FIRST before the Vista machine and the Ubuntu machine was not hacked within the allotted time frame.
This was a known Safari exploit just like there are known exploits for IE.....
Mea culpa! Same hack known for a year and no one tried to use it. On that point Apple really has let their consumer base down. My other points still stand. It was a browser hack, not an OS X hack and all browsers were hacked.
Yet, Macs (and, un-jailbroken iPhones) just simply don't have the malware problems that Windows does. So, while you may have an academic point, you don't really have a point.
What you do have is a hostility problem, but, lashing out here isn't going to make you feel any better about yourself.
Oh I feel great about myself. But thanks for your concern! :-)
I am not trying to bash Apple or the Mac. If you read my posts from other topics and threads you will see I am not a negative person. I love Apple products. I own several Macs and so does my kids.
I was just replying to the general statement that someone made about Windows being vulnerable to viruses and being less secure than the Mac.
Here is another excerpt from the Charlie Miller interview after Pwn 2 Own 2009 and the link to the full interview at the end of the quote.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>
Why Safari? Why didn?t you go after IE or Safari?
It?s really simple. Safari on the Mac is easier to exploit. The things that Windows do to make it harder (for an exploit to work), Macs don?t do. Hacking into Macs is so much easier. You don?t have to jump through hoops and deal with all the anti-exploit mitigations you?d find in Windows.
It?s more about the operating system than the (target) program. Firefox on Mac is pretty easy too. The underlying OS doesn?t have anti-exploit stuff built into it.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>
Link to the full interview:
http://blogs.zdnet.com/security/?p=2941
Its not being bitter when your pointing out the truth.
The two are not mutually exclusive, they aren't even related. But, it's an interesting sort of rationalization about yourself that you display. Still, while there are some posters, totally lacking in self-awareness, who may not even be aware of their bitterness, I think you are, but just unable to control it.
And, as I mentioned above, your point while perhaps academically interesting, doesn't reflect the situation in real world usage, which is what really matters, after all.
It’s more about the operating system than the (target) program. Firefox on Mac is pretty easy too. The underlying OS doesn’t have anti-exploit stuff built into it.
i know what he is getting it. Some of that did change with SL, especially 64-bit SL. Next year we’ll see Chrome in the mix and new OSes all around.
Now, how are viruses likely getting into user’s computers? I don’t know about anyone else, but I don’t run as admin on my Mac. I run as a regular user for added protection. I even pay bills with my iPhone since the carrier’s network is more secure than the hotel network’s I use.
PS: I’ve read your posts, you don’t hostile to me. The large font was a little obnoxious, but not hostile.
i know what he is getting it. Some of that did change with SL, especially 64-bit SL. Next year we?ll see Chrome in the mix and new OSes all around.
PS: I?ve read your posts, you don?t hostile to me. The large font was a little obnoxious, but not hostile.
Point taken with the large fonts...it was overkill! :-)
You bring up some interesting points about next years Pwn 2 Own. It will be interesting to see
Snow Leopard with:
Safari
Firefox
Chrome
Windows 7
Safari
Firefox
Chrome
Ubuntu Linux
Firefox
I can't wait!
Oh I feel great about myself. But thanks for your concern! :-)
I am not trying to bash Apple or the Mac. If you read my posts from other topics and threads you will see I am not a negative person. I love Apple products. I own several Macs and so does my kids.
Well, I did look at some of your other posts, and I see where you are coming from, but the large font does come across as pretty aggressive towards everyone here.
Well, I did look at some of your other posts, and I see where you are coming from, but the large font does come across as pretty aggressive towards everyone here.
Yeah...the extra large fonts was overkill and not needed...i guess i was shouting and didn't realize I was! :-)
Point taken with the large fonts...it was overkill! :-)
You bring up some interesting points about next years Pwn 2 Own. It will be interesting to see
Snow Leopard with:
Safari
Firefox
Chrome
Windows 7
Safari
Firefox
Chrome
Ubuntu Linux
Firefox
I can't wait!
I wonder if they?ll include smartphones. Its now worth considering. Some will say the iPhone is vulnerable because you can plug it into a computer and jailbreak it, but that is very different from it being on WiFi, BT, carrier?s network or worse, installing an app that gives someone control of your device remotely and/or all your personal info.
Yet, Macs (and, un-jailbroken iPhones) just simply don't have the malware problems that Windows does. So, while you may have an academic point, you don't really have a point.
What you do have is a hostility problem, but, lashing out here isn't going to make you feel any better about yourself.
Malware is pretty much a non issue for Windows x64 systems. Its a myth that todays Windows systems are full of BSOD and viruses.
Macs are not hacked because its not worth the time to hack them.
After release though it has been properly advertised, unlike Vista- and unlike Snow Leopard for that matter.
Longhorn is a proper name for the average Windows user because (to paraphrase a line from Bugs Bunny) they are gull-a-bull.
A Toyotta has lower acquisition costs, lower maintenance costs, lower carbon dioxide emissions and is more practical than a Ferrari to get actually things done in life instead of trying to impress people around you. And I've yet to see a Ferrari which can take as much abuse as a Toyotta family van can take over the years.
Ferrari and Apple may not be that different in some aspects: They sell a life-style where in the end it actually doesn't really matter if the good warrants the prize from a pure quality point of view.
The problem with this comparison is it has been shown repeatably by studies by the Gartner Group that Mac cost less over the long haul. So it is more Mac being high quality with the PC going between Toyota on the high end to AMC's Gremlin on the low.
Actually that is an insult...the Gremlin had better quality.
I wonder if they’ll include smartphones. Its now worth considering. Some will say the iPhone is vulnerable because you can plug it into a computer and jailbreak it, but that is very different from it being on WiFi, BT, carrier’s network or worse, installing an app that gives someone control of your device remotely and/or all your personal info.
That would be very interesting to see.
Which smart phones would be used for comparison?
I know the iPhone for sure but I wonder what other phones......
The difference here in the US is that we don't have the exact phone on different service providers.
Every service provider has different phones......
But it would interesting to see which phones get owned first.
Would it be through the cell network, wireless access or BT or even tethered......
Would jail broken iPhones be included?
Great post! You hit the nail right on the head!
Some people just hate MS just for no reason.... just because they are MS. But they do have great products. Quadra 610 does seem to take this waaaaay to personal....
I have a reason. Microsoft screwed my life. It made (and unfortunately still makes) me too stressed. With their assistance, their sub-par products and their scams. I once thought the OS world was just Windows, and all its problems were inevitable. Then I found out the real inventor of GUIs was a company, which suffered a lot when their CEO was fired by the board but was steadily recovering itself since the said CEO returned. And that they sold computers that rarely ever presented the user with so much problems, yet was based on a solid and powerful server system. I remember they had just announced the all-in-display when I became interested. Last April, I bought an alu Macbook, and while I wish I could have bought a Pro (here in Brazil the $1300 Macbook cost me $2500), and that Apple actually had official tech support over here (the authorized assistance guys are clueless), I couldn't be happier...
...and of course if I didn't have to split my HD in half to use my Windows programs. Windows 7 is better than Vista... and XP, but that is not as great as it seems when you remember that XP is now 8 years old and it is still Windows we're talking about...