Allegations of discrimination spawn investigation into Apple Card credit lines

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Comments

  • Reply 81 of 142
    SoliSoli Posts: 10,033member
    dee_dee said:
    anantksundaram said:

    I don’t — and I don’t care to — know who DHH is and whether he has a “trophy wife” who is, according to you, a “nothing (typical)” etc., but that has nothing to do with the point of the article. It is an Apple-branded card, and Apple can’t simply ignore the fallout that will result from this. It is already hitting the mainstream media in a big way, and I am guessing the publicity will grow.
    It has *everything* to do with the article.  It seems you are a bit slow to catch on so I'll explain it again for you again.  DHH is a millionaire, he has a wife, who makes nothing (typical).  If she wants to spend money (DHH's money) then she should ask him for an allowance of some sort, then everyone would be happy.
    Why does this site draw in so many misogynists?
    MplsPStrangeDaysanantksundaram
  • Reply 82 of 142
    SoliSoli Posts: 10,033member
    bulk001 said:
    Now everyone is an apologist for Goldman Sachs (alleged) discrimination against women? 
    I don't think that's the case here and I'm personally glad that the microscope that is applied to everything Apple related will now be applied to the issuance of credit cards.

    Maybe GS is at fault, but if there's an issue it's likely stemming from the credit bureau they use to pull specific metrics to determine if they want to issue credit, how high of a credit limit, and an interest rate.

    The problem most are having is with DHH's assumption that his wife should have the same credit worthiness as him. Even if they had the same exact score and all their bills combined this wouldn't be the case except in some very improbable circumstances.
    StrangeDaysanantksundaram
  • Reply 83 of 142
    Apple won’t even let me apply for the card. Their explanation is:

    the customer may have traveled abroad, or tried to setup [sic] Apple Pay when their device was set to a different region.”

    I hadn’t realized that traveling abroad disqualifies you from getting the Apple Card. So much for no foreign transaction charges. 
    edited November 2019 cat52
  • Reply 84 of 142
    DHH needs to state explicitly that his wife’s credit rating is similar to his own. Otherwise he’s wasting everyone’s time.


    You aren't the first person to imply that his wife's credit rating is the potential issue and I'll give you credit for doing so politely rather than some of the other folks on here that disparaged DHH and his wife in the process of suggesting this. The funny thing is, he did. It isn't mentioned in the Apple Insider article but in his twitter thread where he lays out his complaints he explicitly states that her score his higher than his. Further he calls out that they checked via Transunion which is who GS uses for Apple Card. 

    It's really entertaining how many people in these comments are calling him an idiot and or saying he doesn't know what he is talking about but haven't bothered to go look at what he has actually said. Most of the types of comments made here he has actually addressed. 

    The irony of people talking smack about the guy for not knowing something while at the same time proving they really haven't bothered to educate themselves on situation is pretty rich. 

    The crux of the issue is that nobody knows how GS makes a decision on card approval, credit limit and interest rate. If you contact GS Apple Card support and ask what factors they consider they don't know and just tell you the decision is made on the persons "credit worthiness". Anyone that thinks it is simply income + credit score is incorrect. My spouse and I both applied. We both used our combined income as our income (per the directions when applying) with both have credit scores in the 800s with mine being a few points higher. They got double the credit limit I did and their interest rate is lowest possible while mine is in the middle. So, trying to simplify it to income and credit score is misguided at best. 

    I am not saying DHH's claim that the algorithm is sexist is correct, I do agree with him that GS should be open about what factors are being considered for issue a card. There are clearly a series of inputs they are using and once your interest rate and credit limit are set they won't entertain changing them (I have tried) and they won't tell you why they made the decision. There is no harm in being transparent so people can ensure their "inputs" are in order prior to applying for a card and it would live up to the pro-consumer brand Apple and GS are trying to get. 

    So, despite your qualifier, it appears that you take his word for everything?
    The fact remains:  What would GS have to gain by discriminating against somebody with top flight credit?  GS is after money and profit.  They have zero incentive to not only discriminate but (likely) break the law.

    I'll go with GS on this one.   And, no, they do not have ANY obligation to expose their algorithms for determining credit worthiness.  That would simply invite cheating.
    It looks like you are kind of touching on three things here so I'm going to parse the subjects the best I can:

    1. I have no reason to think that DHH is lying about his or his wife's credit score or other financial information he has shared. If you have a non-speculative reason to think he is lying I am open to changing my mind on the subject. I don't agree with all the conclusions he drawn from the situation but I do agree with some of his criticisms of the lending industry. I can in fact disagree with someone on somethings and agree with them on others. His argument covers a lot and there is plenty of room in it for agreement and disagreement it doesn't have to be 100% one way or the other. 

    2. GS + Discrimination: If you read what DHH is saying, then you will see that he isn't arguing that GS discrimination is they byproduct of implicit bias vs. implicit bias. Which is to say that it GS didn't intentionally set out to discriminate against women. Further, he is leveling the criticism against the credit industry as whole and simply using GS as the example. Again, I don't feel like he has satisfied burden of proof on this one so please don't ask me to defend the stance. I am simply answering your question of how a person or organization could end up discriminating even if it wasn't in their best interest. 

    3. GS + Algorithms. We are in agreement here. GS + other lenders are not obligated to provide their algorithms to the public nor I did I claim the were or that doing so would be a good idea. An algorithm takes inputs, process them and produces outputs. The challenge is we only see the outputs. We know what two of the inputs are (credit score and income) but nothing past that and GS + other lenders are not transparent about that. I have an Apple Card and I have asked GS directly and they say they used credit score, income and other factors. What I am saying is GS and other lenders should be transparent about what inputs they use. How the process it to determine credit worthiness and prevent fraud is their business. We may disagree on this as well but I think it a far more consumer friendly approach when you are open about what information you are collecting about someone. 

    EDIT: My initial post was about how many people being critical of DHH haven't bother to read what he actually said and I offered that fact that he has actually covered many of the criticisms that they are bring up as evidence. What is particularly funny is he is also discouraging people from drawing conclusions based on his anecdote and encouraging  them to look at people that are experts in finical lending are saying. He is literally saying he may be entirely wrong and shouldn't be seen as knowing what he is talking about and people want to argue it anyway. It's f-ing ridiculous and shame on Apple Insider for going for a clickbait headline and not covering the actual story. 
    edited November 2019
  • Reply 85 of 142
    SoliSoli Posts: 10,033member
    tokyojimu said:
    Apple won’t even let me apply for the card. Their explanation is:

    ”the customer may have traveled abroad, or tried to setup [sic] Apple Pay when their device was set to a different region.”

    I hadn’t realized that traveling abroad disqualifies you from getting the Apple Card. So much for no foreign transaction charges. 
    1) I assume it's to prevent fraud. What did they say when you called the number for the GS Apple Card?

    2) While the card itself can be used internationally with transaction fees, that does mean that you can apply for the card in any country with any region set.
    edited November 2019 StrangeDays
  • Reply 86 of 142

    DHH needs to state explicitly that his wife’s credit rating is similar to his own. Otherwise he’s wasting everyone’s time.


    You aren't the first person to imply that his wife's credit rating is the potential issue and I'll give you credit for doing so politely rather than some of the other folks on here that disparaged DHH and his wife in the process of suggesting this. The funny thing is, he did. It isn't mentioned in the Apple Insider article but in his twitter thread where he lays out his complaints he explicitly states that her score his higher than his. Further he calls out that they checked via Transunion which is who GS uses for Apple Card. 

    It's really entertaining how many people in these comments are calling him an idiot and or saying he doesn't know what he is talking about but haven't bothered to go look at what he has actually said. Most of the types of comments made here he has actually addressed. 

    The irony of people talking smack about the guy for not knowing something while at the same time proving they really haven't bothered to educate themselves on situation is pretty rich. 

    The crux of the issue is that nobody knows how GS makes a decision on card approval, credit limit and interest rate. If you contact GS Apple Card support and ask what factors they consider they don't know and just tell you the decision is made on the persons "credit worthiness". Anyone that thinks it is simply income + credit score is incorrect. My spouse and I both applied. We both used our combined income as our income (per the directions when applying) with both have credit scores in the 800s with mine being a few points higher. They got double the credit limit I did and their interest rate is lowest possible while mine is in the middle. So, trying to simplify it to income and credit score is misguided at best. 

    I am not saying DHH's claim that the algorithm is sexist is correct, I do agree with him that GS should be open about what factors are being considered for issue a card. There are clearly a series of inputs they are using and once your interest rate and credit limit are set they won't entertain changing them (I have tried) and they won't tell you why they made the decision. There is no harm in being transparent so people can ensure their "inputs" are in order prior to applying for a card and it would live up to the pro-consumer brand Apple and GS are trying to get. 

    So did DHH also address the income question? Did they both answer that question the same way? In our case, we did what you did re: income, but we got the expected result — exactly the same interest rate and credit lines.

    Another question for him: Did they apply for their mortgage(s) jointly? That’s likely a factor.

    I get that algorithms like this are complex and proprietary, but a general description of the factors involved would be helpful. ... I wouldn’t hold my breath.

    Why are you asking me? My entire point was about people commenting what he is saying without bothering to read what he was saying. People that do that aren't interested in discourse they are simply interested in promoting their preconceived notions.

    If you what to know what he has said or ask him a question click on the link in the article and read what he said and ask him a question. He has been answering questions and clarifying. 

    Yeah, I'm not holding my breath on the lending industry becoming consumer friendly but I boy can dream. 
  • Reply 87 of 142
    pgpappas said:
    My wife and I had the same issue. She had a slightly higher credit score and makes more money than I do.  I received 10K in credit. She only got 7500. All other aspects of our financial information are the same. The only possible explanation is gender based discrimination.
    I don’t have time to read 90 comments, but this is completely wrong. As a developer who has worked on credit application apps for one of the most recognized credit lenders in the country (what’s in your wallet), I assure you that there must be explanations other than gender discrimination. We didn’t have code to discriminate based on gender. 
    edited November 2019 designrGeorgeBMacdee_deemacplusplussarthos
  • Reply 88 of 142
    tokyojimu said:
    Apple won’t even let me apply for the card. Their explanation is:

    ”the customer may have traveled abroad, or tried to setup [sic] Apple Pay when their device was set to a different region.”

    I hadn’t realized that traveling abroad disqualifies you from getting the Apple Card. So much for no foreign transaction charges. 
    Traveling abroad doesn’t disqualify you from the AC. Having a device that for some reason is not in the correct region does. Sounds like something you can troubleshoot with an agent. 
  • Reply 89 of 142
    dysamoriadysamoria Posts: 3,430member
    Fatman said:
    He can only make an argument if they are completely equal financially - working? salary? Credit rating history? Late payment history? Current balances/debt? Oldest account?  ... all based on algorithms for each individual. I’m sure they would love to extend her more credit if she qualifies and they can limit risk. If this dude didn’t look into all these things, he should be sued for libel.
    Sued for libel? How, exactly, has he harmed Goldman & Sachs? Chill out a bit and consider less extreme solutions.

    People on here hate when consumers sue corporations, but they do seem to like the notion of corporations suing consumers.
    chemengin1
  • Reply 90 of 142

    DHH needs to state explicitly that his wife’s credit rating is similar to his own. Otherwise he’s wasting everyone’s time.


    You aren't the first person to imply that his wife's credit rating is the potential issue and I'll give you credit for doing so politely rather than some of the other folks on here that disparaged DHH and his wife in the process of suggesting this. The funny thing is, he did. It isn't mentioned in the Apple Insider article but in his twitter thread where he lays out his complaints he explicitly states that her score his higher than his. Further he calls out that they checked via Transunion which is who GS uses for Apple Card. 

    It's really entertaining how many people in these comments are calling him an idiot and or saying he doesn't know what he is talking about but haven't bothered to go look at what he has actually said. Most of the types of comments made here he has actually addressed. 

    The irony of people talking smack about the guy for not knowing something while at the same time proving they really haven't bothered to educate themselves on situation is pretty rich. 

    The crux of the issue is that nobody knows how GS makes a decision on card approval, credit limit and interest rate. If you contact GS Apple Card support and ask what factors they consider they don't know and just tell you the decision is made on the persons "credit worthiness". Anyone that thinks it is simply income + credit score is incorrect. My spouse and I both applied. We both used our combined income as our income (per the directions when applying) with both have credit scores in the 800s with mine being a few points higher. They got double the credit limit I did and their interest rate is lowest possible while mine is in the middle. So, trying to simplify it to income and credit score is misguided at best. 

    I am not saying DHH's claim that the algorithm is sexist is correct, I do agree with him that GS should be open about what factors are being considered for issue a card. There are clearly a series of inputs they are using and once your interest rate and credit limit are set they won't entertain changing them (I have tried) and they won't tell you why they made the decision. There is no harm in being transparent so people can ensure their "inputs" are in order prior to applying for a card and it would live up to the pro-consumer brand Apple and GS are trying to get. 

    So, despite your qualifier, it appears that you take his word for everything?
    The fact remains:  What would GS have to gain by discriminating against somebody with top flight credit?  GS is after money and profit.  They have zero incentive to not only discriminate but (likely) break the law.

    I'll go with GS on this one.   And, no, they do not have ANY obligation to expose their algorithms for determining credit worthiness.  That would simply invite cheating.
    EDIT: My initial post was about how many people being critical of DHH haven't bother to read what he actually said and I offered that fact that he has actually covered many of the criticisms that they are bring up as evidence. What is particularly funny is he is also discouraging people from drawing conclusions based on his anecdote and encouraging  them to look at people that are experts in finical lending are saying. He is literally saying he may be entirely wrong and shouldn't be seen as knowing what he is talking about and people want to argue it anyway. It's f-ing ridiculous and shame on Apple Insider for going for a clickbait headline and not covering the actual story. 
    First he makes this absolute conclusion:

    “The @AppleCard is such a fucking sexist program“

    ...then he claims not to be an expert and not to weight his anecdotal and possibly/likely ignorant opinion, which he published on his massive public platform, despite now saying he may be entirely wrong. Can you say, “backpedaling”?

    And you say he’s the reasonable one? Riiiight...
    edited November 2019 SoliGeorgeBMacPickUrPoisonrandominternetpersonmacplusplus
  • Reply 91 of 142
    DHH needs to state explicitly that his wife’s credit rating is similar to his own. Otherwise he’s wasting everyone’s time.


    You aren't the first person to imply that his wife's credit rating is the potential issue and I'll give you credit for doing so politely rather than some of the other folks on here that disparaged DHH and his wife in the process of suggesting this. The funny thing is, he did. It isn't mentioned in the Apple Insider article but in his twitter thread where he lays out his complaints he explicitly states that her score his higher than his. Further he calls out that they checked via Transunion which is who GS uses for Apple Card. 

    It's really entertaining how many people in these comments are calling him an idiot and or saying he doesn't know what he is talking about but haven't bothered to go look at what he has actually said. Most of the types of comments made here he has actually addressed. 

    The irony of people talking smack about the guy for not knowing something while at the same time proving they really haven't bothered to educate themselves on situation is pretty rich. 

    The crux of the issue is that nobody knows how GS makes a decision on card approval, credit limit and interest rate. If you contact GS Apple Card support and ask what factors they consider they don't know and just tell you the decision is made on the persons "credit worthiness". Anyone that thinks it is simply income + credit score is incorrect. My spouse and I both applied. We both used our combined income as our income (per the directions when applying) with both have credit scores in the 800s with mine being a few points higher. They got double the credit limit I did and their interest rate is lowest possible while mine is in the middle. So, trying to simplify it to income and credit score is misguided at best. 

    I am not saying DHH's claim that the algorithm is sexist is correct, I do agree with him that GS should be open about what factors are being considered for issue a card. There are clearly a series of inputs they are using and once your interest rate and credit limit are set they won't entertain changing them (I have tried) and they won't tell you why they made the decision. There is no harm in being transparent so people can ensure their "inputs" are in order prior to applying for a card and it would live up to the pro-consumer brand Apple and GS are trying to get. 

    Looking at facts can often be inconvenient, since facts have this nasty attribute of making one confront one’s biases.

    Ignorance is bliss, as they say.
    SoliStrangeDaysrogifan_new
  • Reply 92 of 142

    DHH needs to state explicitly that his wife’s credit rating is similar to his own. Otherwise he’s wasting everyone’s time.


    You aren't the first person to imply that his wife's credit rating is the potential issue and I'll give you credit for doing so politely rather than some of the other folks on here that disparaged DHH and his wife in the process of suggesting this. The funny thing is, he did. It isn't mentioned in the Apple Insider article but in his twitter thread where he lays out his complaints he explicitly states that her score his higher than his. Further he calls out that they checked via Transunion which is who GS uses for Apple Card. 

    It's really entertaining how many people in these comments are calling him an idiot and or saying he doesn't know what he is talking about but haven't bothered to go look at what he has actually said. Most of the types of comments made here he has actually addressed. 

    The irony of people talking smack about the guy for not knowing something while at the same time proving they really haven't bothered to educate themselves on situation is pretty rich. 

    The crux of the issue is that nobody knows how GS makes a decision on card approval, credit limit and interest rate. If you contact GS Apple Card support and ask what factors they consider they don't know and just tell you the decision is made on the persons "credit worthiness". Anyone that thinks it is simply income + credit score is incorrect. My spouse and I both applied. We both used our combined income as our income (per the directions when applying) with both have credit scores in the 800s with mine being a few points higher. They got double the credit limit I did and their interest rate is lowest possible while mine is in the middle. So, trying to simplify it to income and credit score is misguided at best. 

    I am not saying DHH's claim that the algorithm is sexist is correct, I do agree with him that GS should be open about what factors are being considered for issue a card. There are clearly a series of inputs they are using and once your interest rate and credit limit are set they won't entertain changing them (I have tried) and they won't tell you why they made the decision. There is no harm in being transparent so people can ensure their "inputs" are in order prior to applying for a card and it would live up to the pro-consumer brand Apple and GS are trying to get. 

    So, despite your qualifier, it appears that you take his word for everything?
    The fact remains:  What would GS have to gain by discriminating against somebody with top flight credit?  GS is after money and profit.  They have zero incentive to not only discriminate but (likely) break the law.

    I'll go with GS on this one.   And, no, they do not have ANY obligation to expose their algorithms for determining credit worthiness.  That would simply invite cheating.
    EDIT: My initial post was about how many people being critical of DHH haven't bother to read what he actually said and I offered that fact that he has actually covered many of the criticisms that they are bring up as evidence. What is particularly funny is he is also discouraging people from drawing conclusions based on his anecdote and encouraging  them to look at people that are experts in finical lending are saying. He is literally saying he may be entirely wrong and shouldn't be seen as knowing what he is talking about and people want to argue it anyway. It's f-ing ridiculous and shame on Apple Insider for going for a clickbait headline and not covering the actual story. 
    So he claims not to be an expert and not to weight his anecdotal and possibly/likely ignorant opinion, yet he publishes it on his massive public platform anyway. Riiiight... Can you say, “backpedaling”?
    Yes, it isn't a particularly hard word to pronounce. Thanks for checking. 
    edited November 2019
  • Reply 93 of 142

    dee_dee said:
    anantksundaram said:

    I don’t — and I don’t care to — know who DHH is and whether he has a “trophy wife” who is, according to you, a “nothing (typical)” etc., but that has nothing to do with the point of the article. It is an Apple-branded card, and Apple can’t simply ignore the fallout that will result from this. It is already hitting the mainstream media in a big way, and I am guessing the publicity will grow.
    It has *everything* to do with the article.  It seems you are a bit slow to catch on so I'll explain it again for you again.  DHH is a millionaire, he has a wife, who makes nothing (typical).  If she wants to spend money (DHH's money) then she should ask him for an allowance of some sort, then everyone would be happy.
    I wish I could help you with basic comprehension, but life beckons...
  • Reply 94 of 142
    Soli said:
    dee_dee said:
    anantksundaram said:

    I don’t — and I don’t care to — know who DHH is and whether he has a “trophy wife” who is, according to you, a “nothing (typical)” etc., but that has nothing to do with the point of the article. It is an Apple-branded card, and Apple can’t simply ignore the fallout that will result from this. It is already hitting the mainstream media in a big way, and I am guessing the publicity will grow.
    It has *everything* to do with the article.  It seems you are a bit slow to catch on so I'll explain it again for you again.  DHH is a millionaire, he has a wife, who makes nothing (typical).  If she wants to spend money (DHH's money) then she should ask him for an allowance of some sort, then everyone would be happy.
    Why does this site draw in so many misogynists?
    ^^ I’ve wondered about this too. 
    SoliStrangeDays
  • Reply 95 of 142
    Ruby off the rails more like.

    My wife and I have been married for almost 20 years. We entered the exact same income information when we applied. I got a $10,000 limit, she got a $20,000 limit. I guess the only possible explanation is that they are biased against men.

    Seriously. Why the heck would a bank care what gender you are? That would just be throwing money away from their perspective. The only thing that matters is your loan history, not what kind of chromosomes you are sporting.
    StrangeDayscat52jdb8167randominternetpersonsarthos
  • Reply 96 of 142
    Soli said:
    dee_dee said:
    anantksundaram said:

    I don’t — and I don’t care to — know who DHH is and whether he has a “trophy wife” who is, according to you, a “nothing (typical)” etc., but that has nothing to do with the point of the article. It is an Apple-branded card, and Apple can’t simply ignore the fallout that will result from this. It is already hitting the mainstream media in a big way, and I am guessing the publicity will grow.
    It has *everything* to do with the article.  It seems you are a bit slow to catch on so I'll explain it again for you again.  DHH is a millionaire, he has a wife, who makes nothing (typical).  If she wants to spend money (DHH's money) then she should ask him for an allowance of some sort, then everyone would be happy.
    Why does this site draw in so many misogynists?
    ^^ I’ve wondered about this too. 
    It's pretty vile and even more so that it is considered acceptable.
  • Reply 97 of 142
    Fatman said:
    He can only make an argument if they are completely equal financially - working? salary? Credit rating history? Late payment history? Current balances/debt? Oldest account?  ... all based on algorithms for each individual. I’m sure they would love to extend her more credit if she qualifies and they can limit risk. If this dude didn’t look into all these things, he should be sued for libel.
    You’re crazy! He’s not going to be sued. 
  • Reply 98 of 142
    zoetmbzoetmb Posts: 2,634member
    larryjw said:
    The issue I raised to myself as I was requesting the Apple Card:

    First, don't know the information credit agencies get. I'm pretty sure they don't get any tax information, or have any idea of our net worth. I'm not sure they have access to investment accounts. 

    In any case, except for a few special accounts, my wife and I have joint accounts. 

    So, when credit worthiness is determined, they are determining that decision based on our joint financial interests. I got the Apple Card. 

    Now, if my wife requests the Apple Card, they cannot determine her credit worthiness independent from the determination of our credit worthiness when I signed up, otherwise they would be, in some sense, doubling the estimate of our credit worthiness. 

    Because the Apple Card account is not issued to spouses jointly, it makes sense that the first to get the Apple Card, gets the max, while the second spouse might get denied or a minimal limit. 

    The solution for Apple-GS is to tie both cards together into one account by default. 
    If you would look at your credit reports what you'll see is that it's mostly based on loans, debt and payment history, not on income or assets.  If the female spouse has credit cards in her own name, she's going to be judged on that.   If she has more credit cards than he does, that can negatively impact her score.   If she has a lesser credit history, that can negatively impact your score.   If she didn't pay the minimum payment on time each month, that affects your score.   Total balances affect your score.   The fact that they have joint bank accounts is not relevant.   What is relevant is whose names the credit cards and loans are in.

    The first thing this guy should have done was to check the credit score of himself and his wife.   If they're radically different, even for not good reasons and even for discriminatory reasons, that's the reason she got a lower credit card line on the Apple Card.    Also, there's frequently wrong information on credit reports.   I saw lots of bad info on mine - addresses I had never lived or decades old former addresses indicated as current,  credit cards I never had, etc. 

    And GS did check my credit report.  Whenever someone checks your credit report, it's reported in the credit report.   
    StrangeDays
  • Reply 99 of 142
    dysamoriadysamoria Posts: 3,430member
    The real takeaways here are that the credit system is voodoo, and there will never be any real accountability (nor any way for consumers to deal with the implications of unexpected scores) until the actual judgment processes/algorithms are regulated into being open and consistent. Maybe this supposition of sexism will help that... but probably not; we are ruled by corporations.

    And yes, your credit score may go down as a result of paying off a debt.
  • Reply 100 of 142

    DHH needs to state explicitly that his wife’s credit rating is similar to his own. Otherwise he’s wasting everyone’s time.


    You aren't the first person to imply that his wife's credit rating is the potential issue and I'll give you credit for doing so politely rather than some of the other folks on here that disparaged DHH and his wife in the process of suggesting this. The funny thing is, he did. It isn't mentioned in the Apple Insider article but in his twitter thread where he lays out his complaints he explicitly states that her score his higher than his. Further he calls out that they checked via Transunion which is who GS uses for Apple Card. 

    It's really entertaining how many people in these comments are calling him an idiot and or saying he doesn't know what he is talking about but haven't bothered to go look at what he has actually said. Most of the types of comments made here he has actually addressed. 

    The irony of people talking smack about the guy for not knowing something while at the same time proving they really haven't bothered to educate themselves on situation is pretty rich. 

    The crux of the issue is that nobody knows how GS makes a decision on card approval, credit limit and interest rate. If you contact GS Apple Card support and ask what factors they consider they don't know and just tell you the decision is made on the persons "credit worthiness". Anyone that thinks it is simply income + credit score is incorrect. My spouse and I both applied. We both used our combined income as our income (per the directions when applying) with both have credit scores in the 800s with mine being a few points higher. They got double the credit limit I did and their interest rate is lowest possible while mine is in the middle. So, trying to simplify it to income and credit score is misguided at best. 

    I am not saying DHH's claim that the algorithm is sexist is correct, I do agree with him that GS should be open about what factors are being considered for issue a card. There are clearly a series of inputs they are using and once your interest rate and credit limit are set they won't entertain changing them (I have tried) and they won't tell you why they made the decision. There is no harm in being transparent so people can ensure their "inputs" are in order prior to applying for a card and it would live up to the pro-consumer brand Apple and GS are trying to get. 

    So, despite your qualifier, it appears that you take his word for everything?
    The fact remains:  What would GS have to gain by discriminating against somebody with top flight credit?  GS is after money and profit.  They have zero incentive to not only discriminate but (likely) break the law.

    I'll go with GS on this one.   And, no, they do not have ANY obligation to expose their algorithms for determining credit worthiness.  That would simply invite cheating.
    EDIT: My initial post was about how many people being critical of DHH haven't bother to read what he actually said and I offered that fact that he has actually covered many of the criticisms that they are bring up as evidence. What is particularly funny is he is also discouraging people from drawing conclusions based on his anecdote and encouraging  them to look at people that are experts in finical lending are saying. He is literally saying he may be entirely wrong and shouldn't be seen as knowing what he is talking about and people want to argue it anyway. It's f-ing ridiculous and shame on Apple Insider for going for a clickbait headline and not covering the actual story. 
    First he makes this absolute conclusion:

    “The @AppleCard is such a fucking sexist program“

    ...then he claims not to be an expert and not to weight his anecdotal and possibly/likely ignorant opinion, which he published it on his massive public platform, despite now saying he may be entirely wrong. Can you say, “backpedaling”?

    And you say he’s the reasonable one? Riiiight...
    So, I responded to this before you edited it to make it more antagonistic and to mischaracterized what I said. It’s clear you just want a fight and have zero interest in discourse. I’m not going to oblige you but it’s Apple Insider and I’m sure someone will. Cheers. 
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