Yeah, well back in January the 733 G4 tower was the top of the line at $3499. 6 months later it was priced at $1699.
Times and technology change, and with G5s on the horizon, G4s will no doubt become less expensive, and 867 MHz will be considered VERY low end.
So many people are stuck in the mindset that Apple will adavance CPU speed at the same slow pace that it has in the past, but we are in for a pretty bug leap I think.
... the climax of metamorphosis into an adult can be viewed almost daily. Butterflies usually emerge from their chrysalises sometime between 9:30 a.m. and 11:30 a.m.
Here is a summary of what a CompUSA person told me would occur at the upcoming MWSF:
Less speculative:
1. G5 towers
2. G4, flat panel imacs
3. Dual 800 towers no longer available through stores like CompUSA
4. AMD manufacturer of G5 chip
More speculative:
1. G5 towers to 1.6 GHz
2. G5 laptop
This is the same guy who told me a couple of months ago about flat panel imacs.
I asked him how he knew about this sensitive info. He stated that they see Apple reps all the time, and they pump each one for info. It only takes a single "weak link" to "spill the beans".
Personally, I'm curious to see if he really does have some inside info.
<strong>Here is a summary of what a CompUSA person told me would occur at the upcoming MWSF:
Less speculative:
1. G5 towers
2. G4, flat panel imacs
3. Dual 800 towers no longer available through stores like CompUSA
4. AMD manufacturer of G5 chip
More speculative:
1. G5 towers to 1.6 GHz
2. G5 laptop
This is the same guy who told me a couple of months ago about flat panel imacs.
I asked him how he knew about this sensitive info. He stated that they see Apple reps all the time, and they pump each one for info. It only takes a single "weak link" to "spill the beans".
Personally, I'm curious to see if he really does have some inside info.</strong><hr></blockquote>
The prediction about not selling dual 800 setups at CompUSA et al. It makes more sense if it is interpreted to mean that there will not be MP configurations at your typical retail stores.
Whatever Apple has now (haven't checked recently but I think it's a nVidia GeForce 2)
Combo drive
$1599
Very Fast
1.0GHz G4
80gig HD ATA 100
512 DDR RAM
ATi Radeon 8500
Combo drive with Superdrive as BTO option
$1899, 1999 Combo, SuperDrive respectively
Faster
1.13 GHz G4
100gig HD ATA 100
768 DDR RAM
GeForce 3
SuperDrive
$2499
Fastest
1.3GHz G4
1 GB DDR RAM
100Gig HD ATA 100
GeForce 3
Superdrive
$2999
Ultimate
DP 1.3
1.5 GB DDR RAM
1x100gig HD + 1x30gig HD ATA 100
GeForce 3
Superdrive mandatory, like combo drive on current PBG4
$3499
New Severs w/speed bumps to the old kind
All rackmounted with quicksilver-LIKE enclosure, still usable with normal racks
Same speeds and HD configurations as above
Low-end - high end
933 - 1.3 DP M/GHz
1.5 - 3gig DDR RAM
GeForce 2 (Do you really need anything else)
CD-RW drive
OS X Server
built in 5" TFT Display for monitoring
$2499-$4499
Software
iMovie 3
allows for 2nd video track, dozens of transitions, effects
iEdit
Photo editing software like Adobe PhotoDeluxe
"Something else insanely great coming soon" (ie. PhotoStudio Pro, at MWTokyo)
Announce Future planned uptdate to iTunes, to include easy to add (read: without ResEdit) skins
Preview of Photoshop X/7
Preview OS 9.3/5 and X.2/5
Spring-loaded folders
everything seen in the 10.2 Article
iBook
Upgrade cache to 512k
PowerBook
No changes
Monitors
Price reductions across the board
New 24" display requiring new ADC II graphics card ($100)
$2999
Other
iPod remote
$20 for current iPod owners, (S&H) free with new iPods
"One Last Thing"
LCD iMac with same enclosure as current one, with a 15" TFT display and PCI (and maybe AGP) slots where the CRT was.
Fast
700Mhz G3 processor
128 RAM PCI 133
40gig HD (7200 RPM, since there is more room for air circulation)
GeForce 2 or current Radeon
DVD or CD-RW drive, upgradable to Combo
$999, $1199 with combo
Faster
800MHz G3
256 RAM
40gig HD
GeForce 2
Combo Drive
$1399
Fastest
900Mhz G3
512 RAM
60gig HD
GeForce 3 or Radeon 8500
Combo Drive
$1599
Last but not least
New Apple Surround Sound wireless speakers
This one speaks for itself
$249
This plus all the usual "State-of-the-Mac" speeches, Photoshop shootouts, demonstrations, etc. should fill in the nice large time block. Personally, with exception of the G5 (which I thought was planned for this expo until the G4 rebate thing got extended a month), I think this is going to be the best event since the introduction of the iMac.
One thing we must realize is that Steve will put out the fastest chips possible. He knows that Apple screwed up the last MacWorld and that they must come in with some major announcements. The cases for the PM and the imac are still quite functional, but are dated compared to the rest of the line. The imac will be as amazing as you are expecting. A very small footprint and a very clean, polished look. The PM case should finally be all new to go along with the G5. Expect as considerable of a shrink in size as possible, while keeping the same expandability. The motherboard on QuickSilver is considerably smaller than the model it replaced as one can plainly see. QuickSilver was obviously a last minute back-up plan that only got some of what is coming in the true next-gen product that we will see at MacWorld. The speeds of the chips can in no way be judged by any rational means without info from IBM, MOT or Apple. However, some very revealing generalizations can be extracted from the persona of Steve Jobs. The alleged quote regarding his anger as he stepped off stage from MacWorld NY, in addition to his performance and mood on stage. And his recent quote regarding this MacWorld being the most exciting ever. There have been rumors of Apple perhaps shipping G5 machines at well over a Ghz. I don?t see this in any way to be overly optimistic when one considers that Apple has reportedly had a hand in developing it.
In my view, guesses should be justified in some way, otherwise how do they differ from the prognostic ranting of schizophrenics? On the other hand, I'm perplexed by those posters who do justify their predictions, but in an unrealistic way, by saying things like "Based on how long the G4 has been out, a G5 MUST appear," or "Apple MUST release a Power Mac faster than 1 GHz; otherwise they are ruined," or "Why does Apple hold back? Why don't they just release a Mac at 1 GHz? They must." But what if there is no over-1 GHz CPU available for Apple to use, or there is one but it dissipates 100 Watts, or costs $1,000? Apple can only sell what Motorola and IBM provide. Either there is no suitable faster-than-867 MHz chip for Apple to use (then they surely can't release a computer with one inside), or there IS such a chip (in which case you can be sure that they will use it). Some posters are requiring Apple to do the impossible, and for reasons that Apple as a successful business entity surely does not follow.
I have my own list of guesses as to what will be revealed in MWSF 2002, but I also give here my justifications for my educated guesses (or at least I give a URL to the place where a degree of justification will be found). First the guesses.
(b.) "Gigawire", which is either RapidIO (for connecting multiple CPUs), or 1600 MHz fibre-optic FireWire,
(c.) FireWire 2,
(d.) USB 2,
(e.) Bluetouth
-Prof-Desktop CONCEPT DEMO ("model coming later")
8500-G5
quad 2.8 GHz
Should reach equiv. SPEC2000 of 7600 (11 times a 2-GHz P4)
-Rack-mount server-Mac, U1 or U2 size
8500-G5
multi 0.8 GHz
(a.) Headless, no video,
(b.) Controlled via AirPort and rlogin by an iBook,
(c.) RapidIO backplane for up to 32 CPU-cards in 1 box, big powersupply, big fan,
(d.) Cheap but powerful, an Itanium killer.
The principle followed in my guesses:
I have no "inside information", but Apple will use in 2002 starting in January or February, whichever advanced PPC CPUs are available in sufficient quantities and whichever are suitable, given the constraints of price and heat-dissipation, for a given model. So what one needs to know in order to make an informed guess, is what PPC chips will be available in Jan. 2002 for Apple to choose from; here my chart (URL below) is serviceable. This chart was the basis for my choice of Apollo, Sahara, and G5 in Apple's January 2002 machines -- "Intel Designs vs the PowerPC Family":
Regarding the seemingly fantastical idea of a quad 2.8-GHz G5 demo-model being possible today, consider this: apparently a very small percentage of chips on Motorola's G5 wafers test good at 2.8 GHz; why not use them for something, even when the mem bus and other system components would not to able to show off the quad-G5 setup to its best advantage, and the insufficient yields prohibit their being the basis of a product at this time?
Comments
Times and technology change, and with G5s on the horizon, G4s will no doubt become less expensive, and 867 MHz will be considered VERY low end.
So many people are stuck in the mindset that Apple will adavance CPU speed at the same slow pace that it has in the past, but we are in for a pretty bug leap I think.
Just release those G5s at slightly lower clock speeds. They'll still smack the Apollo.
Alliance with Sun
OS X ported to SPARC
Alliance with IBM
Apple buys rights to G3/G4/G5/G6 and Motorola's CPU chip fabrication plants
Home entertainment server with cable modem/cable SD/HD TV
30/42/60" LCD HD screens
Distribution to home/portable information/entertainment modules
Remote computing/entertainment
Apple will aim to centralize all home information and entertainment technologies into one system
[ 12-27-2001: Message edited by: shawk ]</p>
1.1Ghz/256MB DDR/80GB/Superdrive/Same video/$2499
Dual 966Mhz/256MB DDR/100GB/Superdrive/Same video/$3099<hr></blockquote>
Apple MUST get away from the Dual's only on the high-end machine, especially with OSX becoming more mainstream.
The 466, 533, 667 and 733 lineup with the dual 533 in there was the best Powermac lineup Apple ever had in my opinion.
[ 12-27-2001: Message edited by: Bodhi ]</p>
<strong>Alliance with IBM
Apple buys rights to G3/G4/G5/G6 and Motorola's CPU chip fabrication plants
</strong><hr></blockquote>
Apple would never buy those plants, they'd just do the same thing that Moto is supposedly doing now - outsource the fab process.
powermac line
appartion of the appolo G4 on a 133 mhz mobo with FW 2 and ata 100 interface (nothing more unfortunately)
single 933 mhz : 256 mb
single 1,13 ghz : 256 mb
dual 1 ghz : 512 mb ram
video geforce 4 mx.
I mac line : all ibm chips code name sahara aka 750 FX 800 mhz
just variations of the HD and the amount of ram and the type of CD reader.
100 mhz speed bump for the i book .
for the ti book : 133 mhz speed bump: all with 133 mhz mobo (667 mhz and 800 mhz).
... the climax of metamorphosis into an adult can be viewed almost daily. Butterflies usually emerge from their chrysalises sometime between 9:30 a.m. and 11:30 a.m.
Maybe earlier...
Less speculative:
1. G5 towers
2. G4, flat panel imacs
3. Dual 800 towers no longer available through stores like CompUSA
4. AMD manufacturer of G5 chip
More speculative:
1. G5 towers to 1.6 GHz
2. G5 laptop
This is the same guy who told me a couple of months ago about flat panel imacs.
I asked him how he knew about this sensitive info. He stated that they see Apple reps all the time, and they pump each one for info. It only takes a single "weak link" to "spill the beans".
Personally, I'm curious to see if he really does have some inside info.
<strong>Here is a summary of what a CompUSA person told me would occur at the upcoming MWSF:
Less speculative:
1. G5 towers
2. G4, flat panel imacs
3. Dual 800 towers no longer available through stores like CompUSA
4. AMD manufacturer of G5 chip
More speculative:
1. G5 towers to 1.6 GHz
2. G5 laptop
This is the same guy who told me a couple of months ago about flat panel imacs.
I asked him how he knew about this sensitive info. He stated that they see Apple reps all the time, and they pump each one for info. It only takes a single "weak link" to "spill the beans".
Personally, I'm curious to see if he really does have some inside info.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Base model (Fast) and standards
933MHz G4
60gig HD ATA 100
384 DDR RAM
Whatever Apple has now (haven't checked recently but I think it's a nVidia GeForce 2)
Combo drive
$1599
Very Fast
1.0GHz G4
80gig HD ATA 100
512 DDR RAM
ATi Radeon 8500
Combo drive with Superdrive as BTO option
$1899, 1999 Combo, SuperDrive respectively
Faster
1.13 GHz G4
100gig HD ATA 100
768 DDR RAM
GeForce 3
SuperDrive
$2499
Fastest
1.3GHz G4
1 GB DDR RAM
100Gig HD ATA 100
GeForce 3
Superdrive
$2999
Ultimate
DP 1.3
1.5 GB DDR RAM
1x100gig HD + 1x30gig HD ATA 100
GeForce 3
Superdrive mandatory, like combo drive on current PBG4
$3499
New Severs w/speed bumps to the old kind
All rackmounted with quicksilver-LIKE enclosure, still usable with normal racks
Same speeds and HD configurations as above
Low-end - high end
933 - 1.3 DP M/GHz
1.5 - 3gig DDR RAM
GeForce 2 (Do you really need anything else)
CD-RW drive
OS X Server
built in 5" TFT Display for monitoring
$2499-$4499
Software
iMovie 3
allows for 2nd video track, dozens of transitions, effects
iEdit
Photo editing software like Adobe PhotoDeluxe
"Something else insanely great coming soon" (ie. PhotoStudio Pro, at MWTokyo)
Announce Future planned uptdate to iTunes, to include easy to add (read: without ResEdit) skins
Preview of Photoshop X/7
Preview OS 9.3/5 and X.2/5
Spring-loaded folders
everything seen in the 10.2 Article
iBook
Upgrade cache to 512k
PowerBook
No changes
Monitors
Price reductions across the board
New 24" display requiring new ADC II graphics card ($100)
$2999
Other
iPod remote
$20 for current iPod owners, (S&H) free with new iPods
"One Last Thing"
LCD iMac with same enclosure as current one, with a 15" TFT display and PCI (and maybe AGP) slots where the CRT was.
Fast
700Mhz G3 processor
128 RAM PCI 133
40gig HD (7200 RPM, since there is more room for air circulation)
GeForce 2 or current Radeon
DVD or CD-RW drive, upgradable to Combo
$999, $1199 with combo
Faster
800MHz G3
256 RAM
40gig HD
GeForce 2
Combo Drive
$1399
Fastest
900Mhz G3
512 RAM
60gig HD
GeForce 3 or Radeon 8500
Combo Drive
$1599
Last but not least
New Apple Surround Sound wireless speakers
This one speaks for itself
$249
This plus all the usual "State-of-the-Mac" speeches, Photoshop shootouts, demonstrations, etc. should fill in the nice large time block. Personally, with exception of the G5 (which I thought was planned for this expo until the G4 rebate thing got extended a month), I think this is going to be the best event since the introduction of the iMac.
[ 12-27-2001: Message edited by: MacMan ]</p>
-Consumer-
Faster
1.2 GHz PowerPC G5
60 GB HD ATA 100
256 MB DDR RAM
GeForce 3
Combo Drive
$1599
Fastest
1.6 GHz PowerPC G5
80 GB HD ATA 100
256 MB DDR RAM
GeForce 4
Superdrive
$2199
Ultimate
Dual 1.4 GHz PowerPC G5's
100 GB HD ATA 100
256 MB DDR RAM
GeForce 4
SuperDrive
$2999
-Server-
Fast
Mac OS X Server
1.2 GHz PowerPC G5
512MB DDR RAM
100 GB ATA 100
CD-RW drive
Nvidia GeForce2 MX
2 USB & 2 Firewire ports, 1 Gigawire port
$2799
Faster
Mac OS X Server
1.6 GHz PowerPC G5
1 GB DDR RAM
100 GB ATA 100
CD-RW drive
Nvidia GeForce2 MX
2 USB & 2 Firewire ports, 1 Gigawire port
$3799
Ultimate
Mac OS X Server
Dual 1.4 GHz PowerPC G5's
2 GB DDR RAM
2x100 GB ATA 100
CD-RW drive
Nvidia GeForce2 MX
2 USB & 2 Firewire ports, 1 Gigawire port
$4799
-=Software=-
Mac OS X Now Default OS
iMovie 3
iDVD 3
DVD Studio Pro 2
iPicture
Photoshop 7
Mac OS 9.3
Mac OS X 10.2
-=iBook=-
No changes
-=PowerBook G4=-
No changes
-=Monitors=-
15" @ $499
17" @ $799
22" @ $1799
>One Last Thing<
-=iMac=-
15" LCD iMac w/new case, iPod-like coloring.
Fast
667 MHz G4 PowerPC
128 MB RAM
40 GB ATA 100
GeForce 2
CD-RW Drive
2 USB & 2 Firewire ports, 1 Gigawire port
$999
Faster
733MHz G4 PowerPC
256 MB RAM
60 GB ATA 100
GeForce 2
Combo Drive
2 USB & 2 Firewire ports, 1 Gigawire port
$1299
Fastest
867MHz G4 PowerPC
256 RAM
80 GB HD ATA 100
GeForce 2
SuperDrive
2 USB & 2 Firewire ports, 1 Gigawire port
$1599
If that iMac line comes out...Fastest, here I come.
1.2 +Ghz G4 = Yes
New Powermac = Yes
New iMac = duh
New Displays = Yes
G4 iMac = NO
OSX update = NO
Apollo G4s, up to around 1.1Ghz.
Nothing else new - no new cases, memory speed, or anything else.
iMac:
15" LCD, G3 800Mhz
Slot-load DVD/CDRW combo drive
Starting at $1299
Nothing else new - no Superdrives, entertainment centers, removable tablet screens, etc.
Old iMacs will stay around for a while at sub-$1000 prices.
[ 12-28-2001: Message edited by: BRussell ]</p>
[ 12-28-2001: Message edited by: nathan22t ]</p>
In my view, guesses should be justified in some way, otherwise how do they differ from the prognostic ranting of schizophrenics? On the other hand, I'm perplexed by those posters who do justify their predictions, but in an unrealistic way, by saying things like "Based on how long the G4 has been out, a G5 MUST appear," or "Apple MUST release a Power Mac faster than 1 GHz; otherwise they are ruined," or "Why does Apple hold back? Why don't they just release a Mac at 1 GHz? They must." But what if there is no over-1 GHz CPU available for Apple to use, or there is one but it dissipates 100 Watts, or costs $1,000? Apple can only sell what Motorola and IBM provide. Either there is no suitable faster-than-867 MHz chip for Apple to use (then they surely can't release a computer with one inside), or there IS such a chip (in which case you can be sure that they will use it). Some posters are requiring Apple to do the impossible, and for reasons that Apple as a successful business entity surely does not follow.
I have my own list of guesses as to what will be revealed in MWSF 2002, but I also give here my justifications for my educated guesses (or at least I give a URL to the place where a degree of justification will be found). First the guesses.
-iMac
7460-G4 (Apollo)
1.0 - 1.2 GHz
15-in. flat panel display, 266 DDR memory bus
-iBook
750fx-G3 (Sahara)
1.0 GHz
no other change
-PowerBook
7460-G4 (Apollo)
1.0 GHz
266 DDR memory bus
-Professional-Desktop
8500-G5
1.2 GHz, 1.4 GHz, 1.6 GHz, dual 1.0 GHz, quad 1.0 GHz
All prof. desktop models --
(a.) 400-MHz (100x4) QDR front-side bus,
(b.) "Gigawire", which is either RapidIO (for connecting multiple CPUs), or 1600 MHz fibre-optic FireWire,
(c.) FireWire 2,
(d.) USB 2,
(e.) Bluetouth
-Prof-Desktop CONCEPT DEMO ("model coming later")
8500-G5
quad 2.8 GHz
Should reach equiv. SPEC2000 of 7600 (11 times a 2-GHz P4)
-Rack-mount server-Mac, U1 or U2 size
8500-G5
multi 0.8 GHz
(a.) Headless, no video,
(b.) Controlled via AirPort and rlogin by an iBook,
(c.) RapidIO backplane for up to 32 CPU-cards in 1 box, big powersupply, big fan,
(d.) Cheap but powerful, an Itanium killer.
The principle followed in my guesses:
I have no "inside information", but Apple will use in 2002 starting in January or February, whichever advanced PPC CPUs are available in sufficient quantities and whichever are suitable, given the constraints of price and heat-dissipation, for a given model. So what one needs to know in order to make an informed guess, is what PPC chips will be available in Jan. 2002 for Apple to choose from; here my chart (URL below) is serviceable. This chart was the basis for my choice of Apollo, Sahara, and G5 in Apple's January 2002 machines -- "Intel Designs vs the PowerPC Family":
\t<a href="http://www.bayarea.net/~kins/AboutMe/CPUs.html"; target="_blank">http://www.bayarea.net/~kins/AboutMe/CPUs.html</a>;
Quad 2.8-GHz G5:
Regarding the seemingly fantastical idea of a quad 2.8-GHz G5 demo-model being possible today, consider this: apparently a very small percentage of chips on Motorola's G5 wafers test good at 2.8 GHz; why not use them for something, even when the mem bus and other system components would not to able to show off the quad-G5 setup to its best advantage, and the insufficient yields prohibit their being the basis of a product at this time?
Kins Collins