I like the Mapsgate comment. I have responded in other forums, who complained about how bad it was, and how Steve would have handled that. Well, now we know how Tim handled it. I liked Forstall's presentation skills, and he obviously did a HUGE amount for Apple, but we have all read stories how he had a big head, and was a pain in the ass to work with. The Maps?.........well, the buck stops (software wise) with Scott, and he screwed up big time IMHO.
I met him several years ago at Macworld, and was very impressed with him. However, stories started to build year after year, about him taking credit when credit was not totally due, and it might just have eventually bit him in the butt.
Can they fix the UI design of some OSX and iOS apps now?
Elaborate? Fix in what way?
Originally Posted by charlituna
Who wants to work for a place where the employees under your charge loathe you.
"They hate me! They hate me, and I don't know why. They don't appreciate my genius. Just the other day, I walked into an Apple Store and there were employees just standing around, TALKING to customers! What do they think we're paying them for? Man the registers or get out. And then, oh~, and then I said to Tim, I said, 'We could save a bundle if we only had one screen back there in the Genius bar instead of two, or no screens and one of those boards where you put the letters up individually,' and he just GLARED at me! I mean, yeah, he's CEO, but I'm the retail guy. I know these things!"
"Of course, dear."
Originally Posted by igriv
Scott Forstall is a noted weasel, so good riddance.
…Who was in charge of creating iOS, their most popular platform to date.
And come on, this has nothing to do with Maps. If Apple didn't have faith in Maps or thought it had failed, they would have simply switched back.
On skeuomorphism, it has a place, period. Yellow leather is garish, I agree, but do you people REALLY want Windows 8-style minimalism in your applications? I don't care if the answer is yes; the answer's no. I think Jony will still do skeuomorphism, but beautifully, simplistically, incorporating raw "materials" and a contrast between them.
"What, you mean like the brushed metal UI in Panther/Tiger?"
Scott Forstall??! Holy. Fucking. Shit. My heart literally skipped a beat when I read this. This better not be solely about maps. Besides Steve, Forstall has always struck me as a visionary in the company, and he's responsible for the inception and continued success of iOS. It's insane that he's being booted. I would hope that Cook did not base this on the hyper-sensationalized maps hysteria, which for many works perfectly, is one of the most ambitious and impressive software initiatives Apple has ever done, and which was a move they were forced to make for their longterm benefit and that of their users. I honestly saw Forstall as Apple's next CEO, and someone who always 'got' Apple more so than anyone else at the company (besides Ive), not to mention seeing so many characteristics in him that reminded me of Jobs and his unrelenting drive.
I'd love to know why this move was made, and who's decision it was. Honestly it just seems to completely wrong, seeing the successes the guy has had and the trust that SJ gave him. If there was a 'next Steve Jobs' att he company, the only person I could point to is him. I mean, ****. This is..depressing.
I doubt Forstall's departure had anything to do with Maps. He's been there forever and was close to Jobs. If he's leaving, I'm guessing it was his own decision.
Browett, however, seems like it wasn't a good fix and Tim dropped the axe.
What the **** is your point? SJ was also known to be an asshole. That doesn't take away from the other qualities he had. These are character flaws that you put up with, when the person brings so much else to the table. You don't look for Mother Theresa in these positions. You find people who have vision, drive, skill, and can execute. He's also the only guy I think can do a half decent job in presenting, compared to Steve.
Speculative. There are lots of reasons people at the VP level might step down. We don't know if its related to Maps, and Apple will probably never (officially) comment one way or the other.
From the last profile of Scott Forstall, he is clearly a very ambitious individual who is also willing to play office politics to get his way. Not saying this is a bad thing, but that when you couple that with the rumored desire to be CEO, it is clear that the dynamics between him and Tim Cook cannot be all that great.
I think Eddy Cue getting responsibility over Siri and Maps is a great thing, it will finally bring all of their online services together and allow them to deeply integrate them further.
Craig Federighi taking over iOS is a good thing. He knows how to pack many great features into something still very user-friendly, this will hopefully mean a lot more OS X features being ported to iOS! Scott Forstall really surprised me, though. I was expecting him to become CEO in 9 years time. However, I do remember a report from (last year?) that stated Forstall, like Browett, wasn't much liked in the company.
Sir Jony taking over UI? *Dances like a maniac* I'm getting giddy...while he isn't a software guru, he will certainly be able to say whether a product is great or not, and whether it fits with the hardware design. I understand that he isn't a huge fan of the current look of iOS/OS X.
And finally, John Browett leaving? *Dancing intensifies* Let's hope he just doesn't decide to return to Britain...
EDIT:// Bob Mansfield was a good choice to increase power. I like him.
"They hate me! They hate me, and I don't know why. They don't appreciate my genius. Just the other day, I walked into an Apple Store and there were employees just standing around, TALKING to customers! What do they think we're paying them for? Man the registers or get out. And then, oh~, and then I said to Tim, I said, 'We could save a bundle if we only had one screen back there in the Genius bar instead of two, or no screens and one of those boards where you put the letters up individually,' and he just GLARED at me! I mean, yeah, he's CEO, but I'm the retail guy. I know these things!"
"Of course, dear."
…Who was in charge of creating iOS, their most popular platform to date.
Design. Compare the beauty of safari and mail, iWork, even iPhoto, with reminders and notes. I think that you guys have a name for it.. skeoumorphism or something like that. ugly stuff.
I had typed more, and even an "/s" but it got deleted before I hit "enter." It was tongue in cheek.
Not sure how I feel about Forstall leaving, as I thought he was ok. Browett is obviously good riddance. If the employees don't like him, it affects their ability to serve the customer. Jony as UI lead? Can you imagine? The man is a legend.
Oh, I agree 100% about Jony Ive moving into a visible role in UI design. He gets it. He is the Anointed One. There's also an interesting comment by Dieter Rams from the documentary Objectified, in which Rams says (to the effect) that with computers, the goals and need for design transcends the physical aspects of the machine and into the user interface. This is one area where Apple can set itself apart. (As an aside, while the "LOL @ Apple" crowd ignorantly claim Apple "stole" Rams' design, in reality, Rams praises Apple for following his design philosophy).
Whereas Microsoft is desperately trying to turn Windows 8 into a "colorful waste of screen space"--populated with monochrome iconography and stock photos, Apple will continue evolving the way humans and machines interact in a meaningful way.
I see significant advantages to bringing the iOS and OS X teams closer together under one leader, and to putting the best designer in a position where he can ensure all of Apple's products meet the same high standards for interface and design.
On the retail side, I just hope someone gets rid of those iPad kiosks all over the place and reduces the clutter on the stores' tabletops. I hardly see anyone using them, and they distract from whatever product you're looking to buy - particularly smaller ones like iPods and iPhones. iPad kiosks to tell you about iPads are also rather absurd. This was a failed experiment - time to try something else IMHO. The mobile self-checkout applications, on the other hand, show promise.
Personally I never liked Forstall, he always came across as smarmy to me.
I agree. We can only speculate as to whether he was fired or resigned, and also, if he was fired, if Maps was an issue. It's easy to imagine that if Cook felt that Forstall was not being fully forthcoming about the quality of Maps at release time, that might have been one of the straws that broke the back. And as far as being an asshole, just because SJ could get away with it doesn't mean that SF could!
I'd love to know why this move was made, and who's decision it was. Honestly it just seems to completely wrong, seeing the successes the guy has had and the trust that SJ gave him.
I think Browett's departure is not surprising. The fact that Ive is taking over leadership of HI may be a clue. If it ever came to Ive or Forestall we have the answer. Just speculation but that would be my guess.
What I don;t like is the seeming centralization of power. And much as I love Ive's design I worry that he can stay 'fresh', and playful in an increasingly centralized corporate culture. Apple ought to bring out a bicycle or something, just for the hell of it. I hope they will keep the 'start-up' mentality going.
Comments
Quote:
Originally Posted by davida
This could be good; perhaps Apple will be a bit less greedy, and more focused on customers rather than just making money at every turn.
Name a tech company that is more "focused on customers."
I like the Mapsgate comment. I have responded in other forums, who complained about how bad it was, and how Steve would have handled that. Well, now we know how Tim handled it. I liked Forstall's presentation skills, and he obviously did a HUGE amount for Apple, but we have all read stories how he had a big head, and was a pain in the ass to work with. The Maps?.........well, the buck stops (software wise) with Scott, and he screwed up big time IMHO.
I met him several years ago at Macworld, and was very impressed with him. However, stories started to build year after year, about him taking credit when credit was not totally due, and it might just have eventually bit him in the butt.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton
Name a tech company that is more "focused on customers."
McDonalds... Oh wait..
Originally Posted by pedromartins
Can they fix the UI design of some OSX and iOS apps now?
Elaborate? Fix in what way?
Originally Posted by charlituna
Who wants to work for a place where the employees under your charge loathe you.
"They hate me! They hate me, and I don't know why. They don't appreciate my genius. Just the other day, I walked into an Apple Store and there were employees just standing around, TALKING to customers! What do they think we're paying them for? Man the registers or get out. And then, oh~, and then I said to Tim, I said, 'We could save a bundle if we only had one screen back there in the Genius bar instead of two, or no screens and one of those boards where you put the letters up individually,' and he just GLARED at me! I mean, yeah, he's CEO, but I'm the retail guy. I know these things!"
"Of course, dear."
Originally Posted by igriv
Scott Forstall is a noted weasel, so good riddance.
…Who was in charge of creating iOS, their most popular platform to date.
And come on, this has nothing to do with Maps. If Apple didn't have faith in Maps or thought it had failed, they would have simply switched back.
On skeuomorphism, it has a place, period. Yellow leather is garish, I agree, but do you people REALLY want Windows 8-style minimalism in your applications? I don't care if the answer is yes; the answer's no. I think Jony will still do skeuomorphism, but beautifully, simplistically, incorporating raw "materials" and a contrast between them.
"What, you mean like the brushed metal UI in Panther/Tiger?"
We must never speak of that again.
"At least it wasn't pinstripes…"
Well, there's that.
Scott Forstall??! Holy. Fucking. Shit. My heart literally skipped a beat when I read this. This better not be solely about maps. Besides Steve, Forstall has always struck me as a visionary in the company, and he's responsible for the inception and continued success of iOS. It's insane that he's being booted. I would hope that Cook did not base this on the hyper-sensationalized maps hysteria, which for many works perfectly, is one of the most ambitious and impressive software initiatives Apple has ever done, and which was a move they were forced to make for their longterm benefit and that of their users. I honestly saw Forstall as Apple's next CEO, and someone who always 'got' Apple more so than anyone else at the company (besides Ive), not to mention seeing so many characteristics in him that reminded me of Jobs and his unrelenting drive.
I'd love to know why this move was made, and who's decision it was. Honestly it just seems to completely wrong, seeing the successes the guy has had and the trust that SJ gave him. If there was a 'next Steve Jobs' att he company, the only person I could point to is him. I mean, ****. This is..depressing.
Browett, however, seems like it wasn't a good fix and Tim dropped the axe.
Quote:
Originally Posted by igriv
#next_pages_container { width: 5px; hight: 5px; position: absolute; top: -100px; left: -100px; z-index: 2147483647 !important; }
#next_pages_container { width: 5px; hight: 5px; position: absolute; top: -100px; left: -100px; z-index: 2147483647 !important; }
Google around. Forstall is known for being a corporate infighter and a total a**hole.
#next_pages_container { width: 5px; hight: 5px; position: absolute; top: -100px; left: -100px; z-index: 2147483647 !important; }
What the **** is your point? SJ was also known to be an asshole. That doesn't take away from the other qualities he had. These are character flaws that you put up with, when the person brings so much else to the table. You don't look for Mother Theresa in these positions. You find people who have vision, drive, skill, and can execute. He's also the only guy I think can do a half decent job in presenting, compared to Steve.
From the last profile of Scott Forstall, he is clearly a very ambitious individual who is also willing to play office politics to get his way. Not saying this is a bad thing, but that when you couple that with the rumored desire to be CEO, it is clear that the dynamics between him and Tim Cook cannot be all that great.
I think Eddy Cue getting responsibility over Siri and Maps is a great thing, it will finally bring all of their online services together and allow them to deeply integrate them further.
Craig Federighi taking over iOS is a good thing. He knows how to pack many great features into something still very user-friendly, this will hopefully mean a lot more OS X features being ported to iOS!
Sir Jony taking over UI? *Dances like a maniac* I'm getting giddy...while he isn't a software guru, he will certainly be able to say whether a product is great or not, and whether it fits with the hardware design. I understand that he isn't a huge fan of the current look of iOS/OS X.
And finally, John Browett leaving? *Dancing intensifies* Let's hope he just doesn't decide to return to Britain...
EDIT:// Bob Mansfield was a good choice to increase power. I like him.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil
Elaborate? Fix in what way?
"They hate me! They hate me, and I don't know why. They don't appreciate my genius. Just the other day, I walked into an Apple Store and there were employees just standing around, TALKING to customers! What do they think we're paying them for? Man the registers or get out. And then, oh~, and then I said to Tim, I said, 'We could save a bundle if we only had one screen back there in the Genius bar instead of two, or no screens and one of those boards where you put the letters up individually,' and he just GLARED at me! I mean, yeah, he's CEO, but I'm the retail guy. I know these things!"
"Of course, dear."
…Who was in charge of creating iOS, their most popular platform to date.
Design. Compare the beauty of safari and mail, iWork, even iPhoto, with reminders and notes. I think that you guys have a name for it.. skeoumorphism or something like that. ugly stuff.
Quote:
Originally Posted by allenbf
I had typed more, and even an "/s" but it got deleted before I hit "enter." It was tongue in cheek.
Not sure how I feel about Forstall leaving, as I thought he was ok. Browett is obviously good riddance. If the employees don't like him, it affects their ability to serve the customer. Jony as UI lead? Can you imagine? The man is a legend.
Oh, I agree 100% about Jony Ive moving into a visible role in UI design. He gets it. He is the Anointed One. There's also an interesting comment by Dieter Rams from the documentary Objectified, in which Rams says (to the effect) that with computers, the goals and need for design transcends the physical aspects of the machine and into the user interface. This is one area where Apple can set itself apart. (As an aside, while the "LOL @ Apple" crowd ignorantly claim Apple "stole" Rams' design, in reality, Rams praises Apple for following his design philosophy).
Whereas Microsoft is desperately trying to turn Windows 8 into a "colorful waste of screen space"--populated with monochrome iconography and stock photos, Apple will continue evolving the way humans and machines interact in a meaningful way.
On the retail side, I just hope someone gets rid of those iPad kiosks all over the place and reduces the clutter on the stores' tabletops. I hardly see anyone using them, and they distract from whatever product you're looking to buy - particularly smaller ones like iPods and iPhones. iPad kiosks to tell you about iPads are also rather absurd. This was a failed experiment - time to try something else IMHO. The mobile self-checkout applications, on the other hand, show promise.
Quote:
Originally Posted by saarek
Personally I never liked Forstall, he always came across as smarmy to me.
I agree. We can only speculate as to whether he was fired or resigned, and also, if he was fired, if Maps was an issue. It's easy to imagine that if Cook felt that Forstall was not being fully forthcoming about the quality of Maps at release time, that might have been one of the straws that broke the back. And as far as being an asshole, just because SJ could get away with it doesn't mean that SF could!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slurpy
I'd love to know why this move was made, and who's decision it was. Honestly it just seems to completely wrong, seeing the successes the guy has had and the trust that SJ gave him.
I think Browett's departure is not surprising. The fact that Ive is taking over leadership of HI may be a clue. If it ever came to Ive or Forestall we have the answer. Just speculation but that would be my guess.
What I don;t like is the seeming centralization of power. And much as I love Ive's design I worry that he can stay 'fresh', and playful in an increasingly centralized corporate culture. Apple ought to bring out a bicycle or something, just for the hell of it. I hope they will keep the 'start-up' mentality going.