I agree with you that Gates is not all bad. But "classy"? I don't think I can go that far.
Did you see the interview with Mossberg they're talking about? During that, Gates complained about the "I'm a Mac" campaign and how everybody hates the PC guy. Jobs and the journalist tried to comfort him that everybody loves the PC guy, and like a petulant child Gates said something like: "Maybe his mother loves him".
I for one interpreted that as the richest man in the world whining about being unloved. Indeed, Bill Gates has some fabulous strengths and good qualities, but he's not well adjusted enough for me to call him "classy".
If whining and petulance were negatives, I don't think Mother Teresa would be a Mother Teresa.
Both Apple and Microsoft make good products and some stinkers. The greatest thing about them is that they are innovators and provide many jobs for Americans and people around the world either directly or indirectly.
Yeah not that Steve Jobs has ever done anything wrong you know like facing a security fraud lawsuit.
Not that anyone was suggesting as much. Microsoft's shenanigans at the antitrust trial have been mentioned, but not the extreme anticompetitive arrogance that got the attention of the DoJ in the first place. Probably the quote that has always best summarized this attitude for me:
Quote:
I take much of what [Bill Gates] says with a grain of salt because Bill would like to be ... the center of gravity for the whole world. He's totally dedicated to his work and will do virtually anything to kill the rest of us ... Bill Gates can be your partner and be your enemy at the same time.
Not that anyone was suggesting as much. Microsoft's shenanigans at the antitrust trial have been mentioned, but not the extreme anticompetitive arrogance that got the attention of the DoJ in the first place. Probably the quote that has always best summarized this attitude for me:
Of course there are more. Dozens more.
The fact is we could all sit here and post all day on the lawsuits filed against both Apple and Microsoft. Its rather pointless and not even what this article was about.
"Thievery"? "False evidence"? Those are pretty serious charges: DoJ never found that. "Monopoly?" Of course. I already alluded to that. But the point of my original post was, what matters now is what he has done with his monopoly rents
FWIW, the judge in the antitrust trial was prepared to find Microsoft in contempt for supplying falsified evidence. They absolutely did supply falsified evidence to the court, a fact that has never been in dispute. This was all just symptomatic of a company culture that dictated that they were always meant to win every time, against any foe, at any cost, no matter what. This point of view came straight from Bill Gates. Illegalities aside, this attitude may have served them well for a time, but I think over the course of decades has poisoned the company's culture quite deeply.
Say what you will about his company and his products, but Bill Gates is a classy guy. Always has been. You also have to recognize the dramatic good that his money (and the money that Warren Buffett decided to entrust him with) is doing. I recognize that his wealth came from a monopoly, but so what: it could have been put to far worse uses (e.g.,buying sports teams and fiddling around with entrepreneurial trivia).
The fact is we could all sit here and post all day on the lawsuits filed against both Apple and Microsoft. Its rather pointless and not even what this article was about.
An antitrust law violation charge is not just a lawsuit. Microsoft has faced many of these, and to my knowledge, hasn't won a single one. Which means they have been serial violators of the law, and quite unrepentantly so. I realize that this is not what the article is about, but someone claimed that Bill Gates is a classy guy -- which if you know his history, you'd never say.
Bill gates never benefitted from making the sort of colossal mistakes that Steve Jobs did. There was a little bit of wandering around in the desert for Jobs.
Microsoft got so powerful, so successful so quickly - it would be hard for them not to think that whatever they touched would turn to gold. They have so much money, they must think they just have to do something with it - anything with it.
Jobs likely remembers that a few colossal mistakes - a little misplaced arrogance - can lay you pretty low. I'm not saying he's not arrogant now, it's just not as often misplaced.
Microsoft's blunders have been gi-friggin-normous, but never fatal. At least not yet. Blundering themselves out of the mobile market was dumb. Pink was dumb. Zune was dumb. Vista was 'no-hands-on-deck' dumb, but XBOX seems to be working (And I was among those who thought it probably wouldn't). The thing is, it seems like a near-fatal accident is what it would take for MS to learn to pare everything down to what's actually important. If they don't have one soon, then slowly the 'big but not fatal' errors are going to slowly erode MS's power until they wake up one day and wonder what the hell happened.
Early failures are what teach you how to handle the power of success - this is why spoiled children who are sheltered from such failures rarely exceed their parents.
Both Apple and Microsoft make good products and some stinkers. The greatest thing about them is that they are innovators and provide many jobs for Americans and people around the world either directly or indirectly.
Finally something that makes sense and isn't a personal attack on some else's opinion!!!
And you never hear him bringing politics into his company.
Oh, yes you do. Microsoft has been big in contributions to Republicans in Congress and the White House over the years, pushing to get favorable legislation. Do you think it's a coincidence that after Bush took office, the Justice Department backed off the monopoly case against Microsoft, and offered a very mild punishment to settle the case?
An antitrust law violation charge is not just a lawsuit. Microsoft has faced many of these, and to my knowledge, hasn't won a single one. Which means they have been serial violators of the law, and quite unrepentantly so. I realize that this is not what the article is about, but someone claimed that Bill Gates is a classy guy -- which if you know his history, you'd never say.
'The D.C. Circuit Court of Appeals overturned Judge Jackson's rulings against Microsoft. This was partly because the Appellate court had adopted a "drastically altered scope of liability" under which the Remedies could be taken, and also partly due to the embargoed interviews Judge Jackson had given to the news media while he was still hearing the case, in violation of the Code of Conduct for US Judges.[13] Judge Jackson did not attend the D.C. Circuit Court of Appeals hearing, in which the appeals court judges accused him of unethical conduct and determined he should have recused himself from the case.[14]"
Actually the case was overturned and a settlement was reached.
its like we're hamsters running on a treadmill trying to get through to Teckdud. Painful.
Well, that's exactly what he wants. There really is no point in trying to use reason with him. He's just here to be disruptive, like the thread yesterday where he kept making nonsense posts about Al Gore and other stuff unrelated to the thread until he finally hooked someone into responding. If you respond to him at all, you might as well just keep it to ridicule.
Something else that I think is interesting (although off-topic) is to look at the latest OS offerings from Apple and Windows.
Snow Leopard is a revolution snuck in as an evolution. This is why it's breaking so many things and why I haven't come onboard with it yet. Grand Central and OpenCL are 'big steps forward', but I don't want to install it until I know that it won't break something. It looks a lot like Leopard, but underneath the hood, there's a lot of new stuff.
Windows7 is an evolution sold as a revolution. They've made big steps in the UI, in basic common-sense stuff, in basic user-friendliness - but it's still just Windows. This means a registry, an inconsistent Application installation process, the still crazy-backwards uninstalls, the susceptibility to malware and viruses, driver-hardware issues, etc. Another big reason that it looks like a revolution is that it IS a big step forward from XP - but for gawd's sake, it damned well better be! XP is nine years old! The disaster that was Vista was enough to get Microsoft to focus on their bread and butter for long enough to churn out something that isn't total crap - but can they hold that focus?
Gates can afford to be gracious now - they both can. Gates is no longer what is completely wrong with Windows. He's got enough distance from the product that he's probably not quite as personally involved with it anymore. Jobs can be gracious because Apple has proven it can be successful regardless of what Microsoft does.
Comments
I agree with you that Gates is not all bad. But "classy"? I don't think I can go that far.
Did you see the interview with Mossberg they're talking about? During that, Gates complained about the "I'm a Mac" campaign and how everybody hates the PC guy. Jobs and the journalist tried to comfort him that everybody loves the PC guy, and like a petulant child Gates said something like: "Maybe his mother loves him".
I for one interpreted that as the richest man in the world whining about being unloved. Indeed, Bill Gates has some fabulous strengths and good qualities, but he's not well adjusted enough for me to call him "classy".
If whining and petulance were negatives, I don't think Mother Teresa would be a Mother Teresa.
Yeah not that Steve Jobs has ever done anything wrong you know like facing a security fraud lawsuit.
Not that anyone was suggesting as much. Microsoft's shenanigans at the antitrust trial have been mentioned, but not the extreme anticompetitive arrogance that got the attention of the DoJ in the first place. Probably the quote that has always best summarized this attitude for me:
I take much of what [Bill Gates] says with a grain of salt because Bill would like to be ... the center of gravity for the whole world. He's totally dedicated to his work and will do virtually anything to kill the rest of us ... Bill Gates can be your partner and be your enemy at the same time.
--ROBERT ALLEN, Chairman, AT&T
Of course there are more. Dozens more.
Not that anyone was suggesting as much. Microsoft's shenanigans at the antitrust trial have been mentioned, but not the extreme anticompetitive arrogance that got the attention of the DoJ in the first place. Probably the quote that has always best summarized this attitude for me:
Of course there are more. Dozens more.
The fact is we could all sit here and post all day on the lawsuits filed against both Apple and Microsoft. Its rather pointless and not even what this article was about.
"Thievery"? "False evidence"? Those are pretty serious charges: DoJ never found that. "Monopoly?" Of course. I already alluded to that. But the point of my original post was, what matters now is what he has done with his monopoly rents
FWIW, the judge in the antitrust trial was prepared to find Microsoft in contempt for supplying falsified evidence. They absolutely did supply falsified evidence to the court, a fact that has never been in dispute. This was all just symptomatic of a company culture that dictated that they were always meant to win every time, against any foe, at any cost, no matter what. This point of view came straight from Bill Gates. Illegalities aside, this attitude may have served them well for a time, but I think over the course of decades has poisoned the company's culture quite deeply.
Say what you will about his company and his products, but Bill Gates is a classy guy. Always has been. You also have to recognize the dramatic good that his money (and the money that Warren Buffett decided to entrust him with) is doing. I recognize that his wealth came from a monopoly, but so what: it could have been put to far worse uses (e.g.,buying sports teams and fiddling around with entrepreneurial trivia).
You mean like Paul Allen?
The fact is we could all sit here and post all day on the lawsuits filed against both Apple and Microsoft. Its rather pointless and not even what this article was about.
An antitrust law violation charge is not just a lawsuit. Microsoft has faced many of these, and to my knowledge, hasn't won a single one. Which means they have been serial violators of the law, and quite unrepentantly so. I realize that this is not what the article is about, but someone claimed that Bill Gates is a classy guy -- which if you know his history, you'd never say.
it's called the ignore list- you can surely figure out how to use it and ease your pain.
No, because other people quote the silly Dud comments, so they show up anyway.
Microsoft got so powerful, so successful so quickly - it would be hard for them not to think that whatever they touched would turn to gold. They have so much money, they must think they just have to do something with it - anything with it.
Jobs likely remembers that a few colossal mistakes - a little misplaced arrogance - can lay you pretty low. I'm not saying he's not arrogant now, it's just not as often misplaced.
Microsoft's blunders have been gi-friggin-normous, but never fatal. At least not yet. Blundering themselves out of the mobile market was dumb. Pink was dumb. Zune was dumb. Vista was 'no-hands-on-deck' dumb, but XBOX seems to be working (And I was among those who thought it probably wouldn't). The thing is, it seems like a near-fatal accident is what it would take for MS to learn to pare everything down to what's actually important. If they don't have one soon, then slowly the 'big but not fatal' errors are going to slowly erode MS's power until they wake up one day and wonder what the hell happened.
Early failures are what teach you how to handle the power of success - this is why spoiled children who are sheltered from such failures rarely exceed their parents.
Both Apple and Microsoft make good products and some stinkers. The greatest thing about them is that they are innovators and provide many jobs for Americans and people around the world either directly or indirectly.
Finally something that makes sense and isn't a personal attack on some else's opinion!!!
He was gracious here and you got to give it to him.
As for that obese creep Balmer, well...
And you never hear him bringing politics into his company.
Oh, yes you do. Microsoft has been big in contributions to Republicans in Congress and the White House over the years, pushing to get favorable legislation. Do you think it's a coincidence that after Bush took office, the Justice Department backed off the monopoly case against Microsoft, and offered a very mild punishment to settle the case?
An antitrust law violation charge is not just a lawsuit. Microsoft has faced many of these, and to my knowledge, hasn't won a single one. Which means they have been serial violators of the law, and quite unrepentantly so. I realize that this is not what the article is about, but someone claimed that Bill Gates is a classy guy -- which if you know his history, you'd never say.
'The D.C. Circuit Court of Appeals overturned Judge Jackson's rulings against Microsoft. This was partly because the Appellate court had adopted a "drastically altered scope of liability" under which the Remedies could be taken, and also partly due to the embargoed interviews Judge Jackson had given to the news media while he was still hearing the case, in violation of the Code of Conduct for US Judges.[13] Judge Jackson did not attend the D.C. Circuit Court of Appeals hearing, in which the appeals court judges accused him of unethical conduct and determined he should have recused himself from the case.[14]"
Actually the case was overturned and a settlement was reached.
Bill has matured over the years, of course it's taken him a long time, longer than the average male, which is long enough to begin with.
He was gracious here and you got to give it to him.
As for that obese creep Balmer, well...
In every interview I have ever seen with both Bill Gates and Steves Jobs they have always been gracious to each other.
What Bill is really saying is Apple will suffer greatly when Steve leaves.
History has already proven that fact.
its like we're hamsters running on a treadmill trying to get through to Teckdud. Painful.
Well, that's exactly what he wants. There really is no point in trying to use reason with him. He's just here to be disruptive, like the thread yesterday where he kept making nonsense posts about Al Gore and other stuff unrelated to the thread until he finally hooked someone into responding. If you respond to him at all, you might as well just keep it to ridicule.
Snow Leopard is a revolution snuck in as an evolution. This is why it's breaking so many things and why I haven't come onboard with it yet. Grand Central and OpenCL are 'big steps forward', but I don't want to install it until I know that it won't break something. It looks a lot like Leopard, but underneath the hood, there's a lot of new stuff.
Windows7 is an evolution sold as a revolution. They've made big steps in the UI, in basic common-sense stuff, in basic user-friendliness - but it's still just Windows. This means a registry, an inconsistent Application installation process, the still crazy-backwards uninstalls, the susceptibility to malware and viruses, driver-hardware issues, etc. Another big reason that it looks like a revolution is that it IS a big step forward from XP - but for gawd's sake, it damned well better be! XP is nine years old! The disaster that was Vista was enough to get Microsoft to focus on their bread and butter for long enough to churn out something that isn't total crap - but can they hold that focus?
Gates can afford to be gracious now - they both can. Gates is no longer what is completely wrong with Windows. He's got enough distance from the product that he's probably not quite as personally involved with it anymore. Jobs can be gracious because Apple has proven it can be successful regardless of what Microsoft does.