danvm

canukstorm said:

danvm said:

canukstorm said:

GeorgeBMac said:

sdw2001 said:

Wgkrueger said:

GeorgeBMac said:

seanj said:

GeorgeBMac said:

For all those defending the "Everything Glued together & soldered together" assembly of the MacBooks by saying "Nobody ever upgraded a computer", Andrew just called bull!

His biggest (only?) complaint about his M1 MacBook Air is that it can't meet his needs because it is frozen in time with what it came with when he bought it -- versus his MacPro which grew and developed with enhancements as his needs, wants and requirements grew.

Likewise, my 9 year old i7 Thinkpad runs perfectly well and meets all of my needs -- because it's been upgraded to a 500Gb SSD, 16Gb Ram and an internal harddrive used for ongoing, real time backups.  Without those cheap and very simple to install (5 minutes or less) upgrades the machine would have been scrap

Only a tiny percentage of people tinker with the computers, it’s a niche market that’s similar to those that add nitrous oxide to their cars...
Most people just want a computer they can do things with, rather than do things to, in other words a consumer product. With Apple they get that, which is why customer satisfaction is so high.

If you have a 9 year old Thinkpad then you’re probably either running XP (good luck browsing the Internet securely) or you’re running Linux. If it’s the latter then if you happy with a limited number of professional applications then that’s fine.

I forgot to mention that its running WIndows 10.  So, its security is a good as good as any Windows machine.   Admittedly that's a low bar. 

But the point of the post was NOT about lengetivity but to reiterate what Andew said:   His MacPro remained functional because it could be upgraded with additional RAM & Storage -- while his MacBook AIr could not meet his needs because it was all glued and soldered together and locked into its initial configuration when he bought it.

If it needed to be upgraded immediately then it can be returned to Apple. If his needs exceeded the capabilities of a maxed out machine then he couldn’t upgrade it anyway (thinking memory here) and he could return it to Apple. If he used it for a period of time and his use cases changed so they exceeded the machines capabilities, which I think was part of your original point, then it’s a case of longevity. 

...

The point?  Apple clearly looked at what its customers were actually doing, and found the benefits of hardwiring and gluing everything outweighed the negatives.  While I can see the other side, I agree.  I've had Macs since the Pismo PowerBook G3 (2000).   The number of issues I had with those machines (getting a new one every 3-4 years) was far, far higher than now.  The products are not as serviceable or upgradable.  But they also don't need to be.  

 

Perhaps the question is:   Who benefited?   i don't think it was the customer.   For them, in a laptop, soldered & glued together that was non-upgradeable offers no benefit.   Can it be made a half millimeter thinner by eliminating a socket?   Perhaps.  But, even if true, that is a pretty marginal benefit.

"For them, in a laptop, soldered & glued together that was non-upgradeable offers no benefit"

It offers a laptop that is lighter due it being thinner.  That may not be a benefit to you but it is benefit to many consumers.  So much so that Windows makers have started copying the MBA design in spades.  It isn't a surprise that ultrabooks like the MBA are the hottest selling segment of the laptop market.  And now with the M1 MBA, you get a laptop that's light, fast and runs cool & quiet.

The average consumer does not care about the same things that you or other IT folk care about.  What they care about are devices that are convenient, easy to use, fast, quiet, cool and have access to web and their favorite apps. Sure, there are some consumers who care about upgradeability but they're far from the majority.  This is the mass market.  And don't get me wrong, I have nothing against computers that are upgradeable but if that's what YOU are after then you should buy a device that allows you to do that.

Maybe you don't need to copy Apple to make devices thinner and lighter.  For example, the ThinkPad X1 Nano is a 2 pound notebook, smaller and lighter than any current Apple notebook, and it has a replaceable SSD and battery, among other parts.  


X1 Nano Gen 1 Hardware Maintenance Manual (lenovo.com)

And this not only benefits someone who later needs a larger SSD drive, but also makes possible to service the device onsite without special tools.  That could be a better design compared to Apple notebooks, where you have to send it via mail or take it to an Apple Store for service.  

Like I said in my previous post, if that's a design that works for you then more power to you.  The vast majority of average consumers using their device for home use is not goint to go through the trouble of opening up their laptop, upgrade the SSD & reinstall the OS.  They want to buy it and forget it.

canukstorm said:

GeorgeBMac said:

sdw2001 said:

Wgkrueger said:

GeorgeBMac said:

seanj said:

GeorgeBMac said:

For all those defending the "Everything Glued together & soldered together" assembly of the MacBooks by saying "Nobody ever upgraded a computer", Andrew just called bull!

His biggest (only?) complaint about his M1 MacBook Air is that it can't meet his needs because it is frozen in time with what it came with when he bought it -- versus his MacPro which grew and developed with enhancements as his needs, wants and requirements grew.

Likewise, my 9 year old i7 Thinkpad runs perfectly well and meets all of my needs -- because it's been upgraded to a 500Gb SSD, 16Gb Ram and an internal harddrive used for ongoing, real time backups.  Without those cheap and very simple to install (5 minutes or less) upgrades the machine would have been scrap

Only a tiny percentage of people tinker with the computers, it’s a niche market that’s similar to those that add nitrous oxide to their cars...
Most people just want a computer they can do things with, rather than do things to, in other words a consumer product. With Apple they get that, which is why customer satisfaction is so high.

If you have a 9 year old Thinkpad then you’re probably either running XP (good luck browsing the Internet securely) or you’re running Linux. If it’s the latter then if you happy with a limited number of professional applications then that’s fine.

I forgot to mention that its running WIndows 10.  So, its security is a good as good as any Windows machine.   Admittedly that's a low bar. 

But the point of the post was NOT about lengetivity but to reiterate what Andew said:   His MacPro remained functional because it could be upgraded with additional RAM & Storage -- while his MacBook AIr could not meet his needs because it was all glued and soldered together and locked into its initial configuration when he bought it.

If it needed to be upgraded immediately then it can be returned to Apple. If his needs exceeded the capabilities of a maxed out machine then he couldn’t upgrade it anyway (thinking memory here) and he could return it to Apple. If he used it for a period of time and his use cases changed so they exceeded the machines capabilities, which I think was part of your original point, then it’s a case of longevity. 

...

The point?  Apple clearly looked at what its customers were actually doing, and found the benefits of hardwiring and gluing everything outweighed the negatives.  While I can see the other side, I agree.  I've had Macs since the Pismo PowerBook G3 (2000).   The number of issues I had with those machines (getting a new one every 3-4 years) was far, far higher than now.  The products are not as serviceable or upgradable.  But they also don't need to be.  

 

Perhaps the question is:   Who benefited?   i don't think it was the customer.   For them, in a laptop, soldered & glued together that was non-upgradeable offers no benefit.   Can it be made a half millimeter thinner by eliminating a socket?   Perhaps.  But, even if true, that is a pretty marginal benefit.

"For them, in a laptop, soldered & glued together that was non-upgradeable offers no benefit"

It offers a laptop that is lighter due it being thinner.  That may not be a benefit to you but it is benefit to many consumers.  So much so that Windows makers have started copying the MBA design in spades.  It isn't a surprise that ultrabooks like the MBA are the hottest selling segment of the laptop market.  And now with the M1 MBA, you get a laptop that's light, fast and runs cool & quiet.

The average consumer does not care about the same things that you or other IT folk care about.  What they care about are devices that are convenient, easy to use, fast, quiet, cool and have access to web and their favorite apps. Sure, there are some consumers who care about upgradeability but they're far from the majority.  This is the mass market.  And don't get me wrong, I have nothing against computers that are upgradeable but if that's what YOU are after then you should buy a device that allows you to do that.

Beats said:

Hmmm... I wonder where they got that design?

slurpy said:

Jesus Christ these ads are so pathetic. Isn't it sad how the primary anti-Apple ads the past few years just highlight ancient ports that Apple discontinued, as if they're some big new feature?

LOOK AT US WE HAVE USB-A! BECAUSE WE'RE TOO MUCH OF COWARDS TO REMOVE IT AND HELP SPEED UP THE TRANSITION! NOPE, WE NEED TO DO THE OPPOSITE, SLOW DOWN THE TRANSITION AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE BECAUSE WE'RE JUST SO TERRIFIED CONSUMERS WON'T BUY OUR PRODUCT IF WE DON'T INCLUDE THIS ANCIENT PORT!

Also, are her nails long enough? How exactly does she even use that touchscreen?

Cowards. Remember when iKnockoff morons mocked Apple for being “courageous” and removing the headphone jack?

They sure are quiet now!

USB-A will also be phased out and these morons will forget Microsoft/whoever else makes knockoff MacBooks ever mocked Apple for it.

These are becoming the new Samsung commercials. Mocking Apple for being ahead of time.

jumpingcoco said:

i still remember their last ad being overwhelmingly thumbs down even though the comments were turned off 🤣 

And the one before comparing their garbage to the M1 MacBook that had comments enabled and was downvoted to hell and had to be removed!

https://youtu.be/yNthyWUmW6I

chasm said:

KITA said:

Despite all the flak they get for "not being a tablet", Microsoft's 2015 Surface Pro 4 was the benchmark for productivity in this form factor. Sure, it didn't have smooth touch apps that iOS/iPadOS offers, but it could use the pen for literally any drawing app, OneNote, StaffPad, CAD software, etc. While at the end of the day, it was a still full Windows PC that could run just about any software, VMs and work with pretty much any device (dock, printer, monitor, controller, external storage, wired network, etc.)

If the Surface line is in your opinion so much better than the iPad, can you explain why the entire Surface line sells about as many units in a year as the iPad sells in roughly a quarter? The entire Surface line might be as high as a $7B annual business for Microsoft (just since 2019, sales were far smaller before then).

While it is hard to say exactly how much money the iPad brings in precisely, estimates on sales of iPads in 2019 were estimated at $21 billion, and have certainly increased since then (both estimates come from Forbes). IOW, Microsoft likely isn't even doing quite 1/3rd the business the iPad is doing, even with its notable advantages of a) running Windows and b) being positioned as a "hybrid" tablet.

I think it is fair to say that the direction of future iPads hasn't yet been fully revealed, but clearly the people who actually use them for everyday work (like myself, where it has almost entirely taken over apart from a pair of creative tasks from my MBP) are continuing to be ever happier with the continuing evolution.

While Kita's post is not without merit, I think the facts speak for themselves. I know many Surface users that enjoy the portability of it very much, but that's almost the sole selling point for them -- they need a "real" PC to do anything much outside Office. Believe me, I've quizzed them about this.

This is not the sentiment I or most iPad users I have similarly surveyed feel about the iPad. For many consumer-level users, the iPad makes them wonder why on earth they even still have a desktop computer. For iPad Pro users, the thing that comes up again and again in conversations is that the mostly-focused workflow of the iPad actually boosts productivity in everyday tasks, and of course those who use the Apple Pencil wouldn't even consider any other tablet.