For the price, I honestly wouldn't have much problem ponying up for the 12" iBook model, but PC laptops are starting to become very, very nice (and the prices keep coming lower and lower).
I wonder how many here have actually considered going to a PC laptop (but presumably still have a desktop Mac).
It may sound sacriligious, but the thought has creeped into my mind...especially when I see outrageously cheaper PC laptops even though it doesn't run OSX.
And todays iBook announcement doesn't help the Mac cause.
I bought the 14" this morning. I wanted the dvd burner, or I would've gone with the 12". Will be my first Mac, and I plan to switch to a Mac desktop sometime next year.
It's been interesting and informative reading these boards during the last week. In fact they're the only reason I learned about the update rumors and waited to purchase. So glad I did, even though most of you don't approve of the updates.
Because what I need is a humungous screen to carry around that doesnt actually show me anymore information. I do accept that users with poor eyesight will appreciate a big screen.
Quote:
Graphics: ATI Mobility Radeon X300
Video Memory: up to 128MB shared
Shared memory, you know, sucks. Not only does it use up your main memory for video ( 512mb is now 384mb ), it is slow, and it slows down your main memory for your cpu. The x300 is just the PCI-Express version of the 9550 that is in the ibook.
Quote:
Expansion Card Slots: ExpressCard/54 slot
Well, its nice to have, but since the ibook didnt ever have pcmcia you cant really expect it to have an express card. At any rate, the express card is based on USB ( and PCI express ) so it really is just a convenient way to store your USB device. Considering the monster size of this machine there should be plenty of space for it.
Quote:
Apple better get it's ass in gear. This last transition is it. If price per performance doesn't improve then that's it. Looking at Apple's specs it's understandable why they have 320 million in profits.
Well, this machine certainly is faster than the ibook, but everything else is pretty much on a par. It is much BIGGER, which isnt a win in my book, and its battery life is going to be pretty attrocious, unless you buy the extra BIG extra HEAVY 9 cell battery. Not to mention, the build quality of HPs, in my experience, is terrible. This machine is a joke, if you are trying to use it as an example of how much cheaper PCs are. Excluding the hardware side of things, you have to use Windows on it. Just not nice. Not nice at all.
Reply typed on a shoddy Acer 1.4ghz. To big to carry, shitty battery life, heavy, crap build quality, stinky windows XP.
Looks like a predictable and desirable upgrade to me.
That its an evolutionary, not revolutionary product means that there'll be no shipping delays and we'll actually have stock in a relatively short period of time.
With the customer getting more for the same amount of money, and actually having product to sell, these will sell very well over the next few months.
Not having to worry about urging the customer to buy more ram will also help attach rates of Applecare and iPods.
I'm also happy because my 12" Pbook is still a superior machine.
There are going to be a lot of students and consumers a lot more impressed, when they turn on their iBook for the first time, or play with one at the Apple store, now that it has an acceptable amount of memory.
HAHAHA, "play with one at the apple store now that it has an acceptable amount of memory."
EVERY machine (except 1) in my local Apple store (including Minis) had a minimum of 512mb of memory for the last 5 months. talk about bait and switch. Sorry, I had to really search to find a stock machine in my local store.
but yes, i'm glad they've made it standard but the GPU just sucks. no buy here.
This is most certainly a sad joke! You think that they could have atleast went with the 90nm G4 and got the cache size up a bit. In any event this does seem to indicate that PowerBooks aren't going anywhare soon.
As to PowerBooks I would not be surprised if they hit the street around the new year with Intel processors. A little sooner than described but lets face it if they don't have anything in the pipe to allow a decnet iBook upgrade today then there doesn't appear to be alot of hope for substantially fast PPC Powerbooks.
What bothers me to no end is that there does seem to be a loyalty problem with respect to Apple users. I don't see how free consumers can be so gullible to continue to do business with Apple. It is not like they don't have access to parts to improve the iBook, so one can only think that Apple has a very low opinion with respect to iBook user intelligence. In otherwords this release is an insult to anybody with a bit of gray matter between their ears.
DAve
Quote:
Originally posted by specialkbdc
What a joke.
Apparently Apple knows exactly how loyal we are to the OS.
I think this is a pretty fair barometer of the kind of update we will see with the Powerbooks in September or October.
They are gonna outright limp to Intel with the portables. The Year Of The iBook!
Let hope that that extra ram doesn't take up expansion space. This whole release is a bit sleazy if you ask me. Maybe somebody from Apple can chime in with more details.
Dave
Quote:
Originally posted by Invader Zim
At least the 14"'s bus is slightly faster (142MHz) and both now include 512MB of DDR333/PC3200 RAM (compared to 256MB DDR266/PC2100). Still no ouble-layer superdrive like the eMac and iMac's have.
Great. Except the iBook IS broke, so hopefully they have fixed it. How many people have been stuck with this current crop of iBooks with bad video problems? Enough, apparently, to cause Apple to have a program to repair them for free (hell, Apple hasn't even done this for the iMac G5s, which have a horrible history of capacitor issues and machines going 'poof!'). And they've had to extend it at least once, to a different batch of iBooks. Me, mine just went 'poof' over the weekend (it was acting a little wacky, but I was hoping to get a couple more weeks out of it). And this is the second time it'll be going back.
Yeah, I don't think I'll be buying another iBook anytime soon.
Why are people still stuck in ibook G3 days? I guess more people live in the past then I thought. Well the iMac G5's with problems were Rev a's. Rev A's have bugs! iBook G4's don't suffer from the logic board problem. I will clear up some issues
1) The new 9550 should work with Core Image. It is a 9600 practically like the 9650 is really a 9600 XT with dual link and 128 MB more VRAM.
2) the 9550 should beat the FX5200 in the 12" powerbook. The only thing the 5200 has is 32 MB VRAM more, so technically, the 5200 should be better at games. Put a 5200 with 32 MB vs the 9550. The 9550 should beat it.
3) Never get your hopes up with rumors when dealing with Apple.
4) This was an expected update to the ibook. I never expected a widescreen ibook. I expected 512 MB ram standard. What I didn't expect was it being built in.
5)The ibooks are in a way better then the 12" Powerbook. 512 MB ram built in in ibook vs 256 for 12" powerbook. Once again with ram, ibook max 1.5 GB 12" Powerbook 1.25 GB max.
What bothers me to no end is that there does seem to be a loyalty problem with respect to Apple users. I don't see how free consumers can be so gullible to continue to do business with Apple. It is not like they don't have access to parts to improve the iBook, so one can only think that Apple has a very low opinion with respect to iBook user intelligence. In otherwords this release is an insult to anybody with a bit of gray matter between their ears.
DAve
Yet, does anyone ever put Jobs to task at shareholders meetings?
Someone should stand up during the Q&A sessions and question why they continually screw up opportunities to grow the market. Or does Steve's RDF work there too?
This is most certainly a sad joke! You think that they could have atleast went with the 90nm G4 and got the cache size up a bit. In any event this does seem to indicate that PowerBooks aren't going anywhare soon.
As to PowerBooks I would not be surprised if they hit the street around the new year with Intel processors.
You just answered alone your questions. But it seems you do not realize that you did it.
Anybody here gonna upgrade their G4 iBooks to the latest model?
I'm not even going to upgrade my G3. I was planning to buy if this upgrade was a good one. The only thing I'm really pleased about is the RAM bump. Otherwise, ehh...no thanks.
I am really shocked by the negative responses to this fantastic update, from Apple Computer. The 12-inch iBook is now an out-of-the-box performing machine, for so many more people. You have the airport (yes I know that isn't new), you have the bluetooth, and you have 512MB of memory. Plus, it is faster. All of this, for just under one thousand dollars.
There are going to be a lot of students and consumers a lot more impressed, when they turn on their iBook for the first time, or play with one at the Apple store, now that it has an acceptable amount of memory. Furthermore, there is less one has to "add on."
Finally, I point out the 512 MB is built-in, so if you want to add memory, you have a completely open So-dimm slot, which is not the case on the current 12-inch Pbook, which has 512 split, between built-in and so-dimm.
I congratulate Apple. I think this was an acceptable update, and I look forward to the Q4 numbers.
I think this is an excellent update and fully on par with the update that Apple had with the PowerBook a few months ago. Basically, they threw everything in that they could for this final version of the G4 iBook, just as they did for the G4 PowerBook earlier.
I'm quite happy that they upped the RAM to the minium 512MB needed for Tiger. I'm also VERY pleased that they replaced the video card with a Core Image capable card. The scrolling trackpad is a great feature and I love it on my PowerBook. And, with the inclusion of the kitchen sink, they kept the price on the 12" model to $999. My parents will love this iBook!
No, maybe you didn't get my point or it was not expressed clearly. Apple could have done much more with respect to the performance of the iBook's recent update. There is room to grow both the PowerBooks and the iBooks on PPC technology.
In any event a real performance boost to the ibooks would not have been objectionable at this point maybe even advantageous given the school buying is about to start. The performance difference between the ibook and the powerBook means nothing with respect to sales in the coming months. So why not a decent ibook when the intel Powerbooks are just around the corner? The possibility that the iBooks could have gotten a decent upsate would not have had impacted PowerBooks at all as the intel cloud hangs over their sales.
What i boils down to is that Apple shot them selves in the foot here. This is not an update that will drive sales at all.
Dave
Quote:
Originally posted by PB
You just answered alone your questions. But it seems you do not realize that you did it.
Well this makes me feel a little less sad about the fact that I bought before the upgrade. I miss out on the upgraded proccessor but that is about it. The way some people were talking here I was worried it would be a G5 widescreen.
Time to move along to a linux based intel lappy if you ask me. I've waited long time for Apple to get real with respect to the portables AND THE REQUIREEMNTS OF OS/X and they haven't come through. What makes it even worst is that it would have been so easy for them. I mean they could have switched to a new generation video chip with no problems and still had a chip that was realtively old.
Nope this is clearly an issue where Apple is telling users that they don't give a damn about them. Hear is our crap no eat it. Well this guy isn't about to and I would suggest that no one else do also.
Thanks
Dave
Quote:
Originally posted by sandau
i had an iBook in my cart and waited for this announcement in case it had a better screen and GPU but it doesn't. And only VGA out? pooo.
Yes, its a better deal today than yesterday with some of the options built in but no way in hades am I going to buy an iBook with 1024x768 resolution. Yuck. Time to move along. I'll have to look at the next revision.
Comments
Originally posted by Chagi
For the price, I honestly wouldn't have much problem ponying up for the 12" iBook model, but PC laptops are starting to become very, very nice (and the prices keep coming lower and lower).
I wonder how many here have actually considered going to a PC laptop (but presumably still have a desktop Mac).
It may sound sacriligious, but the thought has creeped into my mind...especially when I see outrageously cheaper PC laptops even though it doesn't run OSX.
And todays iBook announcement doesn't help the Mac cause.
It's been interesting and informative reading these boards during the last week. In fact they're the only reason I learned about the update rumors and waited to purchase. So glad I did, even though most of you don't approve of the updates.
Originally posted by hmurchison
Man I'm tired of waiting for decent Mac hardware.
HP NX6125 $994
Processor: AMD Turion 64 ML28 Processor (1.60GHz)
A mere 35w battery sucker.
Display: 15" TFT XGA with 1024 x 768
Because what I need is a humungous screen to carry around that doesnt actually show me anymore information. I do accept that users with poor eyesight will appreciate a big screen.
Graphics: ATI Mobility Radeon X300
Video Memory: up to 128MB shared
Shared memory, you know, sucks. Not only does it use up your main memory for video ( 512mb is now 384mb ), it is slow, and it slows down your main memory for your cpu. The x300 is just the PCI-Express version of the 9550 that is in the ibook.
Expansion Card Slots: ExpressCard/54 slot
Well, its nice to have, but since the ibook didnt ever have pcmcia you cant really expect it to have an express card. At any rate, the express card is based on USB ( and PCI express ) so it really is just a convenient way to store your USB device. Considering the monster size of this machine there should be plenty of space for it.
Apple better get it's ass in gear. This last transition is it. If price per performance doesn't improve then that's it. Looking at Apple's specs it's understandable why they have 320 million in profits.
Well, this machine certainly is faster than the ibook, but everything else is pretty much on a par. It is much BIGGER, which isnt a win in my book, and its battery life is going to be pretty attrocious, unless you buy the extra BIG extra HEAVY 9 cell battery. Not to mention, the build quality of HPs, in my experience, is terrible. This machine is a joke, if you are trying to use it as an example of how much cheaper PCs are. Excluding the hardware side of things, you have to use Windows on it. Just not nice. Not nice at all.
Reply typed on a shoddy Acer 1.4ghz. To big to carry, shitty battery life, heavy, crap build quality, stinky windows XP.
Originally posted by ibook911
All of this, for just under one thousand dollars.
Hold your horses here. For us europeans, the iBook 12" is 50 euros more expensive now, at 1059 euros (around 1270 dollars).
I congratulate Apple. I think this was an acceptable update, and I look forward to the Q4 numbers.
This is certainly an acceptable update, but not for congratulations.
That its an evolutionary, not revolutionary product means that there'll be no shipping delays and we'll actually have stock in a relatively short period of time.
With the customer getting more for the same amount of money, and actually having product to sell, these will sell very well over the next few months.
Not having to worry about urging the customer to buy more ram will also help attach rates of Applecare and iPods.
I'm also happy because my 12" Pbook is still a superior machine.
Originally posted by mikef
What happened to the widescreen rumours?
They were just that...
Originally posted by ibook911
There are going to be a lot of students and consumers a lot more impressed, when they turn on their iBook for the first time, or play with one at the Apple store, now that it has an acceptable amount of memory.
HAHAHA, "play with one at the apple store now that it has an acceptable amount of memory."
EVERY machine (except 1) in my local Apple store (including Minis) had a minimum of 512mb of memory for the last 5 months. talk about bait and switch. Sorry, I had to really search to find a stock machine in my local store.
but yes, i'm glad they've made it standard but the GPU just sucks. no buy here.
It is substantially lighter than the iBook 12" (4.1 vs. 4.9lbs), but the case plastics are cheap and flimsy, nothing like the iBook's case.
The screen is much brighter and more vivid than the iBook's, though glare could be an issue.
And it came with a DVD+/- burner - tray loading, but who cares when the delivered price is $800?
>the new "innovative" laptop designs from Dell, heavier, thicker, slide-out optical drive trays v the slot load
As to PowerBooks I would not be surprised if they hit the street around the new year with Intel processors. A little sooner than described but lets face it if they don't have anything in the pipe to allow a decnet iBook upgrade today then there doesn't appear to be alot of hope for substantially fast PPC Powerbooks.
What bothers me to no end is that there does seem to be a loyalty problem with respect to Apple users. I don't see how free consumers can be so gullible to continue to do business with Apple. It is not like they don't have access to parts to improve the iBook, so one can only think that Apple has a very low opinion with respect to iBook user intelligence. In otherwords this release is an insult to anybody with a bit of gray matter between their ears.
DAve
Originally posted by specialkbdc
What a joke.
Apparently Apple knows exactly how loyal we are to the OS.
I think this is a pretty fair barometer of the kind of update we will see with the Powerbooks in September or October.
They are gonna outright limp to Intel with the portables. The Year Of The iBook!
Dave
Originally posted by Invader Zim
At least the 14"'s bus is slightly faster (142MHz) and both now include 512MB of DDR333/PC3200 RAM (compared to 256MB DDR266/PC2100). Still no ouble-layer superdrive like the eMac and iMac's have.
Originally posted by Louzer
Great. Except the iBook IS broke, so hopefully they have fixed it. How many people have been stuck with this current crop of iBooks with bad video problems? Enough, apparently, to cause Apple to have a program to repair them for free (hell, Apple hasn't even done this for the iMac G5s, which have a horrible history of capacitor issues and machines going 'poof!'). And they've had to extend it at least once, to a different batch of iBooks. Me, mine just went 'poof' over the weekend (it was acting a little wacky, but I was hoping to get a couple more weeks out of it). And this is the second time it'll be going back.
Yeah, I don't think I'll be buying another iBook anytime soon.
Why are people still stuck in ibook G3 days? I guess more people live in the past then I thought. Well the iMac G5's with problems were Rev a's. Rev A's have bugs! iBook G4's don't suffer from the logic board problem. I will clear up some issues
1) The new 9550 should work with Core Image. It is a 9600 practically like the 9650 is really a 9600 XT with dual link and 128 MB more VRAM.
2) the 9550 should beat the FX5200 in the 12" powerbook. The only thing the 5200 has is 32 MB VRAM more, so technically, the 5200 should be better at games. Put a 5200 with 32 MB vs the 9550. The 9550 should beat it.
3) Never get your hopes up with rumors when dealing with Apple.
4) This was an expected update to the ibook. I never expected a widescreen ibook. I expected 512 MB ram standard. What I didn't expect was it being built in.
5)The ibooks are in a way better then the 12" Powerbook. 512 MB ram built in in ibook vs 256 for 12" powerbook. Once again with ram, ibook max 1.5 GB 12" Powerbook 1.25 GB max.
Originally posted by wizard69
What bothers me to no end is that there does seem to be a loyalty problem with respect to Apple users. I don't see how free consumers can be so gullible to continue to do business with Apple. It is not like they don't have access to parts to improve the iBook, so one can only think that Apple has a very low opinion with respect to iBook user intelligence. In otherwords this release is an insult to anybody with a bit of gray matter between their ears.
DAve
Yet, does anyone ever put Jobs to task at shareholders meetings?
Someone should stand up during the Q&A sessions and question why they continually screw up opportunities to grow the market. Or does Steve's RDF work there too?
Originally posted by wizard69
This is most certainly a sad joke! You think that they could have atleast went with the 90nm G4 and got the cache size up a bit. In any event this does seem to indicate that PowerBooks aren't going anywhare soon.
As to PowerBooks I would not be surprised if they hit the street around the new year with Intel processors.
You just answered alone your questions. But it seems you do not realize that you did it.
Originally posted by OfficerDigby
Anybody here gonna upgrade their G4 iBooks to the latest model?
I'm not even going to upgrade my G3. I was planning to buy if this upgrade was a good one. The only thing I'm really pleased about is the RAM bump. Otherwise, ehh...no thanks.
Originally posted by ibook911
I am really shocked by the negative responses to this fantastic update, from Apple Computer. The 12-inch iBook is now an out-of-the-box performing machine, for so many more people. You have the airport (yes I know that isn't new), you have the bluetooth, and you have 512MB of memory. Plus, it is faster. All of this, for just under one thousand dollars.
There are going to be a lot of students and consumers a lot more impressed, when they turn on their iBook for the first time, or play with one at the Apple store, now that it has an acceptable amount of memory. Furthermore, there is less one has to "add on."
Finally, I point out the 512 MB is built-in, so if you want to add memory, you have a completely open So-dimm slot, which is not the case on the current 12-inch Pbook, which has 512 split, between built-in and so-dimm.
I congratulate Apple. I think this was an acceptable update, and I look forward to the Q4 numbers.
I guess they wouldn't have to do it if there were G5s for portables.
Maybe when the dual-core G4s are ready for Powerbooks we'll get core-image-ready graphics on the iBooks.
The big question in my mind is -- why is Bluetooth standard on these otherwise sort-of-hobbled machines?
Is Apple up to something big with Bluetooth? Is this just to support the new Motorola iTunes phone or something else?
That's the most interesting part of the update to me.
I'm quite happy that they upped the RAM to the minium 512MB needed for Tiger. I'm also VERY pleased that they replaced the video card with a Core Image capable card. The scrolling trackpad is a great feature and I love it on my PowerBook. And, with the inclusion of the kitchen sink, they kept the price on the 12" model to $999. My parents will love this iBook!
In any event a real performance boost to the ibooks would not have been objectionable at this point maybe even advantageous given the school buying is about to start. The performance difference between the ibook and the powerBook means nothing with respect to sales in the coming months. So why not a decent ibook when the intel Powerbooks are just around the corner? The possibility that the iBooks could have gotten a decent upsate would not have had impacted PowerBooks at all as the intel cloud hangs over their sales.
What i boils down to is that Apple shot them selves in the foot here. This is not an update that will drive sales at all.
Dave
Originally posted by PB
You just answered alone your questions. But it seems you do not realize that you did it.
Nope this is clearly an issue where Apple is telling users that they don't give a damn about them. Hear is our crap no eat it. Well this guy isn't about to and I would suggest that no one else do also.
Thanks
Dave
Originally posted by sandau
i had an iBook in my cart and waited for this announcement in case it had a better screen and GPU but it doesn't. And only VGA out? pooo.
Yes, its a better deal today than yesterday with some of the options built in but no way in hades am I going to buy an iBook with 1024x768 resolution. Yuck. Time to move along. I'll have to look at the next revision.