Ousted HP CEO Carly Fiorina calls Apple's Tim Cook a hypocrite for stance on Indiana law

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  • Reply 81 of 394
    Since when is Tim Cook a citizen of Indiana? This isn't fed law, or California law or Alabama law. The argument re:China & Saudi Arabia seems like a reasonable one to me.

    I'm not saying he should pull out of business in those countries, but why not write editorials in significant papers in those countries as well? It seems like he chose the venue for "taking a stand" in a place with little or no risk, which seems kind of sad. Aren't the best stands taken when we actually risk something?

    Tim is CEO of the world's most valuable company, a company whose brand is associated with a host of valuable attributes built up over many years. He's an internationally known name which means anything he says is closely observed and can literally move markets up or down. So yes, despite your myopic view on the matter he took a huge risk. As a shareholder and very happy owner of numerous Apple products I'm glad and proud of what he did.
  • Reply 82 of 394
    apple ][apple ][ Posts: 9,233member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by TechManMike View Post

     

    Most of what I see are a bunch of Ad Hominem attacks on Fiorina, like that somehow discredits her argument here. What it actually does is make you look like fools because you think that logical fallacies actually prove your points. Don't get me wrong, I'm not a republican nor did I even know who she was before this article, so I have no political side of the spectrum to try to defend. But in my opinion most of what she's saying is correct.

     

    Sure, Tim didn't boycott Indiana, but her ultimate point is that essentially he's using Indiana to grandstand because it's easier than speaking out against the same things in the other countries that Apple does business in. So what that he's not citizen of those countries, that's not the point. You don't have to be a citizen just to speak out, which is all he's done here in the US. The problem is that Tim knows that Apple could face severe backlash that could hurt their bottomline, and therein lies the crux of what she's saying. It's not courageous to only speak when you know you won't face any adversity. Courage is speaking up in the face of it, even in the face of a possible loss. It's hypocritical to only speak against it when you know that no harm will come to you. I really like Tim and I love what he's doing at Apple, but I also know hypocrisy when I see it and just because he's doing something hypocritical doesn't make him a horrible person. It just makes him a hypocrite on this issue.




    I agree. I also think that Tim Cook has been a good CEO since he took over and I have no issues with that, Apple is doing great, however, I also believe that he is being a bit of a hypocrite on this issue.

  • Reply 83 of 394
    SpamSandwichSpamSandwich Posts: 33,407member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post



    So glad HP doesn't do business in China. Oh wait. Rule of the troll: It's only hypocritical when Apple does it.



    She is neither the CEO of HP, nor did she criticize the Indiana law.

  • Reply 84 of 394
    Tim is CEO of the world's most valuable company, a company whose brand is associated with a host of valuable attributes built up over many years. He's an internationally known name which means anything he says is closely observed and can literally move markets up or down. So yes, despite your myopic view on the matter he took a huge risk. As a shareholder and very happy owner of numerous Apple products I'm glad and proud of what he did.

    If he's as important as you say (and I've already said the same in my other posts) why doesn't he speak against actual violence/abuse/murder of homosexuals around the world instead of (or even in addition to) slamming legislation that some believe could potentially be used to descriminate against homosexuals (though homosexuality is not mentioned anywhere in the law).
  • Reply 85 of 394
    mstonemstone Posts: 11,510member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by TechManMike View Post

     

    Courage is speaking up in the face of it, even in the face of a possible loss. It's hypocritical to only speak against it when you know that no harm will come to you. I really like Tim and I love what he's doing at Apple, but I also know hypocrisy when I see it and just because he's doing something hypocritical doesn't make him a horrible person. It just makes him a hypocrite on this issue.


     

    In the US Tim can speak his mind as a citizen, even if there is some financial consequences to Apple. It would be improper and possibly illegal for him to speak out in the same way about a foreign country as a spokesperson for Apple because it would be in violation of his fiduciary responsibility to the shareholders if there were financial repercussions because of his criticism.

  • Reply 86 of 394
    cnocbuicnocbui Posts: 3,613member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by sog35 View Post

     

     

    Those blokes were Angels (according to the bible)

     

    Lot was offering his daughters as a test to see if they were reasonable.  They were not.  

     

    It was Lot's daughters who made him drunk in order to continue his line.  They tricked him.  He never wanted to do it.  

     

    My guess is you never read the Bible yourself.  good job son.


     

    image

  • Reply 87 of 394
    gijoeinlagijoeinla Posts: 213member
    Carly Fiorina?

    'Nuff said....

    Um exactly.

    Let's see one of them has helped steer one of these companies to be the MOST VALUABLE COMPANY ON THE PLANET and the other GOT THE BOOT!

    Lol! She's an idiot.

    Oh and she also FAILED at her campaign for Governor of California -

    What also is so weird is how ungrateful some people are that after serious health issues they are luckily to just be alive ... What the !
  • Reply 88 of 394
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post

     



    I agree. I also think that Tim Cook has been a good CEO since he took over and I have no issues with that, Apple is doing great, however, I also believe that he is being a bit of a hypocrite on this issue.




    Man, Tim has done a really good job at Apple! I've been really pleased with what he's taken on and accomplished in the wake of losing Steve. And however Tim chooses to live in his personal life is no business of mine. I would be totally okay with him not saying anything regarding the matter, but when he chooses to publicly chide Indiana, then I would at least like to see some consistency so that I can take him seriously. The fact that potential monetary loss could keep him from speaking out against it in other countries, shows that money is more important. I think that speaks volumes in terms of where someone's true loyalties are. But like I said, it just makes him hypocritical in this particular instance and I'm okay with being able to admit that. 

  • Reply 89 of 394
    crowleycrowley Posts: 9,320member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by mstone View Post

     

     

    In the US Tim can speak his mind as a citizen, even if there is some financial consequences to Apple. It would be improper and possibly illegal for him to speak out in the same way about a foreign country as a spokesperson for Apple because it would be in violation of his fiduciary responsibility to the shareholders if there were financial repercussions because of his criticism.


     

    There is no legally enshrined "fiduciary responsibility to shareholders" that would prevent Tim from saying anything like that.

  • Reply 90 of 394

    Love Apple products, hate the PC crap coming out of their management now . . . Apple assembles their products in China for god's sake!  Coal pollution, censorship of Google and the internet, no reproductive freedom, no freedom of assembly, no voting rights, no gay rights, no press freedom, no gender equality, WTF?  Just shut the f*$k up and let us buy your products so that you can get rich, drive your Tesla's and ride to work in your Bentley's.  Only a moral midget would take a stand on Indiana over pizza delivery and give a pass to the medieval political regime in China  . . .

  • Reply 91 of 394
    apple ][apple ][ Posts: 9,233member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by TechManMike View Post

     

    I would be totally okay with him not saying anything regarding the matter, but when he chooses to publicly chide Indiana, then I would at least like to see some consistency so that I can take him seriously. 


     

    Exactly. I've said numerous times in the past that I would prefer that Apple were not political at all, but that hasn't been the case. They have chosen to speak out on a number of issues, and that is of course their choice, but it also opens them up to criticism or to accusations of hypocrisy, as we see in this case.

  • Reply 92 of 394
    waltgwaltg Posts: 90member
    Fired CEO, which is almost unheard of in the US, so that explains how bad she really was, now even worse politician showing her brilliance.......
  • Reply 93 of 394
    mstonemstone Posts: 11,510member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Crowley View Post

     

     

    There is no legally enshrined "fiduciary responsibility to shareholders" that would prevent Tim from saying anything like that.


    Well, I for one would immediately short the stock if he started in with China about human rights and LGBT discrimination.

  • Reply 94 of 394
    quadra 610quadra 610 Posts: 6,756member
    This is about the US, Carly. Leave China to China (and to companies that make a profit there.)

    How's life at the helm of the wealthiest consumer tech company on the planet?






    oh wait...
  • Reply 95 of 394
    mstonemstone Posts: 11,510member
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Waltg View Post



    Fired CEO, which is almost unheard of in the US, so that explains how bad she really was, now even worse politician showing her brilliance.......

    CEOs are rarely fired. They "offer their resignation," leave to "pursue new opportunities," "retire" or gracefully "step down."

  • Reply 96 of 394
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 13,377member
    I heard a similar argument from the right saying that "liberals" (is there anything more demonic in the US!) are hypocrites because they want equality for homosexuals in Indiana, but are also wanting a nuclear deal with Iran, who demonize gay people.
    You do realize that Obama has moved the world closer to nuclear war than nay president since WW2.
    They don't seem to understand that just because you can't make everything better, it doesn't mean you shouldn't try to make something better.
    There in lies the problem, people don't see the gay rights movement as making things better in this world.
    If Cook and others are able to play a part in making the world a more equal place, good on them.
    Equality under the law is one thing but to demand equality for every deviant behavior is asinine. You have to draw the line somewhere or the next thing you will have is child molesters asking for their sexual rights. In a nut shell this is the big problem with the gay rights movement - where does this nonsense stop.
    Same goes for the CEO of Wal Mart who's pressure seems to have had a positive outcome in Alabama.
  • Reply 97 of 394
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by mstone View Post

     

     

    In the US Tim can speak his mind as a citizen, even if there is some financial consequences to Apple. It would be improper and possibly illegal for him to speak out in the same way about a foreign country as a spokesperson for Apple because it would be in violation of his fiduciary responsibility to the shareholders if there were financial repercussions because of his criticism.


     

    That's the whole point though my man. Only speaking when the terms are favorable for you but choosing not when they aren't is hypocritical any way you slice it. If your cause is THAT important to you, then you will stay true to it and stand up for it across the board; regardless of the circumstances you will stand up for your perception of "justice." He would do that even at a loss to himself, like potentially being ousted at Apple if he were to bring backlash and loss on the company and shareholders. The fact that he won't, shows just how deep his cause is to him. He'll only do stand up when the terms are favorable, i.e., when the majority powers that be agree with the cause. That's hypocritical.

  • Reply 98 of 394

    You lefties are precious, don't argue the point - attack the messenger  . . . what about Mr Cook's hypocrisy?  You with him?

  • Reply 99 of 394
    magic_almagic_al Posts: 325member

    Tim Cook is liberal, Carly Fiorina is conservative; therefore fairness requires that Fiorina must be afforded the same respect Tim Cook is. It does not matter how stupid and regressive Republican policies and politicians often are; we have a two-party system, red states and blue states, and whatever Republicans put forward as their best must be graded on a curve to be equally regarded as the best that Democrats have to offer. Any discussion of Fiorina's flaws as HP CEO must point out an equal number of flaws in Tim Cook's tenure at Apple, and any praise of Tim Cook must be side-by-side with an equal number of positive attributes of Fiorina. This is basic fairness out of respect for different views, and different levels of intelligence and integrity.

  • Reply 100 of 394

    Man, Tim has done a really good job at Apple! I've been really pleased with what he's taken on and accomplished in the wake of losing Steve. And however Tim chooses to live in his personal life is no business of mine. I would be totally okay with him not saying anything regarding the matter, but when he chooses to publicly chide Indiana, then I would at least like to see some consistency so that I can take him seriously. The fact that potential monetary loss could keep him from speaking out against it in other countries, shows that money is more important. I think that speaks volumes in terms of where someone's true loyalties are. But like I said, it just makes him hypocritical in this particular instance and I'm okay with being able to admit that. 

    apple ][ wrote: »
    Exactly. I've said numerous times in the past that I would prefer that Apple were not political at all, but that hasn't been the case. They have chosen to speak out on a number of issues, and that is of course their choice, but it also opens them up to criticism or to accusations of hypocrisy, as we see in this case.

    This. There's too much binary thinking going on. I can criticize one decision he's made, it doesn't mean I hate the man. But I don't think he's doing Apple a favor here, and the action is hypocritical.
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