Apple Tablet PC

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  • Reply 41 of 170
    kickahakickaha Posts: 8,760member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by ArticulatedArm

    So what do you think the next major innovation will be?



    I like how you just dodged that. Ha!








    Nope, no dodge at all. I'm surprised that's as far as your imagination takes you is all.







    Quote:

    Sure... other products can be refined... but these are the only personal computing form factors that are left to be radically redefined for the foreseeable future.



    You really need to read more sci-fi.



    Quote:

    The iPod wasn't much different than other Mp3's it was just elegant. And it was very expensive.



    I'm sorry, did you just say 'not that much different'?



    Storage.



    Sync Speed.



    Software UI.



    Hardware UI.



    Sync w/ robust app w/ fast search.



    You're absolutely right, every other MP3 player had those. What *was* I thinking?



    Quote:

    Have they? Where is your data to support this statement?







    Seen the tablet sales recently? They make the Mac market look positively *robust*.



    Quote:

    That is way over simplifying. But essentially it is true. People underestimate how important design is. Apple is the best design company in the business. Far and away.



    That was the biggest part of the iPods success -- the design. And a very simplified UI. This is excatly what the Tablet needs and this is exactly what Apple can provide.








    But the design wouldn't have mattered without the storage space or the sync speed. It took *ALL* of it to make the package work. Oh, but I forgot... those were all run of the mill in MP3 players.



    Quote:

    It is very easy to say something is impossible without trying. What would ever get done in life with this attitude.



    A refined and cheap tablet is hardly impossible.




    Then build it.



    Seriously. Instead of putting all your faith in Apple, then complaining when they don't come through for you, show them the way. Simply put, if you know how it should be built, do it. Or at least articulate it here. All I'm hearing so far is that you want a tablet, but it's going to be Kewl because it's from Apple. Why? What will they bring to the table, that you can see as so simple, that makes your impatience rational and justified?



    Quote:

    We agree after all. Glad to see you finally come around!



    I think the difference between you and I is just that you are a pessimist... and I am an optimist.




    No, you're a loonie.
  • Reply 42 of 170
    banchobancho Posts: 1,517member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by monkeyastronaut

    Well hurry up then.







    As a student, a tablet would be great if it could replace notebooks and books. Note taking with good res, access to all your notes within single clicks, etc. Apple could get book publishers to release PDF (or some other format) versions of their books. After all, they convinced the major music labels to put their cds in digital format. So you could carry your heavy chemistry book, physics, art and calculus book in a light tablet. Plus your handwritten notes, and you would never have to throw them away or buy new paper notebooks. From a software standpoint, Apple could do a great job making this easy.



    This could be big in medical markets. Doctors could go from patient room to the next with a small tablet that displays clinic information of the patient, x-ray scans, clinic history, anything.



    Artists would love this. Using Illustrator with a tablet doesn't sound all that bad. I'm no artist and I don't know what advanced software could use a tablet, but I'm sure there are plenty of apps that would work nice.



    UPS guys could use tablets. With GPS and all if you wish.



    Heck, you could vote on those online polls right from your couch without having to leave the TV room.



    I don't know, I'm sure there are many other ways a tablet can be useful. It might not work for everything, but for certain markets it works. It would definitely be better than what's out there already since it would not be MS who's making the software.




    Tablets can be useful. I agree wholeheartedly. My problem is when people think of it as a general computing device for all their needs. They certainly aren't at the point where you could pick one up at the price of an iBook...yet.



    ps - GPS is being built right into a lot of delivery vehicles including garbage trucks rather than on portable devices because it helps when trucks get stolen (and they *do* get stolen)
  • Reply 43 of 170
    banchobancho Posts: 1,517member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by ArticulatedArm

    Do you disagree that a pen input is a more intuitive means of interfacing with your computer?



    It is a no-brainer imo.



    Sure... if you are typing some long document then the keyboard is superior.



    But for just about anything else a pen input or touchscreen seems superior to me.



    But the reality is that different means of input might be superior for different tasks.



    How can anyone say that this isn't something that at least needs to be explored for a long long time?




    I take classes at night and I find that my Powerbook works better for me than any tablet. With OmniOutliner and OmniGraffle I can whip together my notes in an organized and readable manner much better than I could by hand and I never have to rewrite the notes to be legible.



    I have used tablets. Apple can make a nicer interface and prettier hardware but in the end it will be great in only some instances. Freehand srawing is one instance where it would kick ass.



    Now the way to make it compelling? Wait for the technology to make one 1/2 inch thick and 8 1/2 x 11 and weigh about 1 - 2 pounds. Then it needs to be priced low, very low because the way it will be handled will cause a higher attrition rate than typical laptops.



    Also such a device would *have* to be priced and marketed as an accesory to a regular home computer because that would let it be used in situations where its strengths could shine and leave you to use the desktop for other tasks.
  • Reply 44 of 170
    Hey Kickaha, are you saying that Apple won't ever come out with a tablet style computer?



    And if you aren't saying that, then when do you feel one will come out?
  • Reply 45 of 170
    kickahakickaha Posts: 8,760member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by ArticulatedArm

    Do you disagree that a pen input is a more intuitive means of interfacing with your computer?



    It is a no-brainer imo.




    *arches eyebrow*



    Quote:

    Sure... if you are typing some long document then the keyboard is superior.



    Long document. Or program. Or mail. Or just about anything of any serious length over a page that requires text input - like, say, this post.



    Quote:

    But for just about anything else a pen input or touchscreen seems superior to me.



    Used one a lot then, I take it?



    Trust me, it's not. I've used a TabletPC. I've used Ink under MacOS X for several weeks while my arm was in a brace. I own, and still use, a Newton 2100. For anything more than the occasional text tidbit, it simply is a pain.



    Quote:

    But the reality is that different means of input might be superior for different tasks.



    Ah ah ah... but you said it was simply a superior input method. Choose your position. Is it simply superior, or is it simply superior for things that don't require long text entry? Because in my experience the latter set of tasks is pretty small, unless you're a graphics designer.



    Quote:

    How can anyone say that this isn't something that at least needs to be explored for a long long time?



    It has been.



    About 25 years worth, in CHI research, and 10 years in the marketplace.



    Newton, WinPad, Palm, GeOS, WinCE, Symbian, TabletPC... they've all come and crested. Handheld sales are declining, not accelerating. Tablet PCs have never sparked, and are languishing quickly.



    Do I think Apple *could* come up with a kickass tablet-esque device that used handwriting recognition as the primary but not only means of text input? You bet.



    Do I think the market would support it? Not unless it hit a new sweet-spot that *it defined*. Playing follow the leader to TabletPC is a dead-end. They've run that market into the ground and salted the earth behind them.



    My guess? An A5 aspect device (half the size of an 8.5x11 paper, roughly, slightly larger than a paperback) with a thin bezel, WiFi, Ethernet/modem and USB/FireWire connectors. No optical. *MAYBE* a PCCard. Maybe. 2cm thick. Keep it simple. A 120ppi display (1024x768) and standard MacOS X kernel, with a reduced driver set for efficiency (although it would only save disk space, easy enough to purge later). On boot, would look for host CPU over FireWire and kick into target disk mode if possible. Sync data between units on the fly, using MacOS X Server Backpack utility. This is not a desktop replacement, this is a Palm on steroids (ie, a Newton). It is not for massive data creation, it is for data *access* first and foremost, and creation secondary. In that case, the drawbacks of the pen (which are many) are reduced and minimized.



    See? Not hard. Your turn.
  • Reply 46 of 170
    kickahakickaha Posts: 8,760member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by ArticulatedArm

    Hey Kickaha, are you saying that Apple won't ever come out with a tablet style computer?



    And if you aren't saying that, then when do you feel one will come out?




    I never said they would never come out with one.



    And I have no idea when they might, any more than you do.



    What I said was that whining that they *haven't* come out with one, to your satisfaction, is inane when the very people complaining can't articulate what the heck it is they even want... but gee, they know Apple will whip up something 'really good', and obviously they haven't released this magical product because they're big meanies.



    Or something. It's all very unclear and inarticulate.
  • Reply 47 of 170
    You forgot to mention when one would come out... if ever.



    And for someone that claims I am switching sides on an argument you flip flop like a mackarel.



    Quote:

    quote:

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    But for just about anything else a pen input or touchscreen seems superior to me.

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------







    Used one a lot then, I take it?



    Yes... it is called a pencil and paper.



    I NEVER said that typing wasn't superior for specific applications. I simply said that pen input was superior because of its intuitiveness.



    I would like you to take the opposite end of that argument considering man has been using a stick to make their mental concepts physical for millenia.
  • Reply 48 of 170
    kickahakickaha Posts: 8,760member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by ArticulatedArm

    You forgot to mention when one would come out... if ever.



    Oh for god's sake. I refuse to answer your asinine question any further. I stated my opinion on that. Not my problem if you can't read. Christ.



    Quote:

    And for someone that claims I am switching sides on an argument you flip flop like a mackarel.



    Blah blah blah.







    Quote:

    Yes... it is called a pencil and paper.



    ...



    I give up. This isn't worth anyone's time.
  • Reply 49 of 170
    Quote:

    I never said they would never come out with one.



    what are you saying then?



    Quote:

    And I have no idea when they might, any more than you do.



    What? When did I say I knew when they were coming out. You are the one acting if it some impossible task. Now you are backing off that stance.



    Quote:

    What I said was that whining that they *haven't* come out with one, to your satisfaction, is inane when the very people complaining can't articulate what the heck it is they even want...



    So you are whining about people whining? That makes a lot of sense.



    No one even asked me what I wanted in a tablet. I would be happy to tell you but it will take awhile.





    Quote:

    but gee, they know Apple will whip up something 'really good', and obviously they haven't released this magical product because they're big meanies.



    Who said that?



    Quote:

    Or something. It's all very unclear and inarticulate.



    I didn't really realize someone could be so clueless to the benefits of pen input...



    If there are many other people that don't see the potential in this type of system I could spend some serious time and ullustrate all these benefits. And show examples of when they would be useful.



    Maybe we should make a thread where everyone can tell all the uses they would have for this type of system.



    That might help people such as yourself with limited imaginations.
  • Reply 50 of 170
    kickahakickaha Posts: 8,760member
    Oh for god's sake. You can't even argue intelligently, much less read for simple comprehension.



    Someone please lock this worthless thread.
  • Reply 51 of 170
    You are the one that is making this argument heated... "Loonie".



    Quote:

    Oh for god's sake. You can't even argue intelligently, much less read for simple comprehension.



    Someone please lock this worthless thread.



    Have you picked a side of the argument yet? Or are you going to argue both sides? Why don't you go argue with yourself. lol
  • Reply 52 of 170
    davegeedavegee Posts: 2,765member
    Hey - I'm all for an EVENTUAL Apple Tablet (as a Trekkie how could I not be) - But lets talk simple component cost alone... Price out a "GOOD QUALITY" 10" LCD Touch Screen - add that cost to the cost of say an iBook. Subtract $250 for the cost of the existing LCD screen. (maybe that's too much to subtract but do it anyway)



    Tell us what the final cost is... and then tell me who'd be willing to pay that much.



    Someone should be able to dig up the 10k unit pricing of a 10" Touch Screen (and remember GOOD quality - Apple doesn't use crap)



    Dave
  • Reply 53 of 170
    rhumgodrhumgod Posts: 1,289member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Kickaha

    Oh for god's sake. You can't even argue intelligently, much less read for simple comprehension.



    Someone please lock this worthless thread.




    You aren't a really fast typing moderator?



    Heretic!



    Yeah, this thread seems to have grown into a name-calling, b!tch-slap fest. So sad.
  • Reply 54 of 170
    Yeah, I vote for a group hug. 8)
  • Reply 55 of 170
    kickahakickaha Posts: 8,760member
    We handled it in PMs. Nothing to see here, citizens, move along.



    *hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuggggggggggggg*



    I feel so snuggly now.
  • Reply 56 of 170
    dgnr8dgnr8 Posts: 196member
    When I first posted this thread I was just excited at the posibilites of a tablet. The reason being was a laptop is sometimes a bit to cumbersom to trouble shoot hardware problems in warehouse enviroments, and a palm just does not have the power I need sometimes. That is why I like the tablet idea.



    I know MS based tablets are out there and I have used them. But going back to windows is un-exceptable to me.



    In earlier replys I noticed some had brought up the idea of tablet being a extension of a desktop or laptop. I think that is the key that people like me are looking for. Not looking for tablet with tons of extras like tons of firewire ports or a superdrive. Just the abilty to bring an extension of desktop with you on the road weather it be buisness or pleasure to do little simple task that require pc power not palm power. Any one needing to design or type exstensive documents I think would be better suited on a desktop then anything else, and only in my opinoin that includes a laptop. I know laptops are wonderful but I and this is only what I think, laptop keyboards are less than to desired. I have a 12" powerbook and I love it, but when given the chance I use the G5PM anyday.



    I belive that a tablet is just that a tablet. I shouldn't really be a monster in a tablet form factor. For that reason I think there is a big market out there for a tablet. what all aspects I dont know, I not in marketing, I not a product designer, I am user and my friends are users. Many times we all have said something like this would have been a perfect solution for the problem at hand.



    I shut up, but that is the reason I was excited about the possibility.



    DGNR8
  • Reply 57 of 170
    buonrottobuonrotto Posts: 6,368member
    <peeks head in door>



    Can I come in?



    <walks in on tippy toes>



    I see one major issue with pen input I think people are taking for granted: pen input. That is, people are convinced that a pen/stylus and writing by hand is a faster, more intuitive and more efficient method of giving data and feedback to the computer. I would say that is true if you are writing only. It might be true if you are painting/drawing. But I don't think we can make this assumption when you're doing other kinds of work. Not that you couldn't make it work, but you start to get into tapping, double-tapping, gestures, light pressure versus hard pressure, and maybe even buttons on the stylus, all in ways that are unconventional to old fashioned hand writing. So then you're at the same place more or less as you are with a mouse, though potentially with more precision (not necessarily for that if you've ever used those little stylus pads at checkout). I think there's a law of diminishing returns with pen input once you start to deal with more advanced tools or ones that have developed from typing or computing environments. The idea of using a pen in Excel actually sounds like a nuissance. How and how well would Shaek or Logic handle it?



    Honestly, not to toot Kickaha's horn, but having input from your fingers along with a keyboard as the situation is appropriate sounds like it has a lot more flexibility and convenience to users than a needing a pen input and especially more than a pen-only input. You lose some precision, but you gain a better hybrid experience as the situation warrants.
  • Reply 58 of 170
    kickahakickaha Posts: 8,760member
    Oh toot! Toot! (He's talking about Facetop, a little side-project I'm on.)



    There's room for a flexible set of input methods, and no one single method works for everything. (Can you imagine trying to draw with keyboard commands? People used to. Some LaTeX users still do. It sucks.)



    I've used the best that handwriting recognition has to offer, commercially, (and also a TabletPC *rimshot*) and it is *WONDERFUL* for small text inputs and gesturing... but it absolutely bites for long documents. For firing off quick emails, sure. For writing the next great novel (or program), no thanks. It's simply too cumbersome.



    And before someone steps in and says "But pen and paper work great!"... try these systems out. They're almost nothing like pen and paper... except for the Newton, and even that wasn't perfect enough to be really *GOOD* at emulating the paper environment. Still had warts.



    I'd love it if Apple came out with the device I mentioned above - but that would require a redefinition of the marketspace. Luckily, they are pretty good at that. I expect we'll see something like that only when the various portable technologies (broadband wireless, OLED screens, battery life) become viable and cost-effective, and when MacOS X supports the type of infrastructure such a device would need. Obviously, with Tiger, it's heading in that direction.
  • Reply 59 of 170
    Sounds cool. Althugh apple was beaten to it. You know how apple prefers being coppied than copying. How will they fit a G5 in a tablet pc. This is apple, but still.
  • Reply 60 of 170
    mmmpiemmmpie Posts: 628member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Kickaha

    And before someone steps in and says "But pen and paper work great!"... try these systems out.



    And this is exactly why I think that trying to make a computer with a pen interface is going to fail.



    The interface that works is pen and paper, so make the pen and paper smart, so I everything I write and draw on it gets digitised to my computer.



    Its not a dynamic interface. It is the same static interface we have been using for a long time, but thats cool. I dont do 'real' work on paper, I use it to jot thoughts, and take notes, and draw sketches. Its a starting place, and having automatic transcription would be magic.
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