Note the slight differences between the 3400 and 5300 - they are very slight. The lower case is essentially the same, except the 5300 is just stubbier and it has a smaller screen. I have seen both in person, and the 3400 is definitely larger, but you can tell that they're based on the same design. One thing that adds to the 3400's bulk is the in-screen speakers. There are speakers in the back on the screen that make it bulge out.
Also, the 68040-powered PowerBook 190 and the 603e-powered PowerBook 5300 used the same case. Then you have the 3400c and the Kanga, which used a slight modification of the 190/5300 case. One could say that the same design carried over all the way from a 68040 machine to a G3 machine.
Note that the 1400's case is different from any of the others. It was nicer, more compact, and it had a really good keyboard (I used to own one). Despite having an 11.3" screen vs. a 12", it seems significantly smaller and sharper.
The entire Duo series used the exact same case, all the way from the Duo 210 (25 MHz 68030, grayscale) through the 2300c (100 MHz 603e, active matrix color).
The "new" Apple has also kept case designs the same even when upgrading the processor, at least when they went from the blue G3 to the PowerMac G4. The color changed but it was the same case.
Overall, I think Apple just changes the case every few years, and they change the processor every few years, and it's usually a good idea to change them at the same time for added effect. Since Jobs came along, it's much more that way - he's been really increasing Apple's publicity. I mean, look at this... people are arguing that the Kanga never even existed, and it's most likely because it was such a quiet upgrade (despite involving a whole new processor). But everyone remembers the Wallstreet.
Compare to the Pismo to Titanium upgrade. Almost nothing changed, other than the screen, case, and processor. The hard drives remained the same, base RAM remained the same, processor speed stayed... but it was still a big update because of the new case AND new processor at the same time.
EDIT: IMHO, there won't be a 970 PowerBook before a 970 PowerMac. It's just wishful thinking.
Thanks Bruno, I think that's still the case - otherwise, as you indicate, we'd be seeing 1.2/1.4GHz chips in PowerBooks.
From the size of the heatsink in the dual-1.42 towers, I doubt we'll be seeing THAT particular chip in a laptop any time soon, unless Apple plans to return to the days of the 16-pound Macintosh Portable.
This also makes me wonder if chip availability is why we haven't seen an update to the 15-inch PowerBook. Maybe Apple didn't want to overhaul everything just to ship it at the same speed at the old model. At least in recent memory, I can't recall a new model that shipped with the same CPU as the old, even if the bump was only slight (like the iBooks going from 466 to 500MHz). If Moto isn't shipping any low-power chips beyond 1GHz, we may not see a revision to the Ti for a while. (Which is a drag only because I'm ready to buy.)
The determining factor for 970s in a powerbook is heat and power usage. If power and heat are an issue, I'd say that Apple should use the slowest 970, and underclock it. Even at 1ghz, the 970 still smokes a G4.
That's ridiculous. the 17inch is here to stay. If the 15inch goes 970, then the 17inch will as well, or it will be reduced in price dramatically until a 970 17inch is introduced.
I agree - discontinue the 17inch and make way for a killer 15 inch...
Heck, a higher resolution 15" would seem more practical to me... it would be nice to have the smaller form factor, but with a comparable resolution. I've been using SXGA+ (1400x1050) 15" displays on my last two notebooks (both Dell Inspirons) and really think OSX could shine on a 15" wsxga screen. My next notebook will probably be a powerbook, and I'd like to get a 15, but I would probably end up getting the 17 if for nothing else but more screen real estate. I'd pay just as much for a 15 with the same power and resolution as a 17.
Oh man, don't bring up screen resolution around kittylitter!
I don't think Apple will make a significant change in resolution to any of their models. They usually make small changes and they try to be consistent throughout their lineup.
Overall, I think Apple just changes the case every few years, and they change the processor every few years, and it's usually a good idea to change them at the same time for added effect. Since Jobs came along, it's much more that way - he's been really increasing Apple's publicity. I mean, look at this... people are arguing that the Kanga never even existed, and it's most likely because it was such a quiet upgrade (despite involving a whole new processor). But everyone remembers the Wallstreet.
...
obvious college doesn't make you that stupid...
i wish i could have said it that way, but my argumentation in english just sucks
Quote:
Compare to the Pismo to Titanium upgrade. Almost nothing changed, other than the screen, case, and processor. The hard drives remained the same, base RAM remained the same, processor speed stayed... but it was still a big update because of the new case AND new processor at the same time.
that's why i absolutly didn't like the titanium: nothing chainged but the processor and it's shell. back at mwsf 2000, i even thought that the pismo was ment to be the first powerbook G4 but because of the G4 debacle it was delaid at the last moment and introduced in tokio with a G3. (i actually had no problem with the G3 processor what so ever, i had a real problem with the 2 months delay )
Quote:
EDIT: IMHO, there won't be a 970 PowerBook before a 970 PowerMac. It's just wishful thinking.
probally you're right, but maybe it is the "... oh, and one more thing...."
I agree - discontinue the 17inch and make way for a killer 15 inch...
The only reason Apple would kill their new baby is if it is a disaster of Cubic proportions. I've not heard of any bad news regarding sales of the 17".
First, there is no technical reason that a .13u 970 @1.0-1.2ghz can't be put into a laptop. The heat characteristics and power consumption are equal to or lower than the current .867-1ghz G4 used in the laptop line.
Second, IBM has proven that they will produce virtually anything for you as long as they stand to make a profit from it. They would have absolutely no problem with making low-voltage 1-1.2ghz 970's purely for Apple's consumption.
Thirdly, the recent release of Windows laptops using Pentium M processors has put the current Powerbook line at a distinct disadvantage, in computing power, heat characteristics, and battery consumption. Apple must keep their laptop line competitive since it's their only worthwhile product line at the moment.
Another plus of moving to the 970 asap is that iBooks will be able to use the 7447 G4's immediately when they become available, making the iBooks into extremely competitive budget laptops instead of sorta competitive like they are now. All these reasons combined point to the release of 970 Powerbooks sooner rather than later, as in as soon as 970's are available in quantity for Apple to use. It's just common sense.
Another plus of moving to the 970 asap is that iBooks will be able to use the 7447 G4's immediately when they become available, making the iBooks into extremely competitive budget laptops instead of sorta competitive like they are now. All these reasons combined point to the release of 970 Powerbooks sooner rather than later, as in as soon as 970's are available in quantity for Apple to use. It's just common sense.
Prediction: Apple will be using all IBM parts by year's end. The G3 Gobi should be on par with whatever Moto has at that time. No reason to be wading in the mud with a G4 Powerbook when you could be well off using a 970 Powerbook instead. Why is Apple holding off on the 15" PB redesign? Lots of stuff on the platter is my best guess. You can only redesign so much before it becomes a waste of time. Think of it this way - you have a really efficient, powerful V6 engine you are plopping in a particular model of car. Ok, now the masses want bigger and faster, and some want more efficient. Ala, the 12" and 17" Powerbooks. Give it to them. Apple does listen, despite what people may say. They are also aware of cost. Very aware. And that is why you will continue to see unified hardware across a line as much as possible. It makes no sense to have an odd-duck in the middle of a lineup, so I am wagering that Apple will be doing a 970 switch in all Powerbooks, eMacs, Powermacs and xServes by year end. As for the iBook - Gobi.
Despite the fact that the past shows that sticking with 1 processor manufacturer is a bad idea, at this point in time, I think it wise for Apple to bid farewell to Moto and go with a manufacturer with vision, money and balls to strike a deal with Apple. Let's face it - 3% market share is a lot of systems, but small in comparison to the other 97%. I think with Apple wanting to go dual, quad and higher with the xStations, that will be a bit more CPUs that IBM will sell them, than if they were a single CPU system designer.
First, there is no technical reason that a .13u 970 @1.0-1.2ghz can't be put into a laptop. The heat characteristics and power consumption are equal to or lower than the current .867-1ghz G4 used in the laptop line.
Second, IBM has proven that they will produce virtually anything for you as long as they stand to make a profit from it. They would have absolutely no problem with making low-voltage 1-1.2ghz 970's purely for Apple's consumption.
Thirdly, the recent release of Windows laptops using Pentium M processors has put the current Powerbook line at a distinct disadvantage, in computing power, heat characteristics, and battery consumption. Apple must keep their laptop line competitive since it's their only worthwhile product line at the moment.
Another plus of moving to the 970 asap is that iBooks will be able to use the 7447 G4's immediately when they become available, making the iBooks into extremely competitive budget laptops instead of sorta competitive like they are now. All these reasons combined point to the release of 970 Powerbooks sooner rather than later, as in as soon as 970's are available in quantity for Apple to use. It's just common sense.
Right, this is what I have been saying. The PowerBook needs an update. The 1Ghz G4 is about as fast as I think we are going to get with a .19µ chip. Since the .13µ 7457 is not coming out until next year, it is obvious that the PowerBook will get the 970 first. Just look toward the 1.42Ghz towers with those huge heat sinks!!!! Do you really think that the PowerBook is going to be able to go any faster on a G4???? I believe that the .13µ 970 will not use anymore power than a similarly clocked G4 and most likely it will use less power.
I think people are so stuck in the past, back when the original G4 powerbook took so long to come out, so people believe it will take a long time again. The only problem is that this is a completely different situation. Plus, I am going to buy the next PowerBook that comes out, and I am hoping it is a 970!
[Shameless TiBook Plug] Gazing upon my beautiful TiBook, lit in the glow of the one soft incandescent light in my dorm, with its unbelievably thin screen, stylish translucent keyboard (the last with the classic professional printing; none of that kiddish font), and sleek metallic finish, I just can't help but be sad that it may be supplanted by a boring aluminum design. I saw a 12" in person the other day for the first time; it didn't strike me as being as beautiful; just felt cold.
Wouldn't it be funny to see the 970 debut in the old Titanium case --- hahahahahah!
Wow, what just came over me? I just think my TiBook's so purrty; it's not going anywhere, even if the 970 rolls around. Meaning, that it won't be e-bayed to support a 970 PB, I'll just save like the dickens to have both in my name!! TiBook's got class.
[Shameless TiBook Plug] Gazing upon my beautiful TiBook, lit in the glow of the one soft incandescent light in my dorm, with its unbelievably thin screen, stylish translucent keyboard (the last with the classic professional printing; none of that kiddish font), and sleek metallic finish, I just can't help but be sad that it may be supplanted by a boring aluminum design. I saw a 12" in person the other day for the first time; it didn't strike me as being as beautiful; just felt cold.
Wouldn't it be funny to see the 970 debut in the old Titanium case --- hahahahahah!
Wow, what just came over me? I just think my TiBook's so purrty; it's not going anywhere, even if the 970 rolls around. Meaning, that it won't be e-bayed to support a 970 PB, I'll just save like the dickens to have both in my name!! TiBook's got class.
Man, I know exactly how you feel. Was thinking the same only yesterday. The Alubooks just dont have the same depth and detail. The 'Gestalt' just isnt there for me. Ti books are elegant.
I wonder if the next rev of the 15-in will keep the Titanium design but acquire all the new features the aluminum has (i.e.: airport extreme, firewire 800, etc.)?
Comments
Now a PowerBook 5300:
And the 1400:
Now the 603e-powered Duo 2300c:
Note the slight differences between the 3400 and 5300 - they are very slight. The lower case is essentially the same, except the 5300 is just stubbier and it has a smaller screen. I have seen both in person, and the 3400 is definitely larger, but you can tell that they're based on the same design. One thing that adds to the 3400's bulk is the in-screen speakers. There are speakers in the back on the screen that make it bulge out.
Also, the 68040-powered PowerBook 190 and the 603e-powered PowerBook 5300 used the same case. Then you have the 3400c and the Kanga, which used a slight modification of the 190/5300 case. One could say that the same design carried over all the way from a 68040 machine to a G3 machine.
Note that the 1400's case is different from any of the others. It was nicer, more compact, and it had a really good keyboard (I used to own one). Despite having an 11.3" screen vs. a 12", it seems significantly smaller and sharper.
The entire Duo series used the exact same case, all the way from the Duo 210 (25 MHz 68030, grayscale) through the 2300c (100 MHz 603e, active matrix color).
The "new" Apple has also kept case designs the same even when upgrading the processor, at least when they went from the blue G3 to the PowerMac G4. The color changed but it was the same case.
Overall, I think Apple just changes the case every few years, and they change the processor every few years, and it's usually a good idea to change them at the same time for added effect. Since Jobs came along, it's much more that way - he's been really increasing Apple's publicity. I mean, look at this... people are arguing that the Kanga never even existed, and it's most likely because it was such a quiet upgrade (despite involving a whole new processor). But everyone remembers the Wallstreet.
Compare to the Pismo to Titanium upgrade. Almost nothing changed, other than the screen, case, and processor. The hard drives remained the same, base RAM remained the same, processor speed stayed... but it was still a big update because of the new case AND new processor at the same time.
EDIT: IMHO, there won't be a 970 PowerBook before a 970 PowerMac. It's just wishful thinking.
Originally posted by Clive
Thanks Bruno, I think that's still the case - otherwise, as you indicate, we'd be seeing 1.2/1.4GHz chips in PowerBooks.
From the size of the heatsink in the dual-1.42 towers, I doubt we'll be seeing THAT particular chip in a laptop any time soon, unless Apple plans to return to the days of the 16-pound Macintosh Portable.
This also makes me wonder if chip availability is why we haven't seen an update to the 15-inch PowerBook. Maybe Apple didn't want to overhaul everything just to ship it at the same speed at the old model. At least in recent memory, I can't recall a new model that shipped with the same CPU as the old, even if the bump was only slight (like the iBooks going from 466 to 500MHz). If Moto isn't shipping any low-power chips beyond 1GHz, we may not see a revision to the Ti for a while. (Which is a drag only because I'm ready to buy.)
No one would buy the 17" PowerBook if the 15" was more powerful and cheaper.
Then it should be discontinued.
Originally posted by kittylitterdesign
I agree - discontinue the 17inch and make way for a killer 15 inch...
Heck, a higher resolution 15" would seem more practical to me... it would be nice to have the smaller form factor, but with a comparable resolution. I've been using SXGA+ (1400x1050) 15" displays on my last two notebooks (both Dell Inspirons) and really think OSX could shine on a 15" wsxga screen. My next notebook will probably be a powerbook, and I'd like to get a 15, but I would probably end up getting the 17 if for nothing else but more screen real estate. I'd pay just as much for a 15 with the same power and resolution as a 17.
-Leigh
I don't think Apple will make a significant change in resolution to any of their models. They usually make small changes and they try to be consistent throughout their lineup.
[B]That's ridiculous. the 17inch is here to stay.
Sure, but Apple's most important Powerbook is the 15 inch.
Originally posted by Luca Rescigno
...
Overall, I think Apple just changes the case every few years, and they change the processor every few years, and it's usually a good idea to change them at the same time for added effect. Since Jobs came along, it's much more that way - he's been really increasing Apple's publicity. I mean, look at this... people are arguing that the Kanga never even existed, and it's most likely because it was such a quiet upgrade (despite involving a whole new processor). But everyone remembers the Wallstreet.
...
obvious college doesn't make you that stupid...
i wish i could have said it that way, but my argumentation in english just sucks
Compare to the Pismo to Titanium upgrade. Almost nothing changed, other than the screen, case, and processor. The hard drives remained the same, base RAM remained the same, processor speed stayed... but it was still a big update because of the new case AND new processor at the same time.
that's why i absolutly didn't like the titanium: nothing chainged but the processor and it's shell. back at mwsf 2000, i even thought that the pismo was ment to be the first powerbook G4 but because of the G4 debacle it was delaid at the last moment and introduced in tokio with a G3. (i actually had no problem with the G3 processor what so ever, i had a real problem with the 2 months delay
EDIT: IMHO, there won't be a 970 PowerBook before a 970 PowerMac. It's just wishful thinking.
probally you're right, but maybe it is the "... oh, and one more thing...."
Originally posted by kittylitterdesign
I agree - discontinue the 17inch and make way for a killer 15 inch...
The only reason Apple would kill their new baby is if it is a disaster of Cubic proportions. I've not heard of any bad news regarding sales of the 17".
First, there is no technical reason that a .13u 970 @1.0-1.2ghz can't be put into a laptop. The heat characteristics and power consumption are equal to or lower than the current .867-1ghz G4 used in the laptop line.
Second, IBM has proven that they will produce virtually anything for you as long as they stand to make a profit from it. They would have absolutely no problem with making low-voltage 1-1.2ghz 970's purely for Apple's consumption.
Thirdly, the recent release of Windows laptops using Pentium M processors has put the current Powerbook line at a distinct disadvantage, in computing power, heat characteristics, and battery consumption. Apple must keep their laptop line competitive since it's their only worthwhile product line at the moment.
Another plus of moving to the 970 asap is that iBooks will be able to use the 7447 G4's immediately when they become available, making the iBooks into extremely competitive budget laptops instead of sorta competitive like they are now. All these reasons combined point to the release of 970 Powerbooks sooner rather than later, as in as soon as 970's are available in quantity for Apple to use. It's just common sense.
Originally posted by hotboxd
Another plus of moving to the 970 asap is that iBooks will be able to use the 7447 G4's immediately when they become available, making the iBooks into extremely competitive budget laptops instead of sorta competitive like they are now. All these reasons combined point to the release of 970 Powerbooks sooner rather than later, as in as soon as 970's are available in quantity for Apple to use. It's just common sense.
Prediction: Apple will be using all IBM parts by year's end. The G3 Gobi should be on par with whatever Moto has at that time. No reason to be wading in the mud with a G4 Powerbook when you could be well off using a 970 Powerbook instead. Why is Apple holding off on the 15" PB redesign? Lots of stuff on the platter is my best guess. You can only redesign so much before it becomes a waste of time. Think of it this way - you have a really efficient, powerful V6 engine you are plopping in a particular model of car. Ok, now the masses want bigger and faster, and some want more efficient. Ala, the 12" and 17" Powerbooks. Give it to them. Apple does listen, despite what people may say. They are also aware of cost. Very aware. And that is why you will continue to see unified hardware across a line as much as possible. It makes no sense to have an odd-duck in the middle of a lineup, so I am wagering that Apple will be doing a 970 switch in all Powerbooks, eMacs, Powermacs and xServes by year end. As for the iBook - Gobi.
Despite the fact that the past shows that sticking with 1 processor manufacturer is a bad idea, at this point in time, I think it wise for Apple to bid farewell to Moto and go with a manufacturer with vision, money and balls to strike a deal with Apple. Let's face it - 3% market share is a lot of systems, but small in comparison to the other 97%. I think with Apple wanting to go dual, quad and higher with the xStations, that will be a bit more CPUs that IBM will sell them, than if they were a single CPU system designer.
Originally posted by hotboxd
Some things have been established already.
First, there is no technical reason that a .13u 970 @1.0-1.2ghz can't be put into a laptop. The heat characteristics and power consumption are equal to or lower than the current .867-1ghz G4 used in the laptop line.
Second, IBM has proven that they will produce virtually anything for you as long as they stand to make a profit from it. They would have absolutely no problem with making low-voltage 1-1.2ghz 970's purely for Apple's consumption.
Thirdly, the recent release of Windows laptops using Pentium M processors has put the current Powerbook line at a distinct disadvantage, in computing power, heat characteristics, and battery consumption. Apple must keep their laptop line competitive since it's their only worthwhile product line at the moment.
Another plus of moving to the 970 asap is that iBooks will be able to use the 7447 G4's immediately when they become available, making the iBooks into extremely competitive budget laptops instead of sorta competitive like they are now. All these reasons combined point to the release of 970 Powerbooks sooner rather than later, as in as soon as 970's are available in quantity for Apple to use. It's just common sense.
Right, this is what I have been saying. The PowerBook needs an update. The 1Ghz G4 is about as fast as I think we are going to get with a .19µ chip. Since the .13µ 7457 is not coming out until next year, it is obvious that the PowerBook will get the 970 first. Just look toward the 1.42Ghz towers with those huge heat sinks!!!! Do you really think that the PowerBook is going to be able to go any faster on a G4???? I believe that the .13µ 970 will not use anymore power than a similarly clocked G4 and most likely it will use less power.
I think people are so stuck in the past, back when the original G4 powerbook took so long to come out, so people believe it will take a long time again. The only problem is that this is a completely different situation.
Wouldn't it be funny to see the 970 debut in the old Titanium case --- hahahahahah!
Wow, what just came over me? I just think my TiBook's so purrty; it's not going anywhere, even if the 970 rolls around. Meaning, that it won't be e-bayed to support a 970 PB, I'll just save like the dickens to have both in my name!! TiBook's got class.
Originally posted by hengx
Then it should be discontinued.
No, the 17" will be cheaper than the 15" - if, and big if, the 970 goes in it before the 17".
They aren't going to dicontinue something they only just released. But then I don't think you're going to see a 970 PB this year anyway.
Originally posted by fred_lj
[Shameless TiBook Plug] Gazing upon my beautiful TiBook, lit in the glow of the one soft incandescent light in my dorm, with its unbelievably thin screen, stylish translucent keyboard (the last with the classic professional printing; none of that kiddish font), and sleek metallic finish, I just can't help but be sad that it may be supplanted by a boring aluminum design. I saw a 12" in person the other day for the first time; it didn't strike me as being as beautiful; just felt cold.
Wouldn't it be funny to see the 970 debut in the old Titanium case --- hahahahahah!
Wow, what just came over me? I just think my TiBook's so purrty; it's not going anywhere, even if the 970 rolls around. Meaning, that it won't be e-bayed to support a 970 PB, I'll just save like the dickens to have both in my name!! TiBook's got class.
Man, I know exactly how you feel. Was thinking the same only yesterday. The Alubooks just dont have the same depth and detail. The 'Gestalt' just isnt there for me. Ti books are elegant.