We have a couple iPad2's in the house...my wife and daughter both have one. I worked for Apple from early 2010 through late 2011 so bought those two plus another for my son using the Apple discount. No longer working for Apple, I'd still like to buy myself an iPad later this year. It will be a decision to make when choosing between the new, smaller one and the larger Retina-screen one. I think I'd still go for the **new** iPad (3) rather than the little one with the iPhone 3G display.
The problem is that too many consumers, attracted to a lower price, would buy the smaller device instead of the current form factor and then be less happy with using it on a regular basis. This would have a negative long-term impact.
Apple makes a device that fits perfectly with your basic requirement that you would actually have the device with you. Two such devices in fact. The IPod Touch and the iPhone. The difference is that those devices are clearly differentiated from the iPad. There is no danger that someone would buy a Touch on the understanding that it be an alternative to the iPad.
The size of the screen has a lot to do with the sort of experience the iPad delivers. Change it and the iPad comes across as a different device. Attach the iPad name to the smaller device and the larger one suffers from guilt by association. Jobs understood this and I imagine the folks running Apple today do as well.
Of course, you are basing this opinion on a non-existent device with no user reviews what-so-ever.
As a "real" world example, I'm quite happy with my $20,000 Toyota Corolla even though I could have bought a $35,000 Lexus. The smaller Toyota below the Corolla didn't fit my needs. I have never been unhappy with my purchase. My user experience has been terrific. Toyota's brand is intact.
1) Steve never said that a different size tablet wouldn't work. He said they found the 9.7" 4:3 to be around the ideal size. His comment about sandpaper on the fingers is about a one-size-fits-all UI. A UI half the size would need an idealized UI just as the iPhone has an idealized UI compared to the iPad.
Unless the miniPad has a 16:9 or :10 screen and an SD card slot, I wouldn't even consider it.
If it has those two aspects, and if it were to be priced competetively, I'd consider it, but given that it will likely run iOS, it is unlikely I'd get it.
You'd never buy an Apple product regardless of it's features, so don't waste your time pretending.
Nobody has said Apple is going cheap! I'm not sure why this thought exists, I fully expect that Apple will keep the same high quality. IPod Touch is a prime example here, it is still a quality but inexpensive product.
Exactly. Many of the complaints against a 7-8" iPad amount to "but Apple will never make junk". While I agree with that sentiment, it has nothing to do with the question of whether Apple will introduce an iPad Mini. I fully agree that Apple would not introduce a POS 7" tablet. But I have enough confidence in them (based on decades of using their products - and particularly on the last 10 years) that they can introduce a 7-8" tablet that would NOT suck. And I have enough confidence in their supply chain and engineering to be comfortable with expecting that it would be at an acceptable premium price (in fact, Apple can probably make it just about as cheaply as anyone else, but Apple would expect to make a profit while some competitors apparently don't care about that, so Apple would HAVE to charge more, even if their costs are the same).
Never claimed it was a fact that it would be less usable
Really? It must have been a different antkm1 who said:
"Regardless, you'd have to agree that a 7.85" iPad is just not nearly (by a long shot) as usable as the current model."
That sure looks like a statement of fact. Erroneous, but it is clearly not expressed as an opinion.
I think you are describing a more wide-screen Android type device.
Assuming they keep the current aspect ratio and assuming the bezels remain the same size, an iPad mini would measure 7.73 x 6.18 (the new Nexus tablet is 7.8 x 4.7). So it would only be a couple of inches smaller than the current iPad in length and width and (again, assuming the aspect ratio is the same) much wider than most pants pockets. Even if they narrow the bezels substantially on the sides or almost make them disappear like on the iPhone, it would still be 5" wide at minimum, since the panel itself would be 6.23 x 4.68.
I don't think the bezels will be the same. I would expect it to be palm-able for an adult male so you would not have to rest it on your lap or some surface. I hope the bezels are like an iPhone on the sides. My waist size 36" 501s have a back back pocket that can comfortably fit an iPhone sideways which is approximately 4.6".
Why all of the specific screen sizes? Can't they make it any size they want?
It depends on the usage. Books, watching a movie, or surfing the web are all fully doable, it'll just be on a smaller screen. I'm not claiming that a mini-iPad will be just as usable as the main iPad. I'm one of the people who's stating that the larger iPad is far more usable, especially when using certain apps.
But for certain uses, I do see the reasoning behind a smaller iPad, because it'll be lighter, smaller and more portable than the flagship iPad.
It's about priorities, for those people, like me, who need the full experience and the max usage, they'll use the 9.7" iPad. For those people who for whatever reason want a smaller iPad, maybe it's for a child or a woman, they can choose the iPad mini.
Just to play devil's advocate a bit ... I think there is a possibility that the iPad mini could end up being the "pro" device and the regular size one might end up being "the one you get for grandma."
A smaller iPad would not need accessories like keyboards and cases and would be far easier to type on than the current larger one (it will probably have narrower side bezels for that purpose). It's just as easy to do "consumption" on it (movies, books, etc.), but easier to get actual work done without pulling out a lot of extra gear that just makes you wish you'd brought a laptop. If it had pen input like the Galaxy Note, it would be the tool of choice for reporters, doodlers, and idea people.
I'd buy one in a second, and it would immediately make me reconsider owning the larger model at the same time, or even an iPhone since it could serve all the purposes of both. I'm starting to think that the original iPad was just to get the market used to the idea and to make a device that anyone can use. The iPad mini might end up being aimed at those who really want to get some work done.
I don't think the bezels will be the same. I would expect it to be palm-able for an adult male so you would not have to rest it on your lap or some surface. I hope the bezels are like an iPhone on the sides. My waist size 36" 501s have a back back pocket that can comfortably fit an iPhone sideways which is approximately 4.6"
Well, I'm just supposin' based on the data, but even with almost invisible side bezels it would still be 5" wide AFAICS.
Based on that I'm hoping for 7.5 x 5.25 or something similar.
The problem is that too many consumers, attracted to a lower price, would buy the smaller device instead of the current form factor and then be less happy with using it on a regular basis. This would have a negative long-term impact.
People who make purchasing decisions based on price alone almost never complain because they don't want to admit they made a poor decision. In the case of Apple, they don't make junk, so there is very little chance that any consumer will be disappointed. Apple brand is not in jeopardy. Apple is not without flaws (remembering the Shuffle with no buttons) but I can't imagine a 7" iPad not being a total slam dunk.
Well, I'm just supposin' based on the data, but even with almost invisible side bezels it would still be 5" wide AFAICS.
Based on that I'm hoping for 7.5 x 5.25 or something similar.
Well I guess I go ghetto and get some baggy pants.
I think the perfect size for portability would be 7.25 x 4.6 which is like 3+ iPhones side by side. Not sure how the math with pixels works out but that is the perfect size IMO.
Of course, you are basing this opinion on a non-existent device with no user reviews what-so-ever.
As a "real" world example, I'm quite happy with my $20,000 Toyota Corolla even though I could have bought a $35,000 Lexus. The smaller Toyota below the Corolla didn't fit my needs. I have never been unhappy with my purchase. My user experience has been terrific. Toyota's brand is intact.
Your real world example does't work because I don't think you bought the Corolla thinking it would be more or less identical to a $35,000 Lexus only cheaper. On the other hand, if Apple slaps an iPad name on a device for anyone exposed to that device, it will shape their impression of what an iPad is.
It is faulty to assume that when one buys the smaller iPad, if such a device were offered, that one would understand that the tablet experience on such a device would be greatly diminished. On the other hand, if you settle for a Corolla instead of paying more to get a Lexus, you know exactly what to expect and your expectations are tempered accordingly.
Apple doesn't want millions of consumers to have their first experience on a tablet, especially with Apple's name on it, to be a disappointing experience. Since Apple can't control what a consumer buying such a tablet from their friendly neighbourhood Walmart expects going in, it's a dangerous path they'd be embarking on to produce an inferior tablet just to satisfy a handful of customers who, for whatever reason, can't cope with a device the size of the current iPad.
I have owned a Lexus and because of job-related circumstances had to trade it in for an Echo a few years back and the difference in driving one vs/ the other was so minimal that I didn't mind the downgrade nearly as much as I thought I would. On the other hand, drop down significantly in screen size on a tablet and the difference is dramatic. The smaller device is nowhere close to being as enjoyable to use. Just not enough screen.
I think that the iPod Touch and iPhone are adequate as options for those needing a lot more portability, especially if, as rumoured, their screens will be larger in the next versions to ship. They are even more compromised in terms of screen real estate than a 7-inch iPad would be but they are also far better suited to the role of a truly portable device. The trade-off makes sense.
Why not make a RD display 1920x1280 (2X iPod Touch) for the 7.85" commit to RD on all sizes, and retire the 1024x768 form factor next year.
The only thing a 1024x768 defies in terms of form factor is the aspect ratio, nothing else, so what is wrong with the 4:3 aspect ratio? What do you think is better and why?
Your real world example does't work because I don't think you bought the Corolla thinking it would be more or less identical to a $35,000 Lexus only cheaper. On the other hand, if Apple slaps an iPad name on a device for anyone exposed to that device, it will shape their impression of what an iPad is.
It is faulty to assume that when one buys the smaller iPad, if such a device were offered, that one would understand that the tablet experience on such a device would be greatly diminished. On the other hand, if you settle for a Corolla instead of paying more to get a Lexus, you know exactly what to expect and your expectations are tempered accordingly.
Apple doesn't want millions of consumers to have their first experience on a tablet, especially with Apple's name on it, to be a disappointing experience. Since Apple can't control what a consumer buying such a tablet from their friendly neighbourhood Walmart expects going in, it's a dangerous path they'd be embarking on to produce an inferior tablet just to satisfy a handful of customers who, for whatever reason, can't cope with a device the size of the current iPad.
I have owned a Lexus and because of job-related circumstances had to trade it in for an Echo a few years back and the difference in driving one vs/ the other was so minimal that I didn't mind the downgrade nearly as much as I thought I would. On the other hand, drop down significantly in screen size on a tablet and the difference is dramatic. The smaller device is nowhere close to being as enjoyable to use. Just not enough screen.
I think that the iPod Touch and iPhone are adequate as options for those needing a lot more portability, especially if, as rumoured, their screens will be larger in the next versions to ship. They are even more compromised in terms of screen real estate than a 7-inch iPad would be but they are also far better suited to the role of a truly portable device. The trade-off makes sense.
The car example is silly. If the iPad is a Lexus then the smaller iPad will be a little Audi or some such, and the iPhone or iPod T a nice Mini. i am sure there are better car parallels but Apple will not go down market just because they go smaller. There are 15", 13" and 11" laptops, remember. You buy what you need.
And which of Jobs words do you think state that no 7" tablet could ever be a viable product for that market segment?
Oh, sorry. You are right, The article basically says Steve feels that Apple resources will be moving forward on a 7" tablet. I guess I read the article differently. Thanks for the clarification.
On the other hand, if Apple slaps an iPad name on a device for anyone exposed to that device, it will shape their impression of what an iPad is.
It is faulty to assume that when one buys the smaller iPad, if such a device were offered, that one would understand that the tablet experience on such a device would be greatly diminished.
The smaller device is nowhere close to being as enjoyable to use. Just not enough screen.
I already own 5 different screen sizes of Apple products and they make several additional sizes as well. 3.5, 9.7, 11, 13, 15, 21.5, 27 not to mention the recently discontinued 17 and my personal favorite the 30" Cinema. I think your concern of a tarnished brand due to smaller iPad screen is not all that big of a concern for the general public, especially the ones who have multiple Apple products. It is all about the halo effect after all.
Your real world example does't work because I don't think you bought the Corolla thinking it would be more or less identical to a $35,000 Lexus only cheaper. On the other hand, if Apple slaps an iPad name on a device for anyone exposed to that device, it will shape their impression of what an iPad is.
It is faulty to assume that when one buys the smaller iPad, if such a device were offered, that one would understand that the tablet experience on such a device would be greatly diminished. On the other hand, if you settle for a Corolla instead of paying more to get a Lexus, you know exactly what to expect and your expectations are tempered accordingly.
Apple doesn't want millions of consumers to have their first experience on a tablet, especially with Apple's name on it, to be a disappointing experience. Since Apple can't control what a consumer buying such a tablet from their friendly neighbourhood Walmart expects going in, it's a dangerous path they'd be embarking on to produce an inferior tablet just to satisfy a handful of customers who, for whatever reason, can't cope with a device the size of the current iPad.
I have owned a Lexus and because of job-related circumstances had to trade it in for an Echo a few years back and the difference in driving one vs/ the other was so minimal that I didn't mind the downgrade nearly as much as I thought I would. On the other hand, drop down significantly in screen size on a tablet and the difference is dramatic. The smaller device is nowhere close to being as enjoyable to use. Just not enough screen.
I think that the iPod Touch and iPhone are adequate as options for those needing a lot more portability, especially if, as rumoured, their screens will be larger in the next versions to ship. They are even more compromised in terms of screen real estate than a 7-inch iPad would be but they are also far better suited to the role of a truly portable device. The trade-off makes sense.
While I do not have a lot of respect for the intelligence of the average American consumer, I think it's a huge stretch to think that anyone would expect that at $299 device that's 8" diagonal would be the same as a $499 device that's 10" diagonal. Obviously, they're different devices.
That is not, however, to say that one can't make a high quality smaller device. Your argument suggests that Apple should only make a 13" MBA because the 11" would be inferior. They should only make a 64 GB iPhone or iPad because anything less would be inferior. They should only make dual CPU Mac Pros because a single CPU is inferior. For that matter, they should drop the 15" MBP and only make a 19" laptop.
Your conclusion that smaller necessarily means 'inferior' is invalid. For a lot of people and applications, the smaller one would be superior (already discussed in this thread). Furthermore, even for applications where it is inferior, most people are smart enough to figure out that an 8" $299 device is not going to be exactly like a 10" $499 device.
People who make purchasing decisions based on price alone almost never complain because they don't want to admit they made a poor decision. In the case of Apple, they don't make junk, so there is very little chance that any consumer will be disappointed. Apple brand is not in jeopardy. Apple is not without flaws (remembering the Shuffle with no buttons) but I can't imagine a 7" iPad not being a total slam dunk.
I don't quite agree. There are many in the camp you described (fear of a complaint being reflective of their cheapness). There are also those who complain and complain, but still will never spring more for quality. In general, human beings like to complain. It's in our DNA.
Oh, sorry. You are right, The article basically says Steve feels that Apple resources will be moving forward on a 7" tablet. I guess I read the article differently. Thanks for the clarification.
Assuming your comment is meant to be sarcastic, no where in that article does it quote Jobs saying they will never make a 7" tablet or that it's impossible for a 7" tablet to find a market niche. Jobs even goes above and beyond by specifically qualifying his statements to refer to the current 7" tablets being DOA... and he was right.
Your real world example does't work because I don't think you bought the Corolla thinking it would be more or less identical to a $35,000 Lexus only cheaper. On the other hand, if Apple slaps an iPad name on a device for anyone exposed to that device, it will shape their impression of what an iPad is.
It is faulty to assume that when one buys the smaller iPad, if such a device were offered, that one would understand that the tablet experience on such a device would be greatly diminished. On the other hand, if you settle for a Corolla instead of paying more to get a Lexus, you know exactly what to expect and your expectations are tempered accordingly.
Apple doesn't want millions of consumers to have their first experience on a tablet, especially with Apple's name on it, to be a disappointing experience. Since Apple can't control what a consumer buying such a tablet from their friendly neighbourhood Walmart expects going in, it's a dangerous path they'd be embarking on to produce an inferior tablet just to satisfy a handful of customers who, for whatever reason, can't cope with a device the size of the current iPad.
I have owned a Lexus and because of job-related circumstances had to trade it in for an Echo a few years back and the difference in driving one vs/ the other was so minimal that I didn't mind the downgrade nearly as much as I thought I would. On the other hand, drop down significantly in screen size on a tablet and the difference is dramatic. The smaller device is nowhere close to being as enjoyable to use. Just not enough screen.
I think that the iPod Touch and iPhone are adequate as options for those needing a lot more portability, especially if, as rumoured, their screens will be larger in the next versions to ship. They are even more compromised in terms of screen real estate than a 7-inch iPad would be but they are also far better suited to the role of a truly portable device. The trade-off makes sense.
Oh, get off it.
What? The store won't have samples of both. Why would people be smart enough to know that a Corolla aint a Lexus but yet too dumb to realize that 7" isn't 10". This is the smartphone generation after all.
Besides, if people are buying for price then they'll most likely buy the Nexus (their mistake), but those people that choose iOS will be buying based on total experience (ie. ecosystem) or satisfaction with previous Apple products.
Remembering, of course, that you can look at this 2 ways. A lot of these people, if not most, will be moving up from a 4" screen smartphone to a 7" screen tablet. The change in screen size will be phenomenal. No disappointment whatsoever. You said so yourself.
[ Your conclusion that smaller necessarily means 'inferior' is invalid. For a lot of people and applications, the smaller one would be superior (already discussed in this thread). Furthermore, even for applications where it is inferior, most people are smart enough to figure out that an 8" $299 device is not going to be exactly like a 10" $499 device. - jragosta ]
Comments
We have a couple iPad2's in the house...my wife and daughter both have one. I worked for Apple from early 2010 through late 2011 so bought those two plus another for my son using the Apple discount. No longer working for Apple, I'd still like to buy myself an iPad later this year. It will be a decision to make when choosing between the new, smaller one and the larger Retina-screen one. I think I'd still go for the **new** iPad (3) rather than the little one with the iPhone 3G display.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carmissimo
The problem is that too many consumers, attracted to a lower price, would buy the smaller device instead of the current form factor and then be less happy with using it on a regular basis. This would have a negative long-term impact.
Apple makes a device that fits perfectly with your basic requirement that you would actually have the device with you. Two such devices in fact. The IPod Touch and the iPhone. The difference is that those devices are clearly differentiated from the iPad. There is no danger that someone would buy a Touch on the understanding that it be an alternative to the iPad.
The size of the screen has a lot to do with the sort of experience the iPad delivers. Change it and the iPad comes across as a different device. Attach the iPad name to the smaller device and the larger one suffers from guilt by association. Jobs understood this and I imagine the folks running Apple today do as well.
Of course, you are basing this opinion on a non-existent device with no user reviews what-so-ever.
As a "real" world example, I'm quite happy with my $20,000 Toyota Corolla even though I could have bought a $35,000 Lexus. The smaller Toyota below the Corolla didn't fit my needs. I have never been unhappy with my purchase. My user experience has been terrific. Toyota's brand is intact.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX
1) Steve never said that a different size tablet wouldn't work. He said they found the 9.7" 4:3 to be around the ideal size. His comment about sandpaper on the fingers is about a one-size-fits-all UI. A UI half the size would need an idealized UI just as the iPhone has an idealized UI compared to the iPad.
Mr. "Selective Memory", Please read this article again...... http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2010/10/tablets-steve-jobs/
You'd never buy an Apple product regardless of it's features, so don't waste your time pretending.
Exactly. Many of the complaints against a 7-8" iPad amount to "but Apple will never make junk". While I agree with that sentiment, it has nothing to do with the question of whether Apple will introduce an iPad Mini. I fully agree that Apple would not introduce a POS 7" tablet. But I have enough confidence in them (based on decades of using their products - and particularly on the last 10 years) that they can introduce a 7-8" tablet that would NOT suck. And I have enough confidence in their supply chain and engineering to be comfortable with expecting that it would be at an acceptable premium price (in fact, Apple can probably make it just about as cheaply as anyone else, but Apple would expect to make a profit while some competitors apparently don't care about that, so Apple would HAVE to charge more, even if their costs are the same).
Really? It must have been a different antkm1 who said:
"Regardless, you'd have to agree that a 7.85" iPad is just not nearly (by a long shot) as usable as the current model."
That sure looks like a statement of fact. Erroneous, but it is clearly not expressed as an opinion.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee
I think you are describing a more wide-screen Android type device.
Assuming they keep the current aspect ratio and assuming the bezels remain the same size, an iPad mini would measure 7.73 x 6.18 (the new Nexus tablet is 7.8 x 4.7). So it would only be a couple of inches smaller than the current iPad in length and width and (again, assuming the aspect ratio is the same) much wider than most pants pockets. Even if they narrow the bezels substantially on the sides or almost make them disappear like on the iPhone, it would still be 5" wide at minimum, since the panel itself would be 6.23 x 4.68.
I don't think the bezels will be the same. I would expect it to be palm-able for an adult male so you would not have to rest it on your lap or some surface. I hope the bezels are like an iPhone on the sides. My waist size 36" 501s have a back back pocket that can comfortably fit an iPhone sideways which is approximately 4.6".
Why all of the specific screen sizes? Can't they make it any size they want?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][
It depends on the usage. Books, watching a movie, or surfing the web are all fully doable, it'll just be on a smaller screen. I'm not claiming that a mini-iPad will be just as usable as the main iPad. I'm one of the people who's stating that the larger iPad is far more usable, especially when using certain apps.
But for certain uses, I do see the reasoning behind a smaller iPad, because it'll be lighter, smaller and more portable than the flagship iPad.
It's about priorities, for those people, like me, who need the full experience and the max usage, they'll use the 9.7" iPad. For those people who for whatever reason want a smaller iPad, maybe it's for a child or a woman, they can choose the iPad mini.
Just to play devil's advocate a bit ... I think there is a possibility that the iPad mini could end up being the "pro" device and the regular size one might end up being "the one you get for grandma."
A smaller iPad would not need accessories like keyboards and cases and would be far easier to type on than the current larger one (it will probably have narrower side bezels for that purpose). It's just as easy to do "consumption" on it (movies, books, etc.), but easier to get actual work done without pulling out a lot of extra gear that just makes you wish you'd brought a laptop. If it had pen input like the Galaxy Note, it would be the tool of choice for reporters, doodlers, and idea people.
I'd buy one in a second, and it would immediately make me reconsider owning the larger model at the same time, or even an iPhone since it could serve all the purposes of both. I'm starting to think that the original iPad was just to get the market used to the idea and to make a device that anyone can use. The iPad mini might end up being aimed at those who really want to get some work done.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone
I don't think the bezels will be the same. I would expect it to be palm-able for an adult male so you would not have to rest it on your lap or some surface. I hope the bezels are like an iPhone on the sides. My waist size 36" 501s have a back back pocket that can comfortably fit an iPhone sideways which is approximately 4.6"
Well, I'm just supposin' based on the data, but even with almost invisible side bezels it would still be 5" wide AFAICS.
Based on that I'm hoping for 7.5 x 5.25 or something similar.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carmissimo
The problem is that too many consumers, attracted to a lower price, would buy the smaller device instead of the current form factor and then be less happy with using it on a regular basis. This would have a negative long-term impact.
People who make purchasing decisions based on price alone almost never complain because they don't want to admit they made a poor decision. In the case of Apple, they don't make junk, so there is very little chance that any consumer will be disappointed. Apple brand is not in jeopardy. Apple is not without flaws (remembering the Shuffle with no buttons) but I can't imagine a 7" iPad not being a total slam dunk.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee
Well, I'm just supposin' based on the data, but even with almost invisible side bezels it would still be 5" wide AFAICS.
Based on that I'm hoping for 7.5 x 5.25 or something similar.
Well I guess I go ghetto and get some baggy pants.
I think the perfect size for portability would be 7.25 x 4.6 which is like 3+ iPhones side by side. Not sure how the math with pixels works out but that is the perfect size IMO.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone
Well I guess I go ghetto and get some baggy pants.
And your iPad would be at knee level, because that's how those geniuses wear them now.
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit
Of course, you are basing this opinion on a non-existent device with no user reviews what-so-ever.
As a "real" world example, I'm quite happy with my $20,000 Toyota Corolla even though I could have bought a $35,000 Lexus. The smaller Toyota below the Corolla didn't fit my needs. I have never been unhappy with my purchase. My user experience has been terrific. Toyota's brand is intact.
Your real world example does't work because I don't think you bought the Corolla thinking it would be more or less identical to a $35,000 Lexus only cheaper. On the other hand, if Apple slaps an iPad name on a device for anyone exposed to that device, it will shape their impression of what an iPad is.
It is faulty to assume that when one buys the smaller iPad, if such a device were offered, that one would understand that the tablet experience on such a device would be greatly diminished. On the other hand, if you settle for a Corolla instead of paying more to get a Lexus, you know exactly what to expect and your expectations are tempered accordingly.
Apple doesn't want millions of consumers to have their first experience on a tablet, especially with Apple's name on it, to be a disappointing experience. Since Apple can't control what a consumer buying such a tablet from their friendly neighbourhood Walmart expects going in, it's a dangerous path they'd be embarking on to produce an inferior tablet just to satisfy a handful of customers who, for whatever reason, can't cope with a device the size of the current iPad.
I have owned a Lexus and because of job-related circumstances had to trade it in for an Echo a few years back and the difference in driving one vs/ the other was so minimal that I didn't mind the downgrade nearly as much as I thought I would. On the other hand, drop down significantly in screen size on a tablet and the difference is dramatic. The smaller device is nowhere close to being as enjoyable to use. Just not enough screen.
I think that the iPod Touch and iPhone are adequate as options for those needing a lot more portability, especially if, as rumoured, their screens will be larger in the next versions to ship. They are even more compromised in terms of screen real estate than a 7-inch iPad would be but they are also far better suited to the role of a truly portable device. The trade-off makes sense.
The only thing a 1024x768 defies in terms of form factor is the aspect ratio, nothing else, so what is wrong with the 4:3 aspect ratio? What do you think is better and why?
And which of Jobs words do you think state that no 7" tablet could ever be a viable product for that market segment?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carmissimo
Your real world example does't work because I don't think you bought the Corolla thinking it would be more or less identical to a $35,000 Lexus only cheaper. On the other hand, if Apple slaps an iPad name on a device for anyone exposed to that device, it will shape their impression of what an iPad is.
It is faulty to assume that when one buys the smaller iPad, if such a device were offered, that one would understand that the tablet experience on such a device would be greatly diminished. On the other hand, if you settle for a Corolla instead of paying more to get a Lexus, you know exactly what to expect and your expectations are tempered accordingly.
Apple doesn't want millions of consumers to have their first experience on a tablet, especially with Apple's name on it, to be a disappointing experience. Since Apple can't control what a consumer buying such a tablet from their friendly neighbourhood Walmart expects going in, it's a dangerous path they'd be embarking on to produce an inferior tablet just to satisfy a handful of customers who, for whatever reason, can't cope with a device the size of the current iPad.
I have owned a Lexus and because of job-related circumstances had to trade it in for an Echo a few years back and the difference in driving one vs/ the other was so minimal that I didn't mind the downgrade nearly as much as I thought I would. On the other hand, drop down significantly in screen size on a tablet and the difference is dramatic. The smaller device is nowhere close to being as enjoyable to use. Just not enough screen.
I think that the iPod Touch and iPhone are adequate as options for those needing a lot more portability, especially if, as rumoured, their screens will be larger in the next versions to ship. They are even more compromised in terms of screen real estate than a 7-inch iPad would be but they are also far better suited to the role of a truly portable device. The trade-off makes sense.
The car example is silly. If the iPad is a Lexus then the smaller iPad will be a little Audi or some such, and the iPhone or iPod T a nice Mini. i am sure there are better car parallels but Apple will not go down market just because they go smaller. There are 15", 13" and 11" laptops, remember. You buy what you need.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SolipsismX
And which of Jobs words do you think state that no 7" tablet could ever be a viable product for that market segment?
Oh, sorry. You are right, The article basically says Steve feels that Apple resources will be moving forward on a 7" tablet. I guess I read the article differently. Thanks for the clarification.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carmissimo
On the other hand, if Apple slaps an iPad name on a device for anyone exposed to that device, it will shape their impression of what an iPad is.
It is faulty to assume that when one buys the smaller iPad, if such a device were offered, that one would understand that the tablet experience on such a device would be greatly diminished.
The smaller device is nowhere close to being as enjoyable to use. Just not enough screen.I already own 5 different screen sizes of Apple products and they make several additional sizes as well. 3.5, 9.7, 11, 13, 15, 21.5, 27 not to mention the recently discontinued 17 and my personal favorite the 30" Cinema. I think your concern of a tarnished brand due to smaller iPad screen is not all that big of a concern for the general public, especially the ones who have multiple Apple products. It is all about the halo effect after all.
While I do not have a lot of respect for the intelligence of the average American consumer, I think it's a huge stretch to think that anyone would expect that at $299 device that's 8" diagonal would be the same as a $499 device that's 10" diagonal. Obviously, they're different devices.
That is not, however, to say that one can't make a high quality smaller device. Your argument suggests that Apple should only make a 13" MBA because the 11" would be inferior. They should only make a 64 GB iPhone or iPad because anything less would be inferior. They should only make dual CPU Mac Pros because a single CPU is inferior. For that matter, they should drop the 15" MBP and only make a 19" laptop.
Your conclusion that smaller necessarily means 'inferior' is invalid. For a lot of people and applications, the smaller one would be superior (already discussed in this thread). Furthermore, even for applications where it is inferior, most people are smart enough to figure out that an 8" $299 device is not going to be exactly like a 10" $499 device.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone
People who make purchasing decisions based on price alone almost never complain because they don't want to admit they made a poor decision. In the case of Apple, they don't make junk, so there is very little chance that any consumer will be disappointed. Apple brand is not in jeopardy. Apple is not without flaws (remembering the Shuffle with no buttons) but I can't imagine a 7" iPad not being a total slam dunk.
I don't quite agree. There are many in the camp you described (fear of a complaint being reflective of their cheapness). There are also those who complain and complain, but still will never spring more for quality. In general, human beings like to complain. It's in our DNA.
Assuming your comment is meant to be sarcastic, no where in that article does it quote Jobs saying they will never make a 7" tablet or that it's impossible for a 7" tablet to find a market niche. Jobs even goes above and beyond by specifically qualifying his statements to refer to the current 7" tablets being DOA... and he was right.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carmissimo
Your real world example does't work because I don't think you bought the Corolla thinking it would be more or less identical to a $35,000 Lexus only cheaper. On the other hand, if Apple slaps an iPad name on a device for anyone exposed to that device, it will shape their impression of what an iPad is.
It is faulty to assume that when one buys the smaller iPad, if such a device were offered, that one would understand that the tablet experience on such a device would be greatly diminished. On the other hand, if you settle for a Corolla instead of paying more to get a Lexus, you know exactly what to expect and your expectations are tempered accordingly.
Apple doesn't want millions of consumers to have their first experience on a tablet, especially with Apple's name on it, to be a disappointing experience. Since Apple can't control what a consumer buying such a tablet from their friendly neighbourhood Walmart expects going in, it's a dangerous path they'd be embarking on to produce an inferior tablet just to satisfy a handful of customers who, for whatever reason, can't cope with a device the size of the current iPad.
I have owned a Lexus and because of job-related circumstances had to trade it in for an Echo a few years back and the difference in driving one vs/ the other was so minimal that I didn't mind the downgrade nearly as much as I thought I would. On the other hand, drop down significantly in screen size on a tablet and the difference is dramatic. The smaller device is nowhere close to being as enjoyable to use. Just not enough screen.
I think that the iPod Touch and iPhone are adequate as options for those needing a lot more portability, especially if, as rumoured, their screens will be larger in the next versions to ship. They are even more compromised in terms of screen real estate than a 7-inch iPad would be but they are also far better suited to the role of a truly portable device. The trade-off makes sense.
Oh, get off it.
What? The store won't have samples of both. Why would people be smart enough to know that a Corolla aint a Lexus but yet too dumb to realize that 7" isn't 10". This is the smartphone generation after all.
Besides, if people are buying for price then they'll most likely buy the Nexus (their mistake), but those people that choose iOS will be buying based on total experience (ie. ecosystem) or satisfaction with previous Apple products.
Remembering, of course, that you can look at this 2 ways. A lot of these people, if not most, will be moving up from a 4" screen smartphone to a 7" screen tablet. The change in screen size will be phenomenal. No disappointment whatsoever. You said so yourself.
[ Your conclusion that smaller necessarily means 'inferior' is invalid. For a lot of people and applications, the smaller one would be superior (already discussed in this thread). Furthermore, even for applications where it is inferior, most people are smart enough to figure out that an 8" $299 device is not going to be exactly like a 10" $499 device. - jragosta ]
Exactly.