Will MS then merge the Zune HD and WinMo platforms somehow? If so, just how much later do they plan on doing that, since we already have that *right now* in the iPhone? Seems in this sense, MS will perpetualy be several steps behind.
I don't know if the PMP will completely cease to exist, some people want the "better" audio quality that the Zune and other devices have to offer (I doubt I would be able to tell the difference). So there will be a small market, but you are right there are a lot of players there and it make no sense for Microsoft to limit itself to such a market.
I think Microsoft really shoots themselves in the foot with parallel development, it's like they are throwing things at the wall and hoping something sticks. They have three mobile platforms that they are working on: Zune, WinMo 6.5, and WinMo 7.0, two media players on the computer (three if you consider Windows Media Center seperate from Windows Media Player), plus another one on the 360, they had two office platforms (Works and Office), etc. If all the departments played nice with each other and they didn't waste time replicating each others work (or worse working on two similar projects in the same department), they could have some really good products.
I think the answer is, when we look at the established leader (iPod) we tend to focus on what's missing, whereas when we look at the challenger (Zune) we focus more on what's there. I think this difference implies that if we did an objective feature comparison of both, Zune has a long ways to go to be a contender.
Just my 2 cents.
That definitely stands for people here in AI, but out there MS has loads of users, and some of them are (gasp! ) even happy with their Windows computers. For many of them, Zune HD does not have to be better than iPod Touch - it just has to be good enough, for start.
Or you have thought only Apple can command vast and dedicated army of fanboys and extremists..?
AI said a lot about the OLED screen, so I don't know what part you considered to be a lie, but if it was the daylight visibility part, I'll give you this from Engadgets review. As far as I can tell AI never lied, but instead placed a spotlight on the flaws while downplaying or ignoring the benefits (which really isn't much better).
Point taken. But like I say, I don't like how the iPhone performs in direct sunlight either, so I choose to avoid it. I.E. this issue for iPhone owners (especially me) is a non-issue. By the way, AI didn't say anything "The Prince" did
That kind of attitude is MS' problem. MS' users seem to be enablers of its mediocrity.
It's just "good enough." Don't expect too much. Don't demand too much, etc.
Expecting that a new product can beat a whole, pre-existing and utterly dominant ecosystem is expecting too much.
A new product has to be good enough in order to sell (well enough) and build critical mass of users. Once that is achieved, product will become attractive for 3rd party developers - or at least more in-house investments - and can evolve from product to a proper platform.
And yes, it has to be good enough. Like iPhone was good enough to stand its ground against WinMo and PalmOS mobtels and spur a process that brought it where it is now.
Seems people tend to forget iPhone lacked applications and even some features available on pre-existing platforms when introduced, but obviously was good enough to overcome that.
Likewise, in the golden days of PDA, Windows Mobile PDAs have hit the market much later than PalmOS and had to fight vast library of Palm apps and games... and, much as I remember, still managed to dethrone Palm PDAs at some point.
I'm not saying Zune HD will be able to repeat anything like that - only time will tell - but I do think that is the natural way of things.
Expecting that a new product can beat a whole, pre-existing and utterly dominant ecosystem is expecting too much.
A new product has to be good enough in order to sell (well enough) and build critical mass of users. Once that is achieved, product will become attractive for 3rd party developers - or at least more in-house investments - and can evolve from product to a proper platform.
And yes, it has to be good enough. Like iPhone was good enough to stand its ground against WinMo and PalmOS mobtels and spur a process that brought it where it is now.
Seems people tend to forget iPhone lacked applications and even some features available on pre-existing platforms when introduced, but obviously was good enough to overcome that.
Likewise, in the golden days of PDA, Windows Mobile PDAs have hit the market much later than PalmOS and had to fight vast library of Palm apps and games... and, much as I remember, still managed to dethrone Palm PDAs at some point.
I'm not saying Zune HD will be able to repeat anything like that - only time will tell - but I do think that is the natural way of things.
That's a reasonable view.
I certainly hope MS plans to integrate this into their Xbox ecosystem somehow. The Xbox has a great deal of potential, much of it yet to be tapped. That's one of their few prodcuts (very, very few) that i have respect for.
That definitely stands for people here in AI, but out there MS has loads of users, and some of them are (gasp! ) even happy with their Windows computers. For many of them, Zune HD does not have to be better than iPod Touch - it just has to be good enough, for start.
Or you have thought only Apple can command vast and dedicated army of fanboys and extremists..?
Two things: the Windows world actually doesn't command the level of identification and loyalty to their hardware that Apple does. You really don't meet too many people that "love" their PC, or who are of much of a mind to extol its virtues. It's the thing they gave you at work, or what you're used to. It gets the job done. The closest thing the Windows world comes to "fanboys" are rabid Apple haters, which is not the same thing.
Secondly, any fair analysis of what the Touch actually is, and what the Zune actually is, suggests that the Zune actually isn't "good enough."
If all you want is a nice PMP, sure, but that's not what the Touch is. If the idea is to peel of Touch owners, or keep potential Touch owners in the family, than the Zune HD doesn't provide remotely the functionality that the Touch does, which you have to assume most Touch owners or potential Touch owners actually care about.
I mean, how many potential buyers are thinking "I guess I could get that thing with the email and a ton of games and the location aware apps and really good browser and voice recording and virtual musical instruments and peer to peer gaming and system wide search and cut and paste and all those little sophisticated niceties like automatic wifi log-on, but, damnit, I don't want those things. I want OLED and subscription music and a shitload of animation in the UI."
Some, I guess, but that's not really competing on a "good enough" basis, that's shooting for a different market and a different buyer. Windows didn't become dominant by being "good enough" in that sense-- by having lots less functionality than their competitor's computers, while still charging as much and throwing in a bit of eye candy to sweeten the deal.
Let's see, that would be one HDMI cable and a power cord. WIth the Zune it would be what? HDMI cable, dock, and presumably a power adapter for the dock. Either way I don't see much difference.
I think DVD and Blue Ray win that one, assuming of course that the friend in question has a player so you don't have to bring that.
My original "wish" was for the iPhone/touch to have the capability to output 720p iTS HD video. In that case, all I need is my touch and a dock-to-HDMI cable. Nothing has to be disconnected from my home TV (why would I need to play content from my touch on my home TV when it's already on my computer, a HTPC mini, or AppleTV?).
If folks can't see how that is so much easier than disconnecting an AppleTV from my home system, lugging it back-and-forth, and then hooking it all back up again, then there's not much I can do more to explain it.
Unless the Zune is broken, it's taking what appears to be 10x longer to load a web page than the Touch, and even then doesn't get it all.
And here's the Zune taking a solid 10 seconds to launch the calculator app, which, WTF?
I agree with what someone else posted, possibly in another thread-- the tech press is invested in the horse race, and the Zune does enough right to give them a credible contender. But I've been sort of shocked as the blithe way many mainstream reviews sort of blow off what seem to me to be deal breakers, stuff like the clumsy way transport controls are accessed, or the terrible browser performance, or the lack of bluetooth, or a wired remote.
If I were writing a review, I'd spend less time being "blown away" by the "sexy" hardware and "hypnotic" interface and start wondering why apps take forever to launch or its a pain in the ass to change the volume. I mean, aren't these sort of fundamental issues?
I'm not sure why people believe there is no market for what the Zune offers. As a precursor to my post, I'd like to point out that I am neither an MS or Apple fanboy. I use both a Mac and a PC at work, and I have owned several Apple products including an iPod Touch and an iPod classic. I don't identify personally with any particular brand, to me they are all just more tools in the toolbox, and I have no hatred for either side developing new and better products.
While, like quite a lot of people, I did have terrible experiences with the iPods, mostly reliability issues, I must say that I am glad I gave Apple another chance and bought an iTouch back when they first came out. As a gadget man, I was in the market to upgrade my outdated first gen iTouch. I probably would have purchased an iPhone if my work did not already provide me with a Blackberry. So why didn't I get another iPod touch?
In two years Apple hadn't really done much to the iTouch. The Zune on the other hand had something different to offer.
I am a sound quality freak, and when I replaced the crappy earbuds that came with Zune, I could immediately tell the difference in sound quality. IMHO, the Zune blows the iTouch out of the water in this department. This has always been a peeve of mine with Apple's music players, but they have so many other advantages as a portable device that I have always been willing to gloss over the quality.
I also found the screen on the ZuneHD to be far superior to the iTouch. I have read some things in here about the quality of organic LEDs in direct sunlight. Personally, I rarely ever used my iTouch in the direct sunlight so I don't have a good enough recollection to make a comparison. I will say that the ZuneHD is quite dim when I look at it in the sun, but this doesn't bother me. I usually used my iTouch for videos when I am stuck on a plane, and I expect that will be the same for my ZuneHD. The only time it's really in the sun is in my car, when I am not looking at it anyway.
I don't know about the browser, I always use my blackberry for the web. On the rare occasion when I am at a WiFi spot without my laptop I found the iTouch browser to be sufficient (I never had these crashing problems that people talk about, but maybe I didn't use it enough). I haven't played much with the Zune browser, although it seems to work just fine too. The internet conncetion was kind of a wash for me, mobile browsing is generally a shitty experience regardless of the medium.
I also found the Zune GUI to be a lot easier, faster and more responsive than the iTouch. It was especially noticable when turning the device sideways and using the multi-touch. But, again this didn't really matter much to me. The iTouch worked fine in this regard, I never felt as though it was too slow. But I will admit that the UI was a nice bonus, I am really enjoying it.
What sold me on the Zune was the audio quality, the screen quality, and the integrated HD radio. I also liked the idea of the ZunePass, but I'm not sure if I will be paying the $10 fee yet, it seems like the marketplace for music is quite small compared to Apple's. I usually download most of my music anyway.
I must admit that I am somewhat dissapointed at the dearth of applications. I understand that the product was just launched, but still, as I understand it MS is using the XNA framework for applications, and I would have expected a few more application ports from the other WinMO devices. Give that it's using the XNA platform I am fairly certain that in the future there will be more applications developed, but it would have been nice if they put in the effort to have more than 10 at launch.
I think that the Zune has potential and that is why I bought it. When I looked at the newer iTouch it just looked like the same old, same old, with little added. The Samsung P3 was certainly also a tempting buy, but it didn't hold the same potental as the Zune. It was soley media-centric, without any real ability for the same kind of expansion as the Zune. I don't think that MS is going to attempt the same massive marketplace for applications as the iPod touch, but I do believe that there will be useful applciations developed for it.
As it stands now, it's hard to say if the ZuneHD will end up being a competitor to the iPod Touch, but it's certainly possible. Just because there aren't 200,000 slickly running applications the week after it's launch does not mean that there won't be any in the future. The hardware capability is there, and the platform for development is vast. Whether MS and other third party devs will be able to deliver on the software side will have to be seen. Microsoft may have found a nice happy medium between the expandability of the iTouch and the allure that more media-centric devices offer.
Unless the Zune is broken, it's taking what appears to be 10x longer to load a web page than the Touch, and even then doesn't get it all.
And here's the Zune taking a solid 10 seconds to launch the calculator app, which, WTF?
I agree with what someone else posted, possibly in another thread-- the tech press is invested in the horse race, and the Zune does enough right to give them a credible contender. But I've been sort of shocked as the blithe way many mainstream reviews sort of blow off what seem to me to be deal breakers, stuff like the clumsy way transport controls are accessed, or the terrible browser performance, or the lack of bluetooth, or a wired remote.
If I were writing a review, I'd spend less time being "blown away" by the "sexy" hardware and "hypnotic" interface and start wondering why apps take forever to launch or its a pain in the ass to change the volume. I mean, aren't these sort of fundamental issues?
Unless the Zune becomes an iPod touch clone, feature for feature (but with a few distinguishing features thrown in), it won't go very far, and remain something of a novelty/curiosity in what has become a shinking market for PMPs. MS has to have a solid, simple, and very aggressive growth strategy behind it - robust App Store, Cloud services integration, e-mail, and other features of the "pocket computer" paradigm which has taken the handheld segment by storm, and which is even re-imagining the entire portable computing sector.
It's bad enough that it has no phone functionality. Over the next two years we'll see a consumer-oriented shift in the accessibility of smartphones. Carriers, due to increased competition (up here in Canada, at least) will relax some of the more salient barriers to entry that the average consumer might experience. In short, smartphones that are capapble of a wide variety of functions and roles will replace standalone devices.
The nice thing about the iPod Touch is that is provdes an easy upgrade path to the iPhone. The devices are alike in many ways. But the communication functionality - phone, e-mail, SMS, MMS (depending on your carrier) really sets the iPhone apart. Its lead is becoming unassailable. Over two years and still nothing comparable.
The Zune HD should have been released in 2006 (but MS doesn't do that sort of thing.) Had that happened, and had MS back then had the additional foresight to see the growth potential in such a device, we wouldn't be asking endless quesions about what the hell MS is thinking today. They have the Xbox platform. Hopefully MS has the foresight to understand its full potential. Do they? If they do, how long can they afford to wait until they get around to some sort of serious Xbox-Zune integratoion? But MS really has no foresight in these areas, because, as we're learning, they simply don't need to innvovate anything. Apparently, if you have enough revenue and deep enough pockets, failed products are called "experiments." Apparently, irrespective of how long your customer base has to wait for you to release something that the competition has had (successfully) for years, it's ok. Because you can somehow afford to wait forever if need be. If you have money, it's alright to underperform constantly. A dangerous assumption. Small wonder MS has serious image issues. These are not just excuses for MS' failures, lateness, and overall ineptness, but also ominous portents of what awaits the Zune HD if MS doesn't give itself a sorely-needed attitude adjustment.
AI said a lot about the OLED screen, so I don't know what part you considered to be a lie, but if it was the daylight visibility part, I'll give you this from Engadgets review. As far as I can tell AI never lied, but instead placed a spotlight on the flaws while downplaying or ignoring the benefits (which really isn't much better).
That's exactly how my iPhone looks in direct sunlight. Or my PSP. Or any other device with a shiny screen.
The fact is the Zune HD has real geek buzz around it and has been getting rave reviews. Such things do not sit well with blinkered Apple fanboys.
No more fear than when the original Zune was released, which was also recognized as an ill-conceived idea. at the time.
And there's apparently no reason for any fear, because we're being told (astonishingly) that the Zune HD won't compete againt the iPod Touch anyway.
As a standalone PMP, it's great. I don't doubt the reviews at all. But unless MS has serious plans to grow this thing in terms of apps, multifunctionality, etc., it's in a shrinking market that will all but disappear completely as carriers play nicer with smartphone manufacturers. If the Zune HD isn't positioned as a growth platform (and judging by their crippled apps paradigm, it isn't really), it'll be an excellent PMP that no one will end up buying. The problem isn't how great the device is at what it's meant to do, the problem is that it arrived to the party when everyone's starting to get up and leave. We've moved beyond the PMP. Even if it has HD Radio and a nice screen. These two or three distinguishing hardware features just aren't enough.
The reason MS fans are falling all over themselves is because MS has never given them anything like this before. Apple users are accustomed to getting great devices ona regular basus. It usually takes MS ages to get up to speed. But unfortunately, again, it seems like MS' lateness and positioning of this device will just result in more Zune-inspired tears down the road.
The reason MS fans are falling all over themselves is because MS has never given them anything like this before. Apple users are accustomed to getting great devices ona regular basus. It usually takes MS ages to get up to speed. But unfortunately, again, it seems like MS' lateness and positioning of this device will just result in more Zune-inspired tears down the road.
Ghidrah, give it up please. Your desperation to bash the ZUne HD is pathetic. Again Microsoft is not a hardware electronics company like Apple partly is and it took them 3 years to get it right- who really cares? Competition is good anyway. Maybe you'll get an HD iPod next year.
That's exactly how my iPhone looks in direct sunlight. Or my PSP. Or any other device with a shiny screen.
Exactly! This 'sunlight' argument is a weak, weak one. The OLED screen is superior, why won't these fools just admit it. Every review makes this point.
Exactly! This 'sunlight' argument is a weak, weak one. The OLED screen is superior, why won't these fools just admit it. Every review makes this point.
Engadget specifically cites daylight visibility as a weakness of OLED, but they did love the screen otherwise. All I was pointing out was the AI didn't outright lie. The article was clearly biased and exagerated weak points while ignoring or downplaying strong points. iPhone visibility in daylight is also poor, although mine has never seemed as bad as that picture.
Oh right - and I forgot that Apple in 2009 invented MMS, video recording, and cut, copy, and paste. How stupid of me. When does flash get invented?
*Reinvented*. However when Apple takes a longer time to settle the kinks, it'll turn out nice and polished. Look at cut, copy and paste. Completely special and not the usual WM clunky style.
Comments
This.
It's like I'm seeing me talking!
You've gotten to the heart of the matter. There's a reason for Apple fanboyism.
There is reason for every extremism in the world. Usually wrong one, though.
Will MS then merge the Zune HD and WinMo platforms somehow? If so, just how much later do they plan on doing that, since we already have that *right now* in the iPhone? Seems in this sense, MS will perpetualy be several steps behind.
I don't know if the PMP will completely cease to exist, some people want the "better" audio quality that the Zune and other devices have to offer (I doubt I would be able to tell the difference). So there will be a small market, but you are right there are a lot of players there and it make no sense for Microsoft to limit itself to such a market.
I think Microsoft really shoots themselves in the foot with parallel development, it's like they are throwing things at the wall and hoping something sticks. They have three mobile platforms that they are working on: Zune, WinMo 6.5, and WinMo 7.0, two media players on the computer (three if you consider Windows Media Center seperate from Windows Media Player), plus another one on the 360, they had two office platforms (Works and Office), etc. If all the departments played nice with each other and they didn't waste time replicating each others work (or worse working on two similar projects in the same department), they could have some really good products.
I think the answer is, when we look at the established leader (iPod) we tend to focus on what's missing, whereas when we look at the challenger (Zune) we focus more on what's there. I think this difference implies that if we did an objective feature comparison of both, Zune has a long ways to go to be a contender.
Just my 2 cents.
That definitely stands for people here in AI, but out there MS has loads of users, and some of them are (gasp!
Or you have thought only Apple can command vast and dedicated army of fanboys and extremists..?
AI said a lot about the OLED screen, so I don't know what part you considered to be a lie, but if it was the daylight visibility part, I'll give you this from Engadgets review. As far as I can tell AI never lied, but instead placed a spotlight on the flaws while downplaying or ignoring the benefits (which really isn't much better).
Point taken. But like I say, I don't like how the iPhone performs in direct sunlight either, so I choose to avoid it. I.E. this issue for iPhone owners (especially me) is a non-issue. By the way, AI didn't say anything "The Prince" did
For many of them, Zune HD does not have to be better than iPod Touch - it just has to be good enough, for start.
That kind of attitude is MS' problem. MS' users seem to be enablers of its mediocrity.
It's just "good enough." Don't expect too much. Don't demand too much, etc.
That kind of attitude is MS' problem. MS' users seem to be enablers of its mediocrity.
It's just "good enough." Don't expect too much. Don't demand too much, etc.
Expecting that a new product can beat a whole, pre-existing and utterly dominant ecosystem is expecting too much.
A new product has to be good enough in order to sell (well enough) and build critical mass of users. Once that is achieved, product will become attractive for 3rd party developers - or at least more in-house investments - and can evolve from product to a proper platform.
And yes, it has to be good enough. Like iPhone was good enough to stand its ground against WinMo and PalmOS mobtels and spur a process that brought it where it is now.
Seems people tend to forget iPhone lacked applications and even some features available on pre-existing platforms when introduced, but obviously was good enough to overcome that.
Likewise, in the golden days of PDA, Windows Mobile PDAs have hit the market much later than PalmOS and had to fight vast library of Palm apps and games... and, much as I remember, still managed to dethrone Palm PDAs at some point.
I'm not saying Zune HD will be able to repeat anything like that - only time will tell - but I do think that is the natural way of things.
Expecting that a new product can beat a whole, pre-existing and utterly dominant ecosystem is expecting too much.
A new product has to be good enough in order to sell (well enough) and build critical mass of users. Once that is achieved, product will become attractive for 3rd party developers - or at least more in-house investments - and can evolve from product to a proper platform.
And yes, it has to be good enough. Like iPhone was good enough to stand its ground against WinMo and PalmOS mobtels and spur a process that brought it where it is now.
Seems people tend to forget iPhone lacked applications and even some features available on pre-existing platforms when introduced, but obviously was good enough to overcome that.
Likewise, in the golden days of PDA, Windows Mobile PDAs have hit the market much later than PalmOS and had to fight vast library of Palm apps and games... and, much as I remember, still managed to dethrone Palm PDAs at some point.
I'm not saying Zune HD will be able to repeat anything like that - only time will tell - but I do think that is the natural way of things.
That's a reasonable view.
I certainly hope MS plans to integrate this into their Xbox ecosystem somehow. The Xbox has a great deal of potential, much of it yet to be tapped. That's one of their few prodcuts (very, very few) that i have respect for.
That definitely stands for people here in AI, but out there MS has loads of users, and some of them are (gasp!
Or you have thought only Apple can command vast and dedicated army of fanboys and extremists..?
Two things: the Windows world actually doesn't command the level of identification and loyalty to their hardware that Apple does. You really don't meet too many people that "love" their PC, or who are of much of a mind to extol its virtues. It's the thing they gave you at work, or what you're used to. It gets the job done. The closest thing the Windows world comes to "fanboys" are rabid Apple haters, which is not the same thing.
Secondly, any fair analysis of what the Touch actually is, and what the Zune actually is, suggests that the Zune actually isn't "good enough."
If all you want is a nice PMP, sure, but that's not what the Touch is. If the idea is to peel of Touch owners, or keep potential Touch owners in the family, than the Zune HD doesn't provide remotely the functionality that the Touch does, which you have to assume most Touch owners or potential Touch owners actually care about.
I mean, how many potential buyers are thinking "I guess I could get that thing with the email and a ton of games and the location aware apps and really good browser and voice recording and virtual musical instruments and peer to peer gaming and system wide search and cut and paste and all those little sophisticated niceties like automatic wifi log-on, but, damnit, I don't want those things. I want OLED and subscription music and a shitload of animation in the UI."
Some, I guess, but that's not really competing on a "good enough" basis, that's shooting for a different market and a different buyer. Windows didn't become dominant by being "good enough" in that sense-- by having lots less functionality than their competitor's computers, while still charging as much and throwing in a bit of eye candy to sweeten the deal.
Let's see, that would be one HDMI cable and a power cord. WIth the Zune it would be what? HDMI cable, dock, and presumably a power adapter for the dock. Either way I don't see much difference.
I think DVD and Blue Ray win that one, assuming of course that the friend in question has a player so you don't have to bring that.
My original "wish" was for the iPhone/touch to have the capability to output 720p iTS HD video. In that case, all I need is my touch and a dock-to-HDMI cable. Nothing has to be disconnected from my home TV (why would I need to play content from my touch on my home TV when it's already on my computer, a HTPC mini, or AppleTV?).
If folks can't see how that is so much easier than disconnecting an AppleTV from my home system, lugging it back-and-forth, and then hooking it all back up again, then there's not much I can do more to explain it.
Unless the Zune is broken, it's taking what appears to be 10x longer to load a web page than the Touch, and even then doesn't get it all.
And here's the Zune taking a solid 10 seconds to launch the calculator app, which, WTF?
I agree with what someone else posted, possibly in another thread-- the tech press is invested in the horse race, and the Zune does enough right to give them a credible contender. But I've been sort of shocked as the blithe way many mainstream reviews sort of blow off what seem to me to be deal breakers, stuff like the clumsy way transport controls are accessed, or the terrible browser performance, or the lack of bluetooth, or a wired remote.
If I were writing a review, I'd spend less time being "blown away" by the "sexy" hardware and "hypnotic" interface and start wondering why apps take forever to launch or its a pain in the ass to change the volume. I mean, aren't these sort of fundamental issues?
While, like quite a lot of people, I did have terrible experiences with the iPods, mostly reliability issues, I must say that I am glad I gave Apple another chance and bought an iTouch back when they first came out. As a gadget man, I was in the market to upgrade my outdated first gen iTouch. I probably would have purchased an iPhone if my work did not already provide me with a Blackberry. So why didn't I get another iPod touch?
In two years Apple hadn't really done much to the iTouch. The Zune on the other hand had something different to offer.
I am a sound quality freak, and when I replaced the crappy earbuds that came with Zune, I could immediately tell the difference in sound quality. IMHO, the Zune blows the iTouch out of the water in this department. This has always been a peeve of mine with Apple's music players, but they have so many other advantages as a portable device that I have always been willing to gloss over the quality.
I also found the screen on the ZuneHD to be far superior to the iTouch. I have read some things in here about the quality of organic LEDs in direct sunlight. Personally, I rarely ever used my iTouch in the direct sunlight so I don't have a good enough recollection to make a comparison. I will say that the ZuneHD is quite dim when I look at it in the sun, but this doesn't bother me. I usually used my iTouch for videos when I am stuck on a plane, and I expect that will be the same for my ZuneHD. The only time it's really in the sun is in my car, when I am not looking at it anyway.
I don't know about the browser, I always use my blackberry for the web. On the rare occasion when I am at a WiFi spot without my laptop I found the iTouch browser to be sufficient (I never had these crashing problems that people talk about, but maybe I didn't use it enough). I haven't played much with the Zune browser, although it seems to work just fine too. The internet conncetion was kind of a wash for me, mobile browsing is generally a shitty experience regardless of the medium.
I also found the Zune GUI to be a lot easier, faster and more responsive than the iTouch. It was especially noticable when turning the device sideways and using the multi-touch. But, again this didn't really matter much to me. The iTouch worked fine in this regard, I never felt as though it was too slow. But I will admit that the UI was a nice bonus, I am really enjoying it.
What sold me on the Zune was the audio quality, the screen quality, and the integrated HD radio. I also liked the idea of the ZunePass, but I'm not sure if I will be paying the $10 fee yet, it seems like the marketplace for music is quite small compared to Apple's. I usually download most of my music anyway.
I must admit that I am somewhat dissapointed at the dearth of applications. I understand that the product was just launched, but still, as I understand it MS is using the XNA framework for applications, and I would have expected a few more application ports from the other WinMO devices. Give that it's using the XNA platform I am fairly certain that in the future there will be more applications developed, but it would have been nice if they put in the effort to have more than 10 at launch.
I think that the Zune has potential and that is why I bought it. When I looked at the newer iTouch it just looked like the same old, same old, with little added. The Samsung P3 was certainly also a tempting buy, but it didn't hold the same potental as the Zune. It was soley media-centric, without any real ability for the same kind of expansion as the Zune. I don't think that MS is going to attempt the same massive marketplace for applications as the iPod touch, but I do believe that there will be useful applciations developed for it.
As it stands now, it's hard to say if the ZuneHD will end up being a competitor to the iPod Touch, but it's certainly possible. Just because there aren't 200,000 slickly running applications the week after it's launch does not mean that there won't be any in the future. The hardware capability is there, and the platform for development is vast. Whether MS and other third party devs will be able to deliver on the software side will have to be seen. Microsoft may have found a nice happy medium between the expandability of the iTouch and the allure that more media-centric devices offer.
This..... doesn't seem good.
Unless the Zune is broken, it's taking what appears to be 10x longer to load a web page than the Touch, and even then doesn't get it all.
And here's the Zune taking a solid 10 seconds to launch the calculator app, which, WTF?
I agree with what someone else posted, possibly in another thread-- the tech press is invested in the horse race, and the Zune does enough right to give them a credible contender. But I've been sort of shocked as the blithe way many mainstream reviews sort of blow off what seem to me to be deal breakers, stuff like the clumsy way transport controls are accessed, or the terrible browser performance, or the lack of bluetooth, or a wired remote.
If I were writing a review, I'd spend less time being "blown away" by the "sexy" hardware and "hypnotic" interface and start wondering why apps take forever to launch or its a pain in the ass to change the volume. I mean, aren't these sort of fundamental issues?
Unless the Zune becomes an iPod touch clone, feature for feature (but with a few distinguishing features thrown in), it won't go very far, and remain something of a novelty/curiosity in what has become a shinking market for PMPs. MS has to have a solid, simple, and very aggressive growth strategy behind it - robust App Store, Cloud services integration, e-mail, and other features of the "pocket computer" paradigm which has taken the handheld segment by storm, and which is even re-imagining the entire portable computing sector.
It's bad enough that it has no phone functionality. Over the next two years we'll see a consumer-oriented shift in the accessibility of smartphones. Carriers, due to increased competition (up here in Canada, at least) will relax some of the more salient barriers to entry that the average consumer might experience. In short, smartphones that are capapble of a wide variety of functions and roles will replace standalone devices.
The nice thing about the iPod Touch is that is provdes an easy upgrade path to the iPhone. The devices are alike in many ways. But the communication functionality - phone, e-mail, SMS, MMS (depending on your carrier) really sets the iPhone apart. Its lead is becoming unassailable. Over two years and still nothing comparable.
The Zune HD should have been released in 2006 (but MS doesn't do that sort of thing.) Had that happened, and had MS back then had the additional foresight to see the growth potential in such a device, we wouldn't be asking endless quesions about what the hell MS is thinking today. They have the Xbox platform. Hopefully MS has the foresight to understand its full potential. Do they? If they do, how long can they afford to wait until they get around to some sort of serious Xbox-Zune integratoion? But MS really has no foresight in these areas, because, as we're learning, they simply don't need to innvovate anything. Apparently, if you have enough revenue and deep enough pockets, failed products are called "experiments." Apparently, irrespective of how long your customer base has to wait for you to release something that the competition has had (successfully) for years, it's ok. Because you can somehow afford to wait forever if need be. If you have money, it's alright to underperform constantly. A dangerous assumption. Small wonder MS has serious image issues. These are not just excuses for MS' failures, lateness, and overall ineptness, but also ominous portents of what awaits the Zune HD if MS doesn't give itself a sorely-needed attitude adjustment.
Another disappointing smear article of the Zune HD. Microsoft must of hit a nerve for them to hit this kind of low here.
I believe I smell fear from Camp Apple Insider.
The fact is the Zune HD has real geek buzz around it and has been getting rave reviews. Such things do not sit well with blinkered Apple fanboys.
AI said a lot about the OLED screen, so I don't know what part you considered to be a lie, but if it was the daylight visibility part, I'll give you this from Engadgets review. As far as I can tell AI never lied, but instead placed a spotlight on the flaws while downplaying or ignoring the benefits (which really isn't much better).
That's exactly how my iPhone looks in direct sunlight. Or my PSP. Or any other device with a shiny screen.
I believe I smell fear from Camp Apple Insider.
The fact is the Zune HD has real geek buzz around it and has been getting rave reviews. Such things do not sit well with blinkered Apple fanboys.
No more fear than when the original Zune was released, which was also recognized as an ill-conceived idea. at the time.
And there's apparently no reason for any fear, because we're being told (astonishingly) that the Zune HD won't compete againt the iPod Touch anyway.
As a standalone PMP, it's great. I don't doubt the reviews at all. But unless MS has serious plans to grow this thing in terms of apps, multifunctionality, etc., it's in a shrinking market that will all but disappear completely as carriers play nicer with smartphone manufacturers. If the Zune HD isn't positioned as a growth platform (and judging by their crippled apps paradigm, it isn't really), it'll be an excellent PMP that no one will end up buying. The problem isn't how great the device is at what it's meant to do, the problem is that it arrived to the party when everyone's starting to get up and leave. We've moved beyond the PMP. Even if it has HD Radio and a nice screen. These two or three distinguishing hardware features just aren't enough.
The reason MS fans are falling all over themselves is because MS has never given them anything like this before. Apple users are accustomed to getting great devices ona regular basus. It usually takes MS ages to get up to speed. But unfortunately, again, it seems like MS' lateness and positioning of this device will just result in more Zune-inspired tears down the road.
The reason MS fans are falling all over themselves is because MS has never given them anything like this before. Apple users are accustomed to getting great devices ona regular basus. It usually takes MS ages to get up to speed. But unfortunately, again, it seems like MS' lateness and positioning of this device will just result in more Zune-inspired tears down the road.
Ghidrah, give it up please. Your desperation to bash the ZUne HD is pathetic. Again Microsoft is not a hardware electronics company like Apple partly is and it took them 3 years to get it right- who really cares? Competition is good anyway. Maybe you'll get an HD iPod next year.
That's exactly how my iPhone looks in direct sunlight. Or my PSP. Or any other device with a shiny screen.
Exactly! This 'sunlight' argument is a weak, weak one. The OLED screen is superior, why won't these fools just admit it. Every review makes this point.
Exactly! This 'sunlight' argument is a weak, weak one. The OLED screen is superior, why won't these fools just admit it. Every review makes this point.
Engadget specifically cites daylight visibility as a weakness of OLED, but they did love the screen otherwise. All I was pointing out was the AI didn't outright lie. The article was clearly biased and exagerated weak points while ignoring or downplaying strong points. iPhone visibility in daylight is also poor, although mine has never seemed as bad as that picture.
Oh right - and I forgot that Apple in 2009 invented MMS, video recording, and cut, copy, and paste. How stupid of me. When does flash get invented?
*Reinvented*.