Ok that's too far. You know how many lives the bunny hill has claimed? It's not something to be taken lightly. As soon as you lose your fear and respect of it, it'll wrap you around a tree like it was nobody's business.
Actually, this is true.
It's still an incline and the tow-lift can be deadly.
While I don't see myself getting a ZuneHD anytime soon, I'm glad it exists and I really hope it does well, if only to create some competition for the Touch. The ZuneHD does a number of things I really wish the Touch did, especially wireless syncing, the HDMI out, and the Zune Pass. The latter might not be an option for Apple anymore as the record labels seem to want to level the playing field among music download stores rather than help Apple solidify their dominance, but honestly the Touch could and should have had wireless syncing for a while now at the very least, if not the whole iPod line.
The HDMI out on the ZuneHD and the ability to playback movies with nothing but a ZuneHD, a USB cable and my HDTV would be enough to get me to buy one if it wasn't assuredly limited to Microsoft's stupid proprietary formats and wouldn't work for things like divx and mkv containers with multiple codec support.
Honestly, this is something Sony should be focusing on. With their lack of allegiance to one file type or another, they could corner a nice chunk of the market with a media player with that kind of flexibility and some better software.
They had OLED in 2006? They had radioHD in 2006? They had 720p HD playback in 2006?What planet's website have you been reading?
Really? You're going to go there? Hey everybody, remember
CUT AND PASTE! MMS! REMOVABLE BATTERY! MULTITASKING! BLUETOOTH FOR MY HEADPHONES! REAL KEYBOARD! MORE BUTTONS!
You know, all the things that made the iPhone/Touch "fail"? That needed to be LOL'ed about because "my XYZ has had that for ten years"?
So MS makes its "competitor" to the Touch and all of a sudden none of that stuff matters anymore because, it focuses on the music, man! Why do want all that Touch clutter crap?
The Zune beats the Nano, except for size and cost. The Zune competes with the Nano. The Zune has almost nothing to do with the Touch.
Lots of Zune hysterics were absolutely sure the HD was going to totally have an SDK and an app store and some massively cool titles right out of the gate and just wait, just you wait.
They're hoping we're all just forgetting that, and abruptly changing gears to talk about what a focused device for music the Zune is, and OLED, and, um, radio, and did I mention OLED?
The Zune has been crippled by the Windows Mobile division, pure and simple. They don't want the Zune stealing their thunder, and they have pride of place within MS. The Zune could have been a touch competitor if MS didn't have such a Byzantine internal organization, but they do, and their mobile offerings are scattered across several divisions that don't cooperate.
The Zune is a single purpose device in a multipurpose world. All the fun animated transitions and OLED in the world can't change that. MS has made the best music player of 2006, no doubt.
Funny how everybody praises the Zune UI... but I don't like it. I don't like the list view menu... I prefer the way Apple does it on the iPod Touch... I actually enjoy the cover flow view and even that "list view" as well.
The features that the Zune has over the iPod touch are of little use to me...
HD Video via the Dock: Don't need my portable player to produce HD if I have to carry around a dock to do it. Makes HD a little less portable. I have plenty of devices attached to my TV that play HD that this is a useless feature for me.
HD Radio: I only listen to the Regular Guys morning show on the radio here... I guess FM wouldn't be a bad idea in an iPod because I could take my old Sony Walkman home from work... so, radio is pretty useless to me for music but could eliminate a device. However, that is not enough for me to move to a Zune.
Subscription Music: While this might be neat, I have never dabbled in Napster, Rhapsody, or any of the other subscription services... so, this is not a selling point to me.
But the one feature that it doesn't have, is the one "must-have."
Mac Support: I do have a Windows 7 machine (RC) in my house and wil be installing Win 7 once it is out on Oct 22, but all of my media is on my iMac and I don't foresee that changing. With iTunes ability to stream from one machine to another, there is little incentive to copy all of the songs to another machine and into a different media manager.
That being said, I have no reason to upgrade to the 3rd gen iPod Touch... perhaps if it had a camera, I would have. I just hope Apple doesn't ignore the Zune as it is a worthy competitor to the Touch on the PC side of things.
Really? You're going to go there? Hey everybody, remember
CUT AND PASTE! MMS! REMOVABLE BATTERY! MULTITASKING! BLUETOOTH FOR MY HEADPHONES! REAL KEYBOARD! MORE BUTTONS!
You know, all the things that made the iPhone/Touch "fail"? That needed to be LOL'ed about because "my XYZ has had that for ten years"?
So MS makes its "competitor" to the Touch and all of a sudden none of that stuff matters anymore because, it focuses on the music, man! Why do want all that Touch clutter crap?
The Zune beats the Nano, except for size and cost. The Zune competes with the Nano. The Zune has almost nothing to do with the Touch.
Lots of Zune hysterics were absolutely sure the HD was going to totally have an SDK and an app store and some massively cool titles right out of the gate and just wait, just you wait.
They're hoping we're all just forgetting that, and abruptly changing gears to talk about what a focused device for music the Zune is, and OLED, and, um, radio, and did I mention OLED?
The Zune has been crippled by the Windows Mobile division, pure and simple. They don't want the Zune stealing their thunder, and they have pride of place within MS. The Zune could have been a touch competitor if MS didn't have such a Byzantine internal organization, but they do, and their mobile offerings are scattered across several divisions that don't cooperate.
The Zune is a single purpose device in a multipurpose world. All the fun animated transitions and OLED in the world can't change that. MS has made the best music player of 2006, no doubt.
The point remains: People like you (maybe not necessarily you exactly) defended the iphone/touch with the excuse that they would implement those features eventually. In the end, both sides are a bit hypocritical. The same happened with the palm pre. It's is coming along slowly but surely, and I think this zune hd will do the same. Anyone who wants to make the excuse that it'll take time for features to get to the device must SURELY be willing to admit it was acceptable for the iphone/touch to take that route.
Also, how do you know so much about the inner workings of microsoft's mobile platform divisions? I pretty much read up on anything that has to do with windows mobile constantly, and never has this sort of complaint surfaced. I guess the amount of time it takes them to give us an update is telling.
I saw engadget's review of this thing. Apps & webpages take forever to load, they had problems with the accelerometer & screen flickering, and to top it off, people are reporting lack of 64bit XP support with the desktop software. I personally think it's pathetic that there's that many issues with it, and that so much was left out. On one hand, they admit their focus was on multimedia, but on the other hand, they admit it's supposed to be an ipod touch competitor, which is capable of being more than a media player.
HD is a misnomer - you cannot watch movies in 720p on the Zune. In fact the iPod touch screen is higher resolution. For $90 you can buy a dock from which you can plug in your Zune to your TV and playback 720p video. Of course that assumes you will load large movies onto your Zune. The Tegra SOC is actually a Portal Player chip that Nvidia acquired when they bought Portal Player. Apple dumped portal player years ago and the company almost went under.
Apparently, the iPod Touch can play back 720p as well.
App Store vs. Windows Markeplace (or is it Zune Pass, Or Zune Market, or . . . )
Apple has over 75,000 apps for the Touch (Zune HD has less than ten apps) millions of songs, tv shows and movies - far more in every category than MSFT. You can sync all of these to your Apple TV and watch HD movies on that. The iTunes model is far more established.
iTunes v. the subscription model: Why rent?
Unlimited music services have failed because users do not want to be stuck paying $15 per month for music they rent. These services have very few users, which is why Apple has never set it up for iTunes. If it were a succssful model, Apple would have implemented it long ago. If you really want such a service there is a Real App for the iPod that allows you to rent music from Real's very well established library.
Video killed the radio star
HD radio is a non factor. There a very few HD stations out there and even fewer worth listening to. Radio functionality has never been a significant factor here. Unless you stick one in a Nano with a videocamera. Then it's impressive due to the accompanying form factor.
The web done right
The iPod touch is based on iPhone platform. These devices are capable of a full web browsing experience.
Here today, gone tomorrow
The biggest reason to buy the iPod Touch vs. the Zune HD: How long will Zune be around? The Zune has lost money since day one. Its market share is 1% and MS sells these with very low margins because (a) they do not have the economy of scale Apple does (b) they end up selling these devices at big discounts because they cannot sell them otherwise. If they continue to lose money on this venture, management will eventually have to divest, leaving the users with apps, songs, movies etc., that are obsolete. In other words, the Zune HD is a poor investment. Would have been a good one in 2006. Sadly, MS can't travel back in time, even though the Zune HD makes it look like MS did just that.
Long term: Hey, where's everybody going?
It's all about device convergence now. MS arrived to the party when everyone's leaving. MS releases a crippled mediaplayer with no phone functionality, in the wake of a major decline in iPod sales over the last year. If Apple can't sell as many iPods - which offer a lot more than the Zune HD and dominate mindshare, then what can MS realistically expect?
[crap, it won't format right. how do i import a word table?]
Such rambling discussions here and everywhere on the web on the topic. No one has sorted it all out properly, not even all the pundits and tech sites. so here is a good start chart (hope formatting works):
Video Output 720p w/$90 dock\t No\t 576p w/$49 AV Cable
\t\t\t
Battery Life
(Music) 33hrs\t 24hrs\t 30hrs
Connector\t Wifi & USB Cable \t USB Cable\t USB Cable
\t\t\t
Price\t\t 8G: $149\t 8G: $199
\t 16G: $220\t 16G: $179\t
\t 32G: $290 \t\t 32G: $299
\t\t \t 64G: $399
\t\t\t
3rd Party
Accessories\t Very Few\t Hundreds\t Hundreds
When you lay it all out thoroughly like this, it is clear the Zune is really competing with the Nano. both are primarily PMP's with various extra features. beyond that the Nano is "dumb, " the Zune is "a little smart." but the Touch is in a whole other category - "superdupersmart."
6.5 will be out on Oct 6th I believe. The changes seem mentionable, but they still seem to want to recreate a desktop environment on a phone. They're wising up a bit on the finger friendly stuff, but there's plenty that's stylus oriented.
I was actually hoping he could link me to some ex-employee's rant or something though, not just make assumptions.
The point remains: People like you (maybe not necessarily you exactly) defended the iphone/touch with the excuse that they would implement those features eventually. In the end, both sides are a bit hypocritical. The same happened with the palm pre. It's is coming along slowly but surely, and I think this zune hd will do the same. Anyone who wants to make the excuse that it'll take time for features to get to the device must SURELY be willing to admit it was acceptable for the iphone/touch to take that route.
Also, how do you know so much about the inner workings of microsoft's mobile platform divisions? I pretty much read up on anything that has to do with windows mobile constantly, and never has this sort of complaint surfaced. I guess the amount of time it takes them to give us an update is telling.
I saw engadget's review of this thing. Apps & webpages take forever to load, they had problems with the accelerometer & screen flickering, and to top it off, people are reporting lack of 64bit XP support with the desktop software. I personally think it's pathetic that there's that many issues with it, and that so much was left out. On one hand, they admit their focus was on multimedia, but on the other hand, they admit it's supposed to be an ipod touch competitor, which is capable of being more than a media player.
Q: Will it open up for third-party app developers?
A: It's hard to say right now. If you look around the company at other places where things like this are important, Windows Mobile rises to the top. They have devices which are always connected, which make applications like maps really cool and important.
On a sometimes-connected device, what people are using them for are games. So what we didn't want to do was build two parallel app store experiences that didn't work together.
Right now our product roadmaps didn't line up perfectly for us to snap to what they're doing or vice versa. That being said, we know people want things like this on their devices so we're going to build them ourselves, they're going to be super high-quality, and they're going to be free.
Down the road if there's a way we can work with Windows Mobile or another group inside the company that's building an app store and take advantage of that, that's something we'll look into.
I've quoted this passage a couple of times now, but, again, this is the Zune Director of Marketing pretty much saying flat out that Zune development was constrained by the WinMo dev effort, that the two enterprises "didn't line up perfectly to snap to" one another, and that maybe somewhere down the road it would be cool if they could work together. Anyway, they'll "look into it."
Does that sound like a company that's planning to walk in the iPhone/Touch's footsteps and gradually expand on the Zune platform to make it their singular mobile offering? If not, how does the Zune camp and the WinMo camp divvy up the turf? Like I say, a mess, and a mess that looks to cripple MS's competitiveness in this space.
I don't know, maybe the Zune people arm themselves and attack the WinMo camp and kill them all and install their religion. But even then, the Zune OS doesn't appear to have been designed to scale well for a general purpose machine. All that "fun" jumbo typefaces and flippy-ness might get a little tiresome if you're trying to do something more than playback music and movies, or if you have more than a couple of apps.
For all the iPhone/Touch's shortcomings at launch, the framework was there, which is typical for Apple-- get the foundation right so you can add stuff in a coherent way down the line. The Zune is not built this way. It is built to be the most diverting PMP MS could muster, and in that it succeeds, I think. But while things like cut and paste and MMS and moving data between apps were implicit in the original iPhone/Touch, can anyone tell me how such things would be handled by the Zune? There's not even the outlines of that kind of functionality.
Just claiming that "the iPhone was missing stuff too, at launch, look what happened" is a bit of a category error, IMO. The Nano lacked those things too, but has not and is not likely to get them, because it isn't built that way.
I'm hoping someone will respond to this question, even someone from the site. I've counted on this site for years now for all the most up-to-date Apple news, and it's pretty much never failed me. In fact, the addition of the price matrix helped me to purchase my latest laptop at an insane price, so I'm indebted there as well. And while it's true that AI has a tendency to be biased towards Apple, sometimes even unreasonably or overly so, I just sort of keep that in mind whenever I read things on here. I do think there are times when it goes too far, but, as others point out, this is APPLE insider, so I guess they're entitled. (Although it should also be pointed out, I'm a *huge* Apple fanboy, and even I find it annoying after a while. It seems to have increased noticeably over the last year or two.)
But the article a few days back about the Zune's OLED screen is really bothering me. It's the first time I'd read anything like that about OLED, a technology which I was actually really excited about, and have been hoping will make it's way into Apple's products eventually. What bothers me is that it seems to be an outright fabrication; a lie, plain and simple. And that's something I've NEVER seen from this site. I could be wrong, but I haven't seen anything in any other reviews about the screen being problematic in outdoor or bright lighting, and if the situation is as bad as was depicted in that article, you would assume it would have come up SOMEWHERE.
Maybe I missed it? But if not, what was up with that article, because it seems to have been very deliberately misleading to the point of utter falsification. I'm very curious as to any opinions on this, because if that's what has happened, it represents a new low. Biased is one thing, but if I can't rely on the site to tell the truth (even if god forbid, they must admit to a halfway decent product from a competitor), that's another thing altogether.
And before I get attacked for this, please understand that I'm just posing a question here.
You want to unhook all the cables from you AppleTV and haul it over to your friend's house? Then take it back home and have to hook it all back up again?
You must have worked in the AV department in high shool.
Let's see, that would be one HDMI cable and a power cord. WIth the Zune it would be what? HDMI cable, dock, and presumably a power adapter for the dock. Either way I don't see much difference.
I think DVD and Blue Ray win that one, assuming of course that the friend in question has a player so you don't have to bring that.
I'm hoping someone will respond to this question, even someone from the site. I've counted on this site for years now for all the most up-to-date Apple news, and it's pretty much never failed me. In fact, the addition of the price matrix helped me to purchase my latest laptop at an insane price, so I'm indebted there as well. And while it's true that AI has a tendency to be biased towards Apple, sometimes even unreasonably or overly so, I just sort of keep that in mind whenever I read things on here. I do think there are times when it goes too far, but, as others point out, this is APPLE insider, so I guess they're entitled. (Although it should also be pointed out, I'm a *huge* Apple fanboy, and even I find it annoying after a while. It seems to have increased noticeably over the last year or two.)
But the article a few days back about the Zune's OLED screen is really bothering me. It's the first time I'd read anything like that about OLED, a technology which I was actually really excited about, and have been hoping will make it's way into Apple's products eventually. What bothers me is that it seems to be an outright fabrication; a lie, plain and simple. And that's something I've NEVER seen from this site. I could be wrong, but I haven't seen anything in any other reviews about the screen being problematic in outdoor or bright lighting, and if the situation is as bad as was depicted in that article, you would assume it would have come up SOMEWHERE.
Maybe I missed it? But if not, what was up with that article, because it seems to have been very deliberately misleading to the point of utter falsification. I'm very curious as to any opinions on this, because if that's what has happened, it represents a new low. Biased is one thing, but if I can't rely on the site to tell the truth (even if god forbid, they must admit to a halfway decent product from a competitor), that's another thing altogether.
And before I get attacked for this, please understand that I'm just posing a question here.
Except for the "movie night at a friend's house", the AppleTV already does this. But yes, it would make for a cool feature on the iPod Touch and/or iPhone.
Does anyone know why Apple took away the ability for iPhone to output video? They used to sell a couple video out composite and component cables as did a number of third parties. All gone now since OS 3.0.
[crap, it won't format right. how do i import a word table?]
Such rambling discussions here and everywhere on the web on the topic. No one has sorted it all out properly, not even all the pundits and tech sites. so here is a good start chart (hope formatting works):
Video Output 720p w/$90 dock\t No\t 576p w/$49 AV Cable
\t\t\t
Battery Life
(Music) 33hrs\t 24hrs\t 30hrs
Connector\t Wifi & USB Cable \t USB Cable\t USB Cable
\t\t\t
Price\t\t 8G: $149\t 8G: $199
\t 16G: $220\t 16G: $179\t
\t 32G: $290 \t\t 32G: $299
\t\t \t 64G: $399
\t\t\t
3rd Party
Accessories\t Very Few\t Hundreds\t Hundreds
When you lay it all out thoroughly like this, it is clear the Zune is really competing with the Nano. both are primarily PMP's with various extra features. beyond that the Nano is "dumb, " the Zune is "a little smart." but the Touch is in a whole other category - "superdupersmart."
Really? You're going to go there? Hey everybody, remember
CUT AND PASTE! MMS! REMOVABLE BATTERY! MULTITASKING! BLUETOOTH FOR MY HEADPHONES! REAL KEYBOARD! MORE BUTTONS!
You know, all the things that made the iPhone/Touch "fail"? That needed to be LOL'ed about because "my XYZ has had that for ten years"?
So MS makes its "competitor" to the Touch and all of a sudden none of that stuff matters anymore because, it focuses on the music, man! Why do want all that Touch clutter crap?
The Zune beats the Nano, except for size and cost. The Zune competes with the Nano. The Zune has almost nothing to do with the Touch.
Lots of Zune hysterics were absolutely sure the HD was going to totally have an SDK and an app store and some massively cool titles right out of the gate and just wait, just you wait.
They're hoping we're all just forgetting that, and abruptly changing gears to talk about what a focused device for music the Zune is, and OLED, and, um, radio, and did I mention OLED?
The Zune has been crippled by the Windows Mobile division, pure and simple. They don't want the Zune stealing their thunder, and they have pride of place within MS. The Zune could have been a touch competitor if MS didn't have such a Byzantine internal organization, but they do, and their mobile offerings are scattered across several divisions that don't cooperate.
The Zune is a single purpose device in a multipurpose world. All the fun animated transitions and OLED in the world can't change that. MS has made the best music player of 2006, no doubt.
And all those things came to fruition- except the battery. So like what is your point? I spoke and Apple listened.
The Zune is the Zune and should not be compared to the Touch anyway.
And isn;t the Classic a single purpose device in the manner of the Zune- it concentrates on the music. Isn't that Steve Job's mantra- "It's all about the music!"
I'm hoping someone will respond to this question, even someone from the site. I've counted on this site for years now for all the most up-to-date Apple news, and it's pretty much never failed me. In fact, the addition of the price matrix helped me to purchase my latest laptop at an insane price, so I'm indebted there as well. And while it's true that AI has a tendency to be biased towards Apple, sometimes even unreasonably or overly so, I just sort of keep that in mind whenever I read things on here. I do think there are times when it goes too far, but, as others point out, this is APPLE insider, so I guess they're entitled. (Although it should also be pointed out, I'm a *huge* Apple fanboy, and even I find it annoying after a while. It seems to have increased noticeably over the last year or two.)
But the article a few days back about the Zune's OLED screen is really bothering me. It's the first time I'd read anything like that about OLED, a technology which I was actually really excited about, and have been hoping will make it's way into Apple's products eventually. What bothers me is that it seems to be an outright fabrication; a lie, plain and simple. And that's something I've NEVER seen from this site. I could be wrong, but I haven't seen anything in any other reviews about the screen being problematic in outdoor or bright lighting, and if the situation is as bad as was depicted in that article, you would assume it would have come up SOMEWHERE.
Maybe I missed it? But if not, what was up with that article, because it seems to have been very deliberately misleading to the point of utter falsification. I'm very curious as to any opinions on this, because if that's what has happened, it represents a new low. Biased is one thing, but if I can't rely on the site to tell the truth (even if god forbid, they must admit to a halfway decent product from a competitor), that's another thing altogether.
And before I get attacked for this, please understand that I'm just posing a question here.
AI said a lot about the OLED screen, so I don't know what part you considered to be a lie, but if it was the daylight visibility part, I'll give you this from Engadgets review. As far as I can tell AI never lied, but instead placed a spotlight on the flaws while downplaying or ignoring the benefits (which really isn't much better).
And all those things came to fruition- except the battery. So like what is your point? I spoke and Apple listened.
The Zune is the Zune and should not be compared to the Touch anyway.
And isn;t the Classic a siongle prpose device music in the manner of the Zune- it concentrates on the music. Isn't that Steve Job's mantra- "It's all about the music!"
So . . . the Zune HD shouldn't be compared to the iPod Touch, even though MS (and everyone) clearly positioned it as a competitor to it?
Then what exactly is the Zune HD competing against? Or is it going to create its very own, unique segment of the handheld market?
So we now realize how behind MS is in the game, and three years too late, so let's just downgrade epxectations and shift gears, and re-categorize the Zune HD so it looks better. Hey no problem, sounds like an MS plan to me! Hey, if we put the Zune HD up against the obsolescent iPod Classic, then we've got a winner for sure!
Comments
Ok that's too far. You know how many lives the bunny hill has claimed? It's not something to be taken lightly. As soon as you lose your fear and respect of it, it'll wrap you around a tree like it was nobody's business.
Actually, this is true.
It's still an incline and the tow-lift can be deadly.
The HDMI out on the ZuneHD and the ability to playback movies with nothing but a ZuneHD, a USB cable and my HDTV would be enough to get me to buy one if it wasn't assuredly limited to Microsoft's stupid proprietary formats and wouldn't work for things like divx and mkv containers with multiple codec support.
Honestly, this is something Sony should be focusing on. With their lack of allegiance to one file type or another, they could corner a nice chunk of the market with a media player with that kind of flexibility and some better software.
They had OLED in 2006? They had radioHD in 2006? They had 720p HD playback in 2006?What planet's website have you been reading?
Really? You're going to go there? Hey everybody, remember
CUT AND PASTE! MMS! REMOVABLE BATTERY! MULTITASKING! BLUETOOTH FOR MY HEADPHONES! REAL KEYBOARD! MORE BUTTONS!
You know, all the things that made the iPhone/Touch "fail"? That needed to be LOL'ed about because "my XYZ has had that for ten years"?
So MS makes its "competitor" to the Touch and all of a sudden none of that stuff matters anymore because, it focuses on the music, man! Why do want all that Touch clutter crap?
The Zune beats the Nano, except for size and cost. The Zune competes with the Nano. The Zune has almost nothing to do with the Touch.
Lots of Zune hysterics were absolutely sure the HD was going to totally have an SDK and an app store and some massively cool titles right out of the gate and just wait, just you wait.
They're hoping we're all just forgetting that, and abruptly changing gears to talk about what a focused device for music the Zune is, and OLED, and, um, radio, and did I mention OLED?
The Zune has been crippled by the Windows Mobile division, pure and simple. They don't want the Zune stealing their thunder, and they have pride of place within MS. The Zune could have been a touch competitor if MS didn't have such a Byzantine internal organization, but they do, and their mobile offerings are scattered across several divisions that don't cooperate.
The Zune is a single purpose device in a multipurpose world. All the fun animated transitions and OLED in the world can't change that. MS has made the best music player of 2006, no doubt.
The features that the Zune has over the iPod touch are of little use to me...
HD Video via the Dock: Don't need my portable player to produce HD if I have to carry around a dock to do it. Makes HD a little less portable. I have plenty of devices attached to my TV that play HD that this is a useless feature for me.
HD Radio: I only listen to the Regular Guys morning show on the radio here... I guess FM wouldn't be a bad idea in an iPod because I could take my old Sony Walkman home from work... so, radio is pretty useless to me for music but could eliminate a device. However, that is not enough for me to move to a Zune.
Subscription Music: While this might be neat, I have never dabbled in Napster, Rhapsody, or any of the other subscription services... so, this is not a selling point to me.
But the one feature that it doesn't have, is the one "must-have."
Mac Support: I do have a Windows 7 machine (RC) in my house and wil be installing Win 7 once it is out on Oct 22, but all of my media is on my iMac and I don't foresee that changing. With iTunes ability to stream from one machine to another, there is little incentive to copy all of the songs to another machine and into a different media manager.
That being said, I have no reason to upgrade to the 3rd gen iPod Touch... perhaps if it had a camera, I would have. I just hope Apple doesn't ignore the Zune as it is a worthy competitor to the Touch on the PC side of things.
Really? You're going to go there? Hey everybody, remember
CUT AND PASTE! MMS! REMOVABLE BATTERY! MULTITASKING! BLUETOOTH FOR MY HEADPHONES! REAL KEYBOARD! MORE BUTTONS!
You know, all the things that made the iPhone/Touch "fail"? That needed to be LOL'ed about because "my XYZ has had that for ten years"?
So MS makes its "competitor" to the Touch and all of a sudden none of that stuff matters anymore because, it focuses on the music, man! Why do want all that Touch clutter crap?
The Zune beats the Nano, except for size and cost. The Zune competes with the Nano. The Zune has almost nothing to do with the Touch.
Lots of Zune hysterics were absolutely sure the HD was going to totally have an SDK and an app store and some massively cool titles right out of the gate and just wait, just you wait.
They're hoping we're all just forgetting that, and abruptly changing gears to talk about what a focused device for music the Zune is, and OLED, and, um, radio, and did I mention OLED?
The Zune has been crippled by the Windows Mobile division, pure and simple. They don't want the Zune stealing their thunder, and they have pride of place within MS. The Zune could have been a touch competitor if MS didn't have such a Byzantine internal organization, but they do, and their mobile offerings are scattered across several divisions that don't cooperate.
The Zune is a single purpose device in a multipurpose world. All the fun animated transitions and OLED in the world can't change that. MS has made the best music player of 2006, no doubt.
The point remains: People like you (maybe not necessarily you exactly) defended the iphone/touch with the excuse that they would implement those features eventually. In the end, both sides are a bit hypocritical. The same happened with the palm pre. It's is coming along slowly but surely, and I think this zune hd will do the same. Anyone who wants to make the excuse that it'll take time for features to get to the device must SURELY be willing to admit it was acceptable for the iphone/touch to take that route.
Also, how do you know so much about the inner workings of microsoft's mobile platform divisions? I pretty much read up on anything that has to do with windows mobile constantly, and never has this sort of complaint surfaced. I guess the amount of time it takes them to give us an update is telling.
I saw engadget's review of this thing. Apps & webpages take forever to load, they had problems with the accelerometer & screen flickering, and to top it off, people are reporting lack of 64bit XP support with the desktop software. I personally think it's pathetic that there's that many issues with it, and that so much was left out. On one hand, they admit their focus was on multimedia, but on the other hand, they admit it's supposed to be an ipod touch competitor, which is capable of being more than a media player.
HD is a misnomer - you cannot watch movies in 720p on the Zune. In fact the iPod touch screen is higher resolution. For $90 you can buy a dock from which you can plug in your Zune to your TV and playback 720p video. Of course that assumes you will load large movies onto your Zune. The Tegra SOC is actually a Portal Player chip that Nvidia acquired when they bought Portal Player. Apple dumped portal player years ago and the company almost went under.
Apparently, the iPod Touch can play back 720p as well.
App Store vs. Windows Markeplace (or is it Zune Pass, Or Zune Market, or . . . )
Apple has over 75,000 apps for the Touch (Zune HD has less than ten apps) millions of songs, tv shows and movies - far more in every category than MSFT. You can sync all of these to your Apple TV and watch HD movies on that. The iTunes model is far more established.
iTunes v. the subscription model: Why rent?
Unlimited music services have failed because users do not want to be stuck paying $15 per month for music they rent. These services have very few users, which is why Apple has never set it up for iTunes. If it were a succssful model, Apple would have implemented it long ago. If you really want such a service there is a Real App for the iPod that allows you to rent music from Real's very well established library.
Video killed the radio star
HD radio is a non factor. There a very few HD stations out there and even fewer worth listening to. Radio functionality has never been a significant factor here. Unless you stick one in a Nano with a videocamera. Then it's impressive due to the accompanying form factor.
The web done right
The iPod touch is based on iPhone platform. These devices are capable of a full web browsing experience.
Here today, gone tomorrow
The biggest reason to buy the iPod Touch vs. the Zune HD: How long will Zune be around? The Zune has lost money since day one. Its market share is 1% and MS sells these with very low margins because (a) they do not have the economy of scale Apple does (b) they end up selling these devices at big discounts because they cannot sell them otherwise. If they continue to lose money on this venture, management will eventually have to divest, leaving the users with apps, songs, movies etc., that are obsolete. In other words, the Zune HD is a poor investment. Would have been a good one in 2006. Sadly, MS can't travel back in time, even though the Zune HD makes it look like MS did just that.
Long term: Hey, where's everybody going?
It's all about device convergence now. MS arrived to the party when everyone's leaving. MS releases a crippled mediaplayer with no phone functionality, in the wake of a major decline in iPod sales over the last year. If Apple can't sell as many iPods - which offer a lot more than the Zune HD and dominate mindshare, then what can MS realistically expect?
Also, how do you know so much about the inner workings of microsoft's mobile platform divisions?
The results seem to speak for themselves. There's not a whole lot to know, anyway. It's a mess.
Such rambling discussions here and everywhere on the web on the topic. No one has sorted it all out properly, not even all the pundits and tech sites. so here is a good start chart (hope formatting works):
FUNCTION\t ZUNE\t iPod NANO\t iPod TOUCH
\t\t\t
Web Browser\t IE Mobile\t No\t Safari Mobile
E-Mail\t No\t No\t Apple Mail
Text\t No\t No\t Apple Messages
VOIP\t No\t No\t w/Skype App et al
Calendar\t No\t No\t Apple Calendar
Contacts\t No\t No\t Apple Contacts
Data Sync\t No\t No\t w/MobileMe
\t\t\t
Apps\t About 5\t None\t Tens of Thousands
Games\t About 5\t About 50\t Many Thousands
Standard Apps MS Maps\t No\t Apple/Google Maps
\t MS Weather\t No\t Apple/Yahoo Weather
\t MS Calculator\t No\t Apple Calculator
\t\t\t Apple Remote App
\t\t\t MobileMe iDisk App
\t\t\t
Camera\t No\t Video VGA\t No
Radio\t FM “HD”\t FM\t No
\t\t\t
Music Player Yes\t Yes\t Yes
Music Store\t Zune Marketplace\t iTunes\t iTunes
Home Server
Music
Streaming No\t No\t w/Simplify Music App
Music
Subscription Zune Pass\t No\t w/Rhapsody App
Earbud Sound
Quality\t Average\t Average\t Average
Sound Output
Quality\t ?\t ?\t ?
Speaker\t No\t No\t Yes
\t\t\t
Video/Movie
Player\t Yes\t Yes\t Yes
Screen Size\t 3.3”\t 2.2”\t 3.5”
Display
Resolution\t 480x272 ?dpi\t 376x240 204dpi\t 480x320 163dpi
Indoor PQ\t Excellent\t Very Good\t Very Good
Outdoor PQ\t ?\t ?\t ?
TV Streaming No\t No\t w/SlingMobile App
Video Output 720p w/$90 dock\t No\t 576p w/$49 AV Cable
\t\t\t
Battery Life
(Music) 33hrs\t 24hrs\t 30hrs
Connector\t Wifi & USB Cable \t USB Cable\t USB Cable
\t\t\t
Price\t\t 8G: $149\t 8G: $199
\t 16G: $220\t 16G: $179\t
\t 32G: $290 \t\t 32G: $299
\t\t \t 64G: $399
\t\t\t
3rd Party
Accessories\t Very Few\t Hundreds\t Hundreds
When you lay it all out thoroughly like this, it is clear the Zune is really competing with the Nano. both are primarily PMP's with various extra features. beyond that the Nano is "dumb, " the Zune is "a little smart." but the Touch is in a whole other category - "superdupersmart."
The results seem to speak for themselves.
No kidding. Hurry up on WM7 for Christ's sakes.
6.5 will be out on Oct 6th I believe. The changes seem mentionable, but they still seem to want to recreate a desktop environment on a phone. They're wising up a bit on the finger friendly stuff, but there's plenty that's stylus oriented.
I was actually hoping he could link me to some ex-employee's rant or something though, not just make assumptions.
I was actually hoping he could link me to some ex-employee's rant or something though,
I wouldn't mind reading such a thing, either! Would be interesting.
The point remains: People like you (maybe not necessarily you exactly) defended the iphone/touch with the excuse that they would implement those features eventually. In the end, both sides are a bit hypocritical. The same happened with the palm pre. It's is coming along slowly but surely, and I think this zune hd will do the same. Anyone who wants to make the excuse that it'll take time for features to get to the device must SURELY be willing to admit it was acceptable for the iphone/touch to take that route.
Also, how do you know so much about the inner workings of microsoft's mobile platform divisions? I pretty much read up on anything that has to do with windows mobile constantly, and never has this sort of complaint surfaced. I guess the amount of time it takes them to give us an update is telling.
I saw engadget's review of this thing. Apps & webpages take forever to load, they had problems with the accelerometer & screen flickering, and to top it off, people are reporting lack of 64bit XP support with the desktop software. I personally think it's pathetic that there's that many issues with it, and that so much was left out. On one hand, they admit their focus was on multimedia, but on the other hand, they admit it's supposed to be an ipod touch competitor, which is capable of being more than a media player.
This.
Q: Will it open up for third-party app developers?
A: It's hard to say right now. If you look around the company at other places where things like this are important, Windows Mobile rises to the top. They have devices which are always connected, which make applications like maps really cool and important.
On a sometimes-connected device, what people are using them for are games. So what we didn't want to do was build two parallel app store experiences that didn't work together.
Right now our product roadmaps didn't line up perfectly for us to snap to what they're doing or vice versa. That being said, we know people want things like this on their devices so we're going to build them ourselves, they're going to be super high-quality, and they're going to be free.
Down the road if there's a way we can work with Windows Mobile or another group inside the company that's building an app store and take advantage of that, that's something we'll look into.
I've quoted this passage a couple of times now, but, again, this is the Zune Director of Marketing pretty much saying flat out that Zune development was constrained by the WinMo dev effort, that the two enterprises "didn't line up perfectly to snap to" one another, and that maybe somewhere down the road it would be cool if they could work together. Anyway, they'll "look into it."
Does that sound like a company that's planning to walk in the iPhone/Touch's footsteps and gradually expand on the Zune platform to make it their singular mobile offering? If not, how does the Zune camp and the WinMo camp divvy up the turf? Like I say, a mess, and a mess that looks to cripple MS's competitiveness in this space.
I don't know, maybe the Zune people arm themselves and attack the WinMo camp and kill them all and install their religion. But even then, the Zune OS doesn't appear to have been designed to scale well for a general purpose machine. All that "fun" jumbo typefaces and flippy-ness might get a little tiresome if you're trying to do something more than playback music and movies, or if you have more than a couple of apps.
For all the iPhone/Touch's shortcomings at launch, the framework was there, which is typical for Apple-- get the foundation right so you can add stuff in a coherent way down the line. The Zune is not built this way. It is built to be the most diverting PMP MS could muster, and in that it succeeds, I think. But while things like cut and paste and MMS and moving data between apps were implicit in the original iPhone/Touch, can anyone tell me how such things would be handled by the Zune? There's not even the outlines of that kind of functionality.
Just claiming that "the iPhone was missing stuff too, at launch, look what happened" is a bit of a category error, IMO. The Nano lacked those things too, but has not and is not likely to get them, because it isn't built that way.
Try sticking an iTV in your pocket and taking it for a walk, and you might understand
Well, since I can't fit my 50" plasma TV in my pocket either, how is that supposed to be compelling?
But the article a few days back about the Zune's OLED screen is really bothering me. It's the first time I'd read anything like that about OLED, a technology which I was actually really excited about, and have been hoping will make it's way into Apple's products eventually. What bothers me is that it seems to be an outright fabrication; a lie, plain and simple. And that's something I've NEVER seen from this site. I could be wrong, but I haven't seen anything in any other reviews about the screen being problematic in outdoor or bright lighting, and if the situation is as bad as was depicted in that article, you would assume it would have come up SOMEWHERE.
Maybe I missed it? But if not, what was up with that article, because it seems to have been very deliberately misleading to the point of utter falsification. I'm very curious as to any opinions on this, because if that's what has happened, it represents a new low. Biased is one thing, but if I can't rely on the site to tell the truth (even if god forbid, they must admit to a halfway decent product from a competitor), that's another thing altogether.
And before I get attacked for this, please understand that I'm just posing a question here.
You want to unhook all the cables from you AppleTV and haul it over to your friend's house? Then take it back home and have to hook it all back up again?
You must have worked in the AV department in high shool.
Let's see, that would be one HDMI cable and a power cord. WIth the Zune it would be what? HDMI cable, dock, and presumably a power adapter for the dock. Either way I don't see much difference.
I think DVD and Blue Ray win that one, assuming of course that the friend in question has a player so you don't have to bring that.
I'm hoping someone will respond to this question, even someone from the site. I've counted on this site for years now for all the most up-to-date Apple news, and it's pretty much never failed me. In fact, the addition of the price matrix helped me to purchase my latest laptop at an insane price, so I'm indebted there as well. And while it's true that AI has a tendency to be biased towards Apple, sometimes even unreasonably or overly so, I just sort of keep that in mind whenever I read things on here. I do think there are times when it goes too far, but, as others point out, this is APPLE insider, so I guess they're entitled. (Although it should also be pointed out, I'm a *huge* Apple fanboy, and even I find it annoying after a while. It seems to have increased noticeably over the last year or two.)
But the article a few days back about the Zune's OLED screen is really bothering me. It's the first time I'd read anything like that about OLED, a technology which I was actually really excited about, and have been hoping will make it's way into Apple's products eventually. What bothers me is that it seems to be an outright fabrication; a lie, plain and simple. And that's something I've NEVER seen from this site. I could be wrong, but I haven't seen anything in any other reviews about the screen being problematic in outdoor or bright lighting, and if the situation is as bad as was depicted in that article, you would assume it would have come up SOMEWHERE.
Maybe I missed it? But if not, what was up with that article, because it seems to have been very deliberately misleading to the point of utter falsification. I'm very curious as to any opinions on this, because if that's what has happened, it represents a new low. Biased is one thing, but if I can't rely on the site to tell the truth (even if god forbid, they must admit to a halfway decent product from a competitor), that's another thing altogether.
And before I get attacked for this, please understand that I'm just posing a question here.
http://www.oled-info.com/oleds-direct-sunlight
http://www.intomobile.com/2009/09/02...very-good.html
http://www.allaboutsymbian.com/featu...Holy_Grail.php
Could be some issues.
Except for the "movie night at a friend's house", the AppleTV already does this. But yes, it would make for a cool feature on the iPod Touch and/or iPhone.
Does anyone know why Apple took away the ability for iPhone to output video? They used to sell a couple video out composite and component cables as did a number of third parties. All gone now since OS 3.0.
Edit : I actually found it on Apple site
http://store.apple.com/us/product/MB128LL/B
[crap, it won't format right. how do i import a word table?]
Such rambling discussions here and everywhere on the web on the topic. No one has sorted it all out properly, not even all the pundits and tech sites. so here is a good start chart (hope formatting works):
FUNCTION\t ZUNE\t iPod NANO\t iPod TOUCH
\t\t\t
Web Browser\t IE Mobile\t No\t Safari Mobile
E-Mail\t No\t No\t Apple Mail
Text\t No\t No\t Apple Messages
VOIP\t No\t No\t w/Skype App et al
Calendar\t No\t No\t Apple Calendar
Contacts\t No\t No\t Apple Contacts
Data Sync\t No\t No\t w/MobileMe
\t\t\t
Apps\t About 5\t None\t Tens of Thousands
Games\t About 5\t About 50\t Many Thousands
Standard Apps MS Maps\t No\t Apple/Google Maps
\t MS Weather\t No\t Apple/Yahoo Weather
\t MS Calculator\t No\t Apple Calculator
\t\t\t Apple Remote App
\t\t\t MobileMe iDisk App
\t\t\t
Camera\t No\t Video VGA\t No
Radio\t FM ?HD?\t FM\t No
\t\t\t
Music Player Yes\t Yes\t Yes
Music Store\t Zune Marketplace\t iTunes\t iTunes
Home Server
Music
Streaming No\t No\t w/Simplify Music App
Music
Subscription Zune Pass\t No\t w/Rhapsody App
Earbud Sound
Quality\t Average\t Average\t Average
Sound Output
Quality\t ?\t ?\t ?
Speaker\t No\t No\t Yes
\t\t\t
Video/Movie
Player\t Yes\t Yes\t Yes
Screen Size\t 3.3?\t 2.2?\t 3.5?
Display
Resolution\t 480x272 ?dpi\t 376x240 204dpi\t 480x320 163dpi
Indoor PQ\t Excellent\t Very Good\t Very Good
Outdoor PQ\t ?\t ?\t ?
TV Streaming No\t No\t w/SlingMobile App
Video Output 720p w/$90 dock\t No\t 576p w/$49 AV Cable
\t\t\t
Battery Life
(Music) 33hrs\t 24hrs\t 30hrs
Connector\t Wifi & USB Cable \t USB Cable\t USB Cable
\t\t\t
Price\t\t 8G: $149\t 8G: $199
\t 16G: $220\t 16G: $179\t
\t 32G: $290 \t\t 32G: $299
\t\t \t 64G: $399
\t\t\t
3rd Party
Accessories\t Very Few\t Hundreds\t Hundreds
When you lay it all out thoroughly like this, it is clear the Zune is really competing with the Nano. both are primarily PMP's with various extra features. beyond that the Nano is "dumb, " the Zune is "a little smart." but the Touch is in a whole other category - "superdupersmart."
You forgot to mention a killer Zune feature:
http://blogs.zdnet.com/gadgetreviews/?p=7558
Really? You're going to go there? Hey everybody, remember
CUT AND PASTE! MMS! REMOVABLE BATTERY! MULTITASKING! BLUETOOTH FOR MY HEADPHONES! REAL KEYBOARD! MORE BUTTONS!
You know, all the things that made the iPhone/Touch "fail"? That needed to be LOL'ed about because "my XYZ has had that for ten years"?
So MS makes its "competitor" to the Touch and all of a sudden none of that stuff matters anymore because, it focuses on the music, man! Why do want all that Touch clutter crap?
The Zune beats the Nano, except for size and cost. The Zune competes with the Nano. The Zune has almost nothing to do with the Touch.
Lots of Zune hysterics were absolutely sure the HD was going to totally have an SDK and an app store and some massively cool titles right out of the gate and just wait, just you wait.
They're hoping we're all just forgetting that, and abruptly changing gears to talk about what a focused device for music the Zune is, and OLED, and, um, radio, and did I mention OLED?
The Zune has been crippled by the Windows Mobile division, pure and simple. They don't want the Zune stealing their thunder, and they have pride of place within MS. The Zune could have been a touch competitor if MS didn't have such a Byzantine internal organization, but they do, and their mobile offerings are scattered across several divisions that don't cooperate.
The Zune is a single purpose device in a multipurpose world. All the fun animated transitions and OLED in the world can't change that. MS has made the best music player of 2006, no doubt.
And all those things came to fruition- except the battery. So like what is your point? I spoke and Apple listened.
The Zune is the Zune and should not be compared to the Touch anyway.
And isn;t the Classic a single purpose device in the manner of the Zune- it concentrates on the music. Isn't that Steve Job's mantra- "It's all about the music!"
I'm hoping someone will respond to this question, even someone from the site. I've counted on this site for years now for all the most up-to-date Apple news, and it's pretty much never failed me. In fact, the addition of the price matrix helped me to purchase my latest laptop at an insane price, so I'm indebted there as well. And while it's true that AI has a tendency to be biased towards Apple, sometimes even unreasonably or overly so, I just sort of keep that in mind whenever I read things on here. I do think there are times when it goes too far, but, as others point out, this is APPLE insider, so I guess they're entitled. (Although it should also be pointed out, I'm a *huge* Apple fanboy, and even I find it annoying after a while. It seems to have increased noticeably over the last year or two.)
But the article a few days back about the Zune's OLED screen is really bothering me. It's the first time I'd read anything like that about OLED, a technology which I was actually really excited about, and have been hoping will make it's way into Apple's products eventually. What bothers me is that it seems to be an outright fabrication; a lie, plain and simple. And that's something I've NEVER seen from this site. I could be wrong, but I haven't seen anything in any other reviews about the screen being problematic in outdoor or bright lighting, and if the situation is as bad as was depicted in that article, you would assume it would have come up SOMEWHERE.
Maybe I missed it? But if not, what was up with that article, because it seems to have been very deliberately misleading to the point of utter falsification. I'm very curious as to any opinions on this, because if that's what has happened, it represents a new low. Biased is one thing, but if I can't rely on the site to tell the truth (even if god forbid, they must admit to a halfway decent product from a competitor), that's another thing altogether.
And before I get attacked for this, please understand that I'm just posing a question here.
AI said a lot about the OLED screen, so I don't know what part you considered to be a lie, but if it was the daylight visibility part, I'll give you this from Engadgets review. As far as I can tell AI never lied, but instead placed a spotlight on the flaws while downplaying or ignoring the benefits (which really isn't much better).
And all those things came to fruition- except the battery. So like what is your point? I spoke and Apple listened.
The Zune is the Zune and should not be compared to the Touch anyway.
And isn;t the Classic a siongle prpose device music in the manner of the Zune- it concentrates on the music. Isn't that Steve Job's mantra- "It's all about the music!"
So . . . the Zune HD shouldn't be compared to the iPod Touch, even though MS (and everyone) clearly positioned it as a competitor to it?
Then what exactly is the Zune HD competing against? Or is it going to create its very own, unique segment of the handheld market?
So we now realize how behind MS is in the game, and three years too late, so let's just downgrade epxectations and shift gears, and re-categorize the Zune HD so it looks better. Hey no problem, sounds like an MS plan to me! Hey, if we put the Zune HD up against the obsolescent iPod Classic, then we've got a winner for sure!