This is an Apple forum. Both Windows and Android are cheap, knockoff OS'es that are liked and used by people who are aesthetically challenged, and in the case of Android, that very often includes economically challenged people too.
Regadles of what you use, you seem to be mentally challenged. Since you see everything so 'challenging'.
The iPad ecosystem is maturing rapidly. For this reason I believe that whereas there probably wasn't such a strong argument in favour of a 7" device at the time that Steve made his comments on the subject, there probably is now. An example of this maturing and one quite suited to either the current size or a smaller iPad is this (I'm not connected to these guys by the way):
They currently sell 2 different sized iMacs (with substantial configurability).
They currently sell 2 different sized MacBook Airs.
They currently sell 3 different sized MacBook Pros (more if you count the retina displays as different devices).
They currently sell 4 different sizes of iPods.
How do you conclude from those facts that they could only sell one size of iPad?
Indeed. I think that as far as the iPad is concerned, it is not so much a question of size than versatility. I mean the existing iPad is probably the best compromise for a multi purpose device, but that does not mean more specialized devices, with a different form factor, can find their way (eg as a Book reader). If I were an Apple competitor, that would be my strategy.
Now, there are various interesting arguments and counter arguments about multipurpose devices (the best counter argument is the Swiss knife, which nobody actually uses, as everybody knows...).
However, it is difficult to imagine somebody walking around carrying an iPod + an iPhone + an iPad + a MBA (or anything "equivalent" from Apple competitors (if you believe such things can exist ...).
The iPad ecosystem is maturing rapidly. For this reason I believe that whereas there probably wasn't such a strong argument in favour of a 7" device at the time that Steve made his comments on the subject, there probably is now. An example of this maturing and one quite suited to either the current size or a smaller iPad is this (I'm not connected to these guys by the way):
This is very interesting, connecting things directly into the Pad this way. I am imagining the universe of sensing and control that this opens up. A maturing ecosystem indeed.
The keyboardless all-screen portable computer, otherwise known as the tablet, has many appetites and capabilities hidden within it that weren't visible when it first appeared.
Making the package smaller and lighter will reveal others. A media revolution is happening right before our eyes.
Just curious, but what type of pack are you referring to size wise? The only ones I am familiar with are the shoulder bags (purses, laptop cases etc), and backpacks which are much larger than the iPad itself. I don't use mass transit such as a train, but they seem fine on a bus. However, if you are cramped for space, then smaller would be better I guess, and if you are used to reading on an iPhone, then a Mini would definitely help in that regard. Regarding cellular, are you referring to phone capabilities, internet or both? If I had a Kindle or Nook e-reader, perhaps I could better understand how people transport them and get the appeal of a smaller device. Either way, if they make one, they make one. Nothing to get bent out of shape over. The only downside I see is all of the Nexus 7, and Kindle Fire fans trying to turn this into some sort of "Apple is scared" b.s. because they relented on the size. No skin off of Apple's nose financially, but as tiresome to read as the whole notification shade comments.
I use a shoulder pack but it is narrow. Although technically large enough to to fit the iPad it does not do it conveniently. I want something that goes in the front pocket so it can be easily stowed in a moment. In order to carry the regular iPad it has to be placed into the main compartment of the back pack and then other items such as drinks, sandwich, snack and papers would go in on top (imagine loading the pack while it is laying down) Once you are in transit, you cannot remove the iPad without upsetting the rest of the contents making virtually impossible to put it back in the pack without removing everything else first. Very awkward for mass transit as you can probably imagine. A smaller iPad would go in the front compartment of the pack by itself, which would make it quickly accessible.
In terms of cellular, I am simply referring to the same service I have now which is data only. I still plan to carry my iPhone. Even though that sounds redundant I enjoy being able to use the smartphone features during the times that I'm not commuting and of course that is my main voice call device.
As I said there are many different reasons people would want an iPad mini. I'm probably not that typical as I already have an iPhone and an iPad. For me, the mini would be used pretty much exclusively for commuting although occasionally for work as I write a lot of web code and it would be another way to check the usability of the code on iOS while at the office. I currently do that check with just my iPhone although I have noticed in some instances the browser behavior is slightly different between the iPhone and iPad so it would be nice to have that extra data point. I can also imagine using it for casual browsing while eating lunch outdoors during the work week. I don't like browsing on an iPhone except for quick information retrieval. I think the iPad mini would be much more relaxing to use for an extended period of time. Overall, I just think it would be a great addition to my iOS family of devices.
When I hear of even a single purpose for the device that isn't better served as a proper-sized tablet or on a pocketable screen, I'll think about doing that.
Since you're getting bashed for this post, I may as well chime in...
One thing in your post that raises the hairs on the back of my neck is the use of "proper-sized" -- like fingernails on a blackboard... bad memories. It is similar to many posts when the iPad first came out, where they said it would be useless without a "proper OS".
As there are different OSes better suited to different tasks, there, likely, are different sizes suited to different uses or needs. If a given device's OS and size suit a given buyer's needs -- who are you, or me, to assert that this is not proper?
Actually, it is an improper use of proper!
In a month, or so, we will see (again) how a "proper OS" works on a tablet with Windows 8. From what I read and seen, it will be an "also ran".
proper |?präp?r|adjective1 [ attrib. ] truly what something is said or regarded to be; genuine: she's never had a proper job | a proper meal.• [ postpositive ] strictly so called; in its true form: some of the dos and don'tsin espionage proper.• informal, chiefly Brit.used as an intensifier, often in derogatorycontexts:she looked like a proper harlot.2 [ attrib. ] of the required type; suitable or appropriate: an artist needs theproper tools | they had not followed the proper procedures.• according to or respecting recognized social standards or conventions;respectable, esp. excessively so: her parents' view of what was proper for awell-bred girl| a very prim and proper Swiss lady.3 [ predic. ] (proper to) belonging or relating exclusively or distinctively to; particular to: the two elephant types proper to Africa and to southern Asia.• (of a psalm, lesson, prayer, etc.) appointed for a particular day,occasion, or season.• archaicbelonging to oneself or itself; own: to judge with my proper eyes.4 [ usu. postpositive ] Heraldry in the natural colors.5 archaic(of a person) good-looking: he is a proper youth!6 Mathematics denoting a subset or subgroup that does not constitute the entire set or group, esp. one that has more than one element.
You are beginning to sound like 'the iPad is just a toy / big iPod' brigade from post iPad launch. Embrace it, even if it's not for you.
I don't think it is so much an issue of embracing it, it is realizing that if it isn't for you that doesn't make it a bad product. For many the 7" device will be an ideal product. At the moment I doubt I would buy one for my personal needs but I'd jump at the chance to get one for use at work. Different needs require different devices as such a 7" iPad would be very useful for those with a heavy work schedule and those constantly on the move. The current iPad is just too big for use 8-12 hours a day on a plant floor.
Ya' know...
If the iPad Mini has a good rear-facing camera -- it may be superior, and handier to use, than either the iPhone, iPad, or many point and shoots.
Bigger display screen can mean better frame selection for composition, but not as big as the iPad, which some will find more awkward to use.
In other words, every different aspect of a device's design determines its usefulness differentially when compared with other devices.
There must be an easier way to say it, though.
The peculiar genius of individuality. In subjects, ...in objects.
I agree with Tallest Skil when he says there are far more leaks about forthcoming Apple products than there were under Steve Jobs. Clearly it's something that Tim Cook is not so worried about, but he was not at Apple when Microsoft stole its ideas and Apple nearly collapsed. The best way of finding who leaks what to whom is to put out some to select individuals in your company, a different and unreal piece of information to each one, and then see which ones get into the press. You sack the people who leak, and keep the ones who don't. Unless you believe it's all hype for the product...
Ridiculous. There are more leaks because Apple has become a huge company that relies on many third parties to manufacturer its products. It is not possible for Apple to completely protect parts made by these third parties. Apple would have a hard time firing the companies as there aren't many companies capable of making such parts.
OOPS! My Mistake, I thought it was about the iPad Mini, what wanted, needed etc, & not about what he and or she said So what my aging eyes wanted/want is a15" Air!
For the few on here complaining about the price, I think $300 would sell fine if a few rumors are true.
[LIST=1] [*] It is thinner than the competition [*] It has front and back facing cameras [*] It is sold to iPhone or iPad users who would rather stay withing the Apple system [/LIST]
All of those items are worthy of a minor price hike (especially the last one) when the competition doesn't have it at a lower price.
The real question is whether this tablet can be held comfortably with one hand, like a note pad (without touching the screen). That has been part of the appeal to the 7" Android tablets. I'm wondering if the iPad Mini is going to have a 4:3 screen ratio like the iPad instead of the 16:9 of the Android tablets and therefore be wider and more difficult to hold comfortably with one hand.
I also think analyst Ming-Chi Kuo was wrong when he said [QUOTE]"the iPad mini will be responsible for a major shift in market and industry trends, the most important being new demand for small form factor tablets..."[/QUOTE]. The demand is already there and I know a few Apple fans have been hoping for a 7" iPad for over a year now. The shift occurred shortly after Amazon released the Kindle Fire and everyone realized how comfortable that was for reading. Apple is just catching up with everyone else on this one.
jragosta 2012/08/31 01:58pm Tallest Skil wrote: I'm still hoping that New Apple is just pulling off the greatest hoax of their company's history and weeding out leaks. Why? How in the world does it affect you if Apple releases a product that you don't want to buy? I really can't stand your constant derision and hatred for things like an iPad Mini, NFC, and even the 'Iphone 5' name. The fact that you don't like something doesn't make it evil.
And why does it bother you to the point you have to post a reply....
[and the next person asks why it bothers me, and so on and so on]
The real question is whether this tablet can be held comfortably with one hand, like a note pad (without touching the screen). That has been part of the appeal to the 7" Android tablets. I'm wondering if the iPad Mini is going to have a 4:3 screen ratio like the iPad instead of the 16:9 of the Android tablets and therefore be wider and more difficult to hold comfortably with one hand.
The first time I used the original iPad, about a week after it went on sale, I was amazed at how thin and light it was. Looking at photos on it was almost magical, web-browsing a pleasure. My single complaint at the time was it being a bit too large for me personally, requiring two hands to use it. It just wasn't comfortable to hold for any length of time, nor convenient to carry around for the day unless stowed in a backpack or "man-purse".
I commented then that I hoped Apple would offer a slightly smaller version, but it took a couple of years for them to listen to me.
I'm still hoping that New Apple is just pulling off the greatest hoax of their company's history and weeding out leaks.
If anything would be a result of a doubling down of security, it's all this "confirmed" information about a product that was never going to exist in the first place. Leak one thing to one place, another thing to another. Then fire everyone when something on the list leaks out.
Apple learned that strategy watching "Game of Thrones" on the upcoming Gen. 4 Apple TV.
That's why I don't see the iPad mini being a good product and why I initially didn't believe they'd ever do it (they wouldn't have ever done it under Steve).
#46: Steve Jobs would never have allowed Apple to do anything that it has done posthumously.
Comments
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][
This is an Apple forum. Both Windows and Android are cheap, knockoff OS'es that are liked and used by people who are aesthetically challenged, and in the case of Android, that very often includes economically challenged people too.
Regadles of what you use, you seem to be mentally challenged. Since you see everything so 'challenging'.
The iPad ecosystem is maturing rapidly. For this reason I believe that whereas there probably wasn't such a strong argument in favour of a 7" device at the time that Steve made his comments on the subject, there probably is now. An example of this maturing and one quite suited to either the current size or a smaller iPad is this (I'm not connected to these guys by the way):
http://www.oscium.com
Great stuff.
All the best.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta
What a silly argument.
They currently sell 2 different sized iMacs (with substantial configurability).
They currently sell 2 different sized MacBook Airs.
They currently sell 3 different sized MacBook Pros (more if you count the retina displays as different devices).
They currently sell 4 different sizes of iPods.
How do you conclude from those facts that they could only sell one size of iPad?
Indeed. I think that as far as the iPad is concerned, it is not so much a question of size than versatility. I mean the existing iPad is probably the best compromise for a multi purpose device, but that does not mean more specialized devices, with a different form factor, can find their way (eg as a Book reader). If I were an Apple competitor, that would be my strategy.
Now, there are various interesting arguments and counter arguments about multipurpose devices (the best counter argument is the Swiss knife, which nobody actually uses, as everybody knows...).
However, it is difficult to imagine somebody walking around carrying an iPod + an iPhone + an iPad + a MBA (or anything "equivalent" from Apple competitors (if you believe such things can exist ...).
This is very interesting, connecting things directly into the Pad this way. I am imagining the universe of sensing and control that this opens up. A maturing ecosystem indeed.
The keyboardless all-screen portable computer, otherwise known as the tablet, has many appetites and capabilities hidden within it that weren't visible when it first appeared.
Making the package smaller and lighter will reveal others. A media revolution is happening right before our eyes.
Quote:
Originally Posted by iSteelers
Just curious, but what type of pack are you referring to size wise? The only ones I am familiar with are the shoulder bags (purses, laptop cases etc), and backpacks which are much larger than the iPad itself. I don't use mass transit such as a train, but they seem fine on a bus. However, if you are cramped for space, then smaller would be better I guess, and if you are used to reading on an iPhone, then a Mini would definitely help in that regard. Regarding cellular, are you referring to phone capabilities, internet or both? If I had a Kindle or Nook e-reader, perhaps I could better understand how people transport them and get the appeal of a smaller device. Either way, if they make one, they make one. Nothing to get bent out of shape over. The only downside I see is all of the Nexus 7, and Kindle Fire fans trying to turn this into some sort of "Apple is scared" b.s. because they relented on the size. No skin off of Apple's nose financially, but as tiresome to read as the whole notification shade comments.
I use a shoulder pack but it is narrow. Although technically large enough to to fit the iPad it does not do it conveniently. I want something that goes in the front pocket so it can be easily stowed in a moment. In order to carry the regular iPad it has to be placed into the main compartment of the back pack and then other items such as drinks, sandwich, snack and papers would go in on top (imagine loading the pack while it is laying down) Once you are in transit, you cannot remove the iPad without upsetting the rest of the contents making virtually impossible to put it back in the pack without removing everything else first. Very awkward for mass transit as you can probably imagine. A smaller iPad would go in the front compartment of the pack by itself, which would make it quickly accessible.
In terms of cellular, I am simply referring to the same service I have now which is data only. I still plan to carry my iPhone. Even though that sounds redundant I enjoy being able to use the smartphone features during the times that I'm not commuting and of course that is my main voice call device.
As I said there are many different reasons people would want an iPad mini. I'm probably not that typical as I already have an iPhone and an iPad. For me, the mini would be used pretty much exclusively for commuting although occasionally for work as I write a lot of web code and it would be another way to check the usability of the code on iOS while at the office. I currently do that check with just my iPhone although I have noticed in some instances the browser behavior is slightly different between the iPhone and iPad so it would be nice to have that extra data point. I can also imagine using it for casual browsing while eating lunch outdoors during the work week. I don't like browsing on an iPhone except for quick information retrieval. I think the iPad mini would be much more relaxing to use for an extended period of time. Overall, I just think it would be a great addition to my iOS family of devices.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
Originally Posted by paxman
Embrace it, even if it's not for you.
When I hear of even a single purpose for the device that isn't better served as a proper-sized tablet or on a pocketable screen, I'll think about doing that.
Since you're getting bashed for this post, I may as well chime in...
One thing in your post that raises the hairs on the back of my neck is the use of "proper-sized" -- like fingernails on a blackboard... bad memories. It is similar to many posts when the iPad first came out, where they said it would be useless without a "proper OS".
As there are different OSes better suited to different tasks, there, likely, are different sizes suited to different uses or needs. If a given device's OS and size suit a given buyer's needs -- who are you, or me, to assert that this is not proper?
Actually, it is an improper use of proper!
In a month, or so, we will see (again) how a "proper OS" works on a tablet with Windows 8. From what I read and seen, it will be an "also ran".
proper |?präp?r|adjective1 [ attrib. ] truly what something is said or regarded to be; genuine: she's never had a proper job | a proper meal.• [ postpositive ] strictly so called; in its true form: some of the dos and don'tsin espionage proper.• informal, chiefly Brit.used as an intensifier, often in derogatory contexts:she looked like a proper harlot.2 [ attrib. ] of the required type; suitable or appropriate: an artist needs theproper tools | they had not followed the proper procedures.• according to or respecting recognized social standards or conventions;respectable, esp. excessively so: her parents' view of what was proper for awell-bred girl | a very prim and proper Swiss lady.3 [ predic. ] (proper to) belonging or relating exclusively or distinctively to; particular to: the two elephant types proper to Africa and to southern Asia.• (of a psalm, lesson, prayer, etc.) appointed for a particular day,occasion, or season.• archaic belonging to oneself or itself; own: to judge with my proper eyes.4 [ usu. postpositive ] Heraldry in the natural colors.5 archaic (of a person) good-looking: he is a proper youth!6 Mathematics denoting a subset or subgroup that does not constitute the entire set or group, esp. one that has more than one element.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69
Quote:
Originally Posted by paxman
You are beginning to sound like 'the iPad is just a toy / big iPod' brigade from post iPad launch. Embrace it, even if it's not for you.
I don't think it is so much an issue of embracing it, it is realizing that if it isn't for you that doesn't make it a bad product. For many the 7" device will be an ideal product. At the moment I doubt I would buy one for my personal needs but I'd jump at the chance to get one for use at work. Different needs require different devices as such a 7" iPad would be very useful for those with a heavy work schedule and those constantly on the move. The current iPad is just too big for use 8-12 hours a day on a plant floor.
Ya' know...
If the iPad Mini has a good rear-facing camera -- it may be superior, and handier to use, than either the iPhone, iPad, or many point and shoots.
And this can't be used in the new iPhone...?
In other words, every different aspect of a device's design determines its usefulness differentially when compared with other devices.
There must be an easier way to say it, though.
The peculiar genius of individuality. In subjects, ...in objects.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SwissMac2
I agree with Tallest Skil when he says there are far more leaks about forthcoming Apple products than there were under Steve Jobs. Clearly it's something that Tim Cook is not so worried about, but he was not at Apple when Microsoft stole its ideas and Apple nearly collapsed. The best way of finding who leaks what to whom is to put out some to select individuals in your company, a different and unreal piece of information to each one, and then see which ones get into the press. You sack the people who leak, and keep the ones who don't. Unless you believe it's all hype for the product...
Ridiculous. There are more leaks because Apple has become a huge company that relies on many third parties to manufacturer its products. It is not possible for Apple to completely protect parts made by these third parties. Apple would have a hard time firing the companies as there aren't many companies capable of making such parts.
OOPS! My Mistake, I thought it was about the iPad Mini, what wanted, needed etc, & not about what he and or she said
[LIST=1]
[*] It is thinner than the competition
[*] It has front and back facing cameras
[*] It is sold to iPhone or iPad users who would rather stay withing the Apple system
[/LIST]
All of those items are worthy of a minor price hike (especially the last one) when the competition doesn't have it at a lower price.
The real question is whether this tablet can be held comfortably with one hand, like a note pad (without touching the screen). That has been part of the appeal to the 7" Android tablets. I'm wondering if the iPad Mini is going to have a 4:3 screen ratio like the iPad instead of the 16:9 of the Android tablets and therefore be wider and more difficult to hold comfortably with one hand.
I also think analyst Ming-Chi Kuo was wrong when he said [QUOTE]"the iPad mini will be responsible for a major shift in market and industry trends, the most important being new demand for small form factor tablets..."[/QUOTE]. The demand is already there and I know a few Apple fans have been hoping for a 7" iPad for over a year now. The shift occurred shortly after Amazon released the Kindle Fire and everyone realized how comfortable that was for reading. Apple is just catching up with everyone else on this one.
Tallest Skil wrote:
I'm still hoping that New Apple is just pulling off the greatest hoax of their company's history and weeding out leaks.
Why? How in the world does it affect you if Apple releases a product that you don't want to buy? I really can't stand your constant derision and hatred for things like an iPad Mini, NFC, and even the 'Iphone 5' name. The fact that you don't like something doesn't make it evil.
And why does it bother you to the point you have to post a reply....
[and the next person asks why it bothers me, and so on and so on]
Quote:
Originally Posted by pixelstuff
The real question is whether this tablet can be held comfortably with one hand, like a note pad (without touching the screen). That has been part of the appeal to the 7" Android tablets. I'm wondering if the iPad Mini is going to have a 4:3 screen ratio like the iPad instead of the 16:9 of the Android tablets and therefore be wider and more difficult to hold comfortably with one hand.
The first time I used the original iPad, about a week after it went on sale, I was amazed at how thin and light it was. Looking at photos on it was almost magical, web-browsing a pleasure. My single complaint at the time was it being a bit too large for me personally, requiring two hands to use it. It just wasn't comfortable to hold for any length of time, nor convenient to carry around for the day unless stowed in a backpack or "man-purse".
I commented then that I hoped Apple would offer a slightly smaller version, but it took a couple of years for them to listen to me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
I'm still hoping that New Apple is just pulling off the greatest hoax of their company's history and weeding out leaks.
If anything would be a result of a doubling down of security, it's all this "confirmed" information about a product that was never going to exist in the first place. Leak one thing to one place, another thing to another. Then fire everyone when something on the list leaks out.
Apple learned that strategy watching "Game of Thrones" on the upcoming Gen. 4 Apple TV.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
That's why I don't see the iPad mini being a good product and why I initially didn't believe they'd ever do it (they wouldn't have ever done it under Steve).
#46: Steve Jobs would never have allowed Apple to do anything that it has done posthumously.
Quote:
Originally Posted by morrolan
#46: Steve Jobs would never have allowed Apple to do anything that it has done posthumously.
Unfair...
Quote:
Originally Posted by morrolan
#46: Steve Jobs would never have allowed Apple to do anything that it has done posthumously.
Epic