You know, the simple reality is if you don't like the phone, or it is causing a lot of issues... return it. Simple. Anyone can sue anyone, but that doesn't mean they have a case. Besides, class-action lawsuits are a scam. The only people who benefit are lawyers who exploit the troubles of others, only for you to return with a $6 check.
Don't like it? Don't buy it. Simple as that.
The phone is exceptional, except for this issue, and I would really hate to get rid of it. I've stated in other posts that I could work around the issue, though a case was part of that thinking, long term and according to other posters cases aren't always working, electrical tape had no effect where I am. That could mean that this iPhone just isn't worth the hassle for me to keep. What I am sure about is the way that Apple have dealt with this will mean that if I return it I will do so knowing Apple didn't give a damn about the person that bought it.
And this reply does a good job explaining what is possibly happening:-
"You?re exactly right about the 1-5 bar reading showing a very limited range of signal strength ? at the bottom end of the usable range. This is true of all cellphones, and the bar indicator is only supposed to give a relative indication of likely call quality ? any signal stronger than 5 bars whilst stronger, won?t lead to better call quality so isn?t indicated to the user to keep things simple.
From iPhone OS 1.0 through 3.1.3 there was a ?full range? signal strength reading available ? field test mode, which was a hidden app launched by dialling *3001#12345#* from the phone app. As well as lots of other technical information it would display exact numeric received signal strength in -dBm, (decibel relative to 1 milliwatt) with a range that went far above a 5 bar signal.
To give a sense of scale, -113dBm is approximately the weakest 3G signal an iPhone 3G/3GS can maintain a call or data connection with ? this corresponds with 1 bar. -100dBm (13 dB stronger) corresponds to 5 bars, with 2 ? 4 bars proportionally in between, so the 1 ? 5 bar range is only a 13 dB signal range ? a relatively small range compared to the real world range of received signals.
Any signal stronger than -100dBm would still read 5 bars, and if you were within a few hundred yards of a cell tower it?s possible to get a signal as strong as -70dBm (or more) ? a full 30dB stronger than the minimum signal necessary to show 5 bars.
In that instance you could have almost a 30 dB loss in signal without the reading dropping below 5 bars ? therefore no visible change to the user or dropped call.
From looking at the videos that show the signal dropping from 5 bars to No Service, this means that the person testing it must have only just been receiving a signal strong enough to reach an indicated 5 bars, and the signal must have been attenuated when touched by at least 13dB to reach a point of no service. My estimate is the attenuation is probably around 15-20dB.
So what happened to the field test app, which can display accurate signal strength in decibels over a wide range, and would clear up this whole situation ? It was removed in early beta versions of iOS 4 and remains ?missing in action? in the release version of iOS 4, even on older devices like the 3GS.
Sadly, I don?t think this is a co-incidence.
Another factor that may affect how much change different people are reporting is that different countries use different frequencies for 3G ? AT&T uses 1900 and 850Mhz, (depending on location) while Europe uses primarily 2100Mhz. (With pockets of 900Mhz in a few countries)
At different operating frequencies the standing wave patterns on the antenna elements will be different, leading to certain points on the antenna being more or less sensitive depending on operating frequency. On some operating frequencies the bottom left corner may be an impedance maximum (voltage point) while at other operating frequencies it may not be. Touching a high impedance point of an antenna always detunes it far more than touching a low impedance point.
It?s not clear what Apple can do to solve this issue without a significant redesign of the casing (perhaps disconnecting the bottom section from the rest of the antenna system leaving it ?floating? rather than being connected to the right hand side) or whether people will just have to put up with rubber bumper cases to get the same level of reception as previous models?"
Simon Byrnand
As I live in Australia and have 5 bars (+) everywhere I go on a 2100MHz network with back up from a newly usable (for iPhone 4) 900MHz network AND an 850MHz network also being rolled out, I am quite confident that this will be a non issue for me.
Now if anyone doesn't want their iPhone 4's I'll gladly take them off your hands.
I see a fair mix of original vs. linked to posts between AI and MR, but just the same please note that I had used "linked to" to try to make it clear that the source was elsewhere.
If you don't care for sites that link to others' journalism what are you doing on AI?
I'm here because I hate MR, that's why!
But seriously, don't take my post too seriously. Although I really do hate MR and when people post their shit here. 99.9% of the time we already know what MR has posted long before MR has lifted it from another site.
Problem is you already stated your signal sucks at your location. And of course putting it in your pocket, next to your entire body makes it even worse. That's true of most any cell phone. But when you have a good signal, a simple touch of one fingertip in one critical spot does not wreck havoc on a 3GS. At least it doesn't on my 3GS, or any other phone I owned. A completely different scenario then the iPhone 4 issue.
You don't get to qualify your absolute statement after the fact. You made it, you have to honor it or be a weasel. I came up with an existing user 3GS counter-example that seems to be consistent with the 4G issues and explanations to date.
Where is the person who has taken a signal meter out to verify they have a truly STRONG signal and then broken a call with a single finger? They aren't there. That person does not exist yet. Until they do, you don't have a counter-counter example to impeach mine. You know the convention for displaying 5 bars is a ridiculously low signal strength, roughly defined to be just enough to hold a clean call if there are no other interfering factors, don't you? Less that 5 bars tells you you have dismal signal strength, it isn't the case that 5 bars tells you the signal is strong.
Put up or shut up time. Get that video with a real signal strength meter, not bars, and become a hero to the folks who are complaining.
You don't get to qualify your absolute statement after the fact. You made it, you have to honor it or be a weasel. I came up with an existing user 3GS counter-example that seems to be consistent with the 4G issues and explanations to date.
Where is the person who has taken a signal meter out to verify they have a truly STRONG signal and then broken a call with a single finger? They aren't there. That person does not exist yet. Until they do, you don't have a counter-counter example to impeach mine. You know the convention for displaying 5 bars is a ridiculously low signal strength, roughly defined to be just enough to hold a clean call if there are no other interfering factors, don't you? Less that 5 bars tells you you have dismal signal strength, it isn't the case that 5 bars tells you the signal is strong.
Put up or shut up time. Get that video with a real signal strength meter, not bars, and become a hero to the folks who are complaining.
LOL, yeah your scenario is so much like the issue people are complaining about with their iPhone 4. Let me see if I can list the similarities of the comparison:
1. Your initial signal on your iPhone 3GS is bad to start with at your location. You already experience issues with calls and data. --- The initial signal on the iPhone 4 is good. Calls and data works perfectly on the iPhone 4 at their test location. Cross referenced with a iPhone 3GS showing a good signal and good data rates.
2. You put your phone in your pocket, where your body is touching the entire, or most of the phone. --- The iPhone 4 users are just touching the phone with the tip of a single finger on the seam.
3. The reception on your iPhone 3GS because of 1 & 2 sucks even more then before --- The reception on the iPhone 4 drops calls and/or drastically slows the data rate because of the touch of a single finger tip on one small spot. Calls and data were working perfecting before the touch.
Yeah, you are right. Sorry. They are very similar scenarios. LOL
All these iPhone 4 complaints are not valid. They should just not touch it at the seam. LOL
That was my point. You're speculating, but it could already be way more than that. I can see "you're speculating", but the way you wrote it it looks like you're speculation on the upper end of a number that was made up. The 1% figure is bullshit. It was fed to an Apple Store employee who simply agreed, sort of. But he wouldn't tell, unless he was allowed to, and he wouldn't know enough to agree anyhow. I've seen a few surveys at this stage and the figure looks to be closer to 60% than to 1%, and an awful lot of people are suggesting those who don't have it will eventually notice it when the are in an area that isn't perfect. And not from reception, but from touching the hardware in a certain manner.
Geeesh, it's no wonder people ride your ass on these forums!
If you're going to sit there and call my "speculation" as bullshit and then go on to speculate a different number, WITHOUT ANY CONCRETE EVIDENCE backing up your claim as any less bullshit than mine, then go ahead. But then you must realize then that you're number is no different than mine. This is the same crap i see all the time on Fox News. WHO THE HELL are these "lot of people" and where did you read these "awful lot of surveys" you claim to have proving that your %60 number is any more valid than my 1%???
In my own words, "I'm speculating". I never claimed to have any evidence behind my statements, it was MY OPINION! I threw out a number that has been thrown about here and there, Gizmodo, Engadget, AppleInsider, Macrumors, CNET. I never claimed my information was accurate; and frankly, i don't think ANYONE knows what the percentage here is. Next time i will clearly state "A PERCENTAGE of iPhone 4 devices (with the speculation of perhaps a small amount) out of the 1-2million sold are experiencing problems and it's not cause for a lawsuit YET.
Typical dipshit lawyers. The iPhone 4 gets better reception than my original iPhone. I can make calls now on 3G that I never could before with my original iPhone. Guess what...if you smother the bottom of the original iPhone, the signal drops on that model too. Same with the 3G and 3GS. It is not that hard to hold the phone without blocking the seams.
After the lawsuit, if there is one, you will get a $10 gift card at Apple for your trouble. The lawyers should sue every type of company that broadcasts over the air because things block radio signals. I should sue because FM radio stations are blocked by mountains. How is that possible? Dumbass lawyers.
The level of denial here is amazing. How much would Apple have to screw up before you all stop defending them?
For two years I have had terrible audio quality and dropped calls on my 3G. Yet the iPhone flies off the shelves and the community here makes excuse after excuse for Apple and ATT. "We don't need to make phone calls. We don't need Verizon."
Now that everyone is dropping calls (granted for different reasons) all of a sudden this is so unacceptable we're going to get lawyers. Yeah, it IS maddening when you keep dropping calls, isn't it?
I'm glad the Kool Aid has finally worn off for others as it did for me when I was stranded on the side of the road with no signal on my shiny pretty iPhone.
I have asked it before and will continue to ask: What good is a smartphone that can't make phone calls?
Verizon can go suck it. They had their shot and they told Apple to piss off. I don't know why people think Verizon is so great. Are you really brainwashed by their BS commercials? Guess what? Verizon has drop outs too. Their network has problems too, just like T Mobile, Sprint, etc. Maybe you live in an area with lousy coverage. Maybe it has nothing to do with the phone at all. If you don't like it, sell the phone and switch to another carrier. No one forced you to buy an iPhone.
My iPhone 4 gets far better reception than the original iPhone, and it is quite easy to hold the phone without obstructing the lower half where the antenna is (and where the antenna is on EVERY cell phone in production).
Don't believe everything you read on the Internet.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ski1
Apple is already telling their support they won't fix it. They are telling their customers to avoid touching that spot or buy a case. That it's a normal condition. That's their official stance. No fix. No warranty service. Did you not see the leaked Apple memo to it's employees ?
What we really need is a class action law suit for the arm/elbow strain that will result from holding the iPhone out in front of you in a non-ergonomic position in order to make that hour long facetime call...
So what happened to the field test app, which can display accurate signal strength in decibels over a wide range, and would clear up this whole situation ? It was removed in early beta versions of iOS 4 and remains “missing in action” in the release version of iOS 4, even on older devices like the 3GS.
Sadly, I don’t think this is a co-incidence.
I keep hearing this and wonder, am I the only one that still has this after upgrading my 3GS to iOS 4? As a matter of fact, I'd like to know how to get rid of the numerical representation of the signal as it keeps toggling back between bars and numbers.
LOL, yeah your scenario is so much like the issue people are complaining about with their iPhone 4. Let me see if I can list the similarities of the comparison:
1. Your initial signal on your iPhone 3GS is bad to start with at your location. You already experience issues with calls and data. --- The initial signal on the iPhone 4 is good. Calls and data works perfectly on the iPhone 4 at their test location. Cross referenced with a iPhone 3GS showing a good signal and good data rates.
2. You put your phone in your pocket, where your body is touching the entire, or most of the phone. --- The iPhone 4 users are just touching the phone with the tip of a single finger on the seam.
3. The reception on your iPhone 3GS because of 1 & 2 sucks even more then before --- The reception on the iPhone 4 drops calls and/or drastically slows the data rate because of the touch of a single finger tip on one small spot. Calls and data were working perfecting before the touch.
Yeah, you are right. Sorry. They are very similar scenarios. LOL
All these iPhone 4 complaints are not valid. They should just not touch it at the seam. LOL
Your displayed power of logic and observation is weak enough it is amazing you lived this long.
1) Do you understand ANYTHING about signal strength or bar representation? Your response strongly suggests you do not. At all. What proof can you provide that any of the folks with problems have actual good signal strength? Zero. Thought so. Even Gizmodo went out to slam the phone in good signal strength and they couldn't get it to drop calls until they moved to a low signal strength dropping-of-bars area. Don't you think that's kind of telling?
2) A phone in the pocket isn't touching a conductive body, it is touching non-conductive fabric - this part of my example was just for illustrating low signal strength, but you seem to want to promote it to something more. Why???
3) Duh! That's how signal strength drop-offs work!!! Only those drops don't happen moving from high to medium strength, but they routinely happen on any phone moving from just enough to no longer just enough.
Gawd, provide a new phone with a better antenna that suddenly and seemingly singlehandedly fixes NTC and SF reception issues and now we have drop issues when shorting the antenna. [You don't actually believe ATT magically announced coverage fixes right after the iPhone launch because they installed that much infrastructure do you?] And you don't see a blindingly obvious correlation there???
Here let me spell it out for you -- places where many folks would never have connected before are suddenly connectable because of better phone antennas, but the actual signal strength never really improved so now it is possible in a significant area to have a problem that was never a problem before, because perviously you couldn't even get the connection before. Why not a drop off issue perviously? The actual signal strength was more closer to the tower and power density drops off following a cube function by volume, being closer gave high enough signal strength that for the same fixed human body negative effects, there was still enough signal strength to work.
Yes it's annoying as hell, but it's awful hard to call better hardware broken when it' main effect is just more effectively stressing extreme ranges of the underlying tower infrastructure to a pre-existing failure mode. The finger placement issue needs addressing, I think Apple should cave and pass out bumpers if they cannot push a firmware workaround. My bet is Apple makes the bar representation tougher, so the places that are likely to drop show as three or less bars, it's a pretty simple fix for a more sensitive system -- manage user expectation, make them happy the iPhone works well in lower coverage areas rather than the relatively invisible larger usable range.
Now again -- If you want to prove me wrong, go out with a signal meter, and do the experiment. Show the world you are right. So far everyone else has done it by bars and physical proximity to known towers, and those accounts apparently agree with the weak signal theory.
I am not even an iPhone user and I don't see the big deal here. Having problems with the phone? Return it and go back to a 3GS or 3G. Download iOS4 and you can get your iOS4 apps there. And really, the phone has only been out days. How much could you really have spent on iOS4 apps?
The reason Apple is not being charitable/co-operative is because people aren't returning the phone. You can bet if those 1.7 millions sales turned into 1.7 million returns, and the stock subsequently tanked, that every Apple engineer and consultant they could hire would be working on the problem....if they aren't already.
But I do think Apple was caught with their pants down this time. The fact that they offered the bumpers in the first place, seems to indcate (to me) that they new something was going on and were hoping to head it off (and make more money) by selling the bumpers. Unfortunately, people didn't blame AT&T this time. They blamed Apple. Maybe they found it late in the testing and decided to risk it anyway? I can't see how they didn't catch this at all.
As for the hate on Nokia, I find that funny. So because Nokia's have reception challenges (which are rather miniscule compared to losing service merely holding the phone normally) too, that justifies Apple having an inferior product? What ever happened to, "It just works."? And you really have to try to get a Nokia down to zero signal. A normal, comfortable grip will not cause you to completely lose signal (unless you are in an area of poor reception), and certainly not in 20-30seconds. Then again, you buy a Nokia to make calls. You buy an iphone for the apps.
The Nexus One and there are others. You need just to pull your head out of your butt long enough to search a bit. It is not an uncommon problem.
BS. I've got a Nexus One. Never had a reception issue. I know they had issues when they first came out. But I guess they must have solved them through an update.
But you certainly can't lose service just by holding the thing. Even if you entirely cover the bottom portion. Usually you lose a bar. At worst 2 bars. But I've never lost service for a "death grip".
Geeesh, it's no wonder people ride your ass on these forums!
If you're going to sit there and call my "speculation" as bullshit and then go on to speculate a different number, WITHOUT ANY CONCRETE EVIDENCE backing up your claim as any less bullshit than mine, then go ahead.
As the reviled scurrilous dogs at Gizmodo reveal...
The first iPhone 4 class action suit against Apple and AT&T has been filed today in the United States District Court for the District of Maryland. The lawsuit focus on the antenna design problems, making several claims:
? General Negligence (APPLE and AT&T)
? Defect in Design, Manufacture, and Assembly (APPLE)
? Breach of Express Warranty (APPLE)
? Breach of Implied Warranty for Merchantability (APPLE and AT&T)
? Breach of Implied Warranty of Fitness for a Particular Purpose (APPLE and AT&T)
? Deceptive Trade Practices (APPLE and AT&T)
? Intentional Misrepresentation (APPLE and AT&T)
? Negligent Misrepresentation (APPLE and AT&T)
? Fraud by Concealment (APPLE and AT&T)
Apple has been criticized by iPhone 4 users and media for the antenna reception problems that seem to result from its design. Complains started to appear in MacRumors.com and Gizmodo.com one day before the official launch of the iPhone 4, from users who received their units earlier.
After those initial reports, thousands of users started to report reception and transmission problems in different countries around the world, which resulted in loss of internet connections and voice call drops and voice quality degradation. Other tests have demonstrated the antenna problems since then.
The lawsuit was filed by Ward & Ward, PLLC and Charles A. Gilman, LLC. on behalf of Kevin McCaffrey, Linda Wrinn and a number of other iPhone 4 users. It is not the same iPhone 4 class action lawsuit currently said to be in the works by the California law firm that sued Facebook and Zynga.
Comments
You know, the simple reality is if you don't like the phone, or it is causing a lot of issues... return it. Simple. Anyone can sue anyone, but that doesn't mean they have a case. Besides, class-action lawsuits are a scam. The only people who benefit are lawyers who exploit the troubles of others, only for you to return with a $6 check.
Don't like it? Don't buy it. Simple as that.
The phone is exceptional, except for this issue, and I would really hate to get rid of it. I've stated in other posts that I could work around the issue, though a case was part of that thinking, long term and according to other posters cases aren't always working, electrical tape had no effect where I am. That could mean that this iPhone just isn't worth the hassle for me to keep. What I am sure about is the way that Apple have dealt with this will mean that if I return it I will do so knowing Apple didn't give a damn about the person that bought it.
http://steve.grc.com/2010/06/26/ipho...tenna-problem/
And this reply does a good job explaining what is possibly happening:-
"You?re exactly right about the 1-5 bar reading showing a very limited range of signal strength ? at the bottom end of the usable range. This is true of all cellphones, and the bar indicator is only supposed to give a relative indication of likely call quality ? any signal stronger than 5 bars whilst stronger, won?t lead to better call quality so isn?t indicated to the user to keep things simple.
From iPhone OS 1.0 through 3.1.3 there was a ?full range? signal strength reading available ? field test mode, which was a hidden app launched by dialling *3001#12345#* from the phone app. As well as lots of other technical information it would display exact numeric received signal strength in -dBm, (decibel relative to 1 milliwatt) with a range that went far above a 5 bar signal.
To give a sense of scale, -113dBm is approximately the weakest 3G signal an iPhone 3G/3GS can maintain a call or data connection with ? this corresponds with 1 bar. -100dBm (13 dB stronger) corresponds to 5 bars, with 2 ? 4 bars proportionally in between, so the 1 ? 5 bar range is only a 13 dB signal range ? a relatively small range compared to the real world range of received signals.
Any signal stronger than -100dBm would still read 5 bars, and if you were within a few hundred yards of a cell tower it?s possible to get a signal as strong as -70dBm (or more) ? a full 30dB stronger than the minimum signal necessary to show 5 bars.
In that instance you could have almost a 30 dB loss in signal without the reading dropping below 5 bars ? therefore no visible change to the user or dropped call.
From looking at the videos that show the signal dropping from 5 bars to No Service, this means that the person testing it must have only just been receiving a signal strong enough to reach an indicated 5 bars, and the signal must have been attenuated when touched by at least 13dB to reach a point of no service. My estimate is the attenuation is probably around 15-20dB.
So what happened to the field test app, which can display accurate signal strength in decibels over a wide range, and would clear up this whole situation ? It was removed in early beta versions of iOS 4 and remains ?missing in action? in the release version of iOS 4, even on older devices like the 3GS.
Sadly, I don?t think this is a co-incidence.
Another factor that may affect how much change different people are reporting is that different countries use different frequencies for 3G ? AT&T uses 1900 and 850Mhz, (depending on location) while Europe uses primarily 2100Mhz. (With pockets of 900Mhz in a few countries)
At different operating frequencies the standing wave patterns on the antenna elements will be different, leading to certain points on the antenna being more or less sensitive depending on operating frequency. On some operating frequencies the bottom left corner may be an impedance maximum (voltage point) while at other operating frequencies it may not be. Touching a high impedance point of an antenna always detunes it far more than touching a low impedance point.
It?s not clear what Apple can do to solve this issue without a significant redesign of the casing (perhaps disconnecting the bottom section from the rest of the antenna system leaving it ?floating? rather than being connected to the right hand side) or whether people will just have to put up with rubber bumper cases to get the same level of reception as previous models?"
Simon Byrnand
As I live in Australia and have 5 bars (+) everywhere I go on a 2100MHz network with back up from a newly usable (for iPhone 4) 900MHz network AND an 850MHz network also being rolled out, I am quite confident that this will be a non issue for me.
Now if anyone doesn't want their iPhone 4's I'll gladly take them off your hands.
I see a fair mix of original vs. linked to posts between AI and MR, but just the same please note that I had used "linked to" to try to make it clear that the source was elsewhere.
If you don't care for sites that link to others' journalism what are you doing on AI?
I'm here because I hate MR, that's why!
But seriously, don't take my post too seriously. Although I really do hate MR and when people post their shit here. 99.9% of the time we already know what MR has posted long before MR has lifted it from another site.
Problem is you already stated your signal sucks at your location. And of course putting it in your pocket, next to your entire body makes it even worse. That's true of most any cell phone. But when you have a good signal, a simple touch of one fingertip in one critical spot does not wreck havoc on a 3GS. At least it doesn't on my 3GS, or any other phone I owned. A completely different scenario then the iPhone 4 issue.
You don't get to qualify your absolute statement after the fact. You made it, you have to honor it or be a weasel. I came up with an existing user 3GS counter-example that seems to be consistent with the 4G issues and explanations to date.
Where is the person who has taken a signal meter out to verify they have a truly STRONG signal and then broken a call with a single finger? They aren't there. That person does not exist yet. Until they do, you don't have a counter-counter example to impeach mine. You know the convention for displaying 5 bars is a ridiculously low signal strength, roughly defined to be just enough to hold a clean call if there are no other interfering factors, don't you? Less that 5 bars tells you you have dismal signal strength, it isn't the case that 5 bars tells you the signal is strong.
Put up or shut up time. Get that video with a real signal strength meter, not bars, and become a hero to the folks who are complaining.
You don't get to qualify your absolute statement after the fact. You made it, you have to honor it or be a weasel. I came up with an existing user 3GS counter-example that seems to be consistent with the 4G issues and explanations to date.
Where is the person who has taken a signal meter out to verify they have a truly STRONG signal and then broken a call with a single finger? They aren't there. That person does not exist yet. Until they do, you don't have a counter-counter example to impeach mine. You know the convention for displaying 5 bars is a ridiculously low signal strength, roughly defined to be just enough to hold a clean call if there are no other interfering factors, don't you? Less that 5 bars tells you you have dismal signal strength, it isn't the case that 5 bars tells you the signal is strong.
Put up or shut up time. Get that video with a real signal strength meter, not bars, and become a hero to the folks who are complaining.
LOL, yeah your scenario is so much like the issue people are complaining about with their iPhone 4. Let me see if I can list the similarities of the comparison:
1. Your initial signal on your iPhone 3GS is bad to start with at your location. You already experience issues with calls and data. --- The initial signal on the iPhone 4 is good. Calls and data works perfectly on the iPhone 4 at their test location. Cross referenced with a iPhone 3GS showing a good signal and good data rates.
2. You put your phone in your pocket, where your body is touching the entire, or most of the phone. --- The iPhone 4 users are just touching the phone with the tip of a single finger on the seam.
3. The reception on your iPhone 3GS because of 1 & 2 sucks even more then before --- The reception on the iPhone 4 drops calls and/or drastically slows the data rate because of the touch of a single finger tip on one small spot. Calls and data were working perfecting before the touch.
Yeah, you are right. Sorry. They are very similar scenarios. LOL
All these iPhone 4 complaints are not valid. They should just not touch it at the seam. LOL
That was my point. You're speculating, but it could already be way more than that. I can see "you're speculating", but the way you wrote it it looks like you're speculation on the upper end of a number that was made up. The 1% figure is bullshit. It was fed to an Apple Store employee who simply agreed, sort of. But he wouldn't tell, unless he was allowed to, and he wouldn't know enough to agree anyhow. I've seen a few surveys at this stage and the figure looks to be closer to 60% than to 1%, and an awful lot of people are suggesting those who don't have it will eventually notice it when the are in an area that isn't perfect. And not from reception, but from touching the hardware in a certain manner.
Geeesh, it's no wonder people ride your ass on these forums!
If you're going to sit there and call my "speculation" as bullshit and then go on to speculate a different number, WITHOUT ANY CONCRETE EVIDENCE backing up your claim as any less bullshit than mine, then go ahead. But then you must realize then that you're number is no different than mine. This is the same crap i see all the time on Fox News. WHO THE HELL are these "lot of people" and where did you read these "awful lot of surveys" you claim to have proving that your %60 number is any more valid than my 1%???
In my own words, "I'm speculating". I never claimed to have any evidence behind my statements, it was MY OPINION! I threw out a number that has been thrown about here and there, Gizmodo, Engadget, AppleInsider, Macrumors, CNET. I never claimed my information was accurate; and frankly, i don't think ANYONE knows what the percentage here is. Next time i will clearly state "A PERCENTAGE of iPhone 4 devices (with the speculation of perhaps a small amount) out of the 1-2million sold are experiencing problems and it's not cause for a lawsuit YET.
Excuse me for throwing out a number!
After the lawsuit, if there is one, you will get a $10 gift card at Apple for your trouble. The lawyers should sue every type of company that broadcasts over the air because things block radio signals. I should sue because FM radio stations are blocked by mountains. How is that possible? Dumbass lawyers.
The level of denial here is amazing. How much would Apple have to screw up before you all stop defending them?
For two years I have had terrible audio quality and dropped calls on my 3G. Yet the iPhone flies off the shelves and the community here makes excuse after excuse for Apple and ATT. "We don't need to make phone calls. We don't need Verizon."
Now that everyone is dropping calls (granted for different reasons) all of a sudden this is so unacceptable we're going to get lawyers. Yeah, it IS maddening when you keep dropping calls, isn't it?
I'm glad the Kool Aid has finally worn off for others as it did for me when I was stranded on the side of the road with no signal on my shiny pretty iPhone.
I have asked it before and will continue to ask: What good is a smartphone that can't make phone calls?
Verizon can go suck it. They had their shot and they told Apple to piss off. I don't know why people think Verizon is so great. Are you really brainwashed by their BS commercials? Guess what? Verizon has drop outs too. Their network has problems too, just like T Mobile, Sprint, etc. Maybe you live in an area with lousy coverage. Maybe it has nothing to do with the phone at all. If you don't like it, sell the phone and switch to another carrier. No one forced you to buy an iPhone.
My iPhone 4 gets far better reception than the original iPhone, and it is quite easy to hold the phone without obstructing the lower half where the antenna is (and where the antenna is on EVERY cell phone in production).
Don't believe everything you read on the Internet.
Apple is already telling their support they won't fix it. They are telling their customers to avoid touching that spot or buy a case. That it's a normal condition. That's their official stance. No fix. No warranty service. Did you not see the leaked Apple memo to it's employees ?
Looks like the leeches are out to make a fast buck. In the end the lawyers get millions, and the members of the class action each get a $10 coupon.
Word.
So what happened to the field test app, which can display accurate signal strength in decibels over a wide range, and would clear up this whole situation ? It was removed in early beta versions of iOS 4 and remains “missing in action” in the release version of iOS 4, even on older devices like the 3GS.
Sadly, I don’t think this is a co-incidence.
I keep hearing this and wonder, am I the only one that still has this after upgrading my 3GS to iOS 4? As a matter of fact, I'd like to know how to get rid of the numerical representation of the signal as it keeps toggling back between bars and numbers.
LOL, yeah your scenario is so much like the issue people are complaining about with their iPhone 4. Let me see if I can list the similarities of the comparison:
1. Your initial signal on your iPhone 3GS is bad to start with at your location. You already experience issues with calls and data. --- The initial signal on the iPhone 4 is good. Calls and data works perfectly on the iPhone 4 at their test location. Cross referenced with a iPhone 3GS showing a good signal and good data rates.
2. You put your phone in your pocket, where your body is touching the entire, or most of the phone. --- The iPhone 4 users are just touching the phone with the tip of a single finger on the seam.
3. The reception on your iPhone 3GS because of 1 & 2 sucks even more then before --- The reception on the iPhone 4 drops calls and/or drastically slows the data rate because of the touch of a single finger tip on one small spot. Calls and data were working perfecting before the touch.
Yeah, you are right. Sorry. They are very similar scenarios. LOL
All these iPhone 4 complaints are not valid. They should just not touch it at the seam. LOL
Your displayed power of logic and observation is weak enough it is amazing you lived this long.
1) Do you understand ANYTHING about signal strength or bar representation? Your response strongly suggests you do not. At all. What proof can you provide that any of the folks with problems have actual good signal strength? Zero. Thought so. Even Gizmodo went out to slam the phone in good signal strength and they couldn't get it to drop calls until they moved to a low signal strength dropping-of-bars area. Don't you think that's kind of telling?
2) A phone in the pocket isn't touching a conductive body, it is touching non-conductive fabric - this part of my example was just for illustrating low signal strength, but you seem to want to promote it to something more. Why???
3) Duh! That's how signal strength drop-offs work!!! Only those drops don't happen moving from high to medium strength, but they routinely happen on any phone moving from just enough to no longer just enough.
Gawd, provide a new phone with a better antenna that suddenly and seemingly singlehandedly fixes NTC and SF reception issues and now we have drop issues when shorting the antenna. [You don't actually believe ATT magically announced coverage fixes right after the iPhone launch because they installed that much infrastructure do you?] And you don't see a blindingly obvious correlation there???
Here let me spell it out for you -- places where many folks would never have connected before are suddenly connectable because of better phone antennas, but the actual signal strength never really improved so now it is possible in a significant area to have a problem that was never a problem before, because perviously you couldn't even get the connection before. Why not a drop off issue perviously? The actual signal strength was more closer to the tower and power density drops off following a cube function by volume, being closer gave high enough signal strength that for the same fixed human body negative effects, there was still enough signal strength to work.
Yes it's annoying as hell, but it's awful hard to call better hardware broken when it' main effect is just more effectively stressing extreme ranges of the underlying tower infrastructure to a pre-existing failure mode. The finger placement issue needs addressing, I think Apple should cave and pass out bumpers if they cannot push a firmware workaround. My bet is Apple makes the bar representation tougher, so the places that are likely to drop show as three or less bars, it's a pretty simple fix for a more sensitive system -- manage user expectation, make them happy the iPhone works well in lower coverage areas rather than the relatively invisible larger usable range.
Now again -- If you want to prove me wrong, go out with a signal meter, and do the experiment. Show the world you are right. So far everyone else has done it by bars and physical proximity to known towers, and those accounts apparently agree with the weak signal theory.
The reason Apple is not being charitable/co-operative is because people aren't returning the phone. You can bet if those 1.7 millions sales turned into 1.7 million returns, and the stock subsequently tanked, that every Apple engineer and consultant they could hire would be working on the problem....if they aren't already.
But I do think Apple was caught with their pants down this time. The fact that they offered the bumpers in the first place, seems to indcate (to me) that they new something was going on and were hoping to head it off (and make more money) by selling the bumpers. Unfortunately, people didn't blame AT&T this time. They blamed Apple. Maybe they found it late in the testing and decided to risk it anyway? I can't see how they didn't catch this at all.
As for the hate on Nokia, I find that funny. So because Nokia's have reception challenges (which are rather miniscule compared to losing service merely holding the phone normally) too, that justifies Apple having an inferior product? What ever happened to, "It just works."? And you really have to try to get a Nokia down to zero signal. A normal, comfortable grip will not cause you to completely lose signal (unless you are in an area of poor reception), and certainly not in 20-30seconds. Then again, you buy a Nokia to make calls. You buy an iphone for the apps.
The Nexus One and there are others. You need just to pull your head out of your butt long enough to search a bit. It is not an uncommon problem.
BS. I've got a Nexus One. Never had a reception issue. I know they had issues when they first came out. But I guess they must have solved them through an update.
But you certainly can't lose service just by holding the thing. Even if you entirely cover the bottom portion. Usually you lose a bar. At worst 2 bars. But I've never lost service for a "death grip".
Geeesh, it's no wonder people ride your ass on these forums!
If you're going to sit there and call my "speculation" as bullshit and then go on to speculate a different number, WITHOUT ANY CONCRETE EVIDENCE backing up your claim as any less bullshit than mine, then go ahead.
Ok then, here's a poll:
http://www.macrumors.com/2010/06/26/...oss-by-region/
Of the iPhone 4 owners that took the poll 55% have the issue. That's 22,385 out of 41,304. That's more 'evidence' than you have. Just sayin'
Ok then, here's a poll:
http://www.macrumors.com/2010/06/26/...oss-by-region/
Of the iPhone 4 owners that took the poll 55% have the issue. That's 22,385 out of 41,304. That's more 'evidence' than you have. Just sayin'
Lord love a duck!
I could create a poll that shows that 55% of a certain group of people believe 100 angels can fit on the head of a pin.
Without scientific data it still means zilch.
The first iPhone 4 class action suit against Apple and AT&T has been filed today in the United States District Court for the District of Maryland. The lawsuit focus on the antenna design problems, making several claims:
? General Negligence (APPLE and AT&T)
? Defect in Design, Manufacture, and Assembly (APPLE)
? Breach of Express Warranty (APPLE)
? Breach of Implied Warranty for Merchantability (APPLE and AT&T)
? Breach of Implied Warranty of Fitness for a Particular Purpose (APPLE and AT&T)
? Deceptive Trade Practices (APPLE and AT&T)
? Intentional Misrepresentation (APPLE and AT&T)
? Negligent Misrepresentation (APPLE and AT&T)
? Fraud by Concealment (APPLE and AT&T)
Apple has been criticized by iPhone 4 users and media for the antenna reception problems that seem to result from its design. Complains started to appear in MacRumors.com and Gizmodo.com one day before the official launch of the iPhone 4, from users who received their units earlier.
After those initial reports, thousands of users started to report reception and transmission problems in different countries around the world, which resulted in loss of internet connections and voice call drops and voice quality degradation. Other tests have demonstrated the antenna problems since then.
The lawsuit was filed by Ward & Ward, PLLC and Charles A. Gilman, LLC. on behalf of Kevin McCaffrey, Linda Wrinn and a number of other iPhone 4 users. It is not the same iPhone 4 class action lawsuit currently said to be in the works by the California law firm that sued Facebook and Zynga.
One of many, methinks.
Start your paper-shredders Cupertino.