- Last Active
dabigkahuna said:2. So if someone shoots your dog, it is ethical to shoot their dog?
4. It is unethical because we agreed not to tell. It doesn't matter why they want it to be a secret. It only matters that we agreed to keep it a secret.
#4 - By that sweeping logic, anyone who ever swore to keep secrets for a leader/politician/govt/bureaucracy/organization which later turned narcissistic, corrupt, or cruel committed an unethical act by revealing any secret that helped to reform or expose or bring down the offender. By that logic, all whistleblowers are unethical in your view. What a world we would live in if you ran it.
You are far too much of a simpleton to debate this Kahuna. I'm sure if we were to place you somewhere in time under dire circumstances, you would be very loyal soldier in the hands of a tyrant.
To everyone else, I say: The circumstances have changed. A line has been crossed. The 'top gift' is no longer a 'gift'. It is a means of manipulation. Test Mark Knighton by revealing it. After 4+ years of his ludicrous, unprofessional, embarrassing insanity, watching him do the same things over and over again is just, well, insanity - as the saying goes. So lets try something else. Push Mark Knighton in an unknown direction. Take something he currently uses to control people - a piece of information that would cause no harm to Waytools by revealing - and give it to the people who paid and never received anything. Lets see what happens.
alexonline said:A Gift, and a Principle. An ethical principle.When something is entirely new, there are those forward thinkers who see its potential before all others, who order immediately, and who are promised much. Like quick ownership of a new product.
colinng said:Asking people to reveal the gift is not ethical. Don't charge others of being "ethics-challenged" until you stop doing that yourself.
Ethics are relative. Not unlike time. You think your clock is ticking at the same speed as mine, because you can only see your perspective.
If Mark Knighton is going to use his position to act unethically, then it is ethical to take measures to counter that.
Mark Knighton cannot promise ship dates, and technical updates, and then go <poof> and mysteriously disappear without effecting some consequence.
The secret 'gift' printed on the box is simply a motivational tactic to facilitate the ongoing deception.
It is entirely ethical to reveal the 'gift' to the thousands of customers who gave Mark Knighton their money. It violates no trade or tech secret. The gift was an add-on promise to customers who already paid. The customers know what they paid for, so knowing what 'gift' Mark Knighton is going to throw in for their 'patience' is of no consequence.
Are you going to try to argue that it is unethical to reveal a secret solely on the basis that some individual wants that secret kept? You're not reasonable if you think that. Secrets, and promises to keep secrets, have context. At one point in time, the 'gift' may have been a positive thing. In 2015, shipping was just around the corner, so it was all in good fun to have a 'surprise gift'.
Here we are now, 4.5 years later. There is no happy positive 'surprise gift' anymore. There is just a secret, a tactic, piled on top of the countless deceptive broken commitments to deliver a product paid for long ago.
Treggers, it's okay to tell people what the 'gift' is. The thousands of customers who paid for their product have waited long enough and they deserve to know.
To ensure I am using a commonly accepted definition, here is one one from dictionary.com that several other dictionaries agree with:ethical
- pertaining to or dealing with morals or the principles of morality; pertaining to right and wrong in conduct.
- being in accordance with the rules or standards for right conduct or practice, especially the standards of a profession: It was not considered ethical for physicians to advertise.
- (of drugs) sold only upon medical prescription.
In the spirit of ColinNG, some arbitrary smug copy/paste advice:The Value of Meeting Deadlines in Business
Consistently meeting deadlines is a cornerstone of a successful small business’s reputation. Deadlines are essential, especially in businesses that work with specific time constraints, like publishing, delivery services and supply chains. Failure to meet deadlines on a regular basis can create a negative image of your business and cost you money.
When you continually deliver on time, you establish a reputation for being a reliable and dependable business. This can increase consumer confidence and help build a repeat customer base. Your customers know they can count on you to do what you say when you say you will do it. They’ll share this information with others, which can build your referral business.
Missed deadlines have the potential to be costly, particularly if they cause you to lose a customer or force you to pay extra for something like rush shipping or rush printing. Staying on deadline ensures you also stay on budget for projects, a financial benefit that can add up over time.
Meeting deadlines demonstrates a professional attitude toward the way you run your business and view your customers. A small business often has to provide superior levels of service to compete with its larger counterparts, and being reliable and customer-focused can help achieve that goal.
In a small-business environment, there is often interconnectivity and overlap between positions and departments. If one team member fails to meet a deadline, it can create a domino effect in which colleagues and co-workers subsequently are faced with missing their own deadlines or working in excess to make up for someone else's slack. Meeting deadlines shows a respect for your own work product as well as for the time of your co-workers.
Missed deadlines are usually a sign of poor time management. If this is the case in your small business, it's an indication of deeper problems related to ineffective project planning, use of time and resources and scheduling. If your staff regularly misses deadlines, conduct an internal time management audit and look for ways to eliminate time-wasters and keep projects, work schedules and orders on track.
Set reasonable deadlines to ensure employees don’t look for excuses to miss them. Publish deadlines, issue reminders of upcoming due dates and penalize repeat offenders. Pad deadlines if necessary to build in extra time, but don’t tell employees about this sleight-of-of-hand, or they'll always assume they have extra time.
Management Mistakes 101: Managing Missed Deadlines
To Sum Up…
Individuals who consistently miss deadlines are detrimental to the health of your team and organisational growth. The only solution for managers is to address the problem head on. [a serious problem if the person as issue is the manager] If we want to avoid cynicism within the team, reductions in individual morale, increases in employee turnover, and reduced organisational performance, we need to overcome our personal distaste for difficult conversations and provide employees with the feedback they need to improve. [impossible if the CEO is the issue]
Why deadlines work
Deadlines work because they force critical thinking by adding a constraint. When a deadline is set on a project, magical things happen.
45 Bosses Explain How to Be Late1. Tell the Truth2. Admit it in Advance3. Drop the Excuses4. Give Helpful Details5. Accept Responsibility6. Stop Disturbing Others Upon Your Arrival7. Don't Kiss Up8. Do Something About It9. Apologize10. Help to Plan Accordingly11. Be Honest, Even if You're Just Hungover12. Send Over Important Documents13. Share What You Learned14. Make up for Lost Time15. Give Your Boss FOMO16. Stop Wasting More Time17. Give an Accurate ETA18. Communicate for Coverage19. Prove That it Won't Be an Ongoing Issue20. Don't Lie Because You Feel Ashamed21. Communicate22. Take Initiative22. Quit Justifying and Just Get to Work23. Tell a Good Story24. Ask for Help25. Make a Plan for the Future26. Send a Quick Ping27. Try Harder28. Don't Waste Your Energy by Getting Worked up over It29. Don't Exploit Your Employer's Trust30. Recognize the Impact of Your Tardiness31. Set an Earlier Alarm32. Prepare Your Lunch the Night Before33. Have an Easier Breakfast34. Check Your Gas Tank Before You Have to Hit the Road35. Check the Weather in the Morning36. Check for Traffic37. Get to Bed Earlier38. Live a Healthier Lifestyle39. Don't Wait to Tell Your Boss You're Late Until After You're Late40. Don't Wait to Tell Your Team You're Late Until After You're Late41. Don't Expect Your Boss to Inform Your Team for You42. Don't Expect Your Team to Inform Your Boss for You43. Don't Ask Someone to Lie for You44. Don't Give up Altogether45. Don't Come Running in all Frazzled
- Teams are forced to work backwards from launch — A deadline forces your team to confront what must exist at launch, and the by-product of that is a realistic list of all the work to be done.
- Teams must prioritize ruthlessly — Since you have a list of what needs to get done and a fixed time to do it, teams are forced to decide how much time they’re willing to allocate to each item.
- Teams know if they’re on pace — open ended projects mean you can never know if you’re progressing too slow or fast. A deadline creates a benchmark.
- Teams combat human nature — People aren’t lazy but they don’t default to urgency either. Parkinson’s law explains this best, “work expands so as to fill the time available for its completion.”
- Teams are compelled to ship faster than they otherwise would have — most teams dream of their product in a perfect end-state, and sometimes that dream can create an inertia to ship. Deadlines combat this by providing an externality to help teams justify shipping an imperfect product.
alexonline said:In any case, given MK's deviousness, I wonder if the various gifts each Tregger has been told are all different, simply so MK knows who spilled which bean where, and whether beanz meanz Heinz or something odiferously else?
Personally, I doubt it, doing so would take an even greater level of deviousness and fore planning than I think MK would stoop to, but he's stooped pretty low as it is, so who knows.
I think Mark's deviousness, substantial though it may be, is limited by his intellect. (Am I complimenting him there? I'm not sure.) His plan was simply to sell a product that didn't exist, and let it play out. Not an original idea. Just a run of the mill scam that plenty of little owner/operator companies with zero business acumen inflict upon their customers these days.
The important distinction between a Kickstarter or Indiegogo and what Mark has done, is that most KS/IG campaigns are generally quite honest at the outset: we haven't built this yet, it doesn't work yet, we're not sure we even know how to build it, if you buy it you may never receive it, and so on. You can't really complain when a KS burns you under those terms.
What Mark has done is quite the opposite. He built a lie, one deceptive layer at a time, and for 4+ years he has just kept doubling down with the same lie over and over again. It will ready next week. Next Month. Next Summer. Next Fall.
He's so used to getting away with the lies, now he doesn't even bother to cover the latest lie with a new lie. He just goes MIA, as he did after a quick succession of lies following the May 2019 'update' failure. He knows that we know he's a liar. The jig is up. He no longer cares.
That is why I think revealing the 'gift' at this point is well within ethical bounds and perfectly justifiable. The customers who lent Mark Knighton their money deserve some consideration.