He obviously knows; 6 posts later, he congratulated your cited post (on that topic) with, "Best post ever!"
Yech - I was trying to fathom the difference between him on that thread and this one and then he trotted out the family emergency which (could easily explain) a pissy mode.
On one hand I can't see how that would make anyone an apologist for ATT and confuse Apple with a phone company and put words in people's mouth, but actually - in some warped way - I could see that.
I'm not going to fan the BS if he's got (legit) personal problems because I'm not going to get into muck pile with someone dealing with external stress because that would be beyond total douche.
I think the problem is that no phone company can afford "limitless" downloads. So "unlimited" has quite a different meaning.
Sometimes it's about the device itself. If it was a phone with email and nothing else, they could offer unlimited and expect 100MB usage. So an unlimited plan might cost $5/mth because they know what the limit will really be. Of course, they'd be safer to call it an "unlimited email" plan, because then people wouldn't get confused.
An iPhone uses much less data than a laptop.
Sometimes it's about the network. Unlimited dialup is very limited. Unlimited GPRS is a lot less than unlimited 3G. That's why the unlimited data plan on the iPhone 3G was $10/mth more than the unlimited data plan on the GSM version of the iPhone.
In the end AT&T protects themselves with a "fair use" policy just in case their calculations are wrong
It's fair that in these scenarios it's not as simple to just tether into an unlimited plan. But in countries where you pay for just 150MB, it's irrelevant.
I disagree. With proper planning, self-healing IN networks, you can do just about anything. The problem is, the operators have you guys (US based customers) by the short ones. There is just a different mentality in Europe verses the US when it comes to providing service. I go well over any current data plan the US carriers offer on a monthly basis and my provider says nothing. I paid for unlimited and that is what I get. I even have a QoS provision in my contract.
You made some good points but it boils down to you guys are just getting screwed.
He obviously knows; 6 posts later, he congratulated your cited post (on that topic) with, "Best post ever!"
It was funny, but his anger was already building back in that post. He was warned of the rules and just kept on going and going and... I guess when someone has a sense of entitlement in one area it likely carries over to other areas.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GregAlexander
I think the problem is that no phone company can afford "limitless" downloads. So "unlimited" has quite a different meaning.
I agree, and I hate the term but the buyer must also beware. I'm a big fan of the way several other countries are required by law to break out the details.
Remember when companies offered "unlimited/unlimited", referring to an unlimited data with no black out times? Unlimited means an unlimited amount of usage within your contract, and unlimited amount of data on the device in question. They make that clear. We don't have to like it; we can shop elsewhere. Free Market FTW.
Quote:
An iPhone uses much less data than a laptop.
Not for me, at least not for the last two years.
PS: The all-you-can-eat plans may come to an end with the next iPhone in order to prevent this. They may even offer the unlimited but raise the price if they find it too costly. If they do, I'm sure many will jump ship, but that is how the free market works.
PS: The all-you-can-eat plans may come to an end with the next iPhone in order to prevent this. They may even offer the unlimited but raise the price if they find it too costly. If they do, I'm sure many will jump ship, but that is how the free market works.
Good point. Once again, the saying goes. No one is forcing anyone to buy these things. I am pissed that Apple does not out-right allow tethering to the iPad. Noting is saying they won't later, but now the word is no. I am inconvenienced by having to carry another phone (Nokia N86 or soon to purchase N900) as my wifi hotspot creator but I have the choice not to. I can either bitch and moan or carry what I need to make things happen. When in the US, I get a prepaid data card from AT&T, put it in my Nokia, turn on JoikuSpot and have a mobile wifi access point. My MBP and iPhone are happy-happy. I do what I have to do to get by.
Good point. Once again, the saying goes. No one is forcing anyone to buy these things. I am pissed that Apple does not out-right allow tethering to the iPad. Noting is saying they won't later, but now the word is no. I am inconvenienced by having to carry another phone (Nokia N86 or soon to purchase N900) as my wifi hotspot creator but I have the choice not to. I can either bitch and moan or carry what I need to make things happen. When in the US, I get a prepaid data card from AT&T, put it in my Nokia, turn on JoikuSpot and have a mobile wifi access point. My MBP and iPhone are happy-happy. I do what I have to do to get by.
It certainly does suck. People obviously get so upset by this because there isn't good enough competition yet to make them jump to another company.
So back on topic, what options are there:
Apple adds iAP to iPad
Jailbreak allows for iAP or USB data through on iPad
I am interesting in seeing what iPad 3G data plans Apple was able to get out of other carriers in other countries.
I think the fact that it is unlocked means they really didn't ask for much. I have unlimited data right now and can stick this very same SIM card in an iPad can march on. It would appear that right now, the US operators are the only backwards, screw the customer to death operators trying to make more money off of existing connections.
I am interesting in seeing what iPad 3G data plans Apple was able to get out of other carriers in other countries.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sapporobabyrtrns
I think the fact that it is unlocked means they really didn't ask for much. I have unlimited data right now and can stick this very same SIM card in an iPad can march on. It would appear that right now, the US operators are the only backwards, screw the customer to death operators trying to make more money off of existing connections.
Are there any indicators at this point, seeing as many countries require unlocked devices or will eventually unlock your iPhone?
I think many were surprised at how low the the data plan was when typically just a data plan for a non-phone these days is $60 for 5GB, hard.
While this a different class of device than a netbook it is Apple's answer to the netbook and possibly a contender for those that want a simply PC-like device between their notebook/desktop and phone/pmp. Here is AT&T's current offering...
And how many of 192 UN member countries (to use one metric) do you need to know to get a B+? 30%? 50%?
I don't know, but Sweeden is not a country, so your comment trying to be humorous failed to get my point of the misspelling by AI. Piece of advice, take time to read comments before trying to be smart, it helps.
That is a horrible argument. So they give you unlimited data usage and you think you are entitled to hook your phone up to any and all devices, make a hub for your neighborhood or school if you wish, using terabytes a month, despite what the contract you signed clearly stipulated all because you see a phone's data network as a mandatory public utility? For frak sakes people!
Apple is not required to recode the iPad OS to connect via Bluetooth for internet access, AT&T isn't required to allow phone tethering to other devices, and we aren't required to buy their products or use their services. Capitalism FTW!
Wow, methinks you are the one with the weak argumentative skills. I didn't say anything about unlimited data usage, terabytes a month, or sharing my data with neighborhood or school. If you're going to counter my arguments, at least use my statements to base them on and not some fabrication.
My point is/was that when it comes to your data plan, AT&T should be viewed no differently than any other Internet Service Provider. If I paid for 5GB of data per month, it should not be up to AT&T to dictate how I consume those 5GB. Or are you the kind of person that believes that your broadband connection at your home should be limited to only one device and any kind of router or switch should be banned for home use because it would allow you to connect your computer, your iPhone, your iPod Touch, and your iPad through your Airport Basestation to your singular Internet connection?
It was funny, but his anger was already building back in that post. He was warned of the rules and just kept on going and going and... I guess when someone has a sense of entitlement in one area it likely carries over to other areas.
I agree, and I hate the term but the buyer must also beware. I'm a big fan of the way several other countries are required by law to break out the details.
Remember when companies offered "unlimited/unlimited", referring to an unlimited data with no black out times? Unlimited means an unlimited amount of usage within your contract, and unlimited amount of data on the device in question. They make that clear. We don't have to like it; we can shop elsewhere. Free Market FTW.
Not for me, at least not for the last two years.
PS: The all-you-can-eat plans may come to an end with the next iPhone in order to prevent this. They may even offer the unlimited but raise the price if they find it too costly. If they do, I'm sure many will jump ship, but that is how the free market works.
All Carriers are moving to a multi-tiered pricing plan for their Data Solutions. Bank on it.
Wow, methinks you are the one with the weak argumentative skills. I didn't say anything about unlimited data usage, terabytes a month, or sharing my data with neighborhood or school. If you're going to counter my arguments, at least use my statements to base them on and not some fabrication.
My point is/was that when it comes to your data plan, AT&T should be viewed no differently than any other Internet Service Provider. If I paid for 5GB of data per month, it should not be up to AT&T to dictate how I consume those 5GB. Or are you the kind of person that believes that your broadband connection at your home should be limited to only one device and any kind of router or switch should be banned for home use because it would allow you to connect your computer, your iPhone, your iPod Touch, and your iPad through your Airport Basestation to your singular Internet connection?
That would have made sense if AT&T didn't offer unlimited plans for the products in question, but they do, so your comments about it being a utility and how you should be allowed to use it in any way you choose regardless of contractual obligations make no sense as my hyperbolical examples clearly showed.
if you get a 3G USB card from AT&T with a 250MB or 5GB limit you are more than welcome to use that connection on any PC you wish. You can even turn on internet sharing and use your machine as a network hub, but that doesn't apply to devices with an unlimited data plan for a specific device, with tethering as a paid option or no option, depending on the device.
As it's been speculated and as AT&T's CEO(?) has recently stated, tiered pricing is inevitable. This may also become a reality with cable providers who will likely be incurring ever increasing internet costs while losing money on TV subscribers.
All Carriers are moving to a multi-tiered pricing plan for their Data Solutions. Bank on it.
Which sucks for me as a rampant abuser of AT&T's data network. \
Apple's made iPhone OS 3.1.3 pretty hack-proof at the moment but I have a suspicion that the prominent hackers may be sitting on a solution they don't want to announce before v4.0 arrives. Here's hoping.
How about network provisioning and proportionality? Their network is built to sustain the population on a proportional basis. Your argument holds no water.
The Finns were smart not to waste a lot of time building cabled networks. There is 3G everywhere, and the coverage is damn good.
They are now building out wifi everywhere as well.
P.S. The population is about 5.2 to 5.3 million with most of that being in the Helsinki, Espoo, Vantaa area.
A country the size of the State of Montana is not that difficult to get wired/wireless.
Comments
He obviously knows; 6 posts later, he congratulated your cited post (on that topic) with, "Best post ever!"
Yech - I was trying to fathom the difference between him on that thread and this one and then he trotted out the family emergency which (could easily explain) a pissy mode.
On one hand I can't see how that would make anyone an apologist for ATT and confuse Apple with a phone company and put words in people's mouth, but actually - in some warped way - I could see that.
I'm not going to fan the BS if he's got (legit) personal problems because I'm not going to get into muck pile with someone dealing with external stress because that would be beyond total douche.
Never freaking mind me (seriously)
I think the problem is that no phone company can afford "limitless" downloads. So "unlimited" has quite a different meaning.
Sometimes it's about the device itself. If it was a phone with email and nothing else, they could offer unlimited and expect 100MB usage. So an unlimited plan might cost $5/mth because they know what the limit will really be. Of course, they'd be safer to call it an "unlimited email" plan, because then people wouldn't get confused.
An iPhone uses much less data than a laptop.
Sometimes it's about the network. Unlimited dialup is very limited. Unlimited GPRS is a lot less than unlimited 3G. That's why the unlimited data plan on the iPhone 3G was $10/mth more than the unlimited data plan on the GSM version of the iPhone.
In the end AT&T protects themselves with a "fair use" policy just in case their calculations are wrong
It's fair that in these scenarios it's not as simple to just tether into an unlimited plan. But in countries where you pay for just 150MB, it's irrelevant.
I disagree. With proper planning, self-healing IN networks, you can do just about anything. The problem is, the operators have you guys (US based customers) by the short ones. There is just a different mentality in Europe verses the US when it comes to providing service. I go well over any current data plan the US carriers offer on a monthly basis and my provider says nothing. I paid for unlimited and that is what I get. I even have a QoS provision in my contract.
You made some good points but it boils down to you guys are just getting screwed.
He obviously knows; 6 posts later, he congratulated your cited post (on that topic) with, "Best post ever!"
It was funny, but his anger was already building back in that post. He was warned of the rules and just kept on going and going and... I guess when someone has a sense of entitlement in one area it likely carries over to other areas.
I think the problem is that no phone company can afford "limitless" downloads. So "unlimited" has quite a different meaning.
I agree, and I hate the term but the buyer must also beware. I'm a big fan of the way several other countries are required by law to break out the details.
Remember when companies offered "unlimited/unlimited", referring to an unlimited data with no black out times? Unlimited means an unlimited amount of usage within your contract, and unlimited amount of data on the device in question. They make that clear. We don't have to like it; we can shop elsewhere. Free Market FTW.
An iPhone uses much less data than a laptop.
Not for me, at least not for the last two years.
PS: The all-you-can-eat plans may come to an end with the next iPhone in order to prevent this. They may even offer the unlimited but raise the price if they find it too costly. If they do, I'm sure many will jump ship, but that is how the free market works.
PS: The all-you-can-eat plans may come to an end with the next iPhone in order to prevent this. They may even offer the unlimited but raise the price if they find it too costly. If they do, I'm sure many will jump ship, but that is how the free market works.
Good point. Once again, the saying goes. No one is forcing anyone to buy these things. I am pissed that Apple does not out-right allow tethering to the iPad. Noting is saying they won't later, but now the word is no. I am inconvenienced by having to carry another phone (Nokia N86 or soon to purchase N900) as my wifi hotspot creator but I have the choice not to. I can either bitch and moan or carry what I need to make things happen. When in the US, I get a prepaid data card from AT&T, put it in my Nokia, turn on JoikuSpot and have a mobile wifi access point. My MBP and iPhone are happy-happy. I do what I have to do to get by.
Good point. Once again, the saying goes. No one is forcing anyone to buy these things. I am pissed that Apple does not out-right allow tethering to the iPad. Noting is saying they won't later, but now the word is no. I am inconvenienced by having to carry another phone (Nokia N86 or soon to purchase N900) as my wifi hotspot creator but I have the choice not to. I can either bitch and moan or carry what I need to make things happen. When in the US, I get a prepaid data card from AT&T, put it in my Nokia, turn on JoikuSpot and have a mobile wifi access point. My MBP and iPhone are happy-happy. I do what I have to do to get by.
It certainly does suck. People obviously get so upset by this because there isn't good enough competition yet to make them jump to another company.
So back on topic, what options are there:
- Apple adds iAP to iPad
- Jailbreak allows for iAP or USB data through on iPad
- Jailbreak allows for iPhone to be WiFi hub
- Netshare for those who already have it
Did I miss any?It certainly does suck. People obviously get so upset by this because there isn't good enough competition yet to make them jump to another company.
So back on topic, what options are there:
- Apple adds iAP to iPad
- Jailbreak allows for iAP or USB data through on iPad
- Jailbreak allows for iPhone to be WiFi hub
- Netshare for those who already have it
Did I miss any?Just JoikuSpot.
I swear buy it. It works. Very elegant solution.
Just JoikuSpot.
I swear buy it. It works. Very elegant solution.
Oh yeah, thanks...
Oh yeah, thanks...
I am interesting in seeing what iPad 3G data plans Apple was able to get out of other carriers in other countries.
I am interesting in seeing what iPad 3G data plans Apple was able to get out of other carriers in other countries.
I think the fact that it is unlocked means they really didn't ask for much. I have unlimited data right now and can stick this very same SIM card in an iPad can march on. It would appear that right now, the US operators are the only backwards, screw the customer to death operators trying to make more money off of existing connections.
Sorry. I was trying to show how the use of a winky emoticon could show an attempt at humor. I should have known you would miss it...
Still, it might have helped if I had been clever enough to come up with Noorway!
Sorry about that. And yeah, the Noorway post was a riot.
I am interesting in seeing what iPad 3G data plans Apple was able to get out of other carriers in other countries.
I think the fact that it is unlocked means they really didn't ask for much. I have unlimited data right now and can stick this very same SIM card in an iPad can march on. It would appear that right now, the US operators are the only backwards, screw the customer to death operators trying to make more money off of existing connections.
Are there any indicators at this point, seeing as many countries require unlocked devices or will eventually unlock your iPhone?
I think many were surprised at how low the the data plan was when typically just a data plan for a non-phone these days is $60 for 5GB, hard.
While this a different class of device than a netbook it is Apple's answer to the netbook and possibly a contender for those that want a simply PC-like device between their notebook/desktop and phone/pmp. Here is AT&T's current offering...
And how many of 192 UN member countries (to use one metric) do you need to know to get a B+? 30%? 50%?
I don't know, but Sweeden is not a country, so your comment trying to be humorous failed to get my point of the misspelling by AI. Piece of advice, take time to read comments before trying to be smart, it helps.
I don't know, but Sweeden is not a country...
I'm pretty sure it's right next to Norwegia.
That is a horrible argument. So they give you unlimited data usage and you think you are entitled to hook your phone up to any and all devices, make a hub for your neighborhood or school if you wish, using terabytes a month, despite what the contract you signed clearly stipulated all because you see a phone's data network as a mandatory public utility? For frak sakes people!
Apple is not required to recode the iPad OS to connect via Bluetooth for internet access, AT&T isn't required to allow phone tethering to other devices, and we aren't required to buy their products or use their services. Capitalism FTW!
Wow, methinks you are the one with the weak argumentative skills. I didn't say anything about unlimited data usage, terabytes a month, or sharing my data with neighborhood or school. If you're going to counter my arguments, at least use my statements to base them on and not some fabrication.
My point is/was that when it comes to your data plan, AT&T should be viewed no differently than any other Internet Service Provider. If I paid for 5GB of data per month, it should not be up to AT&T to dictate how I consume those 5GB. Or are you the kind of person that believes that your broadband connection at your home should be limited to only one device and any kind of router or switch should be banned for home use because it would allow you to connect your computer, your iPhone, your iPod Touch, and your iPad through your Airport Basestation to your singular Internet connection?
Are you challenged some way. Read my tagline.
Did I ever say I do not live in Finland? I work here, I am not FInnish, I am American. Are you really not getting this?
Solipsism explained this to you a while back and you still seem confused.
Swedes call it 'the Helsinki Syndrome'
It was funny, but his anger was already building back in that post. He was warned of the rules and just kept on going and going and... I guess when someone has a sense of entitlement in one area it likely carries over to other areas.
I agree, and I hate the term but the buyer must also beware. I'm a big fan of the way several other countries are required by law to break out the details.
Remember when companies offered "unlimited/unlimited", referring to an unlimited data with no black out times? Unlimited means an unlimited amount of usage within your contract, and unlimited amount of data on the device in question. They make that clear. We don't have to like it; we can shop elsewhere. Free Market FTW.
Not for me, at least not for the last two years.
PS: The all-you-can-eat plans may come to an end with the next iPhone in order to prevent this. They may even offer the unlimited but raise the price if they find it too costly. If they do, I'm sure many will jump ship, but that is how the free market works.
All Carriers are moving to a multi-tiered pricing plan for their Data Solutions. Bank on it.
Wow, methinks you are the one with the weak argumentative skills. I didn't say anything about unlimited data usage, terabytes a month, or sharing my data with neighborhood or school. If you're going to counter my arguments, at least use my statements to base them on and not some fabrication.
My point is/was that when it comes to your data plan, AT&T should be viewed no differently than any other Internet Service Provider. If I paid for 5GB of data per month, it should not be up to AT&T to dictate how I consume those 5GB. Or are you the kind of person that believes that your broadband connection at your home should be limited to only one device and any kind of router or switch should be banned for home use because it would allow you to connect your computer, your iPhone, your iPod Touch, and your iPad through your Airport Basestation to your singular Internet connection?
That would have made sense if AT&T didn't offer unlimited plans for the products in question, but they do, so your comments about it being a utility and how you should be allowed to use it in any way you choose regardless of contractual obligations make no sense as my hyperbolical examples clearly showed.
if you get a 3G USB card from AT&T with a 250MB or 5GB limit you are more than welcome to use that connection on any PC you wish. You can even turn on internet sharing and use your machine as a network hub, but that doesn't apply to devices with an unlimited data plan for a specific device, with tethering as a paid option or no option, depending on the device.
As it's been speculated and as AT&T's CEO(?) has recently stated, tiered pricing is inevitable. This may also become a reality with cable providers who will likely be incurring ever increasing internet costs while losing money on TV subscribers.
All Carriers are moving to a multi-tiered pricing plan for their Data Solutions. Bank on it.
Which sucks for me as a rampant abuser of AT&T's data network.
Apple's made iPhone OS 3.1.3 pretty hack-proof at the moment but I have a suspicion that the prominent hackers may be sitting on a solution they don't want to announce before v4.0 arrives. Here's hoping.
Your point being?
How about network provisioning and proportionality? Their network is built to sustain the population on a proportional basis. Your argument holds no water.
The Finns were smart not to waste a lot of time building cabled networks. There is 3G everywhere, and the coverage is damn good.
They are now building out wifi everywhere as well.
P.S. The population is about 5.2 to 5.3 million with most of that being in the Helsinki, Espoo, Vantaa area.
A country the size of the State of Montana is not that difficult to get wired/wireless.
Someone should make an app for network sharing via Wi-Fi for the iPhone.
"Share my 3G connection with devices using Wi-Fi"
Why has NO ONE brought up jailbreaking and using MyWi? Its $10, one time fee, and it makes your iphone a hotspot(3G and 3GS only)
I use it when im on the road in the states, works great. Even includes a 14 day trial.
Push a button and it starts broadcasting, even has wep and you can choose what channel, just like on your mac. So there is your solution.