Microsoft official admits Windows 7 design inspired by Mac OS X

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  • Reply 181 of 229
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by myapplelove View Post




    AND YOU HAVE THE GALL TO ASK US WHY THE F. DIDN'T WE CHECK OUT WINDOWS 7 OR READ THE REVIEWS????? Windows 7 is the thing we care less than anything in the globe. After years and years of torture...



    No, you're incorrect unfortunately...I didn't ask.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by myapplelove View Post


    because of all the blah blah of the idiot pc zealots and the sheer lying and b**ing of apple on their price, incompatibility and all the other garbage thrown at apple.



    You can come on over and switch to OS X, sure...and turn around and follow the same pattern. Keep yourself in the dark, only follow what's right in front of your face. Being the sheep when the shepherds are idiots doesn't bode well for your IQ.

    Bash Windows because right now you're not using it, and don't bother to read anything about it. But make sure you defend people who post bad things today about what shortcomings might have been true 5 years ago.





    Time Machine, by the by, failed me miserably on my second backup attempt. It has since been turned off and I'm using iBackup. Firewire connected hard drive, too. It's a shame sometimes things just don't work the way you want them to.
  • Reply 182 of 229
    alfiejralfiejr Posts: 1,524member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by teckstud View Post


    As opposed to VESA mounting an iMac which serves absolutely no purpose as you can't run a Blu-ray or PS3 on it- or anything else on it with HDMI for that matter. ANd then it's too far away to use as a work station hung up on a wall. And MS makes no sense?



    kiddo - HDMI/HDCP is explicitly designed to limit what your media device or computer can output - to enforce the big media co's DRM! it doesn't empower you, it imprisons you! the "flag" activating those controls has never been turned on yet (they are afraid of the backlash), but it is there, ready and waiting. get a clue. the last place you want it is inside your computer. on some peripheral like AppleTV, then it's sandboxed and ok. Apple is very wise to avoid incorporating it in the Mac OS.



    of course MS embraces and implements all forms of DRM wholeheartedly, to monetize someday everything, or as much as they can. you suckers are lambs headed to the slaughter.
  • Reply 183 of 229
    asciiascii Posts: 5,936member
    "Microsoft official admits Windows 7 design inspired by Mac OS X"



    As if we didn't notice.
  • Reply 184 of 229
    alfiejralfiejr Posts: 1,524member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by DaHarder View Post


    Conversely...



    Apple's practice of placing their hardware on almost complete 'Lock Down' simply provides a Limiting Experience for many users.



    My Macs are a lot of things, but 'open' is certainly NOT one of them, and that's why 90% of the time I use one of my Win/Linux-based computers.



    right, it's just terrible the way Boot Camp with its optimized drivers (or Parallels etc) lets you run Windows 7 and/or Linux all on just one Mac instead of your half dozen computers! even together at the same time on the same desktop!! and yes even drag and drop between them!!! oh the horrible savage Mac lock down cruelty!!!!



    you must be glad MS forgot to copy this in wide-open Windows 7!
  • Reply 185 of 229
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by rorybalmer View Post


    I really agree with this comment..



    There is never gonna be another Led Zeppelin, all you can do is just rip them off.



    Steve Jobs has whole heartedly said in a number of interviews that todays apple wouldn't exist without Bill Gates.



    True. It's really this simple. Each helped the other BUT one is from an engineering POV the other an artist. Macs, in a way, work the way you would think they should, to some degree that is if you had say used a computer once or twice. Problem is Steve has forgotten all the artists ornhas been extremly hard in them while focusing most of thier attention on consumer electronics and not building the machine that is powerful, without gotchas, strong, fast and priced within reason. Apple still has a huge GAO between the iMac and Mac Pro that one day needs to be addressed. No Steve. You won't lose millions of pro sales if you build mid range high end gpu esata express headless macs. Apple will make more money not less.





    Again case in point: Avid/Dugudesign. Owns Avid. Most shows ate down on Avid. Fcp is making some small headway. Friend if mine, foley fx manager for "No Country For Old Med" did a lot of it on FCP. anyway Avid saw computers were getting faster and people no longer needed ro tools TDM cards to off load the processing. And with 16 cores soon. Wow anyway, they bought MAudio which relies all on native FSB CLU GPU FPU processing. Today you can walk around with a 24 track studio in your bacpack. Would have cost $50,000 just 10 years ago if not more.

    Apple needs to get it and I don't think they will until Steve steps down. I was right about Aple using intel when everyone said no way. Trust me. It's going to happen. The mac Pro will be 64 core machines and there wil be 8/16 core midrange, user friendly as in you can buy your own graphic card, boxes one day.
  • Reply 186 of 229
    alfiejralfiejr Posts: 1,524member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by DaHarder View Post


    Ahhhh...



    But the difference is that one can very easily modify/alter the appearance of almost ANY element of Windows, as opposed to the Mac OS which offers very little by way of 'customization' (of any sort).



    Macs are little more than computing appliances, ones that cater to the absolute lowest common denominator of user e.g. those who want every aspect of their computing experience decided for them.



    Me, I prefer a bit more involvement...



    if you want to customize Mac Finder options or desktop/dock elements, themes, etc. there is plenty of good shareware available to do that. just go get some and use it! it's easy to find and use.



    or if you want more advanced control, learn to use the Mac OS Terminal to do these things yourself via Unix commands. oh - but that would be "involvement" in "'customization' (of any sort)" - wouldn't it? ooops.



    guess you're glad that is another thing MS forgot to copy in Windows 7.
  • Reply 187 of 229
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Alfiejr View Post


    right, it's just terrible the way Boot Camp ...



    Uhm, that's software. The dude was talking about hardware. And yes, Apple locks down their hardware. In a Windows or Linux box you can change network cards, graphics cards, upgrade your processor to a faster one, add a hardware RAID controller or just a controller for lots of SATA ports for doing software RAID, and so on and so forth. You can't do that on any Apple hardware other than the Mac Pro, and the Mac Pro only supports a very limited number of Apple-certified or Apple-built devices.



    The Apple approach lets them build a very reliable hardware/software combination since it doesn't have to deal with the driver nightmare that faces Linux developers, where a vendor comes out with a new rev of their graphics hardware that happens to need one bit toggled different under very limited conditions and if you don't toggle that bit at exactly the right time and place, it locks up the whole PCI-X bus and takes down your system (since your disk I/O subsystem is dead too at that point). But it does mean that you don't upgrade an Apple -- you sell it to someone upgrading from an even older Apple, and then buy a new one. Which as far as Apple is concerned is all fine and good, but those of us with more technical chops definitely notice the difference, and put up with it only because Macs and the Mac OS just plain *work* without any fuss, muss, or headaches. I develop Linux drivers and software all day long. I don't want to fight with the hardware and software on my development workstation when all I want to do is edit my bloody source file and export it on NFS to the Linux compile farm that compiles it for various Linux distributions. Both Linux and Windows just are too bloody FIDDLY when all I want to do is get work done...
  • Reply 188 of 229
    erunnoerunno Posts: 225member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Gazoobee View Post


    Neither of these are "better" it's just your preference.



    It's certainly better for the use case I described. It takes less clicks to open an application with the desired document. If the amount of clicks is the criteria than Windows 7 has the superior implementation of the same concept.



    Quote:

    Opening a document in Mac OS X that you were working on is easier for me because I have quicker access to my documents from the Documents stack which is a a navigable "jump-list" of the all my documents.



    I guess it really depends if you organize your documents in a flat hierarchy () but navigating several levels of folders until one does find the desired document is anything but quick.



    Quote:

    The visual indicator for what windows are open with which application is called "pause-click" and is also right on the dock.



    I don't understand what you are saying. The dock does not visually differentiate whether one or more windows are open and so especially minimized windows do not have a visual representation.



    Quote:

    Whatever works for you is fine, but overall Mac OS X is better IMO. More logical, more consistent, easier and faster to get at things etc.



    Standard Disciple of his Jobness disclaimer. \ Does Apple actually provide these text modules somewhere?
  • Reply 189 of 229
    alfiejralfiejr Posts: 1,524member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by badtux View Post


    Uhm, that's software. The dude was talking about hardware. And yes, Apple locks down their hardware. In a Windows or Linux box you can change network cards, graphics cards, upgrade your processor to a faster one, add a hardware RAID controller or just a controller for lots of SATA ports for doing software RAID, and so on and so forth. You can't do that on any Apple hardware other than the Mac Pro, and the Mac Pro only supports a very limited number of Apple-certified or Apple-built devices.



    nah, go back and look at post #82 in full and the other posts down there by DaHarder, everyone is talking about the OS one way or another. this whole article/thread is about the OS's unless i missed one among the five pages.
  • Reply 190 of 229
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Erunno View Post


    It's certainly better for the use case I described. It takes less clicks to open an application with the desired document. If the amount of clicks is the criteria than Windows 7 has the superior implementation of the same concept.







    I guess it really depends if you organize your documents in a flat hierarchy () but navigating several levels of folders until one does find the desired document is anything but quick.




    You still "drill down in folders"?



    Whether in Windows (any version) or on the Mac, I always use an indexing tool of some sort. On the Mac, I use LaunchBar (someone else mentioned it above... it's GREAT!), where as even Spotlight, either in the Taskbar or in every Open/Save dialog is sufficient for most people. Another must have utility on the Mac is DefaultFolder. I've been using it since the early 90's.



    Regardless, drilling down in folders is quite primitive in my mind, and very time wasting.



    FYI: On Windows, try Launchy or Colibri.
  • Reply 191 of 229
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by myapplelove View Post


    But in honesty now, I feel such a damn fool that I didn't switch to apple earlier on, because of all the blah blah of the idiot pc zealots and the sheer lying and b**ing of apple on their price, incompatibility and all the other garbage thrown at apple.



    I feel the same way.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by myapplelove View Post


    AND YOU HAVE THE GALL TO ASK US WHY THE F. DIDN'T WE CHECK OUT WINDOWS 7 OR READ THE REVIEWS????? Windows 7 is the thing we care less than anything in the globe. After years and years of torture...



    Now that Siemens has NX for the Mac platform, there is nothing the Windows platforms can offer me, except misery.



    Microsoft copied the "look and feel" of OSX? How about they "steal" other good Apple ideas, like having applications as package/folders instead of allowing developers to dump their files all over the place willy-nilly. There are software packages on WIndows that literally s**t files everywhere. In WINDOWS, WINDOWS\\SYSTEM32, it's home directory, a user's My Documents. Everywhere. DLL files everywhere. It would also help avoid the problem of DLL files accidentally getting moved and breaking programs totally. On a Mac, DLL files are packaged and structured, not just hidden with a default show/hide option.



    It's file chaos in Windows...



    People are raving about the Windows GUI, like children with a new toy, but the problem with Windows is that this GUI that's so good is still the front-end to something rather badly written and nasty. That, having the operating system and applications organized better, should be Microsoft's priority but I think the NT kernel is beyond the point of salvation.



    Windows is just plain awful under the hood. No matter how much perfume you slap over a turd, it's still a turd.
  • Reply 192 of 229
    erunnoerunno Posts: 225member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ThePixelDoc View Post


    You still "drill down in folders"?



    Actually, I don't as I'm mostly working with the keyboard which is usually far more efficient but that's beside the point. My argument is that for people who work primarily with the mouse the Windows jump lists provide a quicker access to recently used documents than the OS X implementation.



    And even Spotlight/Windows search is not always a remedy to the problem as sometimes the documents you search are not in the loaded index (i.e. you wait up to 10 seconds and more until the indexing service finds the document) or you get dozens of hits because the keywords you entered unfortunately are present in dozens of documents and than the search refinement game starts (which words to enter to narrow down the result set).
  • Reply 193 of 229
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by cycomiko View Post


    You must be a special type pf person if you think that the sole input will ever be by touchscreen on any computer. painful injury, lol.



    No more "special" than you - I'm just a normal human being whose arm and shoulder will get tired and sore from repeatedly reaching up to the screen. Why, what are you - Robocop? Have you ever had a shoulder injury, or the same pinched nerve that I have? Like I said, painful.



    Quote:

    the failure of tablet PC's is that they used to be too expensive for the general public to purcahse.



    They also had little or no use. They have more these days, but other than the kitchen computer (as invented by Microsoft, see Windows XP packaging), I fail to see what for outside of vertical markets.





    Quote:
    Originally Posted by teckstud View Post


    Here you answered you own questions -now live in it:



    What? If you can't give the definitions to your own terms that I asked for, just say so. But in future perhaps you should think about being able to back up your soundbites, in case anyone else asks for a definition.



    Quote:

    You're not getting the whole web experience when the web uses flash.



    Ahh, ye olde "web experience" argument, you sound like an advertisement for IE. The last time I used Flash for anything substantial (other than uploading pictures with PhotoBucket) was when I was throwing shoes at George Bush - and that's pretty much all Flash is good for. Any sites based on Flash rarely do anything that can't be accomplished without it. "Whole web experience" -



    Quote:

    You are under Apple's control and you embrace it which is the sad thing and berate the other 90% of its users.



    Do you even know what you are talking about?



    1. Flash is made by Adobe, and is not under Apples control.

    2. I have Flash installed, for the five times a year I actually need it - once again, not under Apples control. Exactly how am I under Apples control? Ahh, don't bother - we already know you can't back up your soundbites with any kind of fact.



    Quote:

    You can go back to your Apple drip now- red I presume as green is owned by the Beatles.



    Whatever. Trying to follow your line of reasoning is like herding cats, only less fun.
  • Reply 194 of 229
    newbeenewbee Posts: 2,055member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by teckstud View Post


    I just got back - I had an extremely difficult problem to solve at the office.



    Your PC down again?
  • Reply 195 of 229
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by DaHarder View Post


    Haven't you heard... Apple supporters don't want choices.



    Apple supporters and users have already MADE a choice - which is apparently what the masses - such as yourself - don't seem to like. Don't like my choice of computer? Cry me a river.





    Quote:
    Originally Posted by DaHarder View Post


    Oh...



    Like the content afforded via the exponentially larger number of (quality) applications available for the Windows platform versus the Mac?



    Quality is in the eye of the beholder. It's also more important than quantity.
  • Reply 196 of 229
  • Reply 197 of 229
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by rorybalmer View Post


    I really think political comparisons like this are pretty lame.. it kind of says "I don't actually know anything about fascism, I just call anything I don't like a facist".



    You see the big difference here is if you don't like what apple offers you, you can just not buy it! You have a "CHOICE".. thats called democracy.



    Democracy and free market capitalism are not synonymous. One is a political structure, the other is an economic model.
  • Reply 198 of 229
    newbeenewbee Posts: 2,055member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by DaHarder View Post


    That's fine as there will always be those who prefer the more utilitarian/mundane to that offering other attributes (customization/infinitely greater software selection/BluRay player-recorders/ etc.).





    If you're so happy with your PC, good for you, but the thing Is .... why do you and others like you spend so much time on an Apple fan site trying to justify your decision to us? Talk about "penis envy"...... sounds to me like you people have it in spades. \
  • Reply 199 of 229
    newbeenewbee Posts: 2,055member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by cycomiko View Post


    cos they are as comparable as two computers using the same GPU, same CPU, same memory, same HDD, etc...



    perhaps Rosebud steakhouse is blending mcdonalds nad serving it in a fancy aluminium enclosure?





    And perhaps you don't know your a**hole from your elbow. You want to check out the "true value" of a retail product? .... go to the used/second hand marketplace, see what consumers say with their $$$ as to which computer "holds its value" ..... Invariably Macs retain more of their value, over a longer period of time, day in and day out than any PC. ..... funny isn't it when, according to you, they all use the same hardware pieces.
  • Reply 200 of 229
    djsherlydjsherly Posts: 1,031member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by patrickwalker View Post


    It's file chaos in Windows...



    People are raving about the Windows GUI, like children with a new toy, but the problem with Windows is that this GUI that's so good is still the front-end to something rather badly written and nasty. That, having the operating system and applications organized better, should be Microsoft's priority but I think the NT kernel is beyond the point of salvation.



    Windows is just plain awful under the hood. No matter how much perfume you slap over a turd, it's still a turd.



    That's pretty much the point, isn't it? As far as I can tell, Win7 is suggesting very hard that you limit your involvement in the file system to Users\\<Username>. It makes complete sense. If you're using the computer to manage your files, then why are you going to put files elsewhere? The rest of the house shouldn't really be any of the users concern.



    Here's a shocker: OS X is predicated on you doing the same thing. Because it's a good idea.



    To turn to your point about the GUI, then. It doesn't matter what's going on underneath as long as the operator can get done what he or she needs to do. I am not a developer or a tech nerd which puts me squarely in the significant proportion of the population who coulld care less about any of that.



    To go back to another post, where someone wanted to set the workgroup, all he had to do was press the Windows key, type 'workgroup', and it would have been the very first suggestion offered him.



    I migrated my desktop from windows XP to Win 7 and I like what I see. My macbook, which has been the mainstay of my computing experience since 2006 has hardly been used since I installed 7. It's hardly clown homocide as Quadra asserts: all windows have a consistent appearance, except iTunes of all things. At any rate, if I don't like it, I'm not stuck with it. With OS X, with out third party apps, you get grey, grey, or grey. As long as it's grey. Win7 is fast, doesn't crash: the native window management tools are something that Apple could take a leaf from. The Zoom button is the most ridiculous UI paradigm out there, in the absence of a separate maximise button.



    The blinkered view that win7 is crap is just that: blinkered. A gracious admission that the windows team improved elements of the UI that apple pioneered is flattery, just as much as it is a reason for scorn.
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