Sorry but Android is a doomed OS, not a survivor. Oracle's lawsuit has merit, there is clear legal precedent (Microsoft paid Sun $20 million for a similar Java license violation) and Larry Ellison won't settle out of court.
It's not a patent violation, where one party can counter-sue to force an out-of-court settlement. It's a violation of the *license agreement* because Android's implementation of Java is not 100% compliant. And, according to the Java license agreement, if you are not 100% compliant, you are in violation. That quick and dirty Dalvik JVM hack has doomed Android.
Oops. This is a pro-Apple forum. No more mention of (doomed) Android, OK guys?
no, its a patent suit. the mobile version of java doesn't cover closed source so you would have to have a license agreement. but if android isn't closed then are they excluded?
it doesn't matter really, by the time it settles there will be meego or something else to take its place.
I have no more respect for Daniel Erin Dilger commenting on Microsoft as I do of Paul Thurrott commenting about Apple. Having said that, Daniel has a pretty easy task. Take a look at what Paul said about WP7: http://windowsphonesecrets.com/2010/...windows-phone/
WP7 has a lot to do, just to get in the game. Microsoft's promise of Flash in Q1 2011 has been shortened to January by the fanbois, so Microsoft has their work cut out for them. Just remember what the iPhone had to offer day one. No Flash, no App Store, etc. It could happen (WP7 updates). Personally, I have more confidence in Apple's ability to put out a new release than I do Microsoft's.
The developers have a right to be nervous. Microsoft has claimed a million Kinects in the first month, but nothing on WP7 sales; other than to say there are component shortages, manufacturing problems and the like. That implication that developers are not being kept abreast of sales, and are not being paid is an obvious problem. Can an iPhone developer comment on the timeliness and quality of information they received?
This is one of the reasons why Oracle bought Sun. The dispute between Google and Sun was already in full swing, but they were trying to handle it privately. Oracle is a different beast and favors hardline tactics. For Oracle, this is an opportunity to squeeze enormous amounts of cash out of Google.
Sun wasn't big enough or bold enough to take a public run at Google, but Oracle is and they will.
if oracle wins, they lose. in the long run. they already look like schmucks and people in a place to choose (like me) won't choose them anymore.
Do you have any data to report or just rumors? How about iPad sales, do you have them? Apple Desktop sales? How about Air sales, Apple TV sales? All of that is APPLE STUFF that I would think I would see at Apple Insider.
Apple must have something to hide.
You apparently don't know that Apple released those numbers for the iPad. 3.3 million the first quarter, and 4.19 million the second quarter. They release desktop sales as well, though i Don't remember the numbers, something like 3.9 million the last quarter, I think. They also release laptop numbers, though not always breaking it down. ATv sales haven't been at the level Apple considers significant, so they've been calling it a hobby. Now, with the new one selling well, we'll see if they break it out.
As you know very well, Apple has always released iPod sales numbers, and iPhone sales numbers. MS releases numbers of sales for their other products, except notably for the Zune and so far for WP7, though they used to release license numbers for Win Mobile.
Being snarky doesn't make your argument any better, not does it make you look any smarter.
I don't like the snarky tone of your second sentence and the insults in the third, but I basically agree with your take on the OS itself.
I can't stand Microsoft, or any of their products, but I'm a bit mystified as to why it isn't catching on more. It's got brand recognition, and a really original interface that addresses the major shortcomings of the iOS interface (lack of integration and poor notifications).
I thought Windows Phone 7 was such a better proposition than Android, and so much more user friendly, that it would surely be a hit. Of course I also thought WebOS was clearly a better designed OS than Android, but that hasn't caught on either.
I see Android as a sort of "fill-in" OS or a default, or fall-back OS. It's what you use when there isn't anything else around. It's what you put on a junky free phone, etc. I was sure however, that we'd also see some real alternatives (like WebOS and Windows Phone 7), and I think it's bad news for everyone that neither seems to have taken off.
The problem with MS is that it is just not cool or a brand that people 'want' to own.
There is no demand for WP7 because there is no emotion.
Just being 'good' is not good enough nowadays.
People 'Want' iPhone they see them rightly or wrongly as THE device to own for a number of reasons - the success of the iPhone drives more demand, iTunes ecosystem and Apps, the iPad, the Mac and the press that Apple get. Those are all things that MS just don't have.
Do you have any data to report or just rumors? How about iPad sales, do you have them? Apple Desktop sales? How about Air sales, Apple TV sales? All of that is APPLE STUFF that I would think I would see at Apple Insider.
Apple must have something to hide.
Do you not read these web sites?
The figures you requested are published by Apple all the time, they hide nothing.
I'll take a bet on that. Hell, you name the price and I'm in.
RIM is far from dead. They are still entrenched in the corporate business sector. It's possible their tablet will hit a home run. Apple hasn't made any big strides into this sector, Android is viewed as a security risk.
As far as the mobile space goes, RIM are light years ahead of Microsoft.
Business doesn't want fun fun fun devices in the hands of employee's. They want production.
Apple has the consumer market, RIM still has the business market.
WinMo 7 is the little train that couldn't
RIM Is far from dead. But, they missed their own estimate for the past two quarters, and growth has slowed down significantly. Business and government have both decided, as determined by sales to those groups, that iOS security is good enough, which is the one area in which the BB stands out. People are also now worried about whether RIM will be giving in to governments on their strict security. Companies are wondering whether they should continue paying for the BB server system, or give it up.
They're moving to a new OS which may, or may not gain enough developers to matter.
They do have problems. The question is whether they can figure out a way around them.
no, its a patent suit. the mobile version of java doesn't cover closed source so you would have to have a license agreement. but if android isn't closed then are they excluded?
it doesn't matter really, by the time it settles there will be meego or something else to take its place.
Business and government have both decided, as determined by sales to those groups, that iOS security is good enough, which is the one area in which the BB stands out.
Well, not all businesses, but enough of them for sure.
Another changing tide is what users are pulling out of their IT departments. In the past users were happy to get a blackberry because it was widely acknowledged to be the best power tool. Now, users are demanding more user friendly and relevant devices such as iPhones.
Purchasing power has moved away from the traditional IT procurement decision makers and over to the leaders and users who want innovation, ease of use and coolness.
My point? Is Apple Insider is just link baiting, and they are not using any real data to back up their BS. They should stick to Apple stuff. Bashing on Microsoft stuff does what exactly at a Apple site? Fire up the fan girls? Ruffle some panties?
Well, not all businesses, but enough of them for sure.
Another changing tide is what users are pulling out of their IT departments. In the past users were happy to get a blackberry because it was widely acknowledged to be the best power tool. Now, users are demanding more user friendly and relevant devices such as iPhones.
Purchasing power has moved away from the traditional IT procurement decision makers and over to the leaders and users who want innovation, ease of use and coolness.
What's interesting it that in every survey so far, business people give the iPhone much higher ratings than they give to the BB in every area. That doesn't exactly help RIM. Neither does the survey we all read that showed that while 90% of iPhone users will get another iPhone, and that 73% of Android users will get another Android phone, only 44% of BB users said they would get another BB.
So while BB sales are still rising, more are leaving than ever before. That means RIM has to sell ever more phones to make up for the vast percentage of their customer base that is going to other platforms, most to iOS. One major question other than where the new sales are going, is what is happening to the current base numbers? Are more leaving than are coming in? If not yet, when will that begin to happen?
And back to our topic of the article; will WP7 ever gain enough mass to be able to gain new developers and hang on to the ones it has now? And if not, what will MS do? We know they think the Zune and the Marketplace is so important to their future that they continue it even though they're losing money on it. Will they do that here, with this much more important product? We see that now they're bringing back the KIN at a much cheaper price with much cheaper plans.
Comments
Sorry but Android is a doomed OS, not a survivor. Oracle's lawsuit has merit, there is clear legal precedent (Microsoft paid Sun $20 million for a similar Java license violation) and Larry Ellison won't settle out of court.
It's not a patent violation, where one party can counter-sue to force an out-of-court settlement. It's a violation of the *license agreement* because Android's implementation of Java is not 100% compliant. And, according to the Java license agreement, if you are not 100% compliant, you are in violation. That quick and dirty Dalvik JVM hack has doomed Android.
Oops. This is a pro-Apple forum. No more mention of (doomed) Android, OK guys?
no, its a patent suit. the mobile version of java doesn't cover closed source so you would have to have a license agreement. but if android isn't closed then are they excluded?
it doesn't matter really, by the time it settles there will be meego or something else to take its place.
WP7 has a lot to do, just to get in the game. Microsoft's promise of Flash in Q1 2011 has been shortened to January by the fanbois, so Microsoft has their work cut out for them. Just remember what the iPhone had to offer day one. No Flash, no App Store, etc. It could happen (WP7 updates). Personally, I have more confidence in Apple's ability to put out a new release than I do Microsoft's.
The developers have a right to be nervous. Microsoft has claimed a million Kinects in the first month, but nothing on WP7 sales; other than to say there are component shortages, manufacturing problems and the like. That implication that developers are not being kept abreast of sales, and are not being paid is an obvious problem. Can an iPhone developer comment on the timeliness and quality of information they received?
This is one of the reasons why Oracle bought Sun. The dispute between Google and Sun was already in full swing, but they were trying to handle it privately. Oracle is a different beast and favors hardline tactics. For Oracle, this is an opportunity to squeeze enormous amounts of cash out of Google.
Sun wasn't big enough or bold enough to take a public run at Google, but Oracle is and they will.
if oracle wins, they lose. in the long run. they already look like schmucks and people in a place to choose (like me) won't choose them anymore.
Do you have any data to report or just rumors? How about iPad sales, do you have them? Apple Desktop sales? How about Air sales, Apple TV sales? All of that is APPLE STUFF that I would think I would see at Apple Insider.
Apple must have something to hide.
You apparently don't know that Apple released those numbers for the iPad. 3.3 million the first quarter, and 4.19 million the second quarter. They release desktop sales as well, though i Don't remember the numbers, something like 3.9 million the last quarter, I think. They also release laptop numbers, though not always breaking it down. ATv sales haven't been at the level Apple considers significant, so they've been calling it a hobby. Now, with the new one selling well, we'll see if they break it out.
As you know very well, Apple has always released iPod sales numbers, and iPhone sales numbers. MS releases numbers of sales for their other products, except notably for the Zune and so far for WP7, though they used to release license numbers for Win Mobile.
Being snarky doesn't make your argument any better, not does it make you look any smarter.
I don't like the snarky tone of your second sentence and the insults in the third, but I basically agree with your take on the OS itself.
I can't stand Microsoft, or any of their products, but I'm a bit mystified as to why it isn't catching on more. It's got brand recognition, and a really original interface that addresses the major shortcomings of the iOS interface (lack of integration and poor notifications).
I thought Windows Phone 7 was such a better proposition than Android, and so much more user friendly, that it would surely be a hit. Of course I also thought WebOS was clearly a better designed OS than Android, but that hasn't caught on either.
I see Android as a sort of "fill-in" OS or a default, or fall-back OS. It's what you use when there isn't anything else around. It's what you put on a junky free phone, etc. I was sure however, that we'd also see some real alternatives (like WebOS and Windows Phone 7), and I think it's bad news for everyone that neither seems to have taken off.
The problem with MS is that it is just not cool or a brand that people 'want' to own.
There is no demand for WP7 because there is no emotion.
Just being 'good' is not good enough nowadays.
People 'Want' iPhone they see them rightly or wrongly as THE device to own for a number of reasons - the success of the iPhone drives more demand, iTunes ecosystem and Apps, the iPad, the Mac and the press that Apple get. Those are all things that MS just don't have.
Who is doomed now?
That would be a great sig line.
Do you have any data to report or just rumors? How about iPad sales, do you have them? Apple Desktop sales? How about Air sales, Apple TV sales? All of that is APPLE STUFF that I would think I would see at Apple Insider.
Apple must have something to hide.
Do you not read these web sites?
The figures you requested are published by Apple all the time, they hide nothing.
Apple must have something to hide.
Yes, our money. They have it all and don't know what to do with it.
I'll take a bet on that. Hell, you name the price and I'm in.
RIM is far from dead. They are still entrenched in the corporate business sector. It's possible their tablet will hit a home run. Apple hasn't made any big strides into this sector, Android is viewed as a security risk.
As far as the mobile space goes, RIM are light years ahead of Microsoft.
Business doesn't want fun fun fun devices in the hands of employee's. They want production.
Apple has the consumer market, RIM still has the business market.
WinMo 7 is the little train that couldn't
RIM Is far from dead. But, they missed their own estimate for the past two quarters, and growth has slowed down significantly. Business and government have both decided, as determined by sales to those groups, that iOS security is good enough, which is the one area in which the BB stands out. People are also now worried about whether RIM will be giving in to governments on their strict security. Companies are wondering whether they should continue paying for the BB server system, or give it up.
They're moving to a new OS which may, or may not gain enough developers to matter.
They do have problems. The question is whether they can figure out a way around them.
Not to get picky or anything, but this word you are using, I do not think it means what you think it means?
A dispassionate review could be extremely positive or extremely negative (or neither)?
I'm not quite sure that's right. See:
dis·pas·sion·ate (dis pas̸h′ə nət)
adjective
free from passion, emotion, or bias; calm; impartial
Related Forms:
* dispassion dis·pas′·sion noun
* dispassionately dis·pas′·sion·ately adverb
dis·pas·sion·ate (dĭs-păshˈə-nĭt)
adjective
Devoid of or unaffected by passion, emotion, or bias. See Synonyms at fair1.
Related Forms:
* dispassionately dis·pasˈsion·ate·ly adverb
* dis·pasˈsion·ate·ness noun
Just to be picky ...
you can't "ruffle some panties" you can only "ruffle some feathers" (like on a bird).
These are ruffled panties:
which probably isn't what you meant.
Certainly the most entertaining post so far.
no, its a patent suit. the mobile version of java doesn't cover closed source so you would have to have a license agreement. but if android isn't closed then are they excluded?
it doesn't matter really, by the time it settles there will be meego or something else to take its place.
I doubt very much it will be Meego.
http://m.techeye.net/software/nokias-meego-is-doomed
Tie them in a not?
Business and government have both decided, as determined by sales to those groups, that iOS security is good enough, which is the one area in which the BB stands out.
Well, not all businesses, but enough of them for sure.
Another changing tide is what users are pulling out of their IT departments. In the past users were happy to get a blackberry because it was widely acknowledged to be the best power tool. Now, users are demanding more user friendly and relevant devices such as iPhones.
Purchasing power has moved away from the traditional IT procurement decision makers and over to the leaders and users who want innovation, ease of use and coolness.
You really should look things up before saying what you think the meaning is. It's easy enough.
I know you've been promoted to GM but you should really think before posting! Your description of dispassionate just proved him right!
My point? Is Apple Insider is just link baiting, and they are not using any real data to back up their BS. They should stick to Apple stuff. Bashing on Microsoft stuff does what exactly at a Apple site? Fire up the fan girls? Ruffle some panties?
And draw trolls like yourself to the flame.
Developers! Developers! Developers!
Not to get picky or anything, but this word you are using, I do not think it means what you think it means?
A dispassionate review could be extremely positive or extremely negative (or neither)?
I'm glad someone else said that. I'd expect ANY review to be dispassionate, if it was to have any credibility
Well, not all businesses, but enough of them for sure.
Another changing tide is what users are pulling out of their IT departments. In the past users were happy to get a blackberry because it was widely acknowledged to be the best power tool. Now, users are demanding more user friendly and relevant devices such as iPhones.
Purchasing power has moved away from the traditional IT procurement decision makers and over to the leaders and users who want innovation, ease of use and coolness.
What's interesting it that in every survey so far, business people give the iPhone much higher ratings than they give to the BB in every area. That doesn't exactly help RIM. Neither does the survey we all read that showed that while 90% of iPhone users will get another iPhone, and that 73% of Android users will get another Android phone, only 44% of BB users said they would get another BB.
So while BB sales are still rising, more are leaving than ever before. That means RIM has to sell ever more phones to make up for the vast percentage of their customer base that is going to other platforms, most to iOS. One major question other than where the new sales are going, is what is happening to the current base numbers? Are more leaving than are coming in? If not yet, when will that begin to happen?
And back to our topic of the article; will WP7 ever gain enough mass to be able to gain new developers and hang on to the ones it has now? And if not, what will MS do? We know they think the Zune and the Marketplace is so important to their future that they continue it even though they're losing money on it. Will they do that here, with this much more important product? We see that now they're bringing back the KIN at a much cheaper price with much cheaper plans.