I'm going to have to diagree with that. Blowing up an entire planet (Alderan) is a bit more than maintaining a credible image.
Vader didn't blow up Alderaan. That was Tarkin's idea. Hence Vader's rather shocked "What do you mean?" Look how fast his head whips around Vader wanted to keep dragging his feet using the ineffectual mind probe on Leia. Vader was the one that let them escape. He suggested putting the tracking device on the Falcon, to Tarkin's displeasure. Vader even left the Death Star at the last minute. He wanted it destroyed.
Note Vader's rather consoling (albeit also restraining) grip on Leia's shoulder.
Plus it was Vader that was delaying Tarkin from finding the rebel base by demanding he be allowed to continue trying to extract info from Leia, which was slow and buying the Rebellion some time. Tarkin was too impatient for that. (page 87-88 of the novel).
I also think Vader's meditation chamber was built so that he could hide his feelings from the Emperor.
Darth Vader pre-burning/armor was evil. Post armor, I feel he was on a slow steady mission to eventually kill the Emperor. Not that the Emperor would be surprised, since that's the Sith way. But the Emperor was arrogant enough to think that Vader was old and weak and Luke was the only one that could do it. When Luke proved stubborn and not strong enough, he had no use for either of them.
i have a bit more respect now for the whole midichlorian concept now that i more fully grasp (thanks to you johnq..! ) the duality of the midichlorian and it's modern-day-biology references
You've taken your first steps into a larger universe...
gotta love the biology references back in the day when i had to take that class... it was soo easy i just slept through everything and pulled out an A... take car.e may the force be w/ you...
speaking of universes, does anyone believe that theres an end to the universe?
George Lucas is NOT a screenwriter...but he's too powerful for anyone to actually tell him that. He appears to be not that great of a director either. Story visionary? Sure! Tremendous imagination? Absolutely!
read "the second coming of steve jobs." he devotes a chunk of a chapter on geroge lucas, since that's who steve bought pixar from, and in it, he makes mention of how the original star wars trilogy, while passed over for many oscars, actually did win them for editing (i.e. leaving stuff on the cutting room floor, george!). and who was the head of the editing team? his wife, whom he divorced shortly after the original trilogy, as they both cited the stress of the making of that original trilogy for splitting them up. so there's your answer... the only person with enough sway to tell george to keep his cgi in his pants was his wife. once she was gone, well...
so there's your answer... the only person with enough sway to tell george to keep his cgi in his pants was his wife. once she was gone, well...
Not that CGI existed then, aside from the primitive vector Death Star trench animation. The limits actually helped keep the story human and set the focus more tightly than the CGI menageries and too-busy compositions.
And editing isn't merely leaving things out. Pacing is crucial. Something that the prequels tends to lose once too many plotlines spring up and overlap.
But yeah it's obvious that his wife was influential. Unfortunately so was the dreadful (except her ass) Natalie Portman. There's pretty much only one way she got that gig...
Right, in Jedi, Anakin kills the Emperor and brings balance to the force. Luke was a helpful distraction, to tempt the Emperor to think Luke would make a good replacement for Vader as the Emperor's new apprentice. (Remember, this was Vader offering that in Empire). This let Vader get Luke as close to the Emperor as possible. Vader knew Luke was good and powerful and would not kill his own father. This let Vader kill the Emperor himself when he was weakened/distracted.
The prophecy was right, it just took a while to happen.
I think that the prophecy was fulfilled when Anakin brings about the death of most the Jedi. There were a lot of practitioners of the light-side of the force, (the jedi knights), and only a few practitioners of the dark-side (the seth). The the death of the jedi "balanced" the force. Of course, as we have all known since episode one that balancing the force was not going to be a good thing, and Yoda says as much when he state that they might have misinterpreted the prophecy.
And about Vader using Luke as a stalking horse -- Vader would have had many opportunities to kill the Emperor during his reign if he really wanted to: Vader made the decision to kill him in the climactic scene the moment that he decided that Lukes life was more important than his masters.
I think that the prophecy was fulfilled when Anakin brings about the death of most the Jedi. There were a lot of practitioners of the light-side of the force, (the jedi knights), and only a few practitioners of the dark-side (the seth). The the death of the jedi "balanced" the force. Of course, as we have all known since episode one that balancing the force was not going to be a good thing, and Yoda says as much when he state that they might have misinterpreted the prophecy. ......
yeah that's the thing that makes me not like all the other jedi, except for Shakti because she's very cutely-drawn in CloneWars animated series... and of course i think yoda and obiwan are cool. mace windu is a bit too up himself for my liking.
but yeah that's the thing in that you could look at it that "okay, there is some balance coming to the force"... now the jedi should be thinking.. okay we have like hundreds of light-side practitioners... 1 dark lord and 1 dark apprentice... hmm... balancing is coming... hmmm...... HELLO? ANYONE HOME? too much light side...!! which explains the jedi council (i don't really like the council as well) being scared about anakin, because they know that the Jedi's reign of light-side supremacy is coming to an end....
just to recap... Obiwan, Shakti, and Yoda are the jedi's jedi... the rest, well.... i'm just not that impressed by them.
hmm.. my favourite Sith characters... well, Vader, yes, palpatine was really well-acted but the character himself is very scary
I'll say this for G. Lucas, he's moviedom's greatist marketeer EVAR...
Had he resisted the temptation to "kiddie-ize" Return Of The Jedi with Ewoks and Yoda, Darth and OWK standing together in ghosty relief at the end, that would have remained the overall best of the entire series...IMHO.
Certainly the acting in the original three movies is superior in almost every way compared to the last three. Yes, acting overall isn't as wretched in "Sith" as the first two. You guys are a forgiving bunch...
Just to jump back to page 1 - thanks to Sunilraman for his comments about who gets clones and who gets droids etc. I mostly kapish. must watch other episodes again soon
random thought
if only...We'd had wookies instead of ewoks in Ep6. instead of small irrelevant fluffy things, it would have been the mob of howling kickass chewies that we see fleetingly in ep3
Now, Death Stars. Am I right in thinking that at the end of Ep3 the bad guys looked out of the window at a partially built Deathstar? In which case does it take them another 15-20 years to finish off ready for Ep4?
But, didn't the emperor whip up a deathstar - albeit unfinished - superquick ready for Ep6? Maybe they had a selection on the go, or they had really good steel-frame construction team, but the internal fitting out had union trouble.
Just to jump back to page 1 - thanks to Sunilraman for his comments about who gets clones and who gets droids etc. I mostly kapish. must watch other episodes again soon
random thought
if only...We'd had wookies instead of ewoks in Ep6. instead of small irrelevant fluffy things, it would have been the mob of howling kickass chewies that we see fleetingly in ep3
Now, Death Stars. Am I right in thinking that at the end of Ep3 the bad guys looked out of the window at a partially built Deathstar? In which case does it take them another 15-20 years to finish off ready for Ep4?
But, didn't the emperor whip up a deathstar - albeit unfinished - superquick ready for Ep6? Maybe they had a selection on the go, or they had really good steel-frame construction team, but the internal fitting out had union trouble.
cheers
BNFB
ROFLMAO
yes wookies would definitely be awesome in episode 6, tie in with episode 3. wookies were cool in episode 3. everybody in the cinema went, "aww...." when chewie lifted yoda onto his shoulder.
yes at the end of episode 3 the bad guys are looking at a deathstar starting to be built. note also that at the end of episode 2 the geonosians (insect things) have the plans for the death star (hence my theory of the emperor harvesting the best tech from both the separatists and the old republic -- nothing like a good ol' war to get the scientists and technicians cranking out new diabolical stuff)
it kinda makes sense. it takes 15-20 years to build this big-ass thing that can essentially destroy a whole planet, recharge, then destroy another planet, all while cruising around in space at a reasonable speed.
in takes only a few years to rebuild because i guess they built it once already, and as we know this is 20+ years on when they first saw the plans, so in the star wars universe technology would have progressed quite fast as well that the emperor 'can whip up a new one' quicksmart.
edit: also by the end of episode 5 darth vader would have perfected his use of the force-death-neck-grip-killing so extra incentive for everybody to work really really hard as opposed to when he first became darth vader and was perhaps not as powerful
it kinda makes sense. it takes 15-20 years to build this big-ass thing that can essentially destroy a whole planet, recharge, then destroy another planet, all while cruising around in space at a reasonable speed.
Maybe they started both death stars at the same time, and one came on line first.
In fact, maybe they had more than 2 going at once.
The music. Absolutely nothing original . Re-hash from Ep 1 and 4-5-6. Guess Williams is getting bored and old.
re the music, here's a link to an interview of John williams on NPR radio. john williams interview
Good insight into how the music was composed, specially how he integrated the musical themes of episode 4-6 into episodes 1-3.
It's definitely not rehash but a great thematic composition that is carried across all three movies. When you consider all 6 episodes as one, it really is the story of Anakin and the music reflects that.
Comments
Originally posted by john.outwater
I'm going to have to diagree with that. Blowing up an entire planet (Alderan) is a bit more than maintaining a credible image.
Vader didn't blow up Alderaan. That was Tarkin's idea. Hence Vader's rather shocked "What do you mean?" Look how fast his head whips around
Note Vader's rather consoling (albeit also restraining) grip on Leia's shoulder.
Plus it was Vader that was delaying Tarkin from finding the rebel base by demanding he be allowed to continue trying to extract info from Leia, which was slow and buying the Rebellion some time. Tarkin was too impatient for that. (page 87-88 of the novel).
I also think Vader's meditation chamber was built so that he could hide his feelings from the Emperor.
Darth Vader pre-burning/armor was evil. Post armor, I feel he was on a slow steady mission to eventually kill the Emperor. Not that the Emperor would be surprised, since that's the Sith way. But the Emperor was arrogant enough to think that Vader was old and weak and Luke was the only one that could do it. When Luke proved stubborn and not strong enough, he had no use for either of them.
Originally posted by sunilraman
i have a bit more respect now for the whole midichlorian concept now that i more fully grasp (thanks to you johnq..!
You've taken your first steps into a larger universe...
Originally posted by johnq
You've taken your first steps into a larger universe...
*shakes fist* damn you johnQ ! just when i thought i was all enlightened, the fact that this point slipped by me...
i stand humbled, fellow seeker of Truth
it's a bloody never-ending story of learning and discovery, i tell ya...
speaking of universes, does anyone believe that theres an end to the universe?
i do...
Originally posted by ragingloogie
speaking of universes, does anyone believe that theres an end to the universe?
i do...
THE universe? Or this particular one?
Originally posted by rageous
THE universe? Or this particular one?
Sequential or parallel or both?
Originally posted by Chris Cuilla
George Lucas is NOT a screenwriter...but he's too powerful for anyone to actually tell him that. He appears to be not that great of a director either. Story visionary? Sure! Tremendous imagination? Absolutely!
read "the second coming of steve jobs." he devotes a chunk of a chapter on geroge lucas, since that's who steve bought pixar from, and in it, he makes mention of how the original star wars trilogy, while passed over for many oscars, actually did win them for editing (i.e. leaving stuff on the cutting room floor, george!). and who was the head of the editing team? his wife, whom he divorced shortly after the original trilogy, as they both cited the stress of the making of that original trilogy for splitting them up. so there's your answer... the only person with enough sway to tell george to keep his cgi in his pants was his wife. once she was gone, well...
Originally posted by rok
so there's your answer... the only person with enough sway to tell george to keep his cgi in his pants was his wife. once she was gone, well...
Not that CGI existed then, aside from the primitive vector Death Star trench animation. The limits actually helped keep the story human and set the focus more tightly than the CGI menageries and too-busy compositions.
And editing isn't merely leaving things out. Pacing is crucial. Something that the prequels tends to lose once too many plotlines spring up and overlap.
But yeah it's obvious that his wife was influential. Unfortunately so was the dreadful (except her ass) Natalie Portman. There's pretty much only one way she got that gig...
Originally posted by johnq
.... aside from the primitive vector Death Star trench animation....
that wireframe thing was cool... was it done in Logo or something?
Originally posted by sunilraman
that wireframe thing was cool... was it done in Logo or something?
I love that it had the laser dish at the equator.
Good intel...
Originally posted by johnq
Right, in Jedi, Anakin kills the Emperor and brings balance to the force. Luke was a helpful distraction, to tempt the Emperor to think Luke would make a good replacement for Vader as the Emperor's new apprentice. (Remember, this was Vader offering that in Empire). This let Vader get Luke as close to the Emperor as possible. Vader knew Luke was good and powerful and would not kill his own father. This let Vader kill the Emperor himself when he was weakened/distracted.
The prophecy was right, it just took a while to happen.
I think that the prophecy was fulfilled when Anakin brings about the death of most the Jedi. There were a lot of practitioners of the light-side of the force, (the jedi knights), and only a few practitioners of the dark-side (the seth). The the death of the jedi "balanced" the force. Of course, as we have all known since episode one that balancing the force was not going to be a good thing, and Yoda says as much when he state that they might have misinterpreted the prophecy.
And about Vader using Luke as a stalking horse -- Vader would have had many opportunities to kill the Emperor during his reign if he really wanted to: Vader made the decision to kill him in the climactic scene the moment that he decided that Lukes life was more important than his masters.
At least that is the way I see it.
Originally posted by Res
I think that the prophecy was fulfilled when Anakin brings about the death of most the Jedi. There were a lot of practitioners of the light-side of the force, (the jedi knights), and only a few practitioners of the dark-side (the seth). The the death of the jedi "balanced" the force. Of course, as we have all known since episode one that balancing the force was not going to be a good thing, and Yoda says as much when he state that they might have misinterpreted the prophecy. ......
yeah that's the thing that makes me not like all the other jedi, except for Shakti because she's very cutely-drawn in CloneWars animated series... and of course i think yoda and obiwan are cool. mace windu is a bit too up himself for my liking.
but yeah that's the thing in that you could look at it that "okay, there is some balance coming to the force"... now the jedi should be thinking.. okay we have like hundreds of light-side practitioners... 1 dark lord and 1 dark apprentice... hmm... balancing is coming... hmmm...... HELLO? ANYONE HOME? too much light side...!!
just to recap... Obiwan, Shakti, and Yoda are the jedi's jedi... the rest, well.... i'm just not that impressed by them.
hmm.. my favourite Sith characters... well, Vader, yes, palpatine was really well-acted but the character himself is very scary
Had he resisted the temptation to "kiddie-ize" Return Of The Jedi with Ewoks and Yoda, Darth and OWK standing together in ghosty relief at the end, that would have remained the overall best of the entire series...IMHO.
Certainly the acting in the original three movies is superior in almost every way compared to the last three. Yes, acting overall isn't as wretched in "Sith" as the first two. You guys are a forgiving bunch...
random thought
if only...We'd had wookies instead of ewoks in Ep6. instead of small irrelevant fluffy things, it would have been the mob of howling kickass chewies that we see fleetingly in ep3
Now, Death Stars. Am I right in thinking that at the end of Ep3 the bad guys looked out of the window at a partially built Deathstar? In which case does it take them another 15-20 years to finish off ready for Ep4?
But, didn't the emperor whip up a deathstar - albeit unfinished - superquick ready for Ep6? Maybe they had a selection on the go, or they had really good steel-frame construction team, but the internal fitting out had union trouble.
cheers
BNFB
Originally posted by brandnewfatboy
Just to jump back to page 1 - thanks to Sunilraman for his comments about who gets clones and who gets droids etc. I mostly kapish. must watch other episodes again soon
random thought
if only...We'd had wookies instead of ewoks in Ep6. instead of small irrelevant fluffy things, it would have been the mob of howling kickass chewies that we see fleetingly in ep3
Now, Death Stars. Am I right in thinking that at the end of Ep3 the bad guys looked out of the window at a partially built Deathstar? In which case does it take them another 15-20 years to finish off ready for Ep4?
But, didn't the emperor whip up a deathstar - albeit unfinished - superquick ready for Ep6? Maybe they had a selection on the go, or they had really good steel-frame construction team, but the internal fitting out had union trouble.
cheers
BNFB
ROFLMAO
yes wookies would definitely be awesome in episode 6, tie in with episode 3. wookies were cool in episode 3. everybody in the cinema went, "aww...." when chewie lifted yoda onto his shoulder.
yes at the end of episode 3 the bad guys are looking at a deathstar starting to be built. note also that at the end of episode 2 the geonosians (insect things) have the plans for the death star (hence my theory of the emperor harvesting the best tech from both the separatists and the old republic -- nothing like a good ol' war to get the scientists and technicians cranking out new diabolical stuff)
it kinda makes sense. it takes 15-20 years to build this big-ass thing that can essentially destroy a whole planet, recharge, then destroy another planet, all while cruising around in space at a reasonable speed.
in takes only a few years to rebuild because i guess they built it once already, and as we know this is 20+ years on when they first saw the plans, so in the star wars universe technology would have progressed quite fast as well that the emperor 'can whip up a new one'
edit: also by the end of episode 5 darth vader would have perfected his use of the force-death-neck-grip-killing so extra incentive for everybody to work really really hard as opposed to when he first became darth vader and was perhaps not as powerful
Originally posted by rok
read as they both cited the stress of the making of that original trilogy for splitting them up. well...
actually, Georges wife cheated on him, and left both him and the children....
Originally posted by The General
actually, Georges wife cheated on him, and left both him and the children....
Bummer...
it kinda makes sense. it takes 15-20 years to build this big-ass thing that can essentially destroy a whole planet, recharge, then destroy another planet, all while cruising around in space at a reasonable speed.
Maybe they started both death stars at the same time, and one came on line first.
In fact, maybe they had more than 2 going at once.
Originally posted by e1618978
Maybe they started both death stars at the same time, and one came on line first.
In fact, maybe they had more than 2 going at once.
oooh... good stuff if george is going to make a tv series for the stuff that happens between episode 3 and 4
Originally posted by ZO
The music. Absolutely nothing original . Re-hash from Ep 1 and 4-5-6. Guess Williams is getting bored and old.
re the music, here's a link to an interview of John williams on NPR radio. john williams interview
Good insight into how the music was composed, specially how he integrated the musical themes of episode 4-6 into episodes 1-3.
It's definitely not rehash but a great thematic composition that is carried across all three movies. When you consider all 6 episodes as one, it really is the story of Anakin and the music reflects that.