Apple cracks down on Personal Hotspot abuse with iOS 7.1 update

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  • Reply 41 of 136
    dcj001dcj001 Posts: 301member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by PatentHeld View Post



    If this was truly deliberate removal by Apple, it was a really a poor decision to favor service providers over existing customers. This just gives one more reason to choose an Android phone over an iPhone and supports the argument that Apple does not provide enough flexibility to users.

     

    It was a really a decision to favor service providers who make the rules over existing customers who break the rules.

  • Reply 42 of 136
    dcj001dcj001 Posts: 301member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by TeaEarleGreyHot View Post

     

     

    Haha, automated advertising on appleinsider.com has placed a StraightTalk advertisement adjacent to my post above.  The ad reads

    "Straight Talk ® Wireless Touchscreen Phone Sale! No Contract Unlimited Talk, Text, & Data - $45."

     

    But if you go to their site, and click on the T&C at the bottom of the page, and scan through the tiny print, you'll find:

    "7. STRAIGHT TALK UNLIMITED PLANS CANNOT BE USED FOR: any applications that tether your device to a laptop or personal computer other than for the use of Wireless Sync. "

     

    So what the right hand gives, the left hand takes away.


     

    Neither hand gave tethering. Thus, it was not taken away.

  • Reply 43 of 136
    mpantonempantone Posts: 1,610member
    Quote:



    Originally Posted by TeaEarleGreyHot View Post

     

     

    Yes, Darryn Lowe, the 3 major carriers do allow it.  It's part of their data plan, and those are the three which Apple offers on their website (AT&T, Sprint, and Verizon).  It's the discount and PAYG carriers (and a handful of smaller regional carriers) that prohibit tethering.  Though I hesitate to classify StraightTalk a minor carrier, since they're sold by Walmart, and owned by the massive TracFone (a company I believe is based in Mexico).


    StraightTalk is an MVNO. They are not a major carrier because they don't have their own cellular towers. It has nothing to do with the size of their corporate parent, nor which retailers sell their service.

     

    Straight Talk, Net10, and TracFone are all MVNOs from the same corporate parent: America Movil (Mexico). They all have the "no tethering" policy in the boilerplate legalese.

     

    It is likely that AT&T is the one stipulating to their MVNOs that end users of those services cannot tether. It protects AT&T "value-add" to their premium post-paid service plans. Note that AT&T's own prepaid service users are not allowed to tether either.

     

    Both T-Mobile USA and Sprint also lease tower access to MVNOs and most likely, those carriers also prohibit MVNO end users from tethering as well.

     

    Major carriers sell their services at cheaper wholesale rates to MVNOs with the expectation that the discounted users aren't using the same amount of services as premium customers.

     

    In many cases, the MVNOs and prepaid service customers are literally second-class citizens, and do not receive priority access to the cellular towers and best connectivity. During the early stages of AT&T's LTE deployment, Straight Talk customers (and AT&T's own GoPhone PAYG customers) did not have access to LTE service, just 3G HSPA.

     

    Would AT&T like to sell only top-tier premium postpaid service? Absolutely. And United would love to fill their planes with only full fare first-class passengers. That's not realistic, which is why there are service tiers. AT&T can't sell all of their network access to postpaid customers at premium prices, so they sell excess capacity at lower rates (themselves or via MVNOs) with less service.

  • Reply 44 of 136
    thedbathedba Posts: 667member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by TheOtherGeoff View Post





    Sorry it's more like you own two houses and you want to avoid the minimum meter charge on the 2nd house, so you connect the water and sewer lines between the two.



    And if the company wrote their financial model to include selling as many direct connects,mifi devices and USB wireless dongles, why shouldn't they seek contractual protection of that revenue stream.



    And should Apple risk the deep pocket penalty for not doing right by the contracts they sign with carrier? No.



    Nothing to see here but people entering into service agreements they felt no reason to comply with and want apple to take their scofflaw side.

     

    I don't like the water/meter example too much since in that case one would have to do way too much digging to accomplish the mentioned scenario.

     

    It's more like an ISP, at home, charging extra for each device I connect to the internet.

    So in my case

    1) my iMac   (no charge)

    2) my GF's work PC

    3) my iPhone

    4) GF's iPhone

    5) my iPad

    6) GF's iPad

    7) visitors' devices

     

    How much extra for 2 through 7?

  • Reply 45 of 136
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by John.B View Post

     

    Sometimes Apple does stupid shit.

     

    If I'm paying for 2GB (or 4GB or 10GB or whatever) of bandwidth per month, it shouldn't matter how I use it.  This just allows the carriers to gouge users for an additional fee to use the bandwidth they are already paying for.

     

    I've really been loathe to go the whole jailbreaking route, but this could very well change my mind...


     

    Talk to your carrier, not Apple. Apple CANNOT allow tethering for folks who does NOT have agreements from carriers that do not authorize this. Apple's doing this for legal reasons. If your carrier doesn't allow tethering on your plan, then no, you can only use it in the manners they tell you to use. 

     

    Go ahead and jailbreak, your carrier will have the rights to terminate your service and you have nobody to blame but yourself. 

     

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ipen View Post

     

     

    I thought Apple always has the bargaining power.  When did that table turned?


    They had it in the first two years but as data demand quickly outstripped the network's capacity, Apple lost most of their leverage. 

     

    Note the recent moves by many carriers to stop subsidizing the phones, that also meant folks in US will soon have to pay the full price for iPhones and Apple have nothing to provide incentives for when there are much cheaper Android phones. That's why they're working on getting 8GB iPhone 5C out but they're not going to get anywhere until they lower their iPhones lineup by 200$. In order words, sell 16GB iPhone 5C for 200$ and iPhone 5S for 400$. 

     

     

     

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by prof View Post



    That's completely bogus. There's no legal way some operator can forbid tethering via fineprint, if you pay for a regular data service you may use it in any way. If in doubt buy a MiFi device... It's really painful to see Apple participate in such shady behaviour.



     

    It is not a fine print, it is a restriction on the data plan.I don't know where you are but it is perfectly legal in US. You signed a contract that says you can only use the network for your phones only, not for tethering with unauthorized devices unless you pay an extra fee to add this support.

     

    Any violation of this will result into a complete termination of your service. 

     

     

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by vlscout View Post



    Apple does not even always permit tethering if it is clearly allowed by the carrier.



    No idea why they purposefully restrict their own devices but they do.



    Giffgaff UK, a MVNO using the O2 network, allows tethering, yet, as Apple refuses to give them their own carrier file and designation, it is not possible to activate the personal hotspot.



    Android users on giffgaff can tether while Apple users can not.

    Yea, Apple does that for some carriers who won't pay the extra fee for the certification process or in some area, when a certain carrier has an exclusive agreement to provide the personal hotspot. 

     

    The EU is already working on passing a law that says Apple (any manufacturer) cannot restrict 4G or other features for the sole purpose of exclusivity with a network. 

     

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by saarek View Post



    If I pay for 1gb of data I should be able to use that 1gb however I want. I appreciate that it is the carriers that put the block in place but it's a disgusting way to screw your customers over.



    Apple cannot break the laws, it's in their contracts with the carriers to abide by their restrictions they place on customers. There's nothing Apple can do about this. 



    I agree with you, you should be able to use your 1GB however you want through your phone. Go ahead and complaint to your provider, but there's nothing Apple can do. 

     

     

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by umumum View Post

     

     

    no, you're incorrect

     

    a carrier-branded+restricted 4.4  will not tether out of the box, but this can be defeated

     

    a sim-free 4.4 phone will tether freely


     

    And if the carrier detects such tethering, you will lose your service, simple as that. 

     

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by TeaEarleGreyHot View Post

     

     

    Yes, Darryn Lowe, the 3 major carriers do allow it.  It's part of their data plan, and those are the three which Apple offers on their website (AT&T, Sprint, and Verizon).  It's the discount and PAYG carriers (and a handful of smaller regional carriers) that prohibit tethering.  Though I hesitate to classify StraightTalk a minor carrier, since they're sold by Walmart, and owned by the massive TracFone (a company I believe is based in Mexico).


    They only recently started allow tethering in some forms but many grandfathered unlimited plans do NOT offer tethering. 

  • Reply 46 of 136
    bulk001bulk001 Posts: 654member

    I have an iPad with 2 gigs of data via Sprint (I know, bad choice but it was cheap and I don't use it often.) The FCC Verizon decision makes it legal to tether if you have a set data cap but I could not figure out how to setup the tethering on the iPad so I called Sprint. They agreed that under the FCC decision I was allowed to tether but they were not legally obligated to provide the tools to do so and made it clear that they would not help me. They will turn on the monthly hotspot but it would be an additional monthly fee! So I just jailbroke the device and when I can actually get a workable connection MiWi works great. 

  • Reply 47 of 136
    john.bjohn.b Posts: 2,740member

     

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by MikhailT View Post



    Go ahead and jailbreak, your carrier will have the rights to terminate your service and you have nobody to blame but yourself.


     

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by MikhailT View Post



    Any violation of this will result into a complete termination of your service.

     

    Jailbreaking a phone in the US is legal through 2015, at the very least. 

     

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by MikhailT View Post



    Apple cannot break the laws, it's in their contracts with the carriers to abide by their restrictions they place on customers. There's nothing Apple can do about this. 

     

    What laws?  You're going to have to cite the actual law being "broken" if you expect anyone to take you seriously.  Otherwise we're all going to assume you're just making this up as you go.

  • Reply 48 of 136
    tundraboytundraboy Posts: 1,774member
    Damn these companies that make you pay for their product!
  • Reply 49 of 136
    vexorgvexorg Posts: 69member

    I use AT&T in the US. We have a shared data plan - 4 iPhones in our family sharing 10GB per month. Tethering is included in the 10GB. I have to have internet access as part of my work, and I use the tethering as a back up just in case cable modem goes out.



    I think if you don't have a shared data plan, you have to pay a little extra per month to turn it on. Prior to AT&T offering shared plans and bundling tethering, I used to pay extra for the security of having a back up internet just in case. 



    I think the major carriers in the US - such as Verizon, Sprint and T-mobile have similar plans. Don't know about the smaller discount carriers.

  • Reply 50 of 136
    dasanman69dasanman69 Posts: 13,001member
    bulk001 wrote: »
    The FCC Verizon decision makes it legal to tether.....

    The decision didn't make it legal to tether. Verizon was blocking tethering apps; one of the stipulations when they won the auction for their LTE frequency bands was that they could not block software on devices accessing the LTE network. They had no choice but allow the use tethering apps on their phones whereas other carriers blocked them.
  • Reply 51 of 136
    dasanman69dasanman69 Posts: 13,001member
    tundraboy wrote: »
    Damn these companies that make you pay for their product!

    Big brass ones, if you ask me. :lol:
  • Reply 52 of 136
    jfc1138jfc1138 Posts: 3,090member

    TANSTAAFL

  • Reply 53 of 136
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

     
    It would be nice to see a little less regulation and allow more competition among wireless companies


     

    Except that this is what happens when the reigns are relaxed even just a little. We get abject greed trumping ethical policy. There is absolutely zero justification for a supplier imposing rules on how you consume what you buy from them, yet this goes on even WITH the spectre of government intervention. Imagine how egregious the customer boning would become if you removed that threat.

  • Reply 54 of 136
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by TheOtherGeoff View Post

     
    And if the company wrote their financial model to include selling as many direct connects,mifi devices and USB wireless dongles, why shouldn't they seek contractual protection of that revenue stream.


     

    I understood your point and the rest of your post makes sense, but this line confused me. As many as what? It's an incomplete sentence.

  • Reply 55 of 136
    monstrositymonstrosity Posts: 2,234member

    So jailbreak your phone. 

  • Reply 56 of 136
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by John.B View Post

     

     

     

     

    Jailbreaking a phone in the US is legal through 2015, at the very least. 

     

     

    What laws?  You're going to have to cite the actual law being "broken" if you expect anyone to take you seriously.  Otherwise we're all going to assume you're just making this up as you go.


    Read what I was quoting for the context, I was never talking about jailbreaking itself. I'm talking about the tethering itself, the user was talking about jailbreaking his device for the purpose of tethering. That is a violation of his contract with his carrier if he tethers his stuff, thus giving them full legal rights to terminate his service. 



    I never said jailbreaking is illegal.

     

    As for the rest of the laws, read any contract laws in the US states. Apple CANNOT allow their customers to bypass the restrictions in the contract the customer have with the carriers, I'm sure the carriers have the same clause in any contracts they have with Apple when they certify the devices to use in their networks. 

  • Reply 57 of 136
    If the carriers weren't so greedy they would all offer personal hotspot and unlimited data on one of there plans, helpful for price under $100 too.
  • Reply 58 of 136
    dasanman69dasanman69 Posts: 13,001member
    If the carriers weren't so greedy they would all offer personal hotspot and unlimited data on one of there plans, helpful for price under $100 too.

    Is only Apple allowed to make money?
  • Reply 59 of 136
    mdriftmeyermdriftmeyer Posts: 7,502member
    That David Hun comment made me laugh.

    I'm sorry but if you fail an exam because your smartphone can't tether I have to ask what sort of university would implement such an exam structure, and/or is it not your responsibility to make sure you get your exam turned in, one way or another?

    This generation thinks they're technologically adept, when they are completely inept to adapting to technological changes/glitches.
  • Reply 60 of 136
    clemynxclemynx Posts: 1,512member
    So they just returned to what was in place a few years back.
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