It's all true! It proves that the bigger phone is more desirable. To me. Because there will be a sale to me where there wasn't one before!
Availability of a larger model will also demonstrably and verifiably increase sales. By one. To me.
See?
There are increased sales all the time, so how would you attest a increase in sales because of a size increase? So no it wouldn't be that easy to 'see'.
Sure they care, even if it's to learn what not to do.
Nope, they don't. They're going to do exactly what their plans and goals are regardless. We've all learned this about Apple over the years but for some reason, people refuse to believe or acknowledge it. Analysts talk of market share and what the industry's doing, and Apple pays absolutely no attention to them. They may give them lip service if it's good for the stock price but in regards to product development, they could not give a rat's ass what Samsung is up to.
It's all true! It proves that the bigger phone is more desirable. To me. Because there will be a sale to me where there wasn't one before!
Availability of a larger model will also demonstrably and verifiably increase sales. By one. To me.
See?
There are increased sales all the time, so how would you attest a increase in sales because of a size increase? So no it wouldn't be that easy to 'see'.
Yes, it would. The sale is verifiable because I'm the one buying it, and I can verify that I have skipped three generations of iPhone because of screen size and will finally buy one if, and ONLY if, the screen is big enough to make me happy. I can measure the increase in sales based on my own consumption: One.
Is it possible that you just kinda skimmed my earlier post and weren't really paying attention? Read it again.
I have skipped three generations of iPhone because of screen size
To some extent I can understand you are voting with your wallet by not contributing to a design you wouldn't be happy with but you already did for the 3.5" screen. All the time, you are using a 3.5" screen as your reference point for daily usage and saying it's far too small. That's why they made a 4" one. If you want a 4.7" then of course 3.5" is too small but 4" is almost half way there so doesn't it make sense to at least move a little closer to the goal? If it was a case where a lot of people were doing the same thing then sure, it might make them think twice but they're selling more premium phones than anyone else so you're only making yourself suffer for years. People who complain about Apple's options are a bit like self-immolating protestors, i.e if they don't do what I want, I'll just sit here and suffer and that'll show 'em. If it's the right thing to do, they'll do it anyway.
Let's say that we get to September and they end up making another sub-4.5" phone. You can be assured that will be the case in 2015 too so that means 2016 before the possibility rolls round again. Is the next move Android, stick to 3.5" until it breaks or just go with the next one they offer in September?
If you want a 4.7" then of course 3.5" is too small but 4" is almost half way there so doesn't it make sense to at least move a little closer to the goal?
Maybe, I hadn't thought about it that way.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin
People who complain about Apple's options are a bit like self-immolating protestors, i.e if they don't do what I want, I'll just sit here and suffer and that'll show 'em.
That's part of it, but not my primary motivation. Sure, I'm trying to send Apple a message that I'm not happy with the current screen size, but also at a thousand bucks per after taxes and carrier fees I feel like I really need to be completely happy with whatever I'm buying.
I'm willing to settle for a compromise if it's inexpensive, or I'm willing to pay a lot to get what I want. I'm not willing to pay a lot for a compromise. In my opinion, almost $1000 per phone qualifies as "a lot."
?Apple could also mitigate THAT issue by not charging me $200 for 48GB of low-end NAND, but that's another discussion.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin
Let's say that we get to September and they end up making another sub-4.5" phone. You can be assured that will be the case in 2015 too so that means 2016 before the possibility rolls round again. Is the next move Android, stick to 3.5" until it breaks or just go with the next one they offer in September?
I don't know. For the last couple years the answer has been "do nothing" but who knows? Maybe the 6 will offer some feature compelling enough to overcome my resistance to screen size. We'll see when the time comes this year.
To some extent I can understand you are voting with your wallet by not contributing to a design you wouldn't be happy with but you already did for the 3.5" screen. All the time, you are using a 3.5" screen as your reference point for daily usage and saying it's far too small. That's why they made a 4" one. If you want a 4.7" then of course 3.5" is too small but 4" is almost half way there so doesn't it make sense to at least move a little closer to the goal? If it was a case where a lot of people were doing the same thing then sure, it might make them think twice but they're selling more premium phones than anyone else so you're only making yourself suffer for years. People who complain about Apple's options are a bit like self-immolating protestors, i.e if they don't do what I want, I'll just sit here and suffer and that'll show 'em. If it's the right thing to do, they'll do it anyway.
Let's say that we get to September and they end up making another sub-4.5" phone. You can be assured that will be the case in 2015 too so that means 2016 before the possibility rolls round again. Is the next move Android, stick to 3.5" until it breaks or just go with the next one they offer in September?
Yes—cutting off your nose to spite your face is a phrase we use here in England.
I would love Apple to bring out a larger iPad this year, but if they don't, I'm sure I’ll get whatever they do bring out. You can wait and wait and wait for the perfect spec, and then one day you die.
People who complain about Apple's options are a bit like self-immolating protestors, i.e if they don't do what I want, I'll just sit here and suffer and that'll show 'em. If it's the right thing to do, they'll do it anyway.
I think this is symptomatic of the relationship Apple has with its customers. It doesn't really do market testing/polling, and it's products are so good in most ways that the little itty-bitty problems don't have any impact on sales. How are consumers supposed to send a message Apple that they want something different, another form factor, or more colour options, or better web services (or whatever). With any other company with less differentiation between their competitirs products you can simply vote with your wallet and go for a rival, but people are invested in iOS and the Apple ecosystem, and there are a lot of reasons for liking iOS that extend far beyond the size of the screen available. You can't really vote with your wallet with Apple in any meaningful way (it's self-immolation in your words, and I don't disagree) and Apple are such an opinionated company (not saying it's a bad thing in itself) that the feedback form seems like its going to be as effective as shouting at the wind. And they very rarely comment on anything, so everyone is in the dark. It's a bit annoying that you end up feeling powerless as a consumer, which is probably something to do with why you end up with such strong opinions on these forums.
Tangentially, the idea that there's a single "right thing to do" is a bit simplistic. Pleasing customers could be seen as the right thing to do, and Apple does a whole lot of that, but also puts barriers up around itself which stop it at a point. Not necessarily a bad thing, they maintain focus with a lean product range, which they can more efficiently manufacture and support; but inevitably there will be customers left on the side lines not fully satisfied.
I think this is symptomatic of the relationship Apple has with its customers. It doesn't really do market testing/polling, and it's products are so good in most ways that the little itty-bitty problems don't have any impact on sales. How are consumers supposed to send a message Apple that they want something different, another form factor, or more colour options, or better web services (or whatever).
I guess this whole "Apple doesn't do surveys" and "Apple doesn't care what competitors are doing" comes from a comment Steve Jobs made several years ago? Mr, Jobs said a lot of things that shouldn't have been taken at face value yet were by some media outlets, fan sites, etc. . Apple themselves will tell you they do surveys and have all along. Heck I received an invite for one myself some time back (but can't remember what it was about and don't believe I took part in it). In any event there's no truth in claims that Apple doesn't do surveys and market analysis, even about competitive products.
, , ,and Apple wouldn't hire for positions in studying competitive products, consumer preferences, etc if they weren't interested in researching it. http://www.linkedin.com/jobs2/view/9742826
I guess this whole "Apple doesn't do surveys" and "Apple doesn't care what competitors are doing" comes from a comment Steve Jobs made several years ago? Mr, Jobs said a lot of things that shouldn't have been taken at face value yet were by some media outlets, fan sites, etc. . Apple themselves will tell you they do surveys and have all along.
We know they take an interest in customer satisfaction ratings. That's not always the same as giving a customer what they want in a future product. They didn't ask consumers if they wanted an iPad before they made one and nobody expressed a desire for one, yet it became a best selling product.
We know they take an interest in customer satisfaction ratings. That's not always the same as giving a customer what they want in a future product. They didn't ask consumers if they wanted an iPad before they made one and nobody expressed a desire for one, yet it became a best selling product.
Are you homing in on the customer satisfaction part of the surveys yet ignoring the questions they posed on competitive products? For example
and Apple hires for competitive analysis position who are expected to:
• Design, develop, and implement management reports/analytical tools tracking market
share, usage, consumer behavior and other parameters for use in gauging product
performance, opportunities, and risks and work with other company stakeholders to
ensure the information is understood and used correctly.
• Develop a deep understanding of our partners and competitors in order to monitor
potential risks and opportunities in the global market.
• Develop a deep understanding of market, competitive, and consumer drivers key to
the continued growth our business.
• Develop strategic relationships within the research analyst community and leverage
their knowledge to develop an internal Apple point of view of the industry.
• Respond to executive requests for additional information or special analyses.
• Help inform the market research team on refining market primary
research projects as needed.
• Monitor, summarize, and communicate secondary research relevant to our tablet
market business.
• Thoroughly understand appropriate uses, limitations, and issues inherent in using
acquired third-party information sources and manage data issues with
third-party information providers as needed.
BTW, on what are you basing your claim that Apple didn't do any studies on the potential market for an iPad?
Set that post aside and read it again when you're 50. If you can. By then the type might be too small!
Aside from age really beating the hell out of one's eyesight, the issue isn't so much that the screen is illegible, it's that it's awkward and inconvenient. That was completely acceptable in the early days of the smartphone because we were just amazed that a pocket device could access a web page AT ALL! Now that pocket devices are often functioning as computer substitutes, we want a better experience. Thanks to companies like Samsung and HTC we know that we can trade pocket space for reduced scrolling and zooming. THAT is what many of us are saying we want.
Of course I CAN visit a web site with my iPhone 4, but it sure is a lot less annoying on my daughter's Samsung with the big screen, and to me it doesn't seem any more daunting to handle and carry than the iPhone.
Well, I'm 44, and I've only noticed two (in any way) significant differences to my vision:
1) I am getting just a LITTLE BIT farsighted. I hold a book or my iPhone or whatever at the distance I used to. But now I have to move it ~1" farther away for everything to be perfect.
2) On the golf course I can't follow the ball quite as well when it's super-bright out. If it's overcast or partly cloudy or whatever, I'm fine though.
As to the actual size of the device, it's not really pocketing it that bothers me. It's that a significantly bigger screen seems pointless to me, and I will look like a moron holding it next to my ear to talk. I'm talking more "phablet" size here, really.
Are you homing in on the customer satisfaction part of the surveys yet ignoring the questions they posed on competitive products?
These are surveys to Apple customers after they bought the products. They are interested in not losing those customers. Their current products are also reaching a very mature stage of development and growth is slowing so it's not going to hurt to find out if there's some growth opportunities they're missing. You are as usual backdating a lot of your opinions to cover all the way back to the early days of the products. If they'd asked about Android in surveys before, we'd have heard about it years ago, this latest survey is 1 month old. Android is currently a threat to Apple so their surveys reflect this.
That suggests they are lacking in that area just now otherwise they wouldn't be hiring someone. Market analysis also isn't the same as product analysis. If Android customers are being retained due to network carriers or product availability in their geographical region then those are things Apple would be better off addressing.
BTW, on what are you basing your claim that Apple didn't do any studies on the potential market for an iPad?
That's not really the claim I made, I said they didn't ask customers if they wanted an iPad but regardless, we'd have found out about market studies given that they'd have to ask members of the public. I know you're trying to find ways to undermine everything that Apple says but it's not necessary to obsess over these unimportant details. Apple's competitors conducting surveys get access to buying trends just like Apple. Why is it that Apple is the one that makes the ground-breaking products? If customer surveys were so insightful, all manufacturers would get enough information on how to build great products. Customers aren't going to tell them they want a 64-bit CPU, a sapphire camera lens or a gyroscope. They can suggest some things like a fingerprint sensor and a bigger screen and they can factor some of those opinions into their product designs but it's clearly not the case that they bend to every customer preference the way that their competitors do.
There are some interesting things you can get from surveys though, here's one:
"The majority of these public-spirited people were Android users.
The majority of these Android users purportedly would never consider buying an iPhone, for one very simply reason: They "hate Apple."
Indeed, only 31.2 percent of these Android users would consider buying an iPhone if it "worked better with non-iPhone apps and products." While 55.7 percent ticked the box that said, "Nothing: I hate Apple.""
We didn't need a survey to tell us that though. The question that needs answering is 'why?', why do they sign up to Apple forums to try and pick apart every statement made by a company they don't like, why do they prefer to irritate other people instead of being constructive members of forums with people who share their own interests? That needs more than a competitive analyst, it needs a psychiatric analyst.
The only way I could imagine anybody would want the 5.5/6" 'device' is if it paired with a watch which could be used for things you'd want hands free, like making calls, and would only whip out the giant screen for more webby/messaging type things.... if that were the intention, it would make some sense to me.
That being said, 5.6" becomes a 2 hander? You know it's not 5.6" WIDE, right?
Personally I like small screens and would prefer a tiny iphone, but that's what I'm hoping the watch turns into - an interface for my phone.
These are surveys to Apple customers after they bought the products. They are interested in not losing those customers. Their current products are also reaching a very mature stage of development and growth is slowing so it's not going to hurt to find out if there's some growth opportunities they're missing. You are as usual backdating a lot of your opinions to cover all the way back to the early days of the products. If they'd asked about Android in surveys before, we'd have heard about it years ago.
"We" did hear about it years ago. One of Apple's VP's (Joswiak) submitted a statement to the court in the Samsung/Apple trial explaining Apple's market studies are intended in part to "reveal, country-by-country, what is driving our customers to buy Apple's iPhone products versus other products such as the Android products". That was in relation to one specific doc ID'd by Samsung that Apple wanted sealed titled “Apple Market Research & Analysis, May 2011.” I believe that would qualify as years ago.
If you want to take that as undermining a false interpretation of something someone at Apple once said then I'd think you'd see that as commendable. Maybe some will be prompted to go back and carefully read what Mr. Jobs factually said. Either you'll see it as untrue or realize you may have misinterpreted it.
In any event Apple does study what their competitors are doing and the features that drive the purchases, and have done so for years. That's from their own legally-binding sworn statements and not a soundbite.
EDIT: I'm not sure whether to laugh or simply shake my head when a purported serious survey option includes "Nothing: I hate Apple" :err:
Yes—cutting off your nose to spite your face is a phrase we use here in England.
I would love Apple to bring out a larger iPad this year, but if they don't, I'm sure I’ll get whatever they do bring out. You can wait and wait and wait for the perfect spec, and then one day you die.
I completely understand what you're saying, but that's not what I'm doing. I just don't see any point in paying again to get a small screen again, that's all. If a big pile of money isn't going to get me what I want, I might as well just keep what I have and spend that big pile of dough on something else instead.
However, if an iPhone comes along with some feature I find more compelling than a larger screen and is enough to overcome my price inertia, I'll buy it. I certainly won't refuse to buy it in order to make some kind of misguided and pointless "statement."
These are surveys to Apple customers after they bought the products. They are interested in not losing those customers. Their current products are also reaching a very mature stage of development and growth is slowing so it's not going to hurt to find out if there's some growth opportunities they're missing. You are as usual backdating a lot of your opinions to cover all the way back to the early days of the products. If they'd asked about Android in surveys before, we'd have heard about it years ago, this latest survey is 1 month old. Android is currently a threat to Apple so their surveys reflect this.
That suggests they are lacking in that area just now otherwise they wouldn't be hiring someone. Market analysis also isn't the same as product analysis. If Android customers are being retained due to network carriers or product availability in their geographical region then those are things Apple would be better off addressing.
That's not really the claim I made, I said they didn't ask customers if they wanted an iPad but regardless, we'd have found out about market studies given that they'd have to ask members of the public. I know you're trying to find ways to undermine everything that Apple says but it's not necessary to obsess over these unimportant details. Apple's competitors conducting surveys get access to buying trends just like Apple. Why is it that Apple is the one that makes the ground-breaking products? If customer surveys were so insightful, all manufacturers would get enough information on how to build great products. Customers aren't going to tell them they want a 64-bit CPU, a sapphire camera lens or a gyroscope. They can suggest some things like a fingerprint sensor and a bigger screen and they can factor some of those opinions into their product designs but it's clearly not the case that they bend to every customer preference the way that their competitors do.
There are some interesting things you can get from surveys though, here's one:
"The majority of these public-spirited people were Android users.
The majority of these Android users purportedly would never consider buying an iPhone, for one very simply reason: They "hate Apple."
Indeed, only 31.2 percent of these Android users would consider buying an iPhone if it "worked better with non-iPhone apps and products." While 55.7 percent ticked the box that said, "Nothing: I hate Apple.""
We didn't need a survey to tell us that though. The question that needs answering is 'why?', why do they sign up to Apple forums to try and pick apart every statement made by a company they don't like, why do they prefer to irritate other people instead of being constructive members of forums with people who share their own interests? That needs more than a competitive analyst, it needs a psychiatric analyst.
"We" did hear about it years ago. One of Apple's VP's (Joswiak) submitted a statement to the court in the Samsung/Apple trial explaining Apple's market studies are intended in part to "reveal, country-by-country, what is driving our customers to buy Apple's iPhone products versus other products such as the Android products". That was in relation to one specific doc ID'd by Samsung that Apple wanted sealed titled “Apple Market Research & Analysis, May 2011.” I believe that would qualify as years ago.
If you want to take that as undermining a false interpretation of something someone at Apple once said then I'd think you'd see that as commendable. Maybe some will be prompted to go back and carefully read what Mr. Jobs factually said. Either you'll see it as untrue or realize you may have misinterpreted it.
In any event Apple does study what their competitors are doing and the features that drive the purchases, and have done so for years. That's from their own legally-binding sworn statements and not a soundbite.
You're misinterpreting what the statement means though. Those surveys ask customers how satisfied they are with products Apple has already made. You're trying to show up Steve's statement as a complete lie to try and assert that their products are built by customer demands, which is totally false. Apple built the iPhone and iPad, then they asked their customers if they were happy and what they liked about them. The market research you're talking about is getting groups of people together to ask them what kind of upcoming products they'd like to see. Apple built the iPhone (and iPad as it came first) in a sealed off part of their building where only a few employees knew about it so it's highly unlikely they'd be bringing in focus groups to have a chat about them.
There's some grey area when it comes to features in product revisions as they might not think of everything but they still aren't asking people for feature requests. If they get them anyway, which they will all the time, they filter them and don't rely on them to make products. If they'd sent out a survey before the iPhone and found that 90% of people wanted a stylus-driven phone, they wouldn't have built it like that anyway. Samsung, Microsoft, HP and so on would have because they're all about pleasing the customer. They don't go against the status quo.
You're misinterpreting what the statement means though. Those surveys ask customers how satisfied they are with products Apple has already made. You're trying to show up Steve's statement as a complete lie...
Nope. Surely you read what I wrote.
'If you want to take that as undermining a false interpretation of something someone at Apple once said then I'd think you'd see that as commendable. Maybe some will be prompted to go back and carefully read what Mr. Jobs factually said. Either you'll see it as untrue or realize you may have misinterpreted it.'
IMO you and some others have just misinterpreted what Mr. Jobs said, giving more meaning to it than he actually stated. I'm not saying he lied.
IMO you and some others have just misinterpreted what Mr. Jobs said, giving more meaning to it than he actually stated.
Like I said, there are two distinct kinds of market research - the kind before you make a product (focus groups, consultants etc) and the kind after someone has bought a product (customer satisfaction surveys). When people repeat Steve Jobs' statement, it is almost always referred to in the context of the former and not the latter. They have a feedback section on their website so people are well aware that they get customer input otherwise they wouldn't bother putting that option up.
I don't mind if you plan to avoid taking everything Steve said at face value as long as you do it in equal measure with everything he said e.g 'good artists copy, great artists steal', statements made about raising ebook prices. It's all been misinterpreted.
Comments
There are increased sales all the time, so how would you attest a increase in sales because of a size increase? So no it wouldn't be that easy to 'see'.
Sure they care, even if it's to learn what not to do.
Nope, they don't. They're going to do exactly what their plans and goals are regardless. We've all learned this about Apple over the years but for some reason, people refuse to believe or acknowledge it. Analysts talk of market share and what the industry's doing, and Apple pays absolutely no attention to them. They may give them lip service if it's good for the stock price but in regards to product development, they could not give a rat's ass what Samsung is up to.
It's all true! It proves that the bigger phone is more desirable. To me. Because there will be a sale to me where there wasn't one before!
Availability of a larger model will also demonstrably and verifiably increase sales. By one. To me.
See?
There are increased sales all the time, so how would you attest a increase in sales because of a size increase? So no it wouldn't be that easy to 'see'.
Yes, it would. The sale is verifiable because I'm the one buying it, and I can verify that I have skipped three generations of iPhone because of screen size and will finally buy one if, and ONLY if, the screen is big enough to make me happy. I can measure the increase in sales based on my own consumption: One.
Is it possible that you just kinda skimmed my earlier post and weren't really paying attention? Read it again.
To some extent I can understand you are voting with your wallet by not contributing to a design you wouldn't be happy with but you already did for the 3.5" screen. All the time, you are using a 3.5" screen as your reference point for daily usage and saying it's far too small. That's why they made a 4" one. If you want a 4.7" then of course 3.5" is too small but 4" is almost half way there so doesn't it make sense to at least move a little closer to the goal? If it was a case where a lot of people were doing the same thing then sure, it might make them think twice but they're selling more premium phones than anyone else so you're only making yourself suffer for years. People who complain about Apple's options are a bit like self-immolating protestors, i.e if they don't do what I want, I'll just sit here and suffer and that'll show 'em. If it's the right thing to do, they'll do it anyway.
Let's say that we get to September and they end up making another sub-4.5" phone. You can be assured that will be the case in 2015 too so that means 2016 before the possibility rolls round again. Is the next move Android, stick to 3.5" until it breaks or just go with the next one they offer in September?
Maybe, I hadn't thought about it that way.
That's part of it, but not my primary motivation. Sure, I'm trying to send Apple a message that I'm not happy with the current screen size, but also at a thousand bucks per after taxes and carrier fees I feel like I really need to be completely happy with whatever I'm buying.
I'm willing to settle for a compromise if it's inexpensive, or I'm willing to pay a lot to get what I want. I'm not willing to pay a lot for a compromise. In my opinion, almost $1000 per phone qualifies as "a lot."
?Apple could also mitigate THAT issue by not charging me $200 for 48GB of low-end NAND, but that's another discussion.
I don't know. For the last couple years the answer has been "do nothing" but who knows? Maybe the 6 will offer some feature compelling enough to overcome my resistance to screen size. We'll see when the time comes this year.
Yes—cutting off your nose to spite your face is a phrase we use here in England.
I would love Apple to bring out a larger iPad this year, but if they don't, I'm sure I’ll get whatever they do bring out. You can wait and wait and wait for the perfect spec, and then one day you die.
People who complain about Apple's options are a bit like self-immolating protestors, i.e if they don't do what I want, I'll just sit here and suffer and that'll show 'em. If it's the right thing to do, they'll do it anyway.
I think this is symptomatic of the relationship Apple has with its customers. It doesn't really do market testing/polling, and it's products are so good in most ways that the little itty-bitty problems don't have any impact on sales. How are consumers supposed to send a message Apple that they want something different, another form factor, or more colour options, or better web services (or whatever). With any other company with less differentiation between their competitirs products you can simply vote with your wallet and go for a rival, but people are invested in iOS and the Apple ecosystem, and there are a lot of reasons for liking iOS that extend far beyond the size of the screen available. You can't really vote with your wallet with Apple in any meaningful way (it's self-immolation in your words, and I don't disagree) and Apple are such an opinionated company (not saying it's a bad thing in itself) that the feedback form seems like its going to be as effective as shouting at the wind. And they very rarely comment on anything, so everyone is in the dark. It's a bit annoying that you end up feeling powerless as a consumer, which is probably something to do with why you end up with such strong opinions on these forums.
Tangentially, the idea that there's a single "right thing to do" is a bit simplistic. Pleasing customers could be seen as the right thing to do, and Apple does a whole lot of that, but also puts barriers up around itself which stop it at a point. Not necessarily a bad thing, they maintain focus with a lean product range, which they can more efficiently manufacture and support; but inevitably there will be customers left on the side lines not fully satisfied.
I guess this whole "Apple doesn't do surveys" and "Apple doesn't care what competitors are doing" comes from a comment Steve Jobs made several years ago? Mr, Jobs said a lot of things that shouldn't have been taken at face value yet were by some media outlets, fan sites, etc. . Apple themselves will tell you they do surveys and have all along. Heck I received an invite for one myself some time back (but can't remember what it was about and don't believe I took part in it). In any event there's no truth in claims that Apple doesn't do surveys and market analysis, even about competitive products.
Greg Joswiak, Apple's VP of Marketing wouldn't ask that their market research reports be sealed in the Samsung/Apple trial if they didn't exist. . .
http://www.networkworld.com/community/blog/how-apple-conducts-market-research-and-keeps-ios-source-code-locked-down
. . .Apple wouldn't send out monthly surveys if they weren't interested in what consumers had to say and what they wanted . .
http://techcrunch.com/2014/01/21/apple-sends-out-iphone-survey-seeks-feedback-on-android-touch-id-and-more/
, , ,and Apple wouldn't hire for positions in studying competitive products, consumer preferences, etc if they weren't interested in researching it.
http://www.linkedin.com/jobs2/view/9742826
We know they take an interest in customer satisfaction ratings. That's not always the same as giving a customer what they want in a future product. They didn't ask consumers if they wanted an iPad before they made one and nobody expressed a desire for one, yet it became a best selling product.
Are you homing in on the customer satisfaction part of the surveys yet ignoring the questions they posed on competitive products? For example
and Apple hires for competitive analysis position who are expected to:
• Design, develop, and implement management reports/analytical tools tracking market
share, usage, consumer behavior and other parameters for use in gauging product
performance, opportunities, and risks and work with other company stakeholders to
ensure the information is understood and used correctly.
• Develop a deep understanding of our partners and competitors in order to monitor
potential risks and opportunities in the global market.
• Develop a deep understanding of market, competitive, and consumer drivers key to
the continued growth our business.
• Develop strategic relationships within the research analyst community and leverage
their knowledge to develop an internal Apple point of view of the industry.
• Respond to executive requests for additional information or special analyses.
• Help inform the market research team on refining market primary
research projects as needed.
• Monitor, summarize, and communicate secondary research relevant to our tablet
market business.
• Thoroughly understand appropriate uses, limitations, and issues inherent in using
acquired third-party information sources and manage data issues with
third-party information providers as needed.
BTW, on what are you basing your claim that Apple didn't do any studies on the potential market for an iPad?
Fair enough, I didn't know they did customer surveys.
Set that post aside and read it again when you're 50. If you can. By then the type might be too small!
Aside from age really beating the hell out of one's eyesight, the issue isn't so much that the screen is illegible, it's that it's awkward and inconvenient. That was completely acceptable in the early days of the smartphone because we were just amazed that a pocket device could access a web page AT ALL! Now that pocket devices are often functioning as computer substitutes, we want a better experience. Thanks to companies like Samsung and HTC we know that we can trade pocket space for reduced scrolling and zooming. THAT is what many of us are saying we want.
Of course I CAN visit a web site with my iPhone 4, but it sure is a lot less annoying on my daughter's Samsung with the big screen, and to me it doesn't seem any more daunting to handle and carry than the iPhone.
Well, I'm 44, and I've only noticed two (in any way) significant differences to my vision:
1) I am getting just a LITTLE BIT farsighted. I hold a book or my iPhone or whatever at the distance I used to. But now I have to move it ~1" farther away for everything to be perfect.
2) On the golf course I can't follow the ball quite as well when it's super-bright out. If it's overcast or partly cloudy or whatever, I'm fine though.
As to the actual size of the device, it's not really pocketing it that bothers me. It's that a significantly bigger screen seems pointless to me, and I will look like a moron holding it next to my ear to talk. I'm talking more "phablet" size here, really.
These are surveys to Apple customers after they bought the products. They are interested in not losing those customers. Their current products are also reaching a very mature stage of development and growth is slowing so it's not going to hurt to find out if there's some growth opportunities they're missing. You are as usual backdating a lot of your opinions to cover all the way back to the early days of the products. If they'd asked about Android in surveys before, we'd have heard about it years ago, this latest survey is 1 month old. Android is currently a threat to Apple so their surveys reflect this.
That suggests they are lacking in that area just now otherwise they wouldn't be hiring someone. Market analysis also isn't the same as product analysis. If Android customers are being retained due to network carriers or product availability in their geographical region then those are things Apple would be better off addressing.
That's not really the claim I made, I said they didn't ask customers if they wanted an iPad but regardless, we'd have found out about market studies given that they'd have to ask members of the public. I know you're trying to find ways to undermine everything that Apple says but it's not necessary to obsess over these unimportant details. Apple's competitors conducting surveys get access to buying trends just like Apple. Why is it that Apple is the one that makes the ground-breaking products? If customer surveys were so insightful, all manufacturers would get enough information on how to build great products. Customers aren't going to tell them they want a 64-bit CPU, a sapphire camera lens or a gyroscope. They can suggest some things like a fingerprint sensor and a bigger screen and they can factor some of those opinions into their product designs but it's clearly not the case that they bend to every customer preference the way that their competitors do.
There are some interesting things you can get from surveys though, here's one:
http://news.cnet.com/8301-17852_3-20055181-71.html
Survey of 2,000 people:
"The majority of these public-spirited people were Android users.
The majority of these Android users purportedly would never consider buying an iPhone, for one very simply reason: They "hate Apple."
Indeed, only 31.2 percent of these Android users would consider buying an iPhone if it "worked better with non-iPhone apps and products." While 55.7 percent ticked the box that said, "Nothing: I hate Apple.""
We didn't need a survey to tell us that though. The question that needs answering is 'why?', why do they sign up to Apple forums to try and pick apart every statement made by a company they don't like, why do they prefer to irritate other people instead of being constructive members of forums with people who share their own interests? That needs more than a competitive analyst, it needs a psychiatric analyst.
That being said, 5.6" becomes a 2 hander? You know it's not 5.6" WIDE, right?
Personally I like small screens and would prefer a tiny iphone, but that's what I'm hoping the watch turns into - an interface for my phone.
"We" did hear about it years ago. One of Apple's VP's (Joswiak) submitted a statement to the court in the Samsung/Apple trial explaining Apple's market studies are intended in part to "reveal, country-by-country, what is driving our customers to buy Apple's iPhone products versus other products such as the Android products". That was in relation to one specific doc ID'd by Samsung that Apple wanted sealed titled “Apple Market Research & Analysis, May 2011.” I believe that would qualify as years ago.
If you want to take that as undermining a false interpretation of something someone at Apple once said then I'd think you'd see that as commendable. Maybe some will be prompted to go back and carefully read what Mr. Jobs factually said. Either you'll see it as untrue or realize you may have misinterpreted it.
In any event Apple does study what their competitors are doing and the features that drive the purchases, and have done so for years. That's from their own legally-binding sworn statements and not a soundbite.
EDIT: I'm not sure whether to laugh or simply shake my head when a purported serious survey option includes "Nothing: I hate Apple" :err:
Yes—cutting off your nose to spite your face is a phrase we use here in England.
I would love Apple to bring out a larger iPad this year, but if they don't, I'm sure I’ll get whatever they do bring out. You can wait and wait and wait for the perfect spec, and then one day you die.
I completely understand what you're saying, but that's not what I'm doing. I just don't see any point in paying again to get a small screen again, that's all. If a big pile of money isn't going to get me what I want, I might as well just keep what I have and spend that big pile of dough on something else instead.
However, if an iPhone comes along with some feature I find more compelling than a larger screen and is enough to overcome my price inertia, I'll buy it. I certainly won't refuse to buy it in order to make some kind of misguided and pointless "statement."
Because they're poor, or geeks, or both.
You're misinterpreting what the statement means though. Those surveys ask customers how satisfied they are with products Apple has already made. You're trying to show up Steve's statement as a complete lie to try and assert that their products are built by customer demands, which is totally false. Apple built the iPhone and iPad, then they asked their customers if they were happy and what they liked about them. The market research you're talking about is getting groups of people together to ask them what kind of upcoming products they'd like to see. Apple built the iPhone (and iPad as it came first) in a sealed off part of their building where only a few employees knew about it so it's highly unlikely they'd be bringing in focus groups to have a chat about them.
There's some grey area when it comes to features in product revisions as they might not think of everything but they still aren't asking people for feature requests. If they get them anyway, which they will all the time, they filter them and don't rely on them to make products. If they'd sent out a survey before the iPhone and found that 90% of people wanted a stylus-driven phone, they wouldn't have built it like that anyway. Samsung, Microsoft, HP and so on would have because they're all about pleasing the customer. They don't go against the status quo.
Nope. Surely you read what I wrote.
'If you want to take that as undermining a false interpretation of something someone at Apple once said then I'd think you'd see that as commendable. Maybe some will be prompted to go back and carefully read what Mr. Jobs factually said. Either you'll see it as untrue or realize you may have misinterpreted it.'
IMO you and some others have just misinterpreted what Mr. Jobs said, giving more meaning to it than he actually stated. I'm not saying he lied.
Like I said, there are two distinct kinds of market research - the kind before you make a product (focus groups, consultants etc) and the kind after someone has bought a product (customer satisfaction surveys). When people repeat Steve Jobs' statement, it is almost always referred to in the context of the former and not the latter. They have a feedback section on their website so people are well aware that they get customer input otherwise they wouldn't bother putting that option up.
I don't mind if you plan to avoid taking everything Steve said at face value as long as you do it in equal measure with everything he said e.g 'good artists copy, great artists steal', statements made about raising ebook prices. It's all been misinterpreted.