I am happy for Motorola that they at least appear to have something good in their hands, and I commend them for not giving up.
Here we see another American company that offers at least some competition to Apple (as did Palm sort of), instead of an overseas company from the Far East or Finland (or Canada for that matter).
In the past we gave up the development and (mass) production of cameras, audio and video equipment, more recently home and kitchen appliances and even automobiles are threatened, but it makes me proud to see the US continue to take the lead in the world of smart phones.
I will not buy a Droid (I am all Apple) but I do hope that the phone will be successful, eventually resulting in more US jobs. Next step: producing them here as well, something I always hoped and still hope Apple would consider.
RIM is doing good, so they don't really need to change their approach to smart phones dramatically. Like Apple do, you don't change wining formula.
Nokia, well. I believe their new (Linux based?) platform has potential. They are a bit slow to respond but considering their size, I'd say they have enough reserve to recover and bounce back before things go desperate.
And Nokia does have advantage over Apple, even at present. Even if "smart" part of Nokias leave much to be desired, "phone" part works much better than iPhone, I'm afraid.
Carrying company Nokia E63 and my iPhone 3Gs together across wide Auckland area - both on Vodafone 3G network, I did notice that Nokia is very happy with signal most of the time - actually haven't noticed it switching from 3G to 2G or even loosing more than 2 (out of 7) tabs of signal strength... while my beloved iPhone goes to 2G often and also sits on sad 1 tab of 3G signal a lot of time. I also caught 2 brief "no service" messages where Nokia was absolutely happy to oblige.
This is not a small difference, I'm afraid. Going rural (bushwalks, camping) would likely make 3Gs very useless phone around here.
As I have mentioned in different tread, I've compared my findings with 2 more 3Gs units, and all of them were equally touchy signal wise.
The Blackberry is still the #1 smartphone and Apple hasn't been able to change that in two years. So I'm not sure where you get no one has been abot to release anything remotely successful, its more successful.
Unlike pre-iPhone, is there any US carrier still promoting a Blackberry as its best smartphone?
I think that will happen with iPhone OS v4.0 next summer, and will included with iPhones starting with the 3GS. My reasoning is, the 3GS has a fast enough CPU and enough RAM (256MB) to run many 3rd-app(s) in the background without adversely affecting performance. I think it will need to be setup like the Push Notifications settings, where you select from your list of viable 3rd-party apps to see which one(s) you want to keep running in the background when you press the Home Button.
I hope it'll come to the 3GS as that's what I have, but I'm not holding my breath. My contingency plan is to give my 3GS to my daughter...
Then I'm sure you've missed the reports of Android topping the iPhone in marketshare by 2012. The new Android phones have specs to die for and every one that gets bought increases the exposure and userbase. Which means the developers will come en-masse. There's already been a 94% increase in development for Android apps within a month alone!
That was a Gartner analysis. And when has Gartner been right in predicting a future that is more than 3 months out?
It's actually a Google thing. Google has much more of the US mapped out in their database than Europe. So they're more confident that their mapping program will work as intended here.
Could you imagine what trouble they'd get into if their routing used the incomplete mapping information in Europe and constantly led people around wrong? They're just playing it smart and safe.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark2005
That was a Gartner analysis. And when has Gartner been right in predicting a future that is more than 3 months out?
No idea. But the reasoning they use seems fairly right. Google is playing a numbers game. By splitting Android across multiple manufacturers and carriers, they don't limit themselves in the number of products.
Only Apple has the iPhone. They release a new model, there's only 1 model on the market (purely vertical). Google so far has HTC, Motorola, Sony-Ericsson. If each of them only releases 1 new model, that's still a total of 3 models new to the market. They lay out a broad base and build up from there.
And this is only for the smartphone market. Android is being dabbled in in all kinds of electronics. Since it's open and more or less free, expect many more companies to jump on the bandwagon. It doesn't take a stretch of the mind to see how this numbers game works in Google's advantage.
Or if they trod all over other people's copyrights, Nokia with Navteq for example.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AsianBob
It's actually a Google thing. Google has much more of the US mapped out in their database than Europe. So they're more confident that their mapping program will work as intended here.
Could you imagine what trouble they'd get into if their routing used the incomplete mapping information in Europe and constantly led people around wrong? They're just playing it smart and safe.
The roundabouts near my house which were replaced by traffic lights four years ago, still show up in Google maps as roundabouts even though the satellite pictures show traffic lights.
For starters that would apply to people who purchase a smartphone AFTER 11/15/09, so the majority of Droid users will be all set. Not to mention Verizon offers a 30 day trial period. After all of this it's still not 100% confirmed what "smartphones" the $350 ETF apply's to. So it's fair to say that you should NOT let the $350 ETF scare you away for this reason.
Or if they trod all over other people's copyrights, Nokia with Navteq for example.
The roundabouts near my house which were replaced by traffic lights four years ago, still show up in Google maps as roundabouts even though the satellite pictures show traffic lights.
You pay peanuts you get monkeys.
Eh. 4 years is a long time, but no company's 100% perfect on their mapping software. Plus I'm sure Google doesn't expect you to blindly follow their directions without stopping at those lights and plow right through.
For starters that would apply to people who purchase a smartphone AFTER 11/15/09, so the majority of Droid users will be all set. Not to mention Verizon offers a 30 day trial period. After all of this it's still not 100% confirmed what "smartphones" the $350 ETF apply's to. So it's fair to say that you should NOT let the $350 ETF scare you away for this reason.
I agree that ETF shouldn?t scare anyone, but I don? t think the majority of Droid owners will reside within the first 9 days of launch.
PS: The ETF fee also drops by $5 each month. Since the $175 fee drops by $5 each month I think this one would have been more fair if it dropped $10 each month.
The iPhone is undoubtedly a success but even Apple realized they cant sustain this extreme growth they've had without going multi carrier AND adding something new to the mix (the 4G had better impress, i know quite a few who still rock a 2G/3G because the 3GS is the same thing, just a lil faster and a bit bigger memory. 6 people i know personally have bought an iPhone in the past 2 months, all got a 3G except 1).
Their profit margin per phone is very high and that's due to the fact of their exclusive agreements have netted them quite a lot. RIM sells their berrys around 340ish (depending on model) Apple would be in this same range, but with carriers like AT&T DESPERATE to keep customers in, they are willing to shell out 4-500 dollars per phone to Apple, and iirc it only costs roughly 210 bucks (not exact) to build, their making a killing.
Now that their going multi carrier i think we'll see even more profit obviously for hitting customers they couldnt reach before, but their profit per phone is going to plummet due to the end of exclusive agreements. Theres no doubt in my mind that if AT&T wasnt dumping so much money, Apple would be going to T-Mobile very soon (already there? I know T-Mo handles issues with my girls 2G, theres no doubt it would be a smash hit on their carrier) before going LTE and then take the entire US market.
I?ve also read reviews of the physical keyboard not being as fast as typing with the virtual keyboard because the keys are too flush and don?t give enough tactile feedback when pressed, making it less natural to use than other physical keyboards.
Per these reviews, the Droid's physical keyboard also does not have predictive typing or autocorrect. Only the virtual keyboard includes it.
Per these reviews, the Droid's physical keyboard also does not have predictive typing or autocorrect. Only the virtual keyboard includes it.
Seriously? I read that the predictive and autocorrect wasn?t as advanced as the iPhone?s, but I assumed that the physical keyboard would have it. Seems odd that it?s not the same engine regardless of the input source.
Seriously? I read that the predictive and autocorrect wasn?t as advanced as the iPhone?s, but I assumed that the physical keyboard would have it. Seems odd that it?s not the same engine regardless of the input source.
Most physical qwerty phones dont offer autocorrect (they do, but on common misspelled words) which is good or bad depending on how you slice it. Its very easy to make a mistake on a touchscreen phone which is why good autocorrect is a must. I use my Bold, and i can feel out the keys, so i can easy type without looking at all down at the keyboard to see what im hitting but the screen instead. This isnt possible on any touchscreen, hell my girl types super fast on her iPhone but she has to look down at what shes looking at.
No idea. But the reasoning they use seems fairly right. Google is playing a numbers game. By splitting Android across multiple manufacturers and carriers, they don't limit themselves in the number of products.
Only Apple has the iPhone. They release a new model, there's only 1 model on the market (purely vertical). Google so far has HTC, Motorola, Sony-Ericsson. If each of them only releases 1 new model, that's still a total of 3 models new to the market. They lay out a broad base and build up from there.
And this is only for the smartphone market. Android is being dabbled in in all kinds of electronics. Since it's open and more or less free, expect many more companies to jump on the bandwagon. It doesn't take a stretch of the mind to see how this numbers game works in Google's advantage.
Gartner (and you) seem to take for granted that the Windows-like branded software model (which is what Google is using except that Android is free) will be successful in consumer electronics. This despite the failure of PlaysforSure in mp3/media players, and WinMo in cellphones. And the model is just not being used for other electronics.
Gartner (and you) also assume that Apple will stick to the 1 model approach, despite it already having 3 models (3G, 3GS, China 3GS). I agree Apple won't make anything with less than a 3.2" multi-touch display and virtual keyboard, but there's still room for additional cellular models with different form factors. When the majority of the market moves to "app phones" instead of feature phones, I think Apple will have those additional models.
And if you're going to include other electronics for Android, then one needs to include Apple's iPod touch, the rumored "Tablet", and whatever comes next. I don't think Gartner's numbers included any projection for that.
If the Droid isn't more successful than other Android phones (given its prominent perch on the largest US carrier), and if it isn't way more successful than the Storm was on Verizon, it's quite possible that the Android fervor will start to cool off.
Seriously? I read that the predictive and autocorrect wasn?t as advanced as the iPhone?s, but I assumed that the physical keyboard would have it. Seems odd that it?s not the same engine regardless of the input source.
From Mossberg's review:
"Unfortunately for lovers of physical keyboards, I found the one on the Droid to be pretty awful [with] flat, cramped keys that induce too many typing errors, yet lacks auto-correction"
For starters that would apply to people who purchase a smartphone AFTER 11/15/09, so the majority of Droid users will be all set. Not to mention Verizon offers a 30 day trial period. After all of this it's still not 100% confirmed what "smartphones" the $350 ETF apply's to. So it's fair to say that you should NOT let the $350 ETF scare you away for this reason.
I don't think Verizon hopes that the majority of Droid users will have bought their Droid by 11/15/09. That's only 9 days of sales.
If it really is so, the Droid will be dead by Christmas.
Yes, limited multitasking. While it's impressive that my Storm can have 20+ apps open at the same time, it eats up memory really quickly. From what I've seen, Android lets you have 6 apps open at the same time. I'm not sure if it automatically does a rolling closing (rhymes!) of apps higher than 6.
Most people probably won't have 6 apps open at the same time. 10 is pushing it. Limited multitasking is a good balance between multitasking and making sure there's plenty of memory for those apps.
What I've found interesting on the iPhone is that quite a few streaming radio apps enable
"background processing" by switching you to a "virtual" Safari webpage when you quit the app so that it can keep playing music in the background. It works great except when I already have eight pages open in Safari and it automatically quits one of them on me.
Their profit margin per phone is very high and that's due to the fact of their exclusive agreements have netted them quite a lot. RIM sells their berrys around 340ish (depending on model) Apple would be in this same range, but with carriers like AT&T DESPERATE to keep customers in, they are willing to shell out 4-500 dollars per phone to Apple, and iirc it only costs roughly 210 bucks (not exact) to build, their making a killing.
Now that their going multi carrier i think we'll see even more profit obviously for hitting customers they couldnt reach before, but their profit per phone is going to plummet due to the end of exclusive agreements. Theres no doubt in my mind that if AT&T wasnt dumping so much money, Apple would be going to T-Mobile very soon (already there? I know T-Mo handles issues with my girls 2G, theres no doubt it would be a smash hit on their carrier) before going LTE and then take the entire US market.
Analysts don't point this out much but Apple gets additional dollars per phone, especially in the US, because unlike all the other handset makers, Apple does all the marketing, warranty support, and repair. And Apple has its own stores that sign up customers for AT&T. So even with multi-carriers, if Apple insists on and gets these same policies, it will still get more dollars per phone. (And it will have greater expenses per phone sold as well.)
Whether this shows up in the iPhone line or somewhere else in their revenue is unclear to me.
Comments
I am happy for Motorola that they at least appear to have something good in their hands, and I commend them for not giving up.
Here we see another American company that offers at least some competition to Apple (as did Palm sort of), instead of an overseas company from the Far East or Finland (or Canada for that matter).
In the past we gave up the development and (mass) production of cameras, audio and video equipment, more recently home and kitchen appliances and even automobiles are threatened, but it makes me proud to see the US continue to take the lead in the world of smart phones.
I will not buy a Droid (I am all Apple) but I do hope that the phone will be successful, eventually resulting in more US jobs. Next step: producing them here as well, something I always hoped and still hope Apple would consider.
RIM is doing good, so they don't really need to change their approach to smart phones dramatically. Like Apple do, you don't change wining formula.
Nokia, well. I believe their new (Linux based?) platform has potential. They are a bit slow to respond but considering their size, I'd say they have enough reserve to recover and bounce back before things go desperate.
And Nokia does have advantage over Apple, even at present. Even if "smart" part of Nokias leave much to be desired, "phone" part works much better than iPhone, I'm afraid.
Carrying company Nokia E63 and my iPhone 3Gs together across wide Auckland area - both on Vodafone 3G network, I did notice that Nokia is very happy with signal most of the time - actually haven't noticed it switching from 3G to 2G or even loosing more than 2 (out of 7) tabs of signal strength... while my beloved iPhone goes to 2G often and also sits on sad 1 tab of 3G signal a lot of time. I also caught 2 brief "no service" messages where Nokia was absolutely happy to oblige.
This is not a small difference, I'm afraid. Going rural (bushwalks, camping) would likely make 3Gs very useless phone around here.
As I have mentioned in different tread, I've compared my findings with 2 more 3Gs units, and all of them were equally touchy signal wise.
Great device, bellow average phone
The Blackberry is still the #1 smartphone and Apple hasn't been able to change that in two years. So I'm not sure where you get no one has been abot to release anything remotely successful, its more successful.
Unlike pre-iPhone, is there any US carrier still promoting a Blackberry as its best smartphone?
I think that will happen with iPhone OS v4.0 next summer, and will included with iPhones starting with the 3GS. My reasoning is, the 3GS has a fast enough CPU and enough RAM (256MB) to run many 3rd-app(s) in the background without adversely affecting performance. I think it will need to be setup like the Push Notifications settings, where you select from your list of viable 3rd-party apps to see which one(s) you want to keep running in the background when you press the Home Button.
I hope it'll come to the 3GS as that's what I have, but I'm not holding my breath. My contingency plan is to give my 3GS to my daughter...
It could be a network specific feature.
Does Apple offer free turn-by-turn navigation integrated
http://www.gsmarena.com/gsmfueled_mo...-news-1225.php
Then I'm sure you've missed the reports of Android topping the iPhone in marketshare by 2012. The new Android phones have specs to die for and every one that gets bought increases the exposure and userbase. Which means the developers will come en-masse. There's already been a 94% increase in development for Android apps within a month alone!
That was a Gartner analysis. And when has Gartner been right in predicting a future that is more than 3 months out?
Apparently this is not available on the GSM version being sold in Europe.
It could be a network specific feature.
http://www.gsmarena.com/gsmfueled_mo...-news-1225.php
It's actually a Google thing. Google has much more of the US mapped out in their database than Europe. So they're more confident that their mapping program will work as intended here.
Could you imagine what trouble they'd get into if their routing used the incomplete mapping information in Europe and constantly led people around wrong? They're just playing it smart and safe.
That was a Gartner analysis. And when has Gartner been right in predicting a future that is more than 3 months out?
No idea. But the reasoning they use seems fairly right. Google is playing a numbers game. By splitting Android across multiple manufacturers and carriers, they don't limit themselves in the number of products.
Only Apple has the iPhone. They release a new model, there's only 1 model on the market (purely vertical). Google so far has HTC, Motorola, Sony-Ericsson. If each of them only releases 1 new model, that's still a total of 3 models new to the market. They lay out a broad base and build up from there.
And this is only for the smartphone market. Android is being dabbled in in all kinds of electronics. Since it's open and more or less free, expect many more companies to jump on the bandwagon. It doesn't take a stretch of the mind to see how this numbers game works in Google's advantage.
It's actually a Google thing. Google has much more of the US mapped out in their database than Europe. So they're more confident that their mapping program will work as intended here.
Could you imagine what trouble they'd get into if their routing used the incomplete mapping information in Europe and constantly led people around wrong? They're just playing it smart and safe.
The roundabouts near my house which were replaced by traffic lights four years ago, still show up in Google maps as roundabouts even though the satellite pictures show traffic lights.
You pay peanuts you get monkeys.
....better be sure you like Verizon and the new DROID....termination fee has been doubled to $350.
http://www.thestreet.com/story/10622...s-outrage.html
For starters that would apply to people who purchase a smartphone AFTER 11/15/09, so the majority of Droid users will be all set. Not to mention Verizon offers a 30 day trial period. After all of this it's still not 100% confirmed what "smartphones" the $350 ETF apply's to. So it's fair to say that you should NOT let the $350 ETF scare you away for this reason.
Or if they trod all over other people's copyrights, Nokia with Navteq for example.
The roundabouts near my house which were replaced by traffic lights four years ago, still show up in Google maps as roundabouts even though the satellite pictures show traffic lights.
You pay peanuts you get monkeys.
Eh. 4 years is a long time, but no company's 100% perfect on their mapping software. Plus I'm sure Google doesn't expect you to blindly follow their directions without stopping at those lights and plow right through.
For starters that would apply to people who purchase a smartphone AFTER 11/15/09, so the majority of Droid users will be all set. Not to mention Verizon offers a 30 day trial period. After all of this it's still not 100% confirmed what "smartphones" the $350 ETF apply's to. So it's fair to say that you should NOT let the $350 ETF scare you away for this reason.
I agree that ETF shouldn?t scare anyone, but I don? t think the majority of Droid owners will reside within the first 9 days of launch.
PS: The ETF fee also drops by $5 each month. Since the $175 fee drops by $5 each month I think this one would have been more fair if it dropped $10 each month.
Their profit margin per phone is very high and that's due to the fact of their exclusive agreements have netted them quite a lot. RIM sells their berrys around 340ish (depending on model) Apple would be in this same range, but with carriers like AT&T DESPERATE to keep customers in, they are willing to shell out 4-500 dollars per phone to Apple, and iirc it only costs roughly 210 bucks (not exact) to build, their making a killing.
Now that their going multi carrier i think we'll see even more profit obviously for hitting customers they couldnt reach before, but their profit per phone is going to plummet due to the end of exclusive agreements. Theres no doubt in my mind that if AT&T wasnt dumping so much money, Apple would be going to T-Mobile very soon (already there? I know T-Mo handles issues with my girls 2G, theres no doubt it would be a smash hit on their carrier) before going LTE and then take the entire US market.
I?ve also read reviews of the physical keyboard not being as fast as typing with the virtual keyboard because the keys are too flush and don?t give enough tactile feedback when pressed, making it less natural to use than other physical keyboards.
Per these reviews, the Droid's physical keyboard also does not have predictive typing or autocorrect. Only the virtual keyboard includes it.
Per these reviews, the Droid's physical keyboard also does not have predictive typing or autocorrect. Only the virtual keyboard includes it.
Seriously? I read that the predictive and autocorrect wasn?t as advanced as the iPhone?s, but I assumed that the physical keyboard would have it. Seems odd that it?s not the same engine regardless of the input source.
Seriously? I read that the predictive and autocorrect wasn?t as advanced as the iPhone?s, but I assumed that the physical keyboard would have it. Seems odd that it?s not the same engine regardless of the input source.
Most physical qwerty phones dont offer autocorrect (they do, but on common misspelled words) which is good or bad depending on how you slice it. Its very easy to make a mistake on a touchscreen phone which is why good autocorrect is a must. I use my Bold, and i can feel out the keys, so i can easy type without looking at all down at the keyboard to see what im hitting but the screen instead. This isnt possible on any touchscreen, hell my girl types super fast on her iPhone but she has to look down at what shes looking at.
No idea. But the reasoning they use seems fairly right. Google is playing a numbers game. By splitting Android across multiple manufacturers and carriers, they don't limit themselves in the number of products.
Only Apple has the iPhone. They release a new model, there's only 1 model on the market (purely vertical). Google so far has HTC, Motorola, Sony-Ericsson. If each of them only releases 1 new model, that's still a total of 3 models new to the market. They lay out a broad base and build up from there.
And this is only for the smartphone market. Android is being dabbled in in all kinds of electronics. Since it's open and more or less free, expect many more companies to jump on the bandwagon. It doesn't take a stretch of the mind to see how this numbers game works in Google's advantage.
Gartner (and you) seem to take for granted that the Windows-like branded software model (which is what Google is using except that Android is free) will be successful in consumer electronics. This despite the failure of PlaysforSure in mp3/media players, and WinMo in cellphones. And the model is just not being used for other electronics.
Gartner (and you) also assume that Apple will stick to the 1 model approach, despite it already having 3 models (3G, 3GS, China 3GS). I agree Apple won't make anything with less than a 3.2" multi-touch display and virtual keyboard, but there's still room for additional cellular models with different form factors. When the majority of the market moves to "app phones" instead of feature phones, I think Apple will have those additional models.
And if you're going to include other electronics for Android, then one needs to include Apple's iPod touch, the rumored "Tablet", and whatever comes next. I don't think Gartner's numbers included any projection for that.
If the Droid isn't more successful than other Android phones (given its prominent perch on the largest US carrier), and if it isn't way more successful than the Storm was on Verizon, it's quite possible that the Android fervor will start to cool off.
Seriously? I read that the predictive and autocorrect wasn?t as advanced as the iPhone?s, but I assumed that the physical keyboard would have it. Seems odd that it?s not the same engine regardless of the input source.
From Mossberg's review:
"Unfortunately for lovers of physical keyboards, I found the one on the Droid to be pretty awful [with] flat, cramped keys that induce too many typing errors, yet lacks auto-correction"
For starters that would apply to people who purchase a smartphone AFTER 11/15/09, so the majority of Droid users will be all set. Not to mention Verizon offers a 30 day trial period. After all of this it's still not 100% confirmed what "smartphones" the $350 ETF apply's to. So it's fair to say that you should NOT let the $350 ETF scare you away for this reason.
I don't think Verizon hopes that the majority of Droid users will have bought their Droid by 11/15/09. That's only 9 days of sales.
If it really is so, the Droid will be dead by Christmas.
Yes, limited multitasking. While it's impressive that my Storm can have 20+ apps open at the same time, it eats up memory really quickly. From what I've seen, Android lets you have 6 apps open at the same time. I'm not sure if it automatically does a rolling closing (rhymes!) of apps higher than 6.
Most people probably won't have 6 apps open at the same time. 10 is pushing it. Limited multitasking is a good balance between multitasking and making sure there's plenty of memory for those apps.
What I've found interesting on the iPhone is that quite a few streaming radio apps enable
"background processing" by switching you to a "virtual" Safari webpage when you quit the app so that it can keep playing music in the background. It works great except when I already have eight pages open in Safari and it automatically quits one of them on me.
?and a crappy browser that you can't actually do multi touch zooming on...
Just to crystal clear here. The OS doesn?t have multi-touch, but the SDK allows developers to use it. More info and a video at the link below?
Their profit margin per phone is very high and that's due to the fact of their exclusive agreements have netted them quite a lot. RIM sells their berrys around 340ish (depending on model) Apple would be in this same range, but with carriers like AT&T DESPERATE to keep customers in, they are willing to shell out 4-500 dollars per phone to Apple, and iirc it only costs roughly 210 bucks (not exact) to build, their making a killing.
Now that their going multi carrier i think we'll see even more profit obviously for hitting customers they couldnt reach before, but their profit per phone is going to plummet due to the end of exclusive agreements. Theres no doubt in my mind that if AT&T wasnt dumping so much money, Apple would be going to T-Mobile very soon (already there? I know T-Mo handles issues with my girls 2G, theres no doubt it would be a smash hit on their carrier) before going LTE and then take the entire US market.
Analysts don't point this out much but Apple gets additional dollars per phone, especially in the US, because unlike all the other handset makers, Apple does all the marketing, warranty support, and repair. And Apple has its own stores that sign up customers for AT&T. So even with multi-carriers, if Apple insists on and gets these same policies, it will still get more dollars per phone. (And it will have greater expenses per phone sold as well.)
Whether this shows up in the iPhone line or somewhere else in their revenue is unclear to me.