Apple's iPhone 4.0 software to deliver multitasking support

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  • Reply 361 of 481
    dasanman69dasanman69 Posts: 13,002member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by iGenius View Post


    Please tell me which conclusions are odd or incorrect. I conclude that for the time period reported by the graph, Android is surging, the Blackberry is increasing its lead over the iPhone, and the iPhone is stagnating WRT market share.



    Is any of that wrong? Can any additional conclusions be drawn?



    There's a really good reason why RIM is so far ahead, but you're not seeing it. BBs get handed out by many companies to their workers. My personal phone is the Droid but I also have a BB Curve issued to me by my job. There are two things about BBs that nobody can even come close to and that's 1. push email 2. security, and that's why they get handed out like water in the corparate world.
  • Reply 362 of 481
    ozexigeozexige Posts: 215member
    Don't worry Genius, I'm not gunna fight ya Pilgrim



    NO, I've read page 6, 7, 8 etc and unlike everyone else



    I'm not gunna hit you Pilgrim



    LIKE HELL!



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by iGenius View Post


    I think the reason it isn't catching on is at least twofold: Their introduction was badly mistimed and their advertising was ineffective. Other folks opine that the hardware isn't good enough, but i am not convinced of that.

    At this point, I am sceptical as to whether there will ever be lots of software available for it. IMO, a platform should be chosen in large part based upon the available software.

    Too bad. I think the product itself is very nice.




    So the iPhone IS the best platform? - In Your Humble Opinion



    However I do agree with you on another point, there is little wrong with the Pre,

    Palm have a good platform,

    they just don't happen to have our mate Steve at the helm - do YOU agree?
  • Reply 363 of 481
    macantmacant Posts: 3member
    After wading through several pages of someone trolling I almost forgot what the topic was. But here's my take.



    People have criticized the iPhone in several areas, and the Android is getting praise, yet the iPhone is still better in those areas. I'll give some examples. The iPhone was blasted for lack of copy/paste, but instead of Apple bottling it and quickly pandering to the vocal nerds they took their sweet time and implemented it properly. Compare with Android which isn't as polished. Then Apple get blasted for enforcing their public API (they declined/removed various apps) yet if they allowed anyone to screw with their private APIs they'd be inadvertently breaking third party apps over time as they update the OS. That's along with all the other App Store news. Meanwhile Android lets the 1% of nerds screw with their marketplace and alienate the 99% of regular users who don't care for the bullshit, like masses of alpha quality apps, device-specific apps, apps asking for root access and so on. Android provide multitasking but its not straightforward to the average user and soaks up resources and battery. Apple take the arguably harder root by providing Push Notification, requiring a huge backend infrastructure (which Apple had to have two attempts at). It would have been MUCH easier for Apple to just provide some half assed multitasking like everyone else.



    Android just hasn't had the same care put into it which we've come to expect from Apple. Providing these things, especially multitasking, is not rocket science. But implementing them WELL is anything but easy. People really seem to lack appreciation for how hard it is to make things work simple.



    There has been several ideas floated about in this thread for how to implement multi-tasking. I don't much care for double clicking the home button to switch between apps - it's too clunky for regular use, especially when toggling between two apps regularly. Someone asked how you'd close an app if we had multitasking - well you'd just press the home button. I can't see Apple changing the way the home button works.



    What I'd personally like is as follows. Swipe two fingers LEFT/RIGHT to switch between apps. Two finger swipe DOWN to return to the home screen without closing the app. And two finger swipe UP for a thumbnail list of running apps. Also, on the home screen all the apps running could be indicated with a blue halo around the icon. If someone wants to close that app they just tap it then press the home button. Or use the app list via the two-finger swipe UP gesture.



    Any apps currently available which already make use of two-finger swipe would just be required to alter their apps before it's classed as OS4 compatible. Practically every app I've used ignores two-finger swipe anyway, so it would be strange to appease 1% of apps while rendering the OS and all other apps less user intuitive.



    I'd also like Apple to encourage separation of UI and engine so that the engine of the app is guaranteed to run but the UI may be closed if running low on memory. So the UI would be frozen, and could be killed off and restored (like many apps already do) when needed.



    Having said all of that, I doubt Apple really want to do any of this. Manually handling whether apps are running is a technical thing which most users don't care about in a device like this, just like Apple have abstracted away the file system and instead switched to using lists in each app. I can see Apple only giving multitasking for background services where each app makes the multitasking aspect transparent to the user, just like the builtin apps currently do.
  • Reply 364 of 481
    dasanman69dasanman69 Posts: 13,002member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Macant View Post


    After wading through several pages of someone trolling I almost forgot what the topic was. But here's my take.



    People have criticized the iPhone in several areas, and the Android is getting praise, yet the iPhone is still better in those areas. I'll give some examples. The iPhone was blasted for lack of copy/paste, but instead of Apple bottling it and quickly pandering to the vocal nerds they took their sweet time and implemented it properly. Compare with Android which isn't as polished. Then Apple get blasted for enforcing their public API (they declined/removed various apps) yet if they allowed anyone to screw with their private APIs they'd be inadvertently breaking third party apps over time as they update the OS. That's along with all the other App Store news. Meanwhile Android lets the 1% of nerds screw with their marketplace and alienate the 99% of regular users who don't care for the bullshit, like masses of alpha quality apps, device-specific apps, apps asking for root access and so on. Android provide multitasking but its not straightforward to the average user and soaks up resources and battery. Apple take the arguably harder root by providing Push Notification, requiring a huge backend infrastructure (which Apple had to have two attempts at). It would have been MUCH easier for Apple to just provide some half assed multitasking like everyone else.



    Android just hasn't had the same care put into it which we've come to expect from Apple. Providing these things, especially multitasking, is not rocket science. But implementing them WELL is anything but easy. People really seem to lack appreciation for how hard it is to make things work simple.



    There has been several ideas floated about in this thread for how to implement multi-tasking. I don't much care for double clicking the home button to switch between apps - it's too clunky for regular use, especially when toggling between two apps regularly. Someone asked how you'd close an app if we had multitasking - well you'd just press the home button. I can't see Apple changing the way the home button works.



    What I'd personally like is as follows. Swipe two fingers LEFT/RIGHT to switch between apps. Two finger swipe DOWN to return to the home screen without closing the app. And two finger swipe UP for a thumbnail list of running apps. Also, on the home screen all the apps running could be indicated with a blue halo around the icon. If someone wants to close that app they just tap it then press the home button. Or use the app list via the two-finger swipe UP gesture.



    Any apps currently available which already make use of two-finger swipe would just be required to alter their apps before it's classed as OS4 compatible. Practically every app I've used ignores two-finger swipe anyway, so it would be strange to appease 1% of apps while rendering the OS and all other apps less user intuitive.



    I'd also like Apple to encourage separation of UI and engine so that the engine of the app is guaranteed to run but the UI may be closed if running low on memory. So the UI would be frozen, and could be killed off and restored (like many apps already do) when needed.



    Having said all of that, I doubt Apple really want to do any of this. Manually handling whether apps are running is a technical thing which most users don't care about in a device like this, just like Apple have abstracted away the file system and instead switched to using lists in each app. I can see Apple only giving multitasking for background services where each app makes the multitasking aspect transparent to the user, just like the builtin apps currently do.



    I always say "making something simple is not simple at all"

    BTW have you seen how the Pre handles multi-tasking, switching between apps, and closing of apps? Palm did a fantastic job, too bad the hardware doesnt follow suit, nor the amount of apps available because I think they'd do much better.
  • Reply 365 of 481
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by iGenius View Post


    No, I am comparing apples lack of progress in market share with the meaning of stagnation.



    Apple's "economic growth" is a totally different subject than their failure to grow market share.



    Tell me how I miscomprehend the definition of stagnation.



    Because you are basing this conclusion on a single quarter it would mean that this is not a clear representation on Apple's actual performance.

    Look at year by year market share and I think it will show you that they are, perhaps, NOT "stagnating". Simply put the most plausible reason for this "stagnation" is:



    1. Apple are just about to (possibly) release a new OS

    2. Apple may release a new iPhone over the next few months

    3. It is possible that this new OS may require the new hardware, as did the introduction of a compass app (as one example) required the magnetometer in the 3GS to function <- though this is a moot point

    4. You are looking at charts from a time period that will be followed, most likely, with all of the above events

    5. THE VERY IMMINENT RELEASE OF iPAD, people may be saving their money to have an iPad as their iOS device
  • Reply 366 of 481
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,510member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by RichL View Post


    A couple of points here:



    1) The buy one get one free deal is between the carrier and the consumer, not RIM and the carrier. RIM certainly aren't taking a 50% hit in revenue per device.

    2) The phones are subsidised by the contract. It's not truly buy one get one free as you still have to pay for two contracts.

    3) The deal was limited to North America. More than half of the iPhone's sales, and most of the growth, is outside of North America now.

    4) The iPhone is offered for free in some parts of the world. Buy none get an unlimited number free!



    You can be sure, that just like Apple, RIM exerts some control over how its products are being sold. It's not likely that Verizon would b offering this deal if RIM didn't participate in some way.



    You're missing the point about the contracts. I'm not so stupid as to not understand that another contract is involved. most people get contracts here, and a lot do abroad as well. Still, the phone is free, and thats a big saving.



    About half the iPhone's sales are still in the USA. Apple could have had at least a million more phones "sold this way. Possibly even doubling the sales here, or about 4 million. No way Apple would go for that.



    There was, as I remember one time where the iPhone was being offered for free with a two year contract. Would you show us all the other places where, as you put it, you can get "Buy none get an unlimited number free!"?
  • Reply 367 of 481
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,510member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post


    I beg to differ. I have a Moto Droid, and it's not because I'm a Apple hater, but AT&T was the deal breaker for me. I think all this talk of "my phone is the best, and yours is a POS" is just silly, and childish.



    No worse that "my network is the best".
  • Reply 368 of 481
    niko03niko03 Posts: 30member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by iGenius View Post


    Would you feel even better if Apple delayed improvements to iOS for two years? Then you'd have the best for even longer.



    Somehow, I suspect that the too-long time lapses between OS improvements is hurting, rather than helping.



    Be somewhat reasonable.



    Apple has issued a major iPhone OS update like clockwork every year in early summer.

    What's the os update cycle for Android? Nokia? WinMo?



    It's also hard for anyone to deliver some earthshattering Os update every 12 months.



    Every year Apple updates its OS and releases updated hardware.

    Further the os update is enjoyed by owners of the older hardware models.



    I see no problem with the update cycle and look forward to the upcoming one.

    If multitasking is included it will be even better.
  • Reply 369 of 481
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by iGenius View Post


    What the heck is taking them so long? In the meantime, Android is surging in popularity and the iOS is stagnating.



    I know there are 367 comments, but this such crap by iGenius, the next column says it all '97.9 percent year-over-year surge in shipments' yeah it really stagnating.



    You need to know your facts before you comment!
  • Reply 370 of 481
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by iGenius View Post


    facts can be your friends: http://gizmodo.com/5490299/android-s...one-stalls-out



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by iGenius View Post


    What the heck is taking them so long? In the meantime, Android is surging in popularity and the iOS is stagnating.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by iGenius View Post


    That's not the only area in which they are behind the curve.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by iGenius View Post


    Some reality: http://gizmodo.com/5490299/android-s...one-stalls-out



    Android much more than doubled in usage since October. RIM is pulling even further ahead of Apple in users. And the proportion of iOS users has gone nowhere in that time period.



    Some folks don't like facts.



    You really need to know how to interpret data correctly before stating your analysis on that factual data. The data is factual, but the way you presented the data to us is inaccurate and fairly native in nature.



    Everyone can interpret data in their own way, but if you can not be fair in providing feedback, wether it is positive or negative, then I was one will ignore your opinions. If it is just your inexperience to interpret data correctly and understand the market, then I suggest you limit your comments, to what you understand.



    You probably take this as personal attack and report me, but I noticed this with you too many times with you, when presenting facts in your comments.
  • Reply 371 of 481
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by FineTunes View Post


    I agree, I was trying to follow this topic and came in late. It's hard to follow some 130 posts taking up 4 pages by 8:30 AM; time I started.



    FYI out of about 353 posts, 61 were from iGenius and about 89 were responses to iGenius. It wouldn't be as bad if the discussion was on topic but arguing about whether the iPhone sales were stagnating is way off topic. The graphs were a joke.



    Leaving this forum for another topic.



    agreed
  • Reply 372 of 481
    finetunesfinetunes Posts: 2,065member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by souliisoul View Post


    I know there are 367 comments, but this such crap by iGenius, the next column says it all '97.9 percent year-over-year surge in shipments' yeah it really stagnating.



    You need to know your facts before you comment!



    Thanks, now the figures are 61 post by iGenius and 95 responses to iGenius, not to mention the off topic post about stagnation of the iPhone. Topic: "Apple's iPhone 4.0 software to deliver multitasking support" See my comments @ #344. Also thought that the graphs took up a lot of space which had nothing to do with the topic. Oh, I forgot my two post so 97 responses to iGenius.
  • Reply 373 of 481
    finetunesfinetunes Posts: 2,065member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by souliisoul View Post


    agreed



    That makes it 98 and 99; anyone want to make it an even 100 responses to iGenius---having a Monk moment.



    And make that starting page 10.
  • Reply 374 of 481
    melgrossmelgross Posts: 33,510member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by FineTunes View Post


    Thanks, now the figures are 61 post by iGenius and 95 responses to iGenius, not to mention the off topic post about stagnation of the iPhone. Topic: "Apple's iPhone 4.0 software to deliver multitasking support" See my comments @ #344. Also thought that the graphs took up a lot of space which had nothing to do with the topic. Oh, I forgot my two post so 97 responses to iGenius.



    Plus the posts of you guys talking about how many posts were spent on him. Enough already!
  • Reply 375 of 481
    addaboxaddabox Posts: 12,665member
    Plus this post by me remarking on Mel's post pointing out the posts about people responding to iGenius.



    And now I must throw myself from a window to break the spell.
  • Reply 376 of 481
    finetunesfinetunes Posts: 2,065member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by melgross View Post


    Plus the posts of you guys talking about how many posts were spent on him. Enough already!



    Sorry\
  • Reply 377 of 481
    hill60hill60 Posts: 6,992member
    Check what you can do with jailbroken iPhones and Android phones.



    Pretty cool, 'ey.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by stokessd View Post


    Once again, the article paints jailbreakers as Malware victims and pirates. Jailbreaking for me has provided functionality that is significant and blatantly missing from the stock OS. Ad blocking, time based silent mode, a lock screen that is useful, better navigation tools and app backgrounding (freeze drying, not really multi-tasking). It's all good stuff and is sorely overdue.



    I also have a unique SMS notification sound. How many of you in a crowded place think you've got an SMS only to find out someone near you did, and you are still so very alone?





    Sheldon



  • Reply 378 of 481
    irelandireland Posts: 17,798member
    The people who want "view all running apps" to be a gesture are missing one very simple thing, a lot of third party apps have gestures.
  • Reply 379 of 481
    icyfogicyfog Posts: 338member
    I am curious to see how Apple tackles this multitasking issue.

    As the iPhone runs now, I like it because of the security it provides. Take that away and I'm a little more worried about the lack of security. I wonder if there will be a way to turn off the multitasking feature.
  • Reply 380 of 481
    carniphagecarniphage Posts: 1,984member
    Theres multi-tasking and there's multi-tasking.



    Ask a member of the public what multi-tasking is, and they mean the ability to deal with multiple activities at once. Anwering the phone while filling the dishwasher.



    Ask a computer scientist about multi-tasking and they will describe a method where the single CPU timeshares between multiple computer programs. This avoids waste by making sure the CPU is always doing something productive. In terms of a phone, the foreground app would be running while some other apps are sharing the CPU- executing in the background.



    I am inclined to think Apple is going to offer the first kind of multi-tasking. And not so much the second.



    C.
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