That was a lot of words that didn’t disprove what I said. You just assume why I decide. You are not qualified to read minds. My choice vs your assumptions. But I suspect you’ll keep doing it.
(...and there you go, making my point... [facepalm])
I am actually qualified to make psychological and psychiatric assessments however. “Reading minds” is a lot closer to my area of qualification than you realise, that’s, in a manner of speaking, precisely what I do darlin’... you, my dear are an open book [yawn]... a lay person may assume in this regard. I, on the other hand assess... more than happy for you to get a second psychiatric opinion, in fact I encourage it...
(...that was probably not the best phrase/rationale to have used... especially since you are already aware of my profession... you did give me a chortle though... )
Arkorott - firmware infrastructure update is main focus, per our posts on our forum.
We’ll be giving a tech update this month on our forum, with some of the interesting technical details. Please have a look there for news about it. Thanks
ok, thanks for the response. Will wait for it guess. But just to clarify just want to know in the broadest terms if there are other significant topics remaining to be addressed beyond the firmware rewrite. That is all I am asking
“Reading minds” is a lot closer to my area of qualification than you realise, that’s, in a manner of speaking, precisely what I do darlin’...
I have been trying not to get engaged in the WT labeled "Ping-Pong debate", but you made me laugh aloud...
and a goodly number of TREG members are very civil and helpful,
The above statement is absolutely correct. I have exchanged notes with some (before being banned) and a lot were very helpful and objective.. Being fair with DBK he does share usage insights & info that is useful. And he is willing to interact. He might be verbose, and might get easily derailed into useless debates, and perhaps sometimes not objective enough, but I disagree when people just attack him. You might disagree with him (I strongly do on some points), but these attacks feel like shooting the messenger.
I try to not "take the bait", and focus only about the TB, and project. And ask WayTools_Support directly.
Nevertheless, I DO enjoy a lot most of these exchanges. I read them all. Pls carry on. (Post 666 of Alexonline priceless) I just think we are not getting much useful info FROM WT when we get distracted into semantics, etc etc.
> the elaboration amounted to backing away from the unqualified 'Yes'
Let me know when you can deal with the example I gave for how such things are not really unqualified.
Though this was not directed at me, I was the one who introduced the word "unqualified" into the discussion. I did so deliberately as it literally means that there are no other words attached. I did not think that could be debatable with a single word "Yes".
I have a lot more to say about this, but @WayTools_Support is right, the semantic quibbling is not advancing anything, so I will drop it.
Wow, it’s hard to imagine a psychiatrist speaking with such belittling taunts.
Wow, its hard to imagine the CEO of a company that is 4+ years behind schedule on the release date of its only product wasting his time posting such flippant observations on the internet when he should be working on getting the job done and meeting his obligations to thousands of customers who paid him.
Two pallets of aging Textblades with expired batteries. Millions of dollars collected from 100,000+ customers? $95,419.84 in revenue per prototype test units (131) supplied? 2 unfinished test units provided to journalists. 4+ years of waiting. No product shipped. No keys for kids. Who has the money? Mark Knighton has the money. For reference, a March 2015 thread from the Waytools forum demonstrating the same Mark Knighton style of paranoid, aggressive, and unprofessional behavior: http://alturl.com/3qyj5
Either way, ping-pong debate generally does not advance communal knowledge. Folks just tune out.
—————
Amazingly, those sort of posts have ticked the counter past 700. Not sure how compelling those volleys are for others besides the players.
When a question is asked, or an assertion is made, unless it’s rhetorical, you look for an answer, to advance the discussion.
Sorry for getting caught up in a pointless semantic debate. I will (hopefully) stop.
That said, I really was looking for an answer--I felt dismayed by your response and was hoping for re-assurance that I had badly misread you. It was not a rhetorical, and I'm still hoping for a clear* re-assuring response. I mean, if you honestly can't give one, that's fine too (if scary to me), but I'd like that to be clear too.
*Clear in this case meaning you stepping in--in a quick, short manner--and clarifying when I (or DBK for that matter) misread you.
That was some rant. All made up stuff, of course. I particularly liked the stuff about how my criticisms of WT on updates is just pretending to be objective.
Well , I guess that is the natural extension from prior accusations that I ALWAYS defend WT and never criticize them - by just declaring every example contrary to such assertions to be pretending!
“Reading minds” is a lot closer to my area of qualification than you realise, that’s, in a manner of speaking, precisely what I do darlin’... you, my dear are an open book [yawn]
Then you aren't very good at it. For others, this is how weidosmurf operates. He pretends to be trying to help me, but is actually abusing his training to use it as an insult.
Sort of like how a rich snob may tell a nicely dressed woman, "It really is amazing how nice someone can look with clothes from off the rack". The snob can claim they were complimenting the woman, but they were actually looking down on her.
I still post when and how I choose and on what issues.
Wow, it’s hard to imagine a psychiatrist speaking with such belittling taunts.
I’m guessing you’ll understand how many of your customers find it hard to imagine how a developer can set customer expectations so many times and blast right past them; how that developer can communicate so poorly with the very people who were early supporters of, and who (in my case) continue to want to see their orders fulfilled...
It’s pretty hard to imagine how a competent professional developer can have gotten themselves in such a 4yr tangle...
Perhaps rather than imagining my psychiatric practice, you might stick to answering the many unanswered questions in this thread (a thread about your product btw...) you’ve continued to avoid and pivot from... your unwillingness to address them is what leads people to suspicions (having nothing else to fill the void). If the reason you don’t want to give clear answers is because you are embarrassed and a bit burned by failures along the way, then I can assure you, people can forgive plenty; provided you are up front with them. Ducking, weaving, going silent and dodging, being less than forthcoming, these are what harden people’s opinions against you...
Alex - yes, we acknowledge that even though you hadn’t pushed the button, we refunded you.
Sometimes a vendor must withdraw from a transaction as resolution, if a customer is unlikely to be satisfied with any action taken to service them.
We’re sorry that our communication did not please you. Please consider whether the tone of your own posts would feel reasonable if you were on the receiving end.
Since you’re still engaged on topic, we hope that you’ll ultimately have a good experience with a unit, and are very happy.
Hi Mike, I apologise to you and DBK, and will abide by AI forum rules from now on.
I just have a simple message for Waytools_Support to end with, which merely quotes their own words: “Please consider whether the tone of your own posts would feel reasonable if you were on the receiving end.“
Well, all readers here can see the tone of Waytools_Support posts, and I truly wish they would consider them and whether the 4+ years of excuses and delays are “reasonable” or not, seeing as all of us here are “on the receiving end.”
I want to finish by genuinely wishing Waytools success in finishing what they themselves have said time and again is a revolutionary product, so that we all truly can benefit.
As Rolanbek wisely noted, “some of us just wanted a small keyboard”, and as one of the first to place an order on January 15, 2015, I can certainly attest to and wholeheartedly agree with that.
Okay, everybody stop. Go read the commenting guidelines. Don't post again until you do, and comply with what you read.
I just read them, and I apologize for where I went out of bounds.
There is one person on this thread who claims not to work for the company in question, but trolls every single person who criticizes Waytools to any degree. A much better conversation could be had by all if:
1) Waytools_Support (Mark Knighton) responded to direct questions from customers 2) Kahuna refrained from answering questions on behalf of Waytools_Support
Unfortunately, neither seems likely to happen. Kahuna will likely respond to this by trolling me further, and Waytools_Support will respond off topic or not at all.
The conundrum was that Appleinsider published this article seemingly unaware of the extent of ill will this company has shown towards its customers and generated towards itself. I am not blaming Appleinsider for not knowing the degree of animosity that existed here, although a bit of digging through Macrumors, Reddit, or the Waytools forum probably might have exposed it if a reporter was interested in looking.
The criticism of Waytools and Mark Knighton that has been expressed here was sincere, and necessary. My criticism, and certainly others as well, elicited the kind of bizarre and paranoid responses we have received for years from Mark Knighton, and I believe that engaging him here helped to illuminate the character of the individual and thus the company. Readers can now make a more informed decision about whether to give this company their money or not.
I stand by my principled position, that Mark Knighton sought publicity through this Appleinsider article in pursuit of additional revenue, as in the past such as with Macrumors, but does not have (and will not admit that he does not have) the financial or technical resources required to ship a finished product to everyone who ordered over the past 4 years, and thus deserves strong public criticism and condemnation for his unethical business tactics.
Beyond that, I know all of this has become repetitious and unproductive. It would be great if we could just ask Mark Knighton simple questions and get direct answers, but that seems futile.
Two pallets of aging Textblades with expired batteries. Millions of dollars collected from 100,000+ customers? $95,419.84 in revenue per prototype test units (131) supplied? 2 unfinished test units provided to journalists. 4+ years of waiting. No product shipped. No keys for kids. Who has the money? Mark Knighton has the money. For reference, a March 2015 thread from the Waytools forum demonstrating the same Mark Knighton style of paranoid, aggressive, and unprofessional behavior: http://alturl.com/3qyj5
There is one person on this thread who claims not to work for the company in question, but trolls every single person who criticizes Waytools to any degree. A much better conversation could be had by all if:
1) Waytools_Support (Mark Knighton) responded to direct questions from customers 2) Kahuna refrained from answering questions on behalf of WayTools_Support
1. I certainly have no objection to WT responding to questions, especially since I've been pushing them on better communication for a long time. 2. I respond where I want and for my own purposes. 3. That is not trolling.
It works better if there are fewer assumptions. You might find more common ground.
One bit of common ground is: No one has got what they paid for yet.
While TREG members use a prototype unit, it remains the property of WT. So they are also waiting for GR to get what they paid for. That they effectively pay for that test access with their time and data is a matter for them to deal with.
I would like my questions regarding the product I purchased answered by the company that I purchased the product from. One can dream that after 4 years of the type of response from the company typified by this thread that perhaps they might discuss their product and respond to my and others quite reasonable questions about their product and the massively delayed project to deliver it to us.
I speak for no one other than myself, I am no catspaw or ringleader. I just want to know where my stuff is, what known items need to be done before it gets to me and how long that might actually take. I would like the corporate entity represented in this thread to stop publishing misleading statements about me, and others and to stop misrepresenting financial transactions. If that can't be arranged I would at least like them not be published on this moderated platform.
R
Edit: trailing returns.. Edit: the second: fixing auto correct...
Your language above is thankfully more civil. However, your history of posts, even just on AI’s venue, is very different from what you now say.
“I just want to know where my stuff is.” Has long been preceded by this message -
(It won’t ship. Don’t buy it. But I’m keeping my order just so I can sue - for taking my money - which I won’t let them refund.)
You posted above claiming we misrepresent your reputation. Our response -
Your own extensive posts are what define your reputation. There is plenty that controverts your new version.
Anyone who wishes to judge for themselves what misleading has been done, can simply read your prior posts.
Good points worth reflecting upon from the AI Forum Rules page -
4. Don't start personal flame-wars with other commenters or insult AppleInsider's editors for tone, bias, or how they chose to cover a story or feature.
7. Remain civil. While we will never censor based on a point of view, you must present your views in a civil manner.
8. No ad hominem attacks, or similar. "Fanboy," "sheep," and other similar permutations are not allowed by any user, at any time.
9. If you are going to bicker with someone, do it through a private message, email, or instant messaging. There's no need to annoy everyone with it.
12. Don't spam a single thread or multiple ones with substantively the same content.
17. Don't try to bait other forum-goers into breaking the rules. If we think you are, that gets you a strike too!
When all else fails, just remember - be civil! Don't say things here that you wouldn't say face-to-face, or in front of your own children.
——————-
These rules are conceived to promote a productive forum. There’s wisdom in why each of them exist.
Immediately after a fresh read of these rules, the closing paragraph of post 736, yet again contravenes each of the rules cited above.
That paragraph, objectively and inarguably is -
Repetition of substantively the same content, containing explicit ad hominem attacks, in a personal flame-war, to publicly bicker, using uncivil terms, to bait the target to respond to the repetitive false accusations.
We won’t swallow that bait.
We won’t refute each false point.
It is hard to see any sincerity in a message that claims to apologize, laments repetition, and then proceeds to repeat it all profusely.
As is a signature of these messages, all of the bad doings are then claimed to be the fault of the target.
The faux-apology was simply useful - a new opportunity to throw another punch.
We expect it will continue, repetitively, unpleasantly and unproductively.
It will persist for so long as such posters can deliver fresh payloads of substantively the same content, and circumvent accountability to the rules.
The consistency of these messages, here, and across the internet, over years of sustained targeting, betrays an underlying economic impetus.
It is inconceivable that we or any manufacturer would go to all the trouble, and maintain steady advances for years, to meticulously build a dramatically new machine, which is consistently judged superior ... all just to fool people.
If someone plans a scam, they don’t use their real names, nor make verifiably good work-product.
A deceiver’s only work-product is false words, and only identity is anonymous.
If only you were as diligent and meticulous in your work as you are with your responses, the last 4+ years would not have happened, and you wouldn’t have such outraged current and former customers.
Please cease and desist with your responses to obviously unhappy current and former customers, all due to your own efforts or lack thereof, and as I and others have noted... please get back to work so we can all enjoy TextBlade at long last.
Then the orders will flow, and all your hard work will be rewarded with truly delighted customers, as you and all of us want so very dearly.
Please Lord, may this happen in 2019, please help Waytools_Support in reaching General Release.
Comments
I am actually qualified to make psychological and psychiatric assessments however. “Reading minds” is a lot closer to my area of qualification than you realise, that’s, in a manner of speaking, precisely what I do darlin’... you, my dear are an open book [yawn]... a lay person may assume in this regard. I, on the other hand assess... more than happy for you to get a second psychiatric opinion, in fact I encourage it...
(...that was probably not the best phrase/rationale to have used... especially since you are already aware of my profession... you did give me a chortle though...
edit: typo
I have been trying not to get engaged in the WT labeled "Ping-Pong debate", but you made me laugh aloud...
The above statement is absolutely correct. I have exchanged notes with some (before being banned) and a lot were very helpful and objective..
Being fair with DBK he does share usage insights & info that is useful. And he is willing to interact. He might be verbose, and might get easily derailed into useless debates, and perhaps sometimes not objective enough, but I disagree when people just attack him. You might disagree with him (I strongly do on some points), but these attacks feel like shooting the messenger.
I try to not "take the bait", and focus only about the TB, and project. And ask WayTools_Support directly.
Nevertheless, I DO enjoy a lot most of these exchanges. I read them all. Pls carry on. (Post 666 of Alexonline priceless)
I just think we are not getting much useful info FROM WT when we get distracted into semantics, etc etc.
I have a lot more to say about this, but @WayTools_Support is right, the semantic quibbling is not advancing anything, so I will drop it.
That said, I really was looking for an answer--I felt dismayed by your response and was hoping for re-assurance that I had badly misread you. It was not a rhetorical, and I'm still hoping for a clear* re-assuring response. I mean, if you honestly can't give one, that's fine too (if scary to me), but I'd like that to be clear too.
*Clear in this case meaning you stepping in--in a quick, short manner--and clarifying when I (or DBK for that matter) misread you.
Well , I guess that is the natural extension from prior accusations that I ALWAYS defend WT and never criticize them - by just declaring every example contrary to such assertions to be pretending!
Sort of like how a rich snob may tell a nicely dressed woman, "It really is amazing how nice someone can look with clothes from off the rack". The snob can claim they were complimenting the woman, but they were actually looking down on her.
I still post when and how I choose and on what issues.
It’s pretty hard to imagine how a competent professional developer can have gotten themselves in such a 4yr tangle...
Perhaps rather than imagining my psychiatric practice, you might stick to answering the many unanswered questions in this thread (a thread about your product btw...) you’ve continued to avoid and pivot from... your unwillingness to address them is what leads people to suspicions (having nothing else to fill the void). If the reason you don’t want to give clear answers is because you are embarrassed and a bit burned by failures along the way, then I can assure you, people can forgive plenty; provided you are up front with them. Ducking, weaving, going silent and dodging, being less than forthcoming, these are what harden people’s opinions against you...
Smurf...
I just have a simple message for Waytools_Support to end with, which merely quotes their own words: “Please consider whether the tone of your own posts would feel reasonable if you were on the receiving end.“
Well, all readers here can see the tone of Waytools_Support posts, and I truly wish they would consider them and whether the 4+ years of excuses and delays are “reasonable” or not, seeing as all of us here are “on the receiving end.”
I want to finish by genuinely wishing Waytools success in finishing what they themselves have said time and again is a revolutionary product, so that we all truly can benefit.
As Rolanbek wisely noted, “some of us just wanted a small keyboard”, and as one of the first to place an order on January 15, 2015, I can certainly attest to and wholeheartedly agree with that.
May the Force be with us all.
There is one person on this thread who claims not to work for the company in question, but trolls every single person who criticizes Waytools to any degree. A much better conversation could be had by all if:
1) Waytools_Support (Mark Knighton) responded to direct questions from customers
2) Kahuna refrained from answering questions on behalf of Waytools_Support
Unfortunately, neither seems likely to happen. Kahuna will likely respond to this by trolling me further, and Waytools_Support will respond off topic or not at all.
The conundrum was that Appleinsider published this article seemingly unaware of the extent of ill will this company has shown towards its customers and generated towards itself. I am not blaming Appleinsider for not knowing the degree of animosity that existed here, although a bit of digging through Macrumors, Reddit, or the Waytools forum probably might have exposed it if a reporter was interested in looking.
The criticism of Waytools and Mark Knighton that has been expressed here was sincere, and necessary. My criticism, and certainly others as well, elicited the kind of bizarre and paranoid responses we have received for years from Mark Knighton, and I believe that engaging him here helped to illuminate the character of the individual and thus the company. Readers can now make a more informed decision about whether to give this company their money or not.
I stand by my principled position, that Mark Knighton sought publicity through this Appleinsider article in pursuit of additional revenue, as in the past such as with Macrumors, but does not have (and will not admit that he does not have) the financial or technical resources required to ship a finished product to everyone who ordered over the past 4 years, and thus deserves strong public criticism and condemnation for his unethical business tactics.
Beyond that, I know all of this has become repetitious and unproductive. It would be great if we could just ask Mark Knighton simple questions and get direct answers, but that seems futile.
2. I respond where I want and for my own purposes.
3. That is not trolling.
While TREG members use a prototype unit, it remains the property of WT. So they are also waiting for GR to get what they paid for. That they effectively pay for that test access with their time and data is a matter for them to deal with.
I would like my questions regarding the product I purchased answered by the company that I purchased the product from. One can dream that after 4 years of the type of response from the company typified by this thread that perhaps they might discuss their product and respond to my and others quite reasonable questions about their product and the massively delayed project to deliver it to us.
I speak for no one other than myself, I am no catspaw or ringleader. I just want to know where my stuff is, what known items need to be done before it gets to me and how long that might actually take. I would like the corporate entity represented in this thread to stop publishing misleading statements about me, and others and to stop misrepresenting financial transactions. If that can't be arranged I would at least like them not be published on this moderated platform.
R
Edit: trailing returns..
Edit: the second: fixing auto correct...
https://forum.waytools.com/c/Reviews
Your language above is thankfully more civil. However, your history of posts, even just on AI’s venue, is very different from what you now say.
“I just want to know where my stuff is.” Has long been preceded by this message -
(It won’t ship. Don’t buy it. But I’m keeping my order just so I can sue - for taking my money - which I won’t let them refund.)
You posted above claiming we misrepresent your reputation. Our response -
Your own extensive posts are what define your reputation. There is plenty that controverts your new version.
Anyone who wishes to judge for themselves what misleading has been done, can simply read your prior posts.
Good points worth reflecting upon from the AI Forum Rules page -
4. Don't start personal flame-wars with other commenters or insult AppleInsider's editors for tone, bias, or how they chose to cover a story or feature.
7. Remain civil. While we will never censor based on a point of view, you must present your views in a civil manner.
8. No ad hominem attacks, or similar. "Fanboy," "sheep," and other similar permutations are not allowed by any user, at any time.
9. If you are going to bicker with someone, do it through a private message, email, or instant messaging. There's no need to annoy everyone with it.
12. Don't spam a single thread or multiple ones with substantively the same content.
17. Don't try to bait other forum-goers into breaking the rules. If we think you are, that gets you a strike too!
When all else fails, just remember - be civil! Don't say things here that you wouldn't say face-to-face, or in front of your own children.
——————-
These rules are conceived to promote a productive forum. There’s wisdom in why each of them exist.
Immediately after a fresh read of these rules, the closing paragraph of post 736, yet again contravenes each of the rules cited above.
That paragraph, objectively and inarguably is -
Repetition of substantively the same content, containing explicit ad hominem attacks, in a personal flame-war, to publicly bicker, using uncivil terms, to bait the target to respond to the repetitive false accusations.
We won’t swallow that bait.
We won’t refute each false point.
It is hard to see any sincerity in a message that claims to apologize, laments repetition, and then proceeds to repeat it all profusely.
As is a signature of these messages, all of the bad doings are then claimed to be the fault of the target.
The faux-apology was simply useful - a new opportunity to throw another punch.
We expect it will continue, repetitively, unpleasantly and unproductively.
It will persist for so long as such posters can deliver fresh payloads of substantively the same content, and circumvent accountability to the rules.
The consistency of these messages, here, and across the internet, over years of sustained targeting, betrays an underlying economic impetus.
It is inconceivable that we or any manufacturer would go to all the trouble, and maintain steady advances for years, to meticulously build a dramatically new machine, which is consistently judged superior ... all just to fool people.
If someone plans a scam, they don’t use their real names, nor make verifiably good work-product.
A deceiver’s only work-product is false words, and only identity is anonymous.
If only you were as diligent and meticulous in your work as you are with your responses, the last 4+ years would not have happened, and you wouldn’t have such outraged current and former customers.
Please cease and desist with your responses to obviously unhappy current and former customers, all due to your own efforts or lack thereof, and as I and others have noted... please get back to work so we can all enjoy TextBlade at long last.
Then the orders will flow, and all your hard work will be rewarded with truly delighted customers, as you and all of us want so very dearly.
Please Lord, may this happen in 2019, please help Waytools_Support in reaching General Release.
Thank you.
Alex.
The first folks to post were you, tbd, and Rolanbek, all of whom repeated the same kind of criticisms which unjustly impugn our work.
As discussed, some of this posting flies directly in the face of the forum rules.
if you wish us not to respond to such posts, please consider just not making provocative claims.
We didn’t initiate, we only responded.
It would be really nice for everyone if there we’re no attacks to answer.