they stated a ship date or time frame, and did not qualify it
it pre-dates Waytools hiring of Kahuna
Don't have to qualify it. Even when you order something that has been in GR for years, you don't always get it when estimated. Make it about something new and anyone who thinks it is some sort of assurance hasn't lived in the real world much.
But let's play your game about not qualifying it. So it didn't have to be April 2015. After all, as you say, they didn't "qualify it".
Now, I don't think they meant that either, but I'm just playing your game.
But you are right about one thing - it predates WayTools hiring me - mostly because I have yet to be hired!
...actually, how about we stop playing games... game-playing serves no-one well.
...and anyone saying anything to the effect of “I’ll stop, but they have to stop playing first...” is being pretty childish. Childishness (from me or anyone else) does nothing but demonstrate your childishness.
(As always, whatever one writes or what one chooses to respond to says everything about oneself and not really very much about anyone else - their posts reveal everything about them; have a bit of faith that reasonable people can see for themselves when someone is being silly... there’s no need to bludgeon the internet over the head with a pissing contest that just ends up spreading urine around on the rest of us - I am as guilty of this as anyone, but I’m always willing to at least try and not be a dick whenever I realise I’m being one... anyone who feels this is targeted at them is probably suffering a bit of a guilty conscience... )
>Wired USB mode is part of the new firmware infrastructure, by popular demand.
>Another nice byproduct of this firmware is longer running time per charge.
>Charges and connects via USB to host, without need for Bluetooth.
>But also -
>Can jump to a remote host via Bluetooth, even while plugged in and charging on local machine.
That will be nice. Not that I like wires, but it's always good to have that as an option in case you work in a place with lots of interference. And I guess, for gamers, it would be more responsive (though I don't know how many games could be set up with customized layouts that would be satisfactory).
While it runs long enough now, longer is always better.
Being able to charge while using it is good as well, though that may not be anything special. Just don't know.
But to be able to have it plugged into one device but still be able to jump via BT to another is very good.
If Mark Knighton and all of the staff at WayTools all got into car crashes or some other emergency and that was why they didn't deliver to us, I think we would all be very understanding of that and would not think that that violated our trust in them. It is the fact that they have not run into any sort of emergency along those lines and have still not yet delivered is why we are irate. Is that hard to understand? The 'unforeseen' problems that they have had are nothing like the drastic or life-threatening scenarios you are describing.
So if you want to be strict about your example, then fine--if 2019 passes and WayTools does not deliver on their "Yes" because Mark got run over by a car, then I will not consider them to have done wrong by me. But if they do not deliver because of their own foreseeable issues, then I will be upset just as I would be upset if my spouse said they would pick me up and then didn't for entirely foreseeable reasons.
I know that you will now go on to assert that the problems that have delayed the TextBlade are just like the car accident, but I submit that they are not. "Acts of God" are not the same as "Software is Hard". I do not doubt that what they are doing is difficult or even revolutionary. What I am saying is that that they have not run into the kind of extenuating circumstances (car crashes, warehouses burning down, war breaking out, suppliers going bankrupt, etc.) which call for the level of grace you are expecting everyone to give.
If Mark Knighton and all of the staff at WayTools all got into car crashes or some other emergency and that was why they didn't deliver to us, I think we would all be very understanding of that and would not think that that violated our trust in them. It is the fact that they have not run into any sort of emergency along those lines and have still not yet delivered is why we are irate. Is that hard to understand? The 'unforeseen' problems that they have had are nothing like the drastic or life-threatening scenarios you are describing.
I know that you will now go on to assert that the problems that have delayed the TextBlade are just like the car accident, but I submit that they are not.
My example is just to show that making a seemingly definitive statement ("Yes") is not necessarily as binary as some would claim in the real world. Especially for future events! So think of it as step one in establishing that it isn't that simple for determining a lie or not. I think I've established that. Then we can move on to specific examples, such as maybe their watch suddenly got very slow. And I have a real life example where essentially that happened - except in reverse. I had told students to be at practice at a certain time - and I'm a stickler for promptness. Well, almost all of them showed up about 10 minutes late. I was NOT happy. But, surprise, it turned out my watch had suddenly started to run really fast! Never saw that happen before or since but that's what happened. So it seems possible the reverse thing could happen to make someone late, but not be lying. And no, I'm not saying WT's clocks are running slow.
It certainly isn't about being an emergency. It was simply an unassailable example by using an emergency to establish the principle.
But from that example, we can see that sometimes things happen that are unexpected that make achieving a goal impossible.
The two things are fundamentally the same, whether it is an emergency or not. Because the key element isn't that one is an emergency. It is that the problem was unexpected.
[there follows some passive aggressive gibberish, imagine someone gargling a mouthful of lime jelly will humming "I am the very model of a modern Major-General"}
Yeah, but about those questions regarding the product you keep ignoring. How about you you answer them?
Just wild thought on a tech forum, in a thread about the article about your product.
Oh and as a separate note "we explained the refund process" is not even close to explaining how you said a thing that is not true regarding a financial transaction of which you have actual records. For goodness sake just admit you spoke before you checked and had made an assumption.
The question was asked here: What did they mean by ‘yes’? Speculation and debate followed. The question was then answered, as requested, elaborating on why our tone was more confident.
Clarification: the question was indeed answered as requested, and the elaboration amounted to backing away from the unqualified 'Yes' and provide a much more vague and mealy-mouthed platitude about confidence and progress progressing.
After a brief respite, more debate ensued. Now it has blurred into more theoretical and philosophical debate of possibilities and potential meanings. After the response. This is a curious phenomenon.
You are not serious. Ok, lets pretend. Waytools_Support - I would like to introduce you to Kahuna. Kahuna, meet Waytools_Support (as if the Waytools forum is not filled with countless pages of theoretical and philosphical 'debate' by the Kahuna troll and Waytools aka Mark Knighton is not well aware of it).
Imagine you and your friend meet a girl, and you ask “Do you want to go to the dance with me Friday night?” She answers “Yes.” Normally, you and your friend would not then spend several days debating how she might answer.
Unless that girls name happened to be Mary Knighton, in which case it would go like this:
Customer: Want to go to the dance Friday night? Mary Knighton: Yes Kahuna: When he says night, he might mean late afternoon, or early evening, or anytime after midnight but prior to the sun rising the following morning, but certainly not after sunrise, unless the date is actually occurring in another timezone. Mary Knighton: Does not show up for the date Customer: Stood up again Mary Knighton: We will go on a date next week/month/summer. Customer: Ok, you mean it this time? Mary Knighton: Yes Kahuna: 'Yes' is not an affirmation or assurance of arrival for the date next summer, but rather an unquantifiable variant of No. Repeat for 4 years. Etc.
Why dont you just answer peoples various questions directly Mark? All of my questions still stand. Here are two you ignored previously:
- What is the date of manufacture of the batteries in all of the Textblades in your inventory? - What is the expiration date of those batteries?
Two pallets of aging Textblades with expired batteries. Millions of dollars collected from 100,000+ customers? $95,419.84 in revenue per prototype test units (131) supplied? 2 unfinished test units provided to journalists. 4+ years of waiting. No product shipped. No keys for kids. Who has the money? Mark Knighton has the money.
My example is just to show that making a seemingly definitive statement ("Yes").................................
You are so incredibly boring.
Two pallets of aging Textblades with expired batteries. Millions of dollars collected from 100,000+ customers? $95,419.84 in revenue per prototype test units (131) supplied? 2 unfinished test units provided to journalists. 4+ years of waiting. No product shipped. No keys for kids. Who has the money? Mark Knighton has the money.
TextBladeDenied said: they stated a ship date or time frame, and did not qualify it
it pre-dates Waytools hiring of Kahuna
Don't have to qualify it. Even when you order something that has been in GR for years, you don't always get it when estimated. Make it about something new and anyone who thinks it is some sort of assurance hasn't lived in the real world much.
But let's play your game about not qualifying it. So it didn't have to be April 2015. After all, as you say, they didn't "qualify it".
Now, I don't think they meant that either, but I'm just playing your game.
The example I provided was not an 'estimate', it was an unqualified statement. You ignored that and mischaracterized it again. A lie. Then you threw in the April 2015 comment which you admit you did not believe to be the case. That is your way of conceding the point. They did mean April 2015. It was an unqualified statement as to when shipping was to begin, so I did address your challenge to provide an example, but you are going to be an insincere troll gasbag and expel more hot air arguing just for the sake of arguing. You are a waste of time.
Two pallets of aging Textblades with expired batteries. Millions of dollars collected from 100,000+ customers? $95,419.84 in revenue per prototype test units (131) supplied? 2 unfinished test units provided to journalists. 4+ years of waiting. No product shipped. No keys for kids. Who has the money? Mark Knighton has the money.
> the elaboration amounted to backing away from the unqualified 'Yes'
Let me know when you can deal with the example I gave for how such things are not really unqualified.
> Kahuna: When he says night, he might mean....
Actually, I would not have made those arguments because they don't make sense. But I will correct people who insist on odd limits to some time frames - and I explain why. I started doing that because WT would make a post saying, "We'll post about that next week". Then on Tuesday of the next week, we'd have people saying, "WayTools lied. They said next week and they haven't done it yet".
So I'd point out the various legitimate limits to "next week" could actually be, which would include:
Friday (last day of the work week for most Americans). Saturday (last day of the calendar week on most American calendars) Sunday (since most Americans go back to work on Monday, they think of it as the start of their week, thus Sunday would be the end).
Funny how those facts get ridiculed, yet they fail to show what was wrong with it. Probably because they are all legitimate. And they also failed to say those who would limit it to Tuesday were wrong. Hard to take such people seriously.
> the elaboration amounted to backing away from the unqualified 'Yes'
Let me know when you can deal with the example I gave for how such things are not really unqualified.
That part of your argument is just blatantly dishonest and I am not going to engage you on it anymore. This is why you are often called a shill. You argue in bad faith. You are a liar. No one is interested in finding common ground with someone who is perpetually insincere.
Two pallets of aging Textblades with expired batteries. Millions of dollars collected from 100,000+ customers? $95,419.84 in revenue per prototype test units (131) supplied? 2 unfinished test units provided to journalists. 4+ years of waiting. No product shipped. No keys for kids. Who has the money? Mark Knighton has the money. For reference, a March 2015 thread from the Waytools forum demonstrating the same Mark Knighton style of paranoid, aggressive, and unprofessional behavior: http://alturl.com/3qyj5
Oh, goodness gracious, despite my well intentioned call to drop shenanigans earlier, I’ll bite...
dbk, that isn’t even remotely true, you have demonstrated on forum after forum after forum that you have little to no impulse control and you cannot help but act out a perceived need to retaliate to anything and everything... You do not decide what you respond to (that statement is true for most people but you demonstrably fail to fit in to that category...); you are one of the people most easily manipulated in to retaliation that I have ever come across (over the age of 7...). A “decision” implies choice and control (from a technical standpoint, it’s the hypothalamic-pituitary axis involving cortisol’s effects on decision making and risk assessment if anyone’s academically minded and likes a little neuroscience/endocrinology...). Based on historical evidence, I find it highly doubtful you have enough self control to not retort when a choice presents itself (and you’d likely rationalise “there’s no real choice...”; nonsense...); I beg you, by all that is sane in this universe to please, please prove me wrong and stop escalating to DEFCON-1-combat-mode...
No need to come up with a “but other parties did something first...” or any other “whataboutism...”; that would be a reflex, uncontrolled response. Demonstrate some self-control and maybe “decide” not to retaliate - it serves no useful purpose and simply lowers the tone (and tangentially pivots off topic... again...)
That was a lot of words that didn’t disprove what I said. You just assume why I decide. You are not qualified to read minds. My choice vs your assumptions. But I suspect you’ll keep doing it.
Finally some truth from DBK, you definitely are suspect!
If you weren’t a tregger twice over you’d be as mad as hell as the rest of us, but you’ve been bribed twice over and so you feel the need to defend your Stockholmers, and thus you have developed Stockholm syndrome.
Your attempts to bring Waytools into line by diplomatically questioning where updates are or when specific time periods may end, i.e. a Friday or Saturday or Sunday or the end of the month etc are nice tries at pretending to be objective, but your objectivity went out the window, down the hill and way out into the ocean the moment you received a TREG unit well before just about everyone else, and we all see right through it!
DBK... Da Big Kablahblah.
Everyone is sick and tired of hearing your endless rationalisations and fake attempts at fairness, you are tarnished with the TREG brush and as such simply cannot be trusted.
TREG: traitorous rubbish egregiously generated by the paid-off DBK, paid off in two TREG units and whose objectivity is floating around the great swirl of plastic rubbish floating around the Pacific Ocean.
There is no need to to be ungracious about TREG as a whole. DBK's actions are his own, and a goodly number of TREG members are very civil and helpful, certainly to me and to others that I have seen.
If you are angry at WT, I understand, if you are frustrated with DBK, I understand, but my opinion is that some of your post might be misjudged and you are a great deal better than that.
Comments
...and anyone saying anything to the effect of “I’ll stop, but they have to stop playing first...” is being pretty childish. Childishness (from me or anyone else) does nothing but demonstrate your childishness.
(As always, whatever one writes or what one chooses to respond to says everything about oneself and not really very much about anyone else - their posts reveal everything about them; have a bit of faith that reasonable people can see for themselves when someone is being silly... there’s no need to bludgeon the internet over the head with a pissing contest that just ends up spreading urine around on the rest of us - I am as guilty of this as anyone, but I’m always willing to at least try and not be a dick whenever I realise I’m being one... anyone who feels this is targeted at them is probably suffering a bit of a guilty conscience...
>Wired USB mode is part of the new firmware infrastructure, by popular demand.
>Another nice byproduct of this firmware is longer running time per charge.
>Charges and connects via USB to host, without need for Bluetooth.
>But also -
>Can jump to a remote host via Bluetooth, even while plugged in and charging on local machine.
That will be nice. Not that I like wires, but it's always good to have that as an option in case you work in a place with lots of interference. And I guess, for gamers, it would be more responsive (though I don't know how many games could be set up with customized layouts that would be satisfactory).
While it runs long enough now, longer is always better.
Being able to charge while using it is good as well, though that may not be anything special. Just don't know.
But to be able to have it plugged into one device but still be able to jump via BT to another is very good.
So if you want to be strict about your example, then fine--if 2019 passes and WayTools does not deliver on their "Yes" because Mark got run over by a car, then I will not consider them to have done wrong by me. But if they do not deliver because of their own foreseeable issues, then I will be upset just as I would be upset if my spouse said they would pick me up and then didn't for entirely foreseeable reasons.
I know that you will now go on to assert that the problems that have delayed the TextBlade are just like the car accident, but I submit that they are not. "Acts of God" are not the same as "Software is Hard". I do not doubt that what they are doing is difficult or even revolutionary. What I am saying is that that they have not run into the kind of extenuating circumstances (car crashes, warehouses burning down, war breaking out, suppliers going bankrupt, etc.) which call for the level of grace you are expecting everyone to give.
It certainly isn't about being an emergency. It was simply an unassailable example by using an emergency to establish the principle.
But from that example, we can see that sometimes things happen that are unexpected that make achieving a goal impossible.
The two things are fundamentally the same, whether it is an emergency or not. Because the key element isn't that one is an emergency. It is that the problem was unexpected.
if there is a particular user you want to watch, the WayTools forum supports that, e.g.
https://forum.waytools.com/users/waytools/activity
The question was asked here: What did they mean by ‘yes’?
Speculation and debate followed.
The question was then answered, as requested, elaborating on why our tone was more confident.
The answer was provided right here, directly from the folks doing this work.
After a brief respite, more debate ensued.
Now it has blurred into more theoretical and philosophical debate of possibilities and potential meanings. After the response.
This is a curious phenomenon.
—————
Imagine you and your friend meet a girl, and you ask “Do you want to go to the dance with me Friday night?”
She answers “Yes.”
Normally, you and your friend would not then spend several days debating how she might answer.
—————
The motivation for ping-pong debate can vary.
Sometimes people are genuinely intellectually intrigued by the imponderable, and enjoy musing about it endlessly.
Sometimes it’s a way to peg discussion to a narrow message or topic.
Either way, ping-pong debate generally does not advance communal knowledge. Folks just tune out.
—————
Amazingly, those sort of posts have ticked the counter past 700. Not sure how compelling those volleys are for others besides the players.
When a question is asked, or an assertion is made, unless it’s rhetorical, you look for an answer, to advance the discussion.
Just wild thought on a tech forum, in a thread about the article about your product.
Oh and as a separate note "we explained the refund process" is not even close to explaining how you said a thing that is not true regarding a financial transaction of which you have actual records. For goodness sake just admit you spoke before you checked and had made an assumption.
R
You are not serious. Ok, lets pretend. Waytools_Support - I would like to introduce you to Kahuna. Kahuna, meet Waytools_Support (as if the Waytools forum is not filled with countless pages of theoretical and philosphical 'debate' by the Kahuna troll and Waytools aka Mark Knighton is not well aware of it).
Unless that girls name happened to be Mary Knighton, in which case it would go like this:
Customer: Want to go to the dance Friday night?
Mary Knighton: Yes
Kahuna: When he says night, he might mean late afternoon, or early evening, or anytime after midnight but prior to the sun rising the following morning, but certainly not after sunrise, unless the date is actually occurring in another timezone.
Mary Knighton: Does not show up for the date
Customer: Stood up again
Mary Knighton: We will go on a date next week/month/summer.
Customer: Ok, you mean it this time?
Mary Knighton: Yes
Kahuna: 'Yes' is not an affirmation or assurance of arrival for the date next summer, but rather an unquantifiable variant of No.
Repeat for 4 years. Etc.
Why dont you just answer peoples various questions directly Mark? All of my questions still stand. Here are two you ignored previously:
- What is the date of manufacture of the batteries in all of the Textblades in your inventory?
- What is the expiration date of those batteries?
> Kahuna: When he says night, he might mean....
Actually, I would not have made those arguments because they don't make sense. But I will correct people who insist on odd limits to some time frames - and I explain why. I started doing that because WT would make a post saying, "We'll post about that next week". Then on Tuesday of the next week, we'd have people saying, "WayTools lied. They said next week and they haven't done it yet".
So I'd point out the various legitimate limits to "next week" could actually be, which would include:
Friday (last day of the work week for most Americans).
Saturday (last day of the calendar week on most American calendars)
Sunday (since most Americans go back to work on Monday, they think of it as the start of their week, thus Sunday would be the end).
Funny how those facts get ridiculed, yet they fail to show what was wrong with it. Probably because they are all legitimate. And they also failed to say those who would limit it to Tuesday were wrong. Hard to take such people seriously.
> Then you threw in the April 2015 comment which you admit you did not believe to be the case.
As pointed out, I was using your "logic". They didn't specify 2015. You see, I am not bound by your logic, but I'll hold you to your own.
you never engage in things to can’t counter.
dbk, that isn’t even remotely true, you have demonstrated on forum after forum after forum that you have little to no impulse control and you cannot help but act out a perceived need to retaliate to anything and everything... You do not decide what you respond to (that statement is true for most people but you demonstrably fail to fit in to that category...); you are one of the people most easily manipulated in to retaliation that I have ever come across (over the age of 7...). A “decision” implies choice and control (from a technical standpoint, it’s the hypothalamic-pituitary axis involving cortisol’s effects on decision making and risk assessment if anyone’s academically minded and likes a little neuroscience/endocrinology...). Based on historical evidence, I find it highly doubtful you have enough self control to not retort when a choice presents itself (and you’d likely rationalise “there’s no real choice...”; nonsense...); I beg you, by all that is sane in this universe to please, please prove me wrong and stop escalating to DEFCON-1-combat-mode...
No need to come up with a “but other parties did something first...” or any other “whataboutism...”; that would be a reflex, uncontrolled response. Demonstrate some self-control and maybe “decide” not to retaliate - it serves no useful purpose and simply lowers the tone (and tangentially pivots off topic... again...)
[facepalm...]
If you weren’t a tregger twice over you’d be as mad as hell as the rest of us, but you’ve been bribed twice over and so you feel the need to defend your Stockholmers, and thus you have developed Stockholm syndrome.
Your attempts to bring Waytools into line by diplomatically questioning where updates are or when specific time periods may end, i.e. a Friday or Saturday or Sunday or the end of the month etc are nice tries at pretending to be objective, but your objectivity went out the window, down the hill and way out into the ocean the moment you received a TREG unit well before just about everyone else, and we all see right through it!
DBK... Da Big Kablahblah.
Everyone is sick and tired of hearing your endless rationalisations and fake attempts at fairness, you are tarnished with the TREG brush and as such simply cannot be trusted.
TREG: traitorous rubbish egregiously generated by the paid-off DBK, paid off in two TREG units and whose objectivity is floating around the great swirl of plastic rubbish floating around the Pacific Ocean.
There is no need to to be ungracious about TREG as a whole. DBK's actions are his own, and a goodly number of TREG members are very civil and helpful, certainly to me and to others that I have seen.
If you are angry at WT, I understand, if you are frustrated with DBK, I understand, but my opinion is that some of your post might be misjudged and you are a great deal better than that.
Some us just wanted a small keyboard.
R