It's quite clear this guy doesn't understand bus multipliers. Is Apple gonna move back to 100MHz bus speed? [where is that skeptical icon??]</strong><hr></blockquote>
What's so unbeleivable? He says the existing PM line will be speed bumped, which we all agree on. And G5s will be announced, not on sale.
I think there could and should be two lines of powermac. I use a G4 500 for DTP and to be honest its all I need for now. I don't fancy paying through the nose for anything quicker.
The speed freaks who all complain about MHz will be able to buy the G5 when it comes, and ordinary companies can buy the G4s.
This is something I've believed for a while -- that there is room for consumer Macs, Powermacs, and above that, "ProMacs" or "Supermacs."
I really do believe that there's a market for $4-6000 extremely high-end machines -- maybe a model tailored to 3d, a Photoshop monster, and a digital AV machine.
I know people who think nothing of spending $20k for Pro Tools gear to make their $2500 Powermac process audio faster. Give them the option of a $6000 machine that will run those processes natively on the CPUs, and people will snap them up. They won't sell in iMac or iBook numbers, but that's not the point. Apple would gain back the distinction fo being truly the "pro's computer," and they could earn a solid profit on these high-end machines.
That is.... IF the G5 is even really going to be ready by March as this person says. But actually, the same thing could be accomplished by quad (or more) multi-processor machines, new bus/memory technology, and much faster hard drives.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Two remarks:
1. If they want to release a 5000- 6000$ überPowerMac, Apple better make sure the current powermacs (at 3500$) are worthy of that name. That's my view. They'd better drop the current powermacs at half the price and let something better fill their slot.
2. Is protools even dual-processor and altivec-aware? I don't think so. Why should it be, I mean they make a lot of money on the add-on cards, no? I betcha they'd be pissed if Aple came out with a machine that suddenly made all their expensive add-on stuff redundant.
Apple knows if next week they only release 1000Mhz PowerMacs everyone will be really upset. So they tell us all that the G5 will be just around the corner. Then they put duals across the existing line and lower prices. Apple knows that they don't have huge numbers or G5s and therefore wants to have people order them now. This way it doesn't look like they can't make enough of them. It just looks like they are not out yet. The existing PM becomes a proconsumer machine and the G5 which will have a completely new case and will become the professional machine. This makes makes since to me and my magic 8 ball. Lets just put it this way I would not be surprised if this comes to pass.
Okay. I think it is very unlikely that what is mentioned in the beginning of this thread will happen. BUT..I do think there is the very slightest possibility that this may happen.
Doesn't Intel do something like this or did something like this with the Pentiums? Announced faster PIII chips and that the P4 would be coming out on so and so date and orders are being taken now?
Is protools even dual-processor and altivec-aware? I don't think so. Why should it be, I mean they make a lot of money on the add-on cards, no? I betcha they'd be pissed if Aple came out with a machine that suddenly made all their expensive add-on stuff redundant.
But we'll see.</strong><hr></blockquote>
As far as Digidesign is concerned, it's not in their interest to make native processes faster on existing technology. They WANT their pro customers to think "Well, I can't run all the EQs and reverbs that I want on 24 tracks using native processing, so I'd better spend a fortune on Mix Farm cards so I can do it with outboard DSP."
As soon as the fastest Mac available can run multiple processes, in real time, on 16-24 tracks of high-res digital audio, Digidesign is done for.
In fact, we're already seeing a variation on the same thing with Avid, which is Digidesign's parent company. People can buy real time video processing cards and do their editing on a PC, or buy FCP 3 and run real time effects natively on their G4, so why do people want to spend huge money to buy Avid hardware?
It will hurt companies like Digi and Avid when this happens, but it would really benefit Apple to have a machine in that higher ($5-6k) price range that truly had massive processing power. If they can't do it with 2 CPUs, they should try quad-processor machines on high-speed bus/memory motherboards.
2. Is protools even dual-processor and altivec-aware? I don't think so. Why should it be, I mean they make a lot of money on the add-on cards, no? I betcha they'd be pissed if Aple came out with a machine that suddenly made all their expensive add-on stuff redundant.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Making old add-in hardware obsolete certainly won't stop Apple from introducing a much faster new computer! I doubt ProTools would care, either. Margins on software are generally much better than on hardware, production is trivial, and patches are a lot easier..
<strong>G5 has a 400 MHz bus (quad pumped) so his speeds of 800, 1000, 1200 make absolute perfect sense.</strong><hr></blockquote>
What RAM would this use then? Wouldn't have to be RAMBUS, which operates at 400MHz (100MHz x4)? Currently DDR SDRAM runs at 266MHz (133MHz x2), and upcoming 333MHz DDR is 166.5MHz x2.
What RAM would this use then? Wouldn't have to be RAMBUS, which operates at 400MHz (100MHz x4)? Currently DDR SDRAM runs at 266MHz (133MHz x2), and upcoming 333MHz DDR is 166.5MHz x2.</strong><hr></blockquote>
It is possible to run memory asynchronously (not at same clockspeed) as the front side bus. So that could be a possibility if the aforementioned information is correct.
Apple knows if next week they only release 1000Mhz PowerMacs everyone will be really upset. So they tell us all that the G5 will be just around the corner. Then they put duals across the existing line and lower prices. Apple knows that they don't have huge numbers or G5s and therefore wants to have people order them now. This way it doesn't look like they can't make enough of them. It just looks like they are not out yet. The existing PM becomes a proconsumer machine and the G5 which will have a completely new case and will become the professional machine. This makes makes since to me and my magic 8 ball. Lets just put it this way I would not be surprised if this comes to pass. </strong><hr></blockquote>
:nod:
Exactly, Apple knows what happened at the last July Expo. They didn't produce, and many consumers gave them hell for it. Apple can't stand to do that again without making a large number of their users jump ship because they just can't trust Apple to keep up with the x86 guys.
By releasing these *crappy* G4s and announcing the G5s as well as taking preorders on them in March it softens the blow of the crappy Apollos. If Apple just announces 867-1ghz apollo models...well, you know what's going to happen.
Exactly, Apple knows what happened at the last July Expo. They didn't produce, and many consumers gave them hell for it. Apple can't stand to do that again without making a large number of their users jump ship because they just can't trust Apple to keep up with the x86 guys.
By releasing these *crappy* G4s and announcing the G5s as well as taking preorders on them in March it softens the blow of the crappy Apollos. If Apple just announces 867-1ghz apollo models...well, you know what's going to happen.</strong><hr></blockquote>
1. If they want to release a 5000- 6000$ überPowerMac, Apple better make sure the current powermacs (at 3500$) are worthy of that name. That's my view. They'd better drop the current powermacs at half the price and let something better fill their slot.
What do you want? Pro Tools is dsp based, TOTALLY.
They just neede th Mac for hosting the chips. That`s all.
2. Is protools even dual-processor and altivec-aware? I don't think so. Why should it be, I mean they make a lot of money on the add-on cards, no? I betcha they'd be pissed if Aple came out with a machine that suddenly made all their expensive add-on stuff redundant.
who even said that the apollo would be intro'ed?</strong><hr></blockquote>
Exactly, these are QS G4s clocked up to their max, nothing more.
This is a ploy to buy some time to get the G5s ready. This is great news for the G5. If 1.2ghz Apollos had come out then that wouldv'e meant the G5s were further off.
Comments
<strong>
It's quite clear this guy doesn't understand bus multipliers. Is Apple gonna move back to 100MHz bus speed? [where is that skeptical icon??]</strong><hr></blockquote>
No, 200MHz.
I think there could and should be two lines of powermac. I use a G4 500 for DTP and to be honest its all I need for now. I don't fancy paying through the nose for anything quicker.
The speed freaks who all complain about MHz will be able to buy the G5 when it comes, and ordinary companies can buy the G4s.
At this point seeing all the reports about 800,933 and 1 GHz DP I don't care if they release G5s at a premium.
You're due Apple.
Also I'm sending Steve an email telling him how much of a joke it will be if they release those 1 GHz machines on Tuesday.
But Apple has don'e similar things before.
remember teh G4 being introduced as Yikes!
It was a G3 Yosemite with graphite case and G4 chip, everything else was the same. The REAL G4 Sawtooth came shortly after.
It wouldn't be the first time Apple gave us a piece of candy in expectation of the big cake.
G-News
<strong>
This is something I've believed for a while -- that there is room for consumer Macs, Powermacs, and above that, "ProMacs" or "Supermacs."
I really do believe that there's a market for $4-6000 extremely high-end machines -- maybe a model tailored to 3d, a Photoshop monster, and a digital AV machine.
I know people who think nothing of spending $20k for Pro Tools gear to make their $2500 Powermac process audio faster. Give them the option of a $6000 machine that will run those processes natively on the CPUs, and people will snap them up. They won't sell in iMac or iBook numbers, but that's not the point. Apple would gain back the distinction fo being truly the "pro's computer," and they could earn a solid profit on these high-end machines.
That is.... IF the G5 is even really going to be ready by March as this person says. But actually, the same thing could be accomplished by quad (or more) multi-processor machines, new bus/memory technology, and much faster hard drives.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Two remarks:
1. If they want to release a 5000- 6000$ überPowerMac, Apple better make sure the current powermacs (at 3500$) are worthy of that name. That's my view. They'd better drop the current powermacs at half the price and let something better fill their slot.
2. Is protools even dual-processor and altivec-aware? I don't think so. Why should it be, I mean they make a lot of money on the add-on cards, no? I betcha they'd be pissed if Aple came out with a machine that suddenly made all their expensive add-on stuff redundant.
But we'll see.
Apple knows if next week they only release 1000Mhz PowerMacs everyone will be really upset. So they tell us all that the G5 will be just around the corner. Then they put duals across the existing line and lower prices. Apple knows that they don't have huge numbers or G5s and therefore wants to have people order them now. This way it doesn't look like they can't make enough of them. It just looks like they are not out yet. The existing PM becomes a proconsumer machine and the G5 which will have a completely new case and will become the professional machine. This makes makes since to me and my magic 8 ball. Lets just put it this way I would not be surprised if this comes to pass.
Doesn't Intel do something like this or did something like this with the Pentiums? Announced faster PIII chips and that the P4 would be coming out on so and so date and orders are being taken now?
<strong>
Is protools even dual-processor and altivec-aware? I don't think so. Why should it be, I mean they make a lot of money on the add-on cards, no? I betcha they'd be pissed if Aple came out with a machine that suddenly made all their expensive add-on stuff redundant.
But we'll see.</strong><hr></blockquote>
As far as Digidesign is concerned, it's not in their interest to make native processes faster on existing technology. They WANT their pro customers to think "Well, I can't run all the EQs and reverbs that I want on 24 tracks using native processing, so I'd better spend a fortune on Mix Farm cards so I can do it with outboard DSP."
As soon as the fastest Mac available can run multiple processes, in real time, on 16-24 tracks of high-res digital audio, Digidesign is done for.
In fact, we're already seeing a variation on the same thing with Avid, which is Digidesign's parent company. People can buy real time video processing cards and do their editing on a PC, or buy FCP 3 and run real time effects natively on their G4, so why do people want to spend huge money to buy Avid hardware?
It will hurt companies like Digi and Avid when this happens, but it would really benefit Apple to have a machine in that higher ($5-6k) price range that truly had massive processing power. If they can't do it with 2 CPUs, they should try quad-processor machines on high-speed bus/memory motherboards.
<strong>
2. Is protools even dual-processor and altivec-aware? I don't think so. Why should it be, I mean they make a lot of money on the add-on cards, no? I betcha they'd be pissed if Aple came out with a machine that suddenly made all their expensive add-on stuff redundant.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Making old add-in hardware obsolete certainly won't stop Apple from introducing a much faster new computer! I doubt ProTools would care, either. Margins on software are generally much better than on hardware, production is trivial, and patches are a lot easier..
[ 01-19-2002: Message edited by: Programmer ]</p>
<strong>Well, if Apple does ship 2 sets of PM towers you can bet that the G5 systems will be at a premium price.</strong><hr></blockquote>
If they are twice as fast as a dual athlon, then it wouldn't surprise me that these could be 8 - 12,000 dollars and worth it.
I remember pricing out some systems in the mid to late 80s that could easily approach $10,000. And that was with a school/edu discount.
I hope they do price them high and have lower priced G4 Apollos to offer as well.
<strong>G5 has a 400 MHz bus (quad pumped) so his speeds of 800, 1000, 1200 make absolute perfect sense.</strong><hr></blockquote>
What RAM would this use then? Wouldn't have to be RAMBUS, which operates at 400MHz (100MHz x4)? Currently DDR SDRAM runs at 266MHz (133MHz x2), and upcoming 333MHz DDR is 166.5MHz x2.
<strong>
What RAM would this use then? Wouldn't have to be RAMBUS, which operates at 400MHz (100MHz x4)? Currently DDR SDRAM runs at 266MHz (133MHz x2), and upcoming 333MHz DDR is 166.5MHz x2.</strong><hr></blockquote>
It is possible to run memory asynchronously (not at same clockspeed) as the front side bus. So that could be a possibility if the aforementioned information is correct.
<strong>Idea:
Apple knows if next week they only release 1000Mhz PowerMacs everyone will be really upset. So they tell us all that the G5 will be just around the corner. Then they put duals across the existing line and lower prices. Apple knows that they don't have huge numbers or G5s and therefore wants to have people order them now. This way it doesn't look like they can't make enough of them. It just looks like they are not out yet. The existing PM becomes a proconsumer machine and the G5 which will have a completely new case and will become the professional machine. This makes makes since to me and my magic 8 ball. Lets just put it this way I would not be surprised if this comes to pass.
:nod:
Exactly, Apple knows what happened at the last July Expo. They didn't produce, and many consumers gave them hell for it. Apple can't stand to do that again without making a large number of their users jump ship because they just can't trust Apple to keep up with the x86 guys.
By releasing these *crappy* G4s and announcing the G5s as well as taking preorders on them in March it softens the blow of the crappy Apollos. If Apple just announces 867-1ghz apollo models...well, you know what's going to happen.
<strong>
:nod:
Exactly, Apple knows what happened at the last July Expo. They didn't produce, and many consumers gave them hell for it. Apple can't stand to do that again without making a large number of their users jump ship because they just can't trust Apple to keep up with the x86 guys.
By releasing these *crappy* G4s and announcing the G5s as well as taking preorders on them in March it softens the blow of the crappy Apollos. If Apple just announces 867-1ghz apollo models...well, you know what's going to happen.</strong><hr></blockquote>
who even said that the apollo would be intro'ed?
<strong>
Two remarks:
1. If they want to release a 5000- 6000$ überPowerMac, Apple better make sure the current powermacs (at 3500$) are worthy of that name. That's my view. They'd better drop the current powermacs at half the price and let something better fill their slot.
What do you want? Pro Tools is dsp based, TOTALLY.
They just neede th Mac for hosting the chips. That`s all.
2. Is protools even dual-processor and altivec-aware? I don't think so. Why should it be, I mean they make a lot of money on the add-on cards, no? I betcha they'd be pissed if Aple came out with a machine that suddenly made all their expensive add-on stuff redundant.
But we'll see.</strong><hr></blockquote>
<strong>
who even said that the apollo would be intro'ed?</strong><hr></blockquote>
I hope for Apple's sake that they do. If they just push lame-o regular g4s with 133 buses...
:eek:
<strong>
who even said that the apollo would be intro'ed?</strong><hr></blockquote>
Exactly, these are QS G4s clocked up to their max, nothing more.
This is a ploy to buy some time to get the G5s ready. This is great news for the G5. If 1.2ghz Apollos had come out then that wouldv'e meant the G5s were further off.