So if the Mac Pro is not the Made in USA Mac that was promised for later this year, then what will be? This is only "Assembled in USA" and Tim Cook and Obama clearly promised they'd start "making" Macs in America again.
It sounds like they've deliberately stretched the truth in order to score political points. Very disappointing. Assembling is not making!
TBH...they said Made in the USA....so the parts will be shipped here and then the product will be made in the US......i don't think anyone assumed all the parts from end to end would be made here as well.....
Apple will bring most of it's products back to the U.S. because they can't keep their products secret if they are manufactured outside of the country.
Bringing them back here won't change that. Well not unless they can get Obama to make leaks a terrorist action or some other insane measure.
Look at all the store policy etc leaks, many of those come from retail staff in the US.
Personally I think that Apple should not move all production to the US. I think they should set up say 3 regions and produce the products selling in that region within its borders. Set up regional offices, pay taxes etc according to that areas laws (which in some cases would mean sub areas of paying 'sales tax' by the country the sale was in).
I know Apple started in the US but it is a global company now so thinking global isn't a hideous thing.
For large sections of the world, the USA is closer to being the source of most of their problems than something to look up to, and the general smugness, the blindness to their faults, ant the endless self promotion of American companies looks just plain awful from the "outside."
I'm not American, so asking you guys. I understand patriotism and all, but if this is a company from Singapore, then this Made in USA thing isn't bringing in $$$ into the US, except for labor. Am I correct? And if so, would you rather have it being made by an American company? So the profit would flow into the US as well.
Labor means pay for Americans, plus labor based taxes. Which is what the US government wants.
Truth is the US is lacking in home grown advanced engineers to create these companies and products from scratch. Right not the solutions are either import the products or import the producers.
Aren't there specific requirements for being able to put a Made in the USA label on something? Or is this label just going to say Assembled in the USA?
Well, for most of the world, all this chest-beating, xenophobic, "pro-USA" stuff is profoundly distasteful, so there's that to consider also.
They way they are pushing California, I think they believe that somehow the rest of the world has a more positive opinion of California than they do of the USA in general, but I think they are probably not correct about that either.
The only explanation I have for why Apple is doing this sort of thing is that like most Americans, they are blissfully unaware of how the rest of the world really sees the USA and actually believe that line about America being a "world leader" that everyone "looks up to."
For large sections of the world, the USA is closer to being the source of most of their problems than something to look up to, and the general smugness, the blindness to their faults, ant the endless self promotion of American companies looks just plain awful from the "outside."
you know you do not have to buy American products from a country you despise so much......
TBH...they said Made in the USA....so the parts will be shipped here and then the product will be made in the US......i don't think anyone assumed all the parts from end to end would be made here as well.....
I know..right? A computer probably contains at least 100 different mined elements from all around the globe. The US actually produces a lot of silicon. What some people do not realize is that the manufacturing process for chips produces a lot of toxic waste. Personally,I am fine with the chips produced in China. A single cpu could create more than 50 lbs. of waste and use two thousand gallons of water. Another interesting fact is that the manufacture of a computer uses more electricity than the actual computer will use during its average four year lifetime.
Borhter, Whole world knows that CA is in US. Its really feel good to see a nation's name rather than CA.
In the end it comes down to that is what they want to do. And Apple does what they want as much as they legally can. (And if you side with the DOJ even when they legally can't)
Apple is apparently proud of being founded and still based in California. Why? Perhaps it's because of the connection to Silicon Valley, perhaps it is because that's where Steve Jobs grew up, perhaps it's something else that they won't tell because that's one of their secrets
Aren't there specific requirements for being able to put a Made in the USA label on something? Or is this label just going to say Assembled in the USA?
1. It's unlikely that the requirements for electronics include that every component have has to be produced here also
2. Most of those requirement campaigns were for the pretty red, white and blue 'official' label and I doubt Apple is gunning for that. It would clash with the new UI color schemes.
They use the label 'Designed by Apple in California' because that has a lot more cachet than the generic 'USA'. It conjures up more specific imagery, movie stars, fancy cars, surfboards, wealth, casual elegance, and, the real Apple in particular, known for its cutting edge design.
They use the label 'Designed by Apple in California' because that has a lot more cachet than the generic 'USA'. It conjures up more specific imagery, movie stars, fancy cars, surfboards, wealth, casual elegance, and, the real Apple in particular, known for its cutting edge design.
Anytime I prefer Flextronics of Singapore than Foxconn of China. Who cares about Made/Assembly/Design in America or California! Chinese are unfair when they go against you. They try to hurt the business in every possible way. Tim Cooked had to lick Chinese when media was going against Apple in China...huh
It just says "Designed in California. Assembled in USA." Would like to see "Designed & Made in USA"
Assembled does not sound good. It still says... parts are manufactured in China. They were shipped to USA and were assembled.
Nonsense. IIRC, it can have up to 74% US content and still not say 'made in the USA'. That's still a very good amount. Cook specifically stated a few months ago that this was not purely an assembly operation and they wanted to include as much US content as possible. You have no clue how much of the content was made in China.
Besides, would you rather have them do nothing about US production - like the rest of the industry - or at least make some steps toward on-shoring?
So if the Mac Pro is not the Made in USA Mac that was promised for later this year, then what will be? This is only "Assembled in USA" and Tim Cook and Obama clearly promised they'd start "making" Macs in America again.
It sounds like they've deliberately stretched the truth in order to score political points. Very disappointing. Assembling is not making!
So, what product is truly made in USA then?
Clearly not cars or any consumer products, based on your criteria.
Until someone creates chips that don't need the metals from China it will be impossible. Not if you want expect it to be US companies also.
Irrelevant. Your reference to rare earth metals is irrelevant for the Mac Pro. It's somewhat relevant for LCD screens and LEDs, but there is little in the Pro which requires rare earths.
So if the Mac Pro is not the Made in USA Mac that was promised for later this year, then what will be? This is only "Assembled in USA" and Tim Cook and Obama clearly promised they'd start "making" Macs in America again.!
The law is pretty clear - if they have 75% of the manufacturing cost produced in the US, they can call it "Made in the USA": http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Made_in_USA
If it has less than 75%, it MAY be possible to make that claim, but it's weaker and more likely to be challenged. For the Mac Pro, that's a very difficult standard to meet. Look at the current $2500 Mac Pro. The CPUs alone are probably 30% of the total cost - and Apple has no US-manufactured alternative. The point of the entire matter is that Apple is doing what they can to bring manufacturing back to the US, but they can't do everything.
It sounds like they've deliberately stretched the truth in order to score political points. Very disappointing. Assembling is not making!
Before accusing Apple of lying, why don't you produce the exact statement that Cook made? Then, tell us exactly what percentage of US content is going to be in the Mac Pro systems. Then, tell us what other computer manufacturer has greater US content. Furthermore, keep in mind the difference between colloquial usage and the legal requirements (which dictates the label). For the average consumer, if they have 70% US content and assemble it here, it's made in the USA, even though they couldn't label it as such.
Well, for most of the world, all this chest-beating, xenophobic, "pro-USA" stuff is profoundly distasteful, so there's that to consider also.
Nonsense. Virtually every country in the world does it.
The French consider any wine from outside of France to be garbage. Koreans will buy anything from Korea when they can. Germans consider non-German products to have inferior engineering. The list goes on and on.
Irrelevant. Your reference to rare earth metals is irrelevant for the Mac Pro. It's somewhat relevant for LCD screens and LEDs, but there is little in the Pro which requires rare earths.
The law is pretty clear - if they have 75% of the manufacturing cost produced in the US, they can call it "Made in the USA": http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Made_in_USA
If it has less than 75%, it MAY be possible to make that claim, but it's weaker and more likely to be challenged. For the Mac Pro, that's a very difficult standard to meet. Look at the current $2500 Mac Pro. The CPUs alone are probably 30% of the total cost - and Apple has no US-manufactured alternative. The point of the entire matter is that Apple is doing what they can to bring manufacturing back to the US, but they can't do everything.
Before accusing Apple of lying, why don't you produce the exact statement that Cook made? Then, tell us exactly what percentage of US content is going to be in the Mac Pro systems. Then, tell us what other computer manufacturer has greater US content. Furthermore, keep in mind the difference between colloquial usage and the legal requirements (which dictates the label). For the average consumer, if they have 70% US content and assemble it here, it's made in the USA, even though they couldn't label it as such.
Nonsense. Virtually every country in the world does it.
The French consider any wine from outside of France to be garbage. Koreans will buy anything from Korea when they can. Germans consider non-German products to have inferior engineering. The list goes on and on.
I'm not American, so asking you guys. I understand patriotism and all, but if this is a company from Singapore, then this Made in USA thing isn't bringing in $$$ into the US, except for labor. Am I correct? And if so, would you rather have it being made by an American company? So the profit would flow into the US as well.
Absolutely. I was just going to write, "If Flextronics can operate U.S. factories at a profit, why can't an American owner operate U.S. factories at a profit?" Is it competence? Is it that Flextronics is willing to operate at a lower profit than a U.S. investor would? Is it that U.S. investors aren't interested in factories?
I think this is a problem. It's still a benefit because we get some jobs, the associated taxes and the spending associated with a local business, but I still would have liked to have seen this new assembly plant be American owned. I think Apple could have helped facilitate that by being willing to make an investment in it.
On the other hand, let's say it was American owned. If it were privately held, the profits would flow back only to its owners. If it were publicly held, the profits would presumably flow back only to its (mostly rich) investors. So in the end, it might not make that much difference.
Frankly, I think the only reason Apple is doing this is for the P.R. benefit. As a very high-end machine that has already been roundly (sic) criticized, I doubt they'll actually sell very many.
When it goes into production in America later this year, Apple's new cylindrical Mac Pro desktop will reportedly be built in U.S. facilities run by Singapore-based manufacturer Flextronics.
The official Flextronics website reveals that the company already has facilities in a number of locations across the U.S., including Texas, California, Kentucky, Tennessee, Georgia, and both North and South Carolina. The report did not indicate which U.S.-based Flextronics facility will handle assembly of the new Mac Pro.
, , , but Tim Cook did. He said they'll be assembled in Texas, which would almost certainly put them in the same plant assembling Motorola's X Phone unless Flextronics has multiple facilities in that state.
By the way, Cook said they'd be assembled in Texas, not built or made in the USA.
Comments
Quote:
Originally Posted by s.metcalf
So if the Mac Pro is not the Made in USA Mac that was promised for later this year, then what will be? This is only "Assembled in USA" and Tim Cook and Obama clearly promised they'd start "making" Macs in America again.
It sounds like they've deliberately stretched the truth in order to score political points. Very disappointing. Assembling is not making!
TBH...they said Made in the USA....so the parts will be shipped here and then the product will be made in the US......i don't think anyone assumed all the parts from end to end would be made here as well.....
Bringing them back here won't change that. Well not unless they can get Obama to make leaks a terrorist action or some other insane measure.
Look at all the store policy etc leaks, many of those come from retail staff in the US.
Personally I think that Apple should not move all production to the US. I think they should set up say 3 regions and produce the products selling in that region within its borders. Set up regional offices, pay taxes etc according to that areas laws (which in some cases would mean sub areas of paying 'sales tax' by the country the sale was in).
I know Apple started in the US but it is a global company now so thinking global isn't a hideous thing.
Labor means pay for Americans, plus labor based taxes. Which is what the US government wants.
Truth is the US is lacking in home grown advanced engineers to create these companies and products from scratch. Right not the solutions are either import the products or import the producers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gazoobee
Well, for most of the world, all this chest-beating, xenophobic, "pro-USA" stuff is profoundly distasteful, so there's that to consider also.
They way they are pushing California, I think they believe that somehow the rest of the world has a more positive opinion of California than they do of the USA in general, but I think they are probably not correct about that either.
The only explanation I have for why Apple is doing this sort of thing is that like most Americans, they are blissfully unaware of how the rest of the world really sees the USA and actually believe that line about America being a "world leader" that everyone "looks up to."
For large sections of the world, the USA is closer to being the source of most of their problems than something to look up to, and the general smugness, the blindness to their faults, ant the endless self promotion of American companies looks just plain awful from the "outside."
you know you do not have to buy American products from a country you despise so much......
Quote:
Originally Posted by geekdad
TBH...they said Made in the USA....so the parts will be shipped here and then the product will be made in the US......i don't think anyone assumed all the parts from end to end would be made here as well.....
I know..right? A computer probably contains at least 100 different mined elements from all around the globe. The US actually produces a lot of silicon. What some people do not realize is that the manufacturing process for chips produces a lot of toxic waste. Personally,I am fine with the chips produced in China. A single cpu could create more than 50 lbs. of waste and use two thousand gallons of water. Another interesting fact is that the manufacture of a computer uses more electricity than the actual computer will use during its average four year lifetime.
In the end it comes down to that is what they want to do. And Apple does what they want as much as they legally can. (And if you side with the DOJ even when they legally can't)
Apple is apparently proud of being founded and still based in California. Why? Perhaps it's because of the connection to Silicon Valley, perhaps it is because that's where Steve Jobs grew up, perhaps it's something else that they won't tell because that's one of their secrets
1. It's unlikely that the requirements for electronics include that every component have has to be produced here also
2. Most of those requirement campaigns were for the pretty red, white and blue 'official' label and I doubt Apple is gunning for that. It would clash with the new UI color schemes.
Quote:
Originally Posted by palomine
They use the label 'Designed by Apple in California' because that has a lot more cachet than the generic 'USA'. It conjures up more specific imagery, movie stars, fancy cars, surfboards, wealth, casual elegance, and, the real Apple in particular, known for its cutting edge design.
yes....more like Mavericks huh?
Quote:
Originally Posted by charlituna
1. It's unlikely that the requirements for electronics include that every component have has to be produced here also
What? Is Wikipedia and Google broken today?
Anytime I prefer Flextronics of Singapore than Foxconn of China. Who cares about Made/Assembly/Design in America or California! Chinese are unfair when they go against you. They try to hurt the business in every possible way. Tim Cooked had to lick Chinese when media was going against Apple in China...huh
Nonsense. IIRC, it can have up to 74% US content and still not say 'made in the USA'. That's still a very good amount. Cook specifically stated a few months ago that this was not purely an assembly operation and they wanted to include as much US content as possible. You have no clue how much of the content was made in China.
Besides, would you rather have them do nothing about US production - like the rest of the industry - or at least make some steps toward on-shoring?
Quote:
Originally Posted by s.metcalf
So if the Mac Pro is not the Made in USA Mac that was promised for later this year, then what will be? This is only "Assembled in USA" and Tim Cook and Obama clearly promised they'd start "making" Macs in America again.
It sounds like they've deliberately stretched the truth in order to score political points. Very disappointing. Assembling is not making!
So, what product is truly made in USA then?
Clearly not cars or any consumer products, based on your criteria.
Here’s an early prototype:
Irrelevant. Your reference to rare earth metals is irrelevant for the Mac Pro. It's somewhat relevant for LCD screens and LEDs, but there is little in the Pro which requires rare earths.
The law is pretty clear - if they have 75% of the manufacturing cost produced in the US, they can call it "Made in the USA":
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Made_in_USA
If it has less than 75%, it MAY be possible to make that claim, but it's weaker and more likely to be challenged. For the Mac Pro, that's a very difficult standard to meet. Look at the current $2500 Mac Pro. The CPUs alone are probably 30% of the total cost - and Apple has no US-manufactured alternative. The point of the entire matter is that Apple is doing what they can to bring manufacturing back to the US, but they can't do everything.
Before accusing Apple of lying, why don't you produce the exact statement that Cook made? Then, tell us exactly what percentage of US content is going to be in the Mac Pro systems. Then, tell us what other computer manufacturer has greater US content. Furthermore, keep in mind the difference between colloquial usage and the legal requirements (which dictates the label). For the average consumer, if they have 70% US content and assemble it here, it's made in the USA, even though they couldn't label it as such.
Nonsense. Virtually every country in the world does it.
The French consider any wine from outside of France to be garbage. Koreans will buy anything from Korea when they can. Germans consider non-German products to have inferior engineering. The list goes on and on.
I must say I agree with everything you say here.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilBoogie
I'm not American, so asking you guys. I understand patriotism and all, but if this is a company from Singapore, then this Made in USA thing isn't bringing in $$$ into the US, except for labor. Am I correct? And if so, would you rather have it being made by an American company? So the profit would flow into the US as well.
Absolutely. I was just going to write, "If Flextronics can operate U.S. factories at a profit, why can't an American owner operate U.S. factories at a profit?" Is it competence? Is it that Flextronics is willing to operate at a lower profit than a U.S. investor would? Is it that U.S. investors aren't interested in factories?
I think this is a problem. It's still a benefit because we get some jobs, the associated taxes and the spending associated with a local business, but I still would have liked to have seen this new assembly plant be American owned. I think Apple could have helped facilitate that by being willing to make an investment in it.
On the other hand, let's say it was American owned. If it were privately held, the profits would flow back only to its owners. If it were publicly held, the profits would presumably flow back only to its (mostly rich) investors. So in the end, it might not make that much difference.
Frankly, I think the only reason Apple is doing this is for the P.R. benefit. As a very high-end machine that has already been roundly (sic) criticized, I doubt they'll actually sell very many.
, , , but Tim Cook did. He said they'll be assembled in Texas, which would almost certainly put them in the same plant assembling Motorola's X Phone unless Flextronics has multiple facilities in that state.
By the way, Cook said they'd be assembled in Texas, not built or made in the USA.