Android-based smartphone shipments leapfrog Apple's iPhone

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  • Reply 221 of 351
    guch20guch20 Posts: 173member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Jetz View Post


    Except that there's really not much in the way of Android development of tablets yet (unless you count that POS that Archos put out), though stuff like the Dell Streak will be out shortly. Not that that's an excuse. But it is the reason why Android is largely looked upon as a phone OS.



    I get that, but it's hardly Apple's fault that they have been in the lead compared to Google when it comes to using their mobile operating system for devices besides phones. In fact, this and Android as a whole kind of shows how Google is turning into the new Microsoft: They don't innovate, they imitate. Sure, Apple didn't invent the smartphone or the tablet computer, but many would argue they perfected it and showed others how it should be done, and Google decides that since they can't be first, they'll pull a Microsoft, steal the idea, and dominate the market.



    Apple are just foolish for allowing it to happen again. You'd have to believe there was something they could have done to prevent it.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Jetz View Post


    I do agree with you that they should be comparing OS to OS. But I don't see why people are so sensitive about these reports. They are meant to slander Apple. These reports are put out routinely to assess the state of the mobile market. So naturally they look only at mobile phones.



    The problem is that people do use these reports as a cudgel to slam Apple and Apple fans. Some of us take offense to that. It's human nature to pick a side and cheer for it, and some even argue about why their side is better than the other side. It's the same reason sports are so popular.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Jetz View Post


    Android is not all that far behind. If Apple is selling about 22 million (12 million iPhones+8 million iPads+2 million iTouch) iDevices per quarter that's about 245 000 sales/activations per day. Google's already at 200 000 per day (up from 160k per day from a mere two months ago) and they aren't exactly showing signs of slowing down. I wouldn't call it a comfortable margin anymore.



    Keep in mind that they beat Blackberry in the US, 18 months earlier than what most analysts predicted. Android is clearly emerging as a solid competitor.



    Not that I doubt your numbers, but I'd have to see it broken down by an honest, impartial party before I believe any sales figures for either side.



    However, even if the numbers show that Android devices are only selling 50,000 per month, the fact remains that Apple is the only company manufacturing iOS devices, so the time will come when Android devices are in more hands than iOS devices, simply because there are dozens and dozens of such devices by several different manufacturers. It's the law of averages.



    The time will come when, no matter what set of data one looks at, Apple will not be number one in the battle between iOS and Android when it comes to total sales. This is exactly what Google set out to do, just as Microsoft set out to do the same in the world of PCs.



    The more things change, the more they stay the same...
  • Reply 222 of 351
    jfanningjfanning Posts: 3,398member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by guch20 View Post


    Apparently comparing two things on a level playing field is a difficult concept for you to understand. If you can't see why those comparisons are crap, I really can't help you and we really can't go any further in this discussion.



    It's all the same, really. You aren't going to change my mind and I'm not going to change yours.



    I'm not going to change my mind as there is only one way of recording smartphone sales, only count the devices that are smartphones. So iPod touches and iPads don't get counted, and for Android, only the smartphone models get counted. How else are you going to compare the sales numbers of smartphone phone OS's if you start counting other devices as well?
  • Reply 223 of 351
    jetzjetz Posts: 1,293member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by guch20 View Post


    I'd argue that it has less to do with the quality of the apps (which, granted, I have heard a few complaints about) and more to do with the iTunes ecosystem Apple has spent years building and perfect that makes it so convenient to buy apps and songs and movies and TV shows and share those things between devices. People have shown they are willing to download Android apps; they just haven't shown a willingness to pay for those apps.



    Add to this the fact that piracy is rampant in Google's open garden, and you have a lot of developers who are unwilling to take the risk with developing for Android.



    Oh please. That's the Apple Kool Aid talking. How many iPhone users buy all their music from iTunes? Heck, how many Mac users buy all their stuff from iTunes? I can count on one hand the number of times I've bought something from iTunes on my Mac. This idea that somehow people buy more apps because of an ecosystem that also sells them music is BS. It really comes down to the quality of the apps. And I say that as an Android user. Why would I buy something I don't like? Make me an app I want to pay for and I will. And I have.



    In any event, if the concern is about the ecosystem, I do believe they are adding music and movies to Android Market soon. So they'll be rounding out the ecosystem as well. Though I just don't buy your line of reasoning.



    And then there's also the fact that many things that are apps on iOS are included functionality on Android. How well would a TomTom app sell on Android when Google gives you navigation for free...and let's face it, nobody gets a smartphone without a data plan to fuel that navigation feature.



    As for piracy being rampant, more Apple flavoured propaganda. I am sure there's some piracy. But it's not as widespread as Android haters would have you believe. Seriously, crap like this is just like Apple haters overblowing antennagate. And if developers are so scared to develop for Android why has Android Market grown at the pace it has (albeit not to the size of the App store). It's got room to improve to be sure. But I really doubt developers are staying away from Android. If you have evidence to the contrary, I'd like to see it.
  • Reply 224 of 351
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by guch20 View Post


    I'd argue that it has less to do with the quality of the apps (which, granted, I have heard a few complaints about) and more to do with the iTunes ecosystem Apple has spent years building and perfect that makes it so convenient to buy apps and songs and movies and TV shows and share those things between devices. People have shown they are willing to download Android apps; they just haven't shown a willingness to pay for those apps.



    Add to this the fact that piracy is rampant in Google's open garden, and you have a lot of developers who are unwilling to take the risk with developing for Android.



    I think this leads right back into the argument that the quality of Android apps are just starting to rise. Personally, I have no issues paying for apps if I use them on a daily basis. Even more so if it leads to huge updates to polish them and add more features. I know this to be true of many of my Android friends as well. If you go to any Android forum, you'll see a lot of users asking for ports of iOS apps for the same price, so the demand is there.



    It's one of those circular logic things. Android users demand these apps, but the iOS developers are slightly hesitant to go to Android because they're comfortable where they are. But a lot of developers are starting to take the leap by putting out a free version of their app to test the waters (so to speak).



    As for the piracy, I don't believe it's any more rampant than what's on iOS. Google is taking many steps with the developers to ensure that apps can't be copied from one device to another. One method they're rolling out is to have the app ping the servers with the phone's Google account (since an Android phone must have a unique account to activate). If it's on the list of accounts that has purchased the app, it'll let it run. If not, it blocks it from running or limits it to its free functions.
  • Reply 225 of 351
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by guch20 View Post


    Android isn't a smartphone either, it's an operating system; just as iOS is an operating system. Seems if we're going to be talking about which operating systems dominates in the "units sold" department, we should compare operating system to operating system.



    [] So either compare mobile OS to mobile OS sales by combining iPad, iPod, and iPhone sales against everything running Android, or compare hardware manufacturer product to hardware manufacturer product, which in this case would be Google's Nexus One vs. Apple's iPhone.



    Agreed. I envision also that, in a couple of years, voice calling as we know it is going to start a slow decline, paced by the speed of deployment and adoption of 3G-enabled (and 4G and so on) and communications-ready devices such as Apple is now ready to start deploying. When iPod Touch gets its 3G micro-SIM like the iPad and both get their front-facing camera, and as FaceTime inevitably becomes widespread, the lines between iPhone/iPod/iPad will start to blur, and in a few years they'll be a single product line (or maybe two, with functions that we maybe don't even dream of) only with different sizes/form factors and extra hardware specs for catering to slightly different customer needs and price-points. Just like Macs are today: varying sizes and shapes and qualities but all serving the same OS and mostly performing the same main functions.
  • Reply 226 of 351
    jetzjetz Posts: 1,293member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by guch20 View Post


    Not that I doubt your numbers, but I'd have to see it broken down by an honest, impartial party before I believe any sales figures for either side.



    See solipsism's math based on Apple's reporting. I might even be overly-generous assuming 22 million iDevices sold per quarter. That would assume every iPod sold was an iPod Touch.



    I think there's a solid possibility that Android might just beat iPhone 4's launch quarter results. Though, realistically, I expect a few quarters of horse trading before Android definitively grabs the crown. But so far, Android has put up an impressive performance. The've risen to number one in the US a full 18 months before most had predicted it would happen. And producing 900%+ increase in global market share in the smartphone market, in one year is no small feat.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by guch20 View Post


    However, even if the numbers show that Android devices are only selling 50,000 per month, the fact remains that Apple is the only company manufacturing iOS devices, so the time will come when Android devices are in more hands than iOS devices, simply because there are dozens and dozens of such devices by several different manufacturers. It's the law of averages.



    The time will come when, no matter what set of data one looks at, Apple will not be number one in the battle between iOS and Android when it comes to total sales. This is exactly what Google set out to do, just as Microsoft set out to do the same in the world of PCs.



    The more things change, the more they stay the same...



    Jobs made Apple's bed and now he has to lie in it. To some extent, the rate of innovation on iOS has really slowed down. And it almost seems like they are resorting to gimmickry to sell iPhones. Facetime, for example, is nice. But a major selling feature? When you have to put out something that most iPhone 4 owners might not get to use in the entire life of their contract, you're starting to get desperate. Other big innovation? Folders. Oooh. Seriously, I expected better from Apple this time around. Where's all their cloud stuff? Where's over the air updates? Cloud2device sync for apps? What about universal voice-to-text and voice commands like this:



    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gGbYVvU0Z5s



    It seems to me like Apple got a little lazy at the top and thought that their huge lead in apps, and their media selling ecosystem would assure them the top spot perpetually. So they got lazy on cloud. Apple seems committed to trying to push content off the net and onto apps. That's how a device maker thinks. Google on the other hand, being an internet company understands its power and the potential of the cloud like nobody else really does. And that's taking them to new heights of innovation. For them, a phone is just a near-dumb portal to the cloud. I wish Apple would step up their game. I'd love to see how they handle cloud based computing and integrate it with the mobile space.
  • Reply 227 of 351
    jetzjetz Posts: 1,293member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by AsianBob View Post


    I think this leads right back into the argument that the quality of Android apps are just starting to rise. Personally, I have no issues paying for apps if I use them on a daily basis. Even more so if it leads to huge updates to polish them and add more features. I know this to be true of many of my Android friends as well. If you go to any Android forum, you'll see a lot of users asking for ports of iOS apps for the same price, so the demand is there.



    It's one of those circular logic things. Android users demand these apps, but the iOS developers are slightly hesitant to go to Android because they're comfortable where they are. But a lot of developers are starting to take the leap by putting out a free version of their app to test the waters (so to speak).



    +1



    Indeed, the most popular apps are likely to be the ones that got ported from the App Store....especially when it comes to gaming.
  • Reply 228 of 351
    tenobelltenobell Posts: 7,014member
    No I did not say anyone was going out of business. I said Android could be the number 1 OS in the world and its possible anyone of them "can" go out of business.



    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Jetz View Post


    Are you seriously going to suggest that with sales like this any of the major Android OEMs are at risk of being out of business soon? Android is single handedly saving Motorola and Sony Ericsson. I'd bet on Nokia going under before those two at this juncture. Though Nokia would probably jump on the Android bandwagon before then.



  • Reply 229 of 351
    asianbobasianbob Posts: 797member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Jetz View Post


    +1



    Indeed, the most popular apps are likely to be the ones that got ported from the App Store....especially when it comes to gaming.



    Games are exactly where the money's at. Android has plenty of general apps, but there's clearly a lack of the same quality of games found on iOS. Games have always been a huge profit driver in the software world.



    I believe there's a huge untapped market in cross-platform gaming now that Android's out in such large numbers. Give me a quality game that I can play with all my friends, regardless if they own an iDevice or Android device and I won't hesitate to pay for it.
  • Reply 230 of 351
    realisticrealistic Posts: 1,154member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Postulant View Post


    How many different phones ship running Symbian, RIM, and Android? We already know how many ship with iOS.



    Contrary to popular belief, seems to me that devices running Android compete more with each other rather than with the iPhone. I mean, don't the sales of the Droid X hurt the sales of the Evo(just an example)? Which makes me wonder just how many Droid Xs would Verizon sell if it didn't compete with the other Android devices. 8,000,000 per quarter maybe? Thoughts?





    I seriously doubt the iPhone's numbers would be as high if say there were 10 other phones shipping with iOS.



    Considering that iOS is what makes the iPhone an iPhone how could you possibly be wrong?
  • Reply 231 of 351
    cnocbuicnocbui Posts: 3,613member
    Speaking of cloud services, part of me still thinks that the data centre Apple are constructing, may not be entirely intended for that supposed purpose, as everyone seems to assume.



    I wonder if it is actually going to be used as a basis for a search engine to rival Google. Steve Jobs' ultimate incarnation of the principle of - 'don't get mad, get even' - vis a vis Googles encroachment upon their turf with Android.



    The lack of obvious hiring of people with relevant expertise would tend to argue against this, but neither have I seen any evidence of hiring of staff with cloud computing expertise.



    The whole operation is a very deep secret and I suspect it's true function will both hurt Google and profit Apple.



    In other news, Google say they are activating 200,000 Android devices per day. That's around 71 million per year.
  • Reply 232 of 351
    anonymouseanonymouse Posts: 6,926member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Jetz View Post


    ... Where's all their cloud stuff? Where's over the air updates? Cloud2device sync for apps? ... Google on the other hand, being an internet company understands its power and the potential of the cloud like nobody else really does. ...



    Yes, the "power and the potential of the cloud" to Google is the opportunity to get their hands on more of your data, further invade your privacy, and add to their e-dossier on you. Why should Apple implement something on iOS that helps Google violate customers privacy? And does anyone really still trust Google after their hypocritical sellout on net neutrality?
  • Reply 233 of 351
    anonymouseanonymouse Posts: 6,926member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post


    No I did not say anyone was going out of business. I said Android could be the number 1 OS in the world and its possible anyone of them "can" go out of business.



    Right, just like any number of Windows PC manufacturers have gone out of business.
  • Reply 234 of 351
    anonymouseanonymouse Posts: 6,926member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Jetz View Post


    Jobs made Apple's bed and now he has to lie in it. To some extent, the rate of innovation on iOS has really slowed down. And it almost seems like they are resorting to gimmickry to sell iPhones. Facetime, for example, is nice. But a major selling feature?



    FaceTime is gimmickry? How is anyone supposed to take you seriously when you write stupid things like this. And Android's big innovation is cloud services? Wow, that's some innovation there.



    Maybe you are right, maybe Android is the new Windows, and Google is the new Microsoft, and the Android fans are just as clueless as the Windows fans always have been. I do think Android mostly appeals to the same type of person Windows always has.



    (Don't get too excited that your posts were replied to, I just skipped to the end of the thread.)
  • Reply 235 of 351
    tulkastulkas Posts: 3,757member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by cnocbui View Post


    Speaking of cloud services, part of me still thinks that the data centre Apple are constructing, may not be entirely intended for that supposed purpose, as everyone seems to assume.



    I wonder if it is actually going to be used as a basis for a search engine to rival Google. Steve Jobs' ultimate incarnation of the principle of - 'don't get mad, get even' - vis a vis Googles encroachment upon their turf with Android.



    The lack of obvious hiring of people with relevant expertise would tend to argue against this, but neither have I seen any evidence of hiring of staff with cloud computing expertise.



    The whole operation is a very deep secret and I suspect it's true function will both hurt Google and profit Apple.



    In other news, Google say they are activating 200,000 Android devices per day. That's around 71 million per year.



    Possible, but I don't think it is a direct challenge to google. More like taking a smallish portion of google's search business on iOS. I don't think Apple has any interest in getting into the general search engine business. A single data centre, no matter how large, is not going to threaten google's search business. Googles has dozens of full sized data centers around the world as well as their untold number of secret drive and drop shipping container data centres. Even MS is believed to have about half as many data centers operating and they were expected to bring about 50% more online this year. Even though Apple's new centre will be huge, being a single data centre just does not give them the scale or scope to compete with or threaten google.



    As for Apple hiring staff with cloud computing experience, they already have their MobileMe team, which I expect is growing, they have their iTunes team and the have their acquisition of lala which buys them expertise with cloud based media delivery. They may not have as many 'cloud' experts as google but they have some and Apple has always shown they are willing to stay lean with small teams in order to remain flexible, but it has usually worked for them. They also recent acquired Siri, the Virtual Assistant company.



    They do seem to have some interest in search. I am sure they could use their data centre to power the Siri searches, but those searches are much more narrowly focused than google searches. If you are doing general knowledge or trivia questions, you would use google. If you are looking for a local restaurant or want a taxi, you might use Apple/Siri. It is an encroachment on google's turf, but doesn't seem threatening to me.
  • Reply 236 of 351
    nhtnht Posts: 4,522member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post


    Right, just like any number of Windows PC manufacturers have gone out of business.



    Er, Micron (not longer sells PC), Gateway (now part of Acer), Packard Bell (now part of Acer), eMachines (now part of Acer), Compaq (now part of HP), IBM (sold to Lenovo) There are probably a couple other name brands I don't recall that are now gone.
  • Reply 237 of 351
    mac voyermac voyer Posts: 1,294member
    Well, here we go again.



    1. There is no Android phone; there is only an Android OS

    2. Google does not make phones.

    3. Google does not sell an OS; they give it away for free.

    4. Google does not sell any product to end users: they tried that and failed.

    5. Apple sells premium smartphones to endusers.

    6. Google collects and sells end user personal information to advertisers. The OS is just a data collection mechanism; the phone is an afterthought.

    7. No single phone, 10 phones, or fifty phones running Android OS equal the sales of the iPhone.



    Class dismissed.
  • Reply 238 of 351
    asianbobasianbob Posts: 797member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Mac Voyer View Post


    Well, here we go again.



    7. No single phone, 10 phones, or fifty phones running Android OS equal the sales of the iPhone.



    Class dismissed.



    Umm...clearly the title of this thread is "Android-based smartphones leapfrog Apple iPhone". Data that the article references claims otherwise to your statement above...
  • Reply 239 of 351
    mac voyermac voyer Posts: 1,294member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by AsianBob View Post


    Umm...clearly the title of this thread is "Android-based smartphones leapfrog Apple iPhone". Data that the article references claims otherwise to your statement above...



    Nope. Not long ago, a survey showed that there were 60 Android handsets, and together, they, were able to overtake the iPhone. That was just before the Galaxy series of phones. So, as of a few weeks ago, you needed sixty Android devices to equal the iPhone sales.
  • Reply 240 of 351
    tulkastulkas Posts: 3,757member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Mac Voyer View Post


    Nope. Not long ago, a survey showed that there were 60 Android handsets, and together, they, were able to overtake the iPhone. That was just before the Galaxy series of phones. So, as of a few weeks ago, you needed sixty Android devices to equal the iPhone sales.



    Faulty logic. While there maybe 60 or even a thousand Android models*, you cannot make the leap to say it takes all of these models to equal or surpass the iPhone sales. It could be that only 3 of the top selling Android are enough. Or 10 or 20. Unfortunately, the numbers do not break down between Android models.



    *Are there even 60 models currently for sale? Or is that number all of the Android models ever released? There seems to be models introduced and retired every couple weeks.
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