Engadget specifically cites daylight visibility as a weakness of OLED, but they did love the screen otherwise. All I was pointing out was the AI didn't outright lie. The article was clearly biased and exagerated weak points while ignoring or downplaying strong points. iPhone visibility in daylight is also poor, although mine has never seemed as bad as that picture.
The best solution for the iPhone outdoor glare is the non glare screen protector from Power Support. You get 2 in a sleeve for $14.95 from the APple store. They are made in Japan, very high quality, and no bubbles - at all.
The best solution for the iPhone outdoor glare is the non glare screen protector from Power Support. You get 2 in a sleeve for $14.95 from the APple store. They are made in Japan, very high quality, and no bubbles - at all.
Thanks, I'll keep that in mind. I haven't had major issues though, and I'm in Canada it is dark half the year anyway (not really, but I will be at work during all the daylight hours in the winter).
I'm curious about the Zune now that one reviewer wrote it's sleaker than the iPod touch, which I find very hard to believe.
Also another said the screen is crisp and she had no problem watching a TV show. Well the iPod touch screen is bigger. So she should have no problems there as well.
Oh and for all who complain about price, an iPod touch is less expensive. Take that bargain hunters. Bigger screen, more apps, and you don't have to pay for a service either.
I looked at HD in order to NOT buy the "new" iPod touch, as I have been pissed off due to lack of camera/ mic and radio. While Zune has the radio, I still decided to buy the iTouch. Enough said.
Placing my brand new ZUNE HD and iPod Touch (3rd Gen) side by side, the thing that is most apparent is that Apple has become far too complacent when it comes to developing the Touch platform.
Sure, I enjoy the occasional 'app' diversion, but for what a media player should, do, e.g provide an engaging/polished audio/video experience, the ZUNE HD simply leaves the new iPod Touch in the dust on every level.
Even the Touch hardware/form-factor seems terribly dated now, with it's rather archaic aspect ratio, washed-out/pixelated LCD, and (suddenly) ungainly/inelegant dimensions, it's clear that Apple really needs to invest less time rejecting app-store entries, and more time redesigning their hardware.
The same goes for iTunes, especially the Windows version, that now seems so utilitarian/boring (because it is), offering little in the way of new music discovery, or a subscription model.
I'll continue to use, and respect the 17 different iPods I've purchased over the years, but compared to my ZUNE HD/32gb, they now represent what was innovative/new, rather than what the future holds.
Looks like it's Apple who needs to worry about 'catching up' - IMO
You can't play/stop a song, change volume, switch to next/previous song etc. without pulling the device out and actually select it on screen with Zune. This is the real show-stopper for many I think.
Actually... Very Untrue
The OLED display registers up/down gestures across the entire surface as volume up/down, and left/right as track forward/backward.
It's extremely intuitive and accurate, and one need not look at the display - maybe you should try it sometime?
ZuneHD is more of a digression than a progression...
It's more expensive and it still lacks the craftsmanship of ipod touch.
Sorry MS it should be back to the drawing board again.
You've obviously never experienced the ZUNE HD, let alone actually seen one.
The ZUNE HD design/build quality is impeccable, with tolerances that effectively make the iPod Touch look extremely dated by comparison.
Apple products have served me well over the years, but whereas my new Touch is well-built in the way Sieko watches are, my ZUNE HD is (indeed) well-crafted in the sense of my Breitling Chronomat, and there is a huge difference.
Obviously you've failed to notice that 16:9 is the most popular aspect ration of TV/movies these days.
The ZUNE HD has it, and movies/videos looks fantastic when devoid of distracting black bars across the bottom/top.
You should really try 16:9, all the cool people have ;-)
I'm curious if you knew what the actual aspect ratio if the Touch was, because it's not the old Academy ratio that people seem to imply.
I personally don't watch video for very long periods of time on a tiny screen anyway.
Aspect ratios aren't a one off thing, most movies aren't 16:9, most are at least a little wider, some a lot wider, especially if it's Cinemascope aspect ratio. You're either going to get black bars or crop some of the image.
I'm hoping someone will respond to this question, even someone from the site. I've counted on this site for years now for all the most up-to-date Apple news, and it's pretty much never failed me. In fact, the addition of the price matrix helped me to purchase my latest laptop at an insane price, so I'm indebted there as well. And while it's true that AI has a tendency to be biased towards Apple, sometimes even unreasonably or overly so, I just sort of keep that in mind whenever I read things on here. I do think there are times when it goes too far, but, as others point out, this is APPLE insider, so I guess they're entitled. (Although it should also be pointed out, I'm a *huge* Apple fanboy, and even I find it annoying after a while. It seems to have increased noticeably over the last year or two.)
But the article a few days back about the Zune's OLED screen is really bothering me. It's the first time I'd read anything like that about OLED, a technology which I was actually really excited about, and have been hoping will make it's way into Apple's products eventually. What bothers me is that it seems to be an outright fabrication; a lie, plain and simple. And that's something I've NEVER seen from this site. I could be wrong, but I haven't seen anything in any other reviews about the screen being problematic in outdoor or bright lighting, and if the situation is as bad as was depicted in that article, you would assume it would have come up SOMEWHERE.
Maybe I missed it? But if not, what was up with that article, because it seems to have been very deliberately misleading to the point of utter falsification. I'm very curious as to any opinions on this, because if that's what has happened, it represents a new low. Biased is one thing, but if I can't rely on the site to tell the truth (even if god forbid, they must admit to a halfway decent product from a competitor), that's another thing altogether.
And before I get attacked for this, please understand that I'm just posing a question here.
'Lying' is such an ugly word, as it does imply malicious intent to deceive, but...
What Prince said, is what he said, and it was way beyond merely being 'misguided' - IMO
Placing my brand new ZUNE HD and iPod Touch (3rd Gen) side by side, the thing that is most apparent is that Apple has become far too complacent when it comes to developing the Touch platform.
Do tell. And by "platform" I'm guessing you mean "A robust OS, deep bench of apps, several products that share that OS and those apps, and lots of third party accessories."
You're right, MS really has Apple nailed to the wall here.
Quote:
Sure, I enjoy the occasional 'app' diversion, but for what a media player should, do, e.g provide an engaging/polished audio/video experience, the ZUNE HD simply leaves the new iPod Touch in the dust on every level.
I'm just going to have to assume that MS doesn't pay their shill evangelists much, or they could get people who could be more clever about concealing their agenda. Pro tip: stop bolding product names, and refrain from redefining the competition's products in terms that flatter your employers. The Touch is not "a media player." That's what the Zune is. The fact that the Zune offers a tiny subset of the Touch's functionality is not an asset.
Quote:
Even the Touch hardware/form-factor seems terribly dated now, with it's rather archaic aspect ratio, washed-out/pixelated LCD, and (suddenly) ungainly/inelegant dimensions, it's clear that Apple really needs to invest less time rejecting app-store entries, and more time redesigning their hardware.
Again, you're overplaying your hand. "Ungainly/inelegant dimensions" sounds like they sent you a list of talking points and you misunderstood them. No sentient human outside of Redmond sees this as telling flaw of the Touch. Of course, MS has the app store rejection distraction problem licked, don't they? Just don't have apps, problem solved.
Quote:
The same goes for iTunes, especially the Windows version, that now seems so utilitarian/boring (because it is), offering little in the way of new music discovery, or a subscription model.
Yes. iTunes is rendered utilitarian and boring because, wait for it..... it doesn't have the two features MS is flogging! Well done!
Quote:
I'll continue to use, and respect the 17 different iPods I've purchased over the years, but compared to my ZUNE HD/32gb, they now represent what was innovative/new, rather than what the future holds.
And the obligatory closing flourish of "I speak truth because I've bought a shitload of Apple hardware" It's the "Dear Penthouse, I never thought this would happen to me" of MS shill posts.
Quote:
Looks like it's Apple who needs to worry about 'catching up' - IMO
Or, more specifically, in the opinion of the MS PR people, who are obviously going to go all in on the idea that the Zune is the new cool and the Touch and iTunes are old school and busted.
However, they still have to go out there and sell a PMP as being the future, while everyone else has figured out that having a computer in your pocket is actually something people kinda dig. All the relentless chanting of "I only care about music, all of a sudden, for some reason" can't change that.
Do tell. And by "platform" I'm guessing you mean "A robust OS, deep bench of apps, several products that share that OS and those apps, and lots of third party accessories."
You're right, MS really has Apple nailed to the wall here.
I'm just going to have to assume that MS doesn't pay their shill evangelists much, or they could get people who could be more clever about concealing their agenda. Pro tip: stop bolding product names, and refrain from redefining the competition's products in terms that flatter your employers. The Touch is not "a media player." That's what the Zune is. The fact that the Zune offers a tiny subset of the Touch's functionality is not an asset.
Again, you're overplaying your hand. "Ungainly/inelegant dimensions" sounds like they sent you a list of talking points and you misunderstood them. No sentient human outside of Redmond sees this as telling flaw of the Touch. Of course, MS has the app store rejection distraction problem licked, don't they? Just don't have apps, problem solved.
Yes. iTunes is rendered utilitarian and boring because, wait for it..... it doesn't have the two features MS is flogging! Well done!
And the obligatory closing flourish of "I speak truth because I've bought a shitload of Apple hardware" It's the "Dear Penthouse, I never thought this would happen to me" of MS shill posts.
Or, more specifically, in the opinion of the MS PR people, who are obviously going to go all in on the idea that the Zune is the new cool and the Touch and iTunes are old school and busted.
However, they still have to go out there and sell a PMP as being the future, while everyone else has figured out that having a computer in your pocket is actually something people kinda dig. All the relentless chanting of "I only care about music, all of a sudden, for some reason" can't change that.
Suggestion:
Take off your Apple-Clouded blinders and actually purchase a ZUNE HD, and get back to me with a credible rebuttal, until then - NEXT!
Engadget specifically cites daylight visibility as a weakness of OLED, but they did love the screen otherwise. All I was pointing out was the AI didn't outright lie. The article was clearly biased and exagerated weak points while ignoring or downplaying strong points. iPhone visibility in daylight is also poor, although mine has never seemed as bad as that picture.
There's a good reason why yours, "has never seemed as bad as that (Engadget) picture"...
It's because you probably have the common sense not to have the display brightness set at its lowest setting, as Josh apparently did -
Oh and for all who complain about price, an iPod touch is less expensive. Take that bargain hunters. Bigger screen, more apps, and you don't have to pay for a service either.
Really?
Though I do agree that my iPod Touch is indeed cheaper, as in of lesser build-quality etc., it's hardly less expensive.
Entry Level: Ipod Touch 8gb = 199.00 US, ZUNE HD 16gb = 219.99 US
Note: 8gb on a purported multi-media device is laughable in this market.
32gb: iPod Touch 32gb = 299.99 US, ZUNE HD 32gb = 289.99 US
Additionally: One need not pay for any service plan to use their ZUNE HD, but the advantages of doing so are well worth the effort for those who truly enjoy music e.g. 10 DRM-free music downloads to keep forever, full access to all other music in the ZUNE Marketplace, Social interaction that envolves the sharing of songs with other ZUNE users free of additional cost, and on... and on...
Lesson: You might want to check your facts on this one... \
Take off your Apple-Clouded blinders and actually purchase a ZUNE HD, and get back to me with a credible rebuttal, until then - NEXT!
And I'll discover the Zune is a small computer with vast array of apps and I'll be suitable educated?
I have no use for a product that merely plays music and videos and when I can do that and a great deal more with a single device. Others may feel differently, but the future clearly belongs to integration.
Though I do agree that my iPod Touch is indeed cheaper, as in of lesser build-quality etc., it's hardly less expensive.
Entry Level: Ipod Touch 8gb = 199.00 US, ZUNE HD 16gb = 219.99 US
Note: 8gb on a purported multi-media device is laughable in this market.
32gb: iPod Touch 32gb = 299.99 US, ZUNE HD 32gb = 289.99 US
Additionally: One need not pay for any service plan to use their ZUNE HD, but the advantages of doing so are well worth the effort for those who truly enjoy music e.g. 10 DRM-free music downloads to keep forever, full access to all other music in the ZUNE Marketplace, Social interaction that envolves the sharing of songs with other ZUNE users free of additional cost, and on... and on...
Lesson: You might want to check your facts on this one... \
Now you're just reposting MS handouts. You must try harder.
Comments
Engadget specifically cites daylight visibility as a weakness of OLED, but they did love the screen otherwise. All I was pointing out was the AI didn't outright lie. The article was clearly biased and exagerated weak points while ignoring or downplaying strong points. iPhone visibility in daylight is also poor, although mine has never seemed as bad as that picture.
The best solution for the iPhone outdoor glare is the non glare screen protector from Power Support. You get 2 in a sleeve for $14.95 from the APple store. They are made in Japan, very high quality, and no bubbles - at all.
The best solution for the iPhone outdoor glare is the non glare screen protector from Power Support. You get 2 in a sleeve for $14.95 from the APple store. They are made in Japan, very high quality, and no bubbles - at all.
Thanks, I'll keep that in mind. I haven't had major issues though, and I'm in Canada it is dark half the year anyway (not really, but I will be at work during all the daylight hours in the winter).
I'm curious about the Zune now that one reviewer wrote it's sleaker than the iPod touch, which I find very hard to believe.
Also another said the screen is crisp and she had no problem watching a TV show. Well the iPod touch screen is bigger. So she should have no problems there as well.
I looked at HD in order to NOT buy the "new" iPod touch, as I have been pissed off due to lack of camera/ mic and radio. While Zune has the radio, I still decided to buy the iTouch. Enough said.
Placing my brand new ZUNE HD and iPod Touch (3rd Gen) side by side, the thing that is most apparent is that Apple has become far too complacent when it comes to developing the Touch platform.
Sure, I enjoy the occasional 'app' diversion, but for what a media player should, do, e.g provide an engaging/polished audio/video experience, the ZUNE HD simply leaves the new iPod Touch in the dust on every level.
Even the Touch hardware/form-factor seems terribly dated now, with it's rather archaic aspect ratio, washed-out/pixelated LCD, and (suddenly) ungainly/inelegant dimensions, it's clear that Apple really needs to invest less time rejecting app-store entries, and more time redesigning their hardware.
The same goes for iTunes, especially the Windows version, that now seems so utilitarian/boring (because it is), offering little in the way of new music discovery, or a subscription model.
I'll continue to use, and respect the 17 different iPods I've purchased over the years, but compared to my ZUNE HD/32gb, they now represent what was innovative/new, rather than what the future holds.
Looks like it's Apple who needs to worry about 'catching up' - IMO
You can't play/stop a song, change volume, switch to next/previous song etc. without pulling the device out and actually select it on screen with Zune. This is the real show-stopper for many I think.
Actually... Very Untrue
The OLED display registers up/down gestures across the entire surface as volume up/down, and left/right as track forward/backward.
It's extremely intuitive and accurate, and one need not look at the display - maybe you should try it sometime?
Even the Touch hardware/form-factor seems terribly dated now, with it's rather archaic aspect ratio,
Wait, what archaic aspect ratio?
the ZUNE HD simply leaves the new iPod Touch in the dust on every level.
Great! You prefer the Zune over the iPod.
Any particular reason that you need to broadcast the fact in dozens of blog comments and forums around the web?
Or is that your job?
ZuneHD is more of a digression than a progression...
It's more expensive and it still lacks the craftsmanship of ipod touch.
Sorry MS it should be back to the drawing board again.
You've obviously never experienced the ZUNE HD, let alone actually seen one.
The ZUNE HD design/build quality is impeccable, with tolerances that effectively make the iPod Touch look extremely dated by comparison.
Apple products have served me well over the years, but whereas my new Touch is well-built in the way Sieko watches are, my ZUNE HD is (indeed) well-crafted in the sense of my Breitling Chronomat, and there is a huge difference.
Wait, what archaic aspect ratio?
Obviously you've failed to notice that 16:9 is the most popular aspect ration of TV/movies these days.
The ZUNE HD has it, and movies/videos looks fantastic when devoid of distracting black bars across the bottom/top.
You should really try 16:9, all the cool people have ;-)
Great! You prefer the Zune over the iPod.
Any particular reason that you need to broadcast the fact in dozens of blog comments and forums around the web?
Or is that your job?
Over-Exaggerate... Much?
I guess one could counter by asking if it's your 'job' to go around stalking people on the internet?
No need to answer... the answer it quite obvious
Obviously you've failed to notice that 16:9 is the most popular aspect ration of TV/movies these days.
The ZUNE HD has it, and movies/videos looks fantastic when devoid of distracting black bars across the bottom/top.
You should really try 16:9, all the cool people have ;-)
I'm curious if you knew what the actual aspect ratio if the Touch was, because it's not the old Academy ratio that people seem to imply.
I personally don't watch video for very long periods of time on a tiny screen anyway.
Aspect ratios aren't a one off thing, most movies aren't 16:9, most are at least a little wider, some a lot wider, especially if it's Cinemascope aspect ratio. You're either going to get black bars or crop some of the image.
I'm hoping someone will respond to this question, even someone from the site. I've counted on this site for years now for all the most up-to-date Apple news, and it's pretty much never failed me. In fact, the addition of the price matrix helped me to purchase my latest laptop at an insane price, so I'm indebted there as well. And while it's true that AI has a tendency to be biased towards Apple, sometimes even unreasonably or overly so, I just sort of keep that in mind whenever I read things on here. I do think there are times when it goes too far, but, as others point out, this is APPLE insider, so I guess they're entitled. (Although it should also be pointed out, I'm a *huge* Apple fanboy, and even I find it annoying after a while. It seems to have increased noticeably over the last year or two.)
But the article a few days back about the Zune's OLED screen is really bothering me. It's the first time I'd read anything like that about OLED, a technology which I was actually really excited about, and have been hoping will make it's way into Apple's products eventually. What bothers me is that it seems to be an outright fabrication; a lie, plain and simple. And that's something I've NEVER seen from this site. I could be wrong, but I haven't seen anything in any other reviews about the screen being problematic in outdoor or bright lighting, and if the situation is as bad as was depicted in that article, you would assume it would have come up SOMEWHERE.
Maybe I missed it? But if not, what was up with that article, because it seems to have been very deliberately misleading to the point of utter falsification. I'm very curious as to any opinions on this, because if that's what has happened, it represents a new low. Biased is one thing, but if I can't rely on the site to tell the truth (even if god forbid, they must admit to a halfway decent product from a competitor), that's another thing altogether.
And before I get attacked for this, please understand that I'm just posing a question here.
'Lying' is such an ugly word, as it does imply malicious intent to deceive, but...
What Prince said, is what he said, and it was way beyond merely being 'misguided' - IMO
Placing my brand new ZUNE HD and iPod Touch (3rd Gen) side by side, the thing that is most apparent is that Apple has become far too complacent when it comes to developing the Touch platform.
Do tell. And by "platform" I'm guessing you mean "A robust OS, deep bench of apps, several products that share that OS and those apps, and lots of third party accessories."
You're right, MS really has Apple nailed to the wall here.
Sure, I enjoy the occasional 'app' diversion, but for what a media player should, do, e.g provide an engaging/polished audio/video experience, the ZUNE HD simply leaves the new iPod Touch in the dust on every level.
I'm just going to have to assume that MS doesn't pay their shill evangelists much, or they could get people who could be more clever about concealing their agenda. Pro tip: stop bolding product names, and refrain from redefining the competition's products in terms that flatter your employers. The Touch is not "a media player." That's what the Zune is. The fact that the Zune offers a tiny subset of the Touch's functionality is not an asset.
Even the Touch hardware/form-factor seems terribly dated now, with it's rather archaic aspect ratio, washed-out/pixelated LCD, and (suddenly) ungainly/inelegant dimensions, it's clear that Apple really needs to invest less time rejecting app-store entries, and more time redesigning their hardware.
Again, you're overplaying your hand. "Ungainly/inelegant dimensions" sounds like they sent you a list of talking points and you misunderstood them. No sentient human outside of Redmond sees this as telling flaw of the Touch. Of course, MS has the app store rejection distraction problem licked, don't they? Just don't have apps, problem solved.
The same goes for iTunes, especially the Windows version, that now seems so utilitarian/boring (because it is), offering little in the way of new music discovery, or a subscription model.
Yes. iTunes is rendered utilitarian and boring because, wait for it..... it doesn't have the two features MS is flogging! Well done!
I'll continue to use, and respect the 17 different iPods I've purchased over the years, but compared to my ZUNE HD/32gb, they now represent what was innovative/new, rather than what the future holds.
And the obligatory closing flourish of "I speak truth because I've bought a shitload of Apple hardware" It's the "Dear Penthouse, I never thought this would happen to me" of MS shill posts.
Looks like it's Apple who needs to worry about 'catching up' - IMO
Or, more specifically, in the opinion of the MS PR people, who are obviously going to go all in on the idea that the Zune is the new cool and the Touch and iTunes are old school and busted.
However, they still have to go out there and sell a PMP as being the future, while everyone else has figured out that having a computer in your pocket is actually something people kinda dig. All the relentless chanting of "I only care about music, all of a sudden, for some reason" can't change that.
I believe I smell fear from Camp Apple Insider.
The fact is the Zune HD has real geek buzz around it and has been getting rave reviews. Such things do not sit well with blinkered Apple fanboys.
Absolutely! It's little more than the panicked ramblings of the fearful - IMO
Many if the negative sentiments expressed in this forum is enough to make one ashamed to own any Apple product.
Do tell. And by "platform" I'm guessing you mean "A robust OS, deep bench of apps, several products that share that OS and those apps, and lots of third party accessories."
You're right, MS really has Apple nailed to the wall here.
I'm just going to have to assume that MS doesn't pay their shill evangelists much, or they could get people who could be more clever about concealing their agenda. Pro tip: stop bolding product names, and refrain from redefining the competition's products in terms that flatter your employers. The Touch is not "a media player." That's what the Zune is. The fact that the Zune offers a tiny subset of the Touch's functionality is not an asset.
Again, you're overplaying your hand. "Ungainly/inelegant dimensions" sounds like they sent you a list of talking points and you misunderstood them. No sentient human outside of Redmond sees this as telling flaw of the Touch. Of course, MS has the app store rejection distraction problem licked, don't they? Just don't have apps, problem solved.
Yes. iTunes is rendered utilitarian and boring because, wait for it..... it doesn't have the two features MS is flogging! Well done!
And the obligatory closing flourish of "I speak truth because I've bought a shitload of Apple hardware" It's the "Dear Penthouse, I never thought this would happen to me" of MS shill posts.
Or, more specifically, in the opinion of the MS PR people, who are obviously going to go all in on the idea that the Zune is the new cool and the Touch and iTunes are old school and busted.
However, they still have to go out there and sell a PMP as being the future, while everyone else has figured out that having a computer in your pocket is actually something people kinda dig. All the relentless chanting of "I only care about music, all of a sudden, for some reason" can't change that.
Suggestion:
Take off your Apple-Clouded blinders and actually purchase a ZUNE HD, and get back to me with a credible rebuttal, until then - NEXT!
Engadget specifically cites daylight visibility as a weakness of OLED, but they did love the screen otherwise. All I was pointing out was the AI didn't outright lie. The article was clearly biased and exagerated weak points while ignoring or downplaying strong points. iPhone visibility in daylight is also poor, although mine has never seemed as bad as that picture.
There's a good reason why yours, "has never seemed as bad as that (Engadget) picture"...
It's because you probably have the common sense not to have the display brightness set at its lowest setting, as Josh apparently did -
Oh and for all who complain about price, an iPod touch is less expensive. Take that bargain hunters. Bigger screen, more apps, and you don't have to pay for a service either.
Really?
Though I do agree that my iPod Touch is indeed cheaper, as in of lesser build-quality etc., it's hardly less expensive.
Entry Level: Ipod Touch 8gb = 199.00 US, ZUNE HD 16gb = 219.99 US
Note: 8gb on a purported multi-media device is laughable in this market.
32gb: iPod Touch 32gb = 299.99 US, ZUNE HD 32gb = 289.99 US
Additionally: One need not pay for any service plan to use their ZUNE HD, but the advantages of doing so are well worth the effort for those who truly enjoy music e.g. 10 DRM-free music downloads to keep forever, full access to all other music in the ZUNE Marketplace, Social interaction that envolves the sharing of songs with other ZUNE users free of additional cost, and on... and on...
Lesson: You might want to check your facts on this one...
Suggestion:
Take off your Apple-Clouded blinders and actually purchase a ZUNE HD, and get back to me with a credible rebuttal, until then - NEXT!
And I'll discover the Zune is a small computer with vast array of apps and I'll be suitable educated?
I have no use for a product that merely plays music and videos and when I can do that and a great deal more with a single device. Others may feel differently, but the future clearly belongs to integration.
I know, you're not allowed to admit that.
Really?
Though I do agree that my iPod Touch is indeed cheaper, as in of lesser build-quality etc., it's hardly less expensive.
Entry Level: Ipod Touch 8gb = 199.00 US, ZUNE HD 16gb = 219.99 US
Note: 8gb on a purported multi-media device is laughable in this market.
32gb: iPod Touch 32gb = 299.99 US, ZUNE HD 32gb = 289.99 US
Additionally: One need not pay for any service plan to use their ZUNE HD, but the advantages of doing so are well worth the effort for those who truly enjoy music e.g. 10 DRM-free music downloads to keep forever, full access to all other music in the ZUNE Marketplace, Social interaction that envolves the sharing of songs with other ZUNE users free of additional cost, and on... and on...
Lesson: You might want to check your facts on this one...
Now you're just reposting MS handouts. You must try harder.