It?s great how you are looking at this from only one perspective. Apple?s YoY marketshare percentage change is is 4.2% while RiM?s is 4.8%, but that doesn?t indicate each companies handset growth rate, which is important when determining their future potential.
Apple has a 49% growth rate while RiM?s is 47%. So we have a valid worthwhile metric where Apple is growing faster than RiM YoY. Neither of these in and of themselves are indicative of anything in the future. We can speculate what is likely to happen but we would have to include other factors to do so.
I think RiM?s BOGO and other revenue reducing tactics to push unit sales is important for determining what we may see for Q3-2010. With multi-touch capacitance touchscreens gaining in popularity I expect RiM?s growth to start slowing and their revenue and profits to start stagnating if thy can?t come out with a competing device for the consumer market. The Storm and Storm2 are not contenders.
You mean Verizon's BOGO right? If it were RIM's promotion, then why wouldn't they be doing it on AT&T and T-Mobile or any of the other carriers that provide BlackBerries?
They are nice, too bad the battery life isn?t? longer. I hope Apple goes the optical drive-less route with the next MBPs but this machine had to do to the thin case and 45W TDP of the quad-core 45nm Clarksdale Core-i7. I really hope Apple goes for the 35W TDP dual-core 32nm Arrandale Core-i7 next year, but there is some talk that Apple won?t use those chips. I?m not sure what else they could so I?ll take it with grain of salt.
That makes sense when you have a mouse/trackpad and keyboard in front of you. It?s a gimmick! Holding your arms up to use your computer as a touchscreen because it?s technical possible is not ?logical?.
Hm... I can see some use for it.
Convertible notebooks/tablets.
Also AIO desktops where you can shove keyboard/mouse aside (hide behind unit) and control media player/book reader/comics book reader/... directly on screen. Windows Media Center with it's huge on-screen buttons seem like designed for such use.
I'm not personally hot for touch screen larger than phone (just imagine cleaning fingerprints of 24" screen on the daily basis - and you can't even wipe it off your sleeve but I'd expect some people will like it. As, pretty much, anything else.
You mean Verizon's BOGO right? If it were RIM's promotion, then why wouldn't they be doing it on AT&T and T-Mobile or any of the other carriers that provide BlackBerries?
I used RiM because it was more than Verizon doing the BOGO. Maybe not in the US, but V wasn?t the only one. I can only imagine that RiM has lowered the cost of their handsets in order to secure more sales, especially if that sale also included access to a BES.
Also AIO desktops where you can shove keyboard/mouse aside (hide behind unit) and control media player/book reader/comics book reader/... directly on screen. Windows Media Center with it's huge on-screen buttons seem like designed for such use.
I'm not personally hot for touch screen larger than phone (just imagine cleaning fingerprints of 24" screen on the daily basis - and you can't even wipe it off your sleeve but I'd expect some people will like it. As, pretty much, anything else.
I’ve seen the demos at conventions, I’ve played with them. I see nothing more than a gimmick. adding “touchscreen capabilities” to a desktop OS does not equate to making the display a good input device. The OS needs to be rewritten to be usable in that way the way the iPhone’s button are designed to be clickable with fingers. This is why I think any Apple tablet will not be using Mac or iPhone OSes, but a new OS that has elements of both but designed specifically for a 1handheld,lap or tabled 10” device that you primarily use with your fingers.
The best I’ve seen is the HP TouchSmart PC which actually uses a new interface for interacting with your fingers, but that is still requiring the use to keep their arms up with using the device. SUch a device is designed for all day use. The biggest drawback is not with their UI but with the speed of the transitions and the bad choice of touchscreen technologies, which I think used beams of IR light in an x/y grid pattern to locate coordinates via interruptions.
Yes this is true, but 50 phones combined outselling 1 phone isn't an extraordinary feat. No one Android phone will outsell the iPhone alone.
I don't think that is too relevant.
We are talking about platform here, more than about physical phone.
Android platform does look promising and has good chance to attract users, which will attract software developers, which will attract more users... and so on.
And iPhone is actually not one. There are still 3 of them out there, adding to numbers.
We are talking about platform here, more than about physical phone.
Android platform does look promising and has good chance to attract users, which will attract software developers, which will attract more users... and so on.
And iPhone is actually not one. There are still 3 of them out there, adding to numbers.
Do we also count the Touch since it runs iPhone OS as well as anything based off of Android, including PMPs and netbooks?
I used RiM because it was more than Verizon doing the BOGO. Maybe not in the US, but V wasn’t the only one. I can only imagine that RiM has lowered the cost of their handsets in order to secure more sales, especially if that sale also included access to a BES.
I'm curious to which other carrier is doing this BOGO offer other than Verizon. So far, all my searching keeps bringing me back to Verizon. RIM may have lowered the cost a bit of their handsets but Verizon still has to buy them at that retail price. And in turn charges you for another line.
I'm surprised that no other carriers will do this offer once in a while. As much fun as Verizon is made fun of (and RIM indirectly), the BOGO works.
My real questions is how did the posts turn from the Google phone to RIM and MS bash-counterbashing?
I'm curious to which other carrier is doing this BOGO offer other than Verizon. So far, all my searching keeps bringing me back to Verizon. RIM may have lowered the cost a bit of their handsets but Verizon still has to buy them at that retail price. And in turn charges you for another line.
I'm surprised that no other carriers will do this offer once in a while. As much fun as Verizon is made fun of (and RIM indirectly), the BOGO works.
My real questions is how did the posts turn from the Google phone to RIM and MS bash-counterbashing?
1) I don?t recall which carriers which means i could very well be incorrect. I?ll try to look later when I get some time.
2) BOGO works in some ways but I think ultimately excessive discounts are not a good thing your customer should expect before considering to make a purchase. Frankly I don?t understand the draw to get a ?free? phone but with two 24 month plans. The number would seem small but their sales seem to show that it?s working.
3) This thread is 250 posts now so some an alteration from the original post is not unwarranted, especially with so little to discuss about this ?Google phone? . Just be glad we?re still talking about phones at all. So who do you think is going to win the World Cup next summer?
Correct, I most certainly wasn't joking. I'll repeat:
The iPhone was to the mobile industry (and still is) what Jesus was to the apostles.
Well... some people think he was scapegoat... or a martyr. Some people think he was a prophet, but nothing more. And then, there is official church teaching.
It pretty much depends on what part of mankind you ask. There is not a single, all-consuming truth.
The historical Jesus, or rather "Christus" as Tacitus, Suetonius and other Roman writers called him, did exist. Unfortunately, all we really know for sure is that he was born around Galilee during Tacitus' lifetime (reign of Nero), and that he was executed for causing disturbances. There is general scholarly agreement that Pilate was his judge. Those are really the only facts we have about him. As for the rest of the story, I really can't comment. The whole "Jesus as myth" thesis (which denies any existence of Jesus wholesale, historical or otherwise) is dead, and is not considered serious scholarship today. There was a historical "Jesus", but we know very little about him. Jesus was not important to the Romans of Tactius' day. He is barely a footnote in Tactitus' account of the imperial reign, for example. For the Romans, "Christus" was a common criminal and rabble-rouser. He was merely one of several on a list to be executed that day. That's it.
So all we really know is this:
"Jesus" was a real person, we know approximately when he was executed, and we know that Pilate (who did exist at the time) was his judge.
I don't think resistive screens are fail by default. Latest Samsung Omnia and relating units have resistive screen as sensitive as capacitive screens - according to reviews I have seen. If that is true, there is nice advantage being able to use phone with gloves, stylus... but also disadvantage of being forced to keep phone locked all the time as almost any light touch in pocket can initiate call/run application/...
As it is, I'm happy for not having to lock my iPhone before putting it in pocket... but whenever I need to sketch something, I realize I miss my Palm PDA stylus. Luckily I put phone in pocket much more often than I sketch
Perhaps not. But a capacitive screen doesn't have that feeling that you can scrape that top layer of screen off. Neither are they as responsive with fingers, period. Capacitive screens are glass on top and stuff like the Cowon A9 and anything else with Corning glass is near impossible to scratch.
I have yet to hear anyone's capacitive touchpad (except one person's macbooks) die, so I feel they are more reliable than resistive.
It's easy to paint a screen background, throw in some icons on a touch screen and claim to be an iPhone killer.
Then sooner or later the users start asking why do I need a track ball to navigate?
Why can't I just use my finger to get a magnifying bubble like the iPhone?
Why is Cut and Paste not as intuitive and simple as the iPhone?
Well, well well... it's the underlying technology stupid!
When you analyze the integration of the hardware, the OS, the graphics engine, the frameworks, the APIs, the whole integrated eco system etc... you then realize why the iPhone is still years ahead of any other smart phone and they are not standing still.
That's quite a statement of yours but it is not backed by facts. Let's go through your list...
1, 000 new API's.. YES TouchCocoa is complex.
PtoP...Android has it since version 1
In-App purchases...Android has it since Android Market debut
Ad-hoc..Android has it in 2.0
Spotlight..Android has it since 1.5
In App Email...Android has it since version 1
I am not sure about other features if they match what iPhone has 100% but this is just a quick check from the top of my head. Android is not a slouch, iPhone is already playing catchup in several areas.
You trying to say Android SDK is total nightmare or what ? I had chance to develop for both and I really prefer Android if I can because I like the SDK and API.
And you forget mention one cool feature of iPhone (from the very beginning of the iPhone SDK) :
Not sure if your investment into application development won't go flushed into toilet if Apple decides to reject your application. That's my favorite feature.
Tell me how much money can developers say their currently making or even had made before Apple stepped into the mobile app space?
APPLE HAS CREATED A COMPLETE ECOSYSTEM FOR DEVELOPERS
Android has not!! ... It may be a relevant SDK platform especially compared to the other tasteless software.
When was the last time you saw a android commercial promoting it's feature of apps??
How many Million Apps have users downloaded for android??
and the list goes on.... Apple does the WHOLE PACKAGE BETTER.... They actually get it right.... Android will be the next viable option for developers but in my eyes APPLE IS NUMERO UNO.
GOOGLE HASN'T FOCUSED ENOUGH TO PROMOTE AND GIVE DEVELOPERS THE FLEXIBILITY APPLE DOES
The “Nexus One” handset uses GSM technology, which means that in the U.S., only mobile customers who use AT&T (T) or T-Mobile’s networks could use the “unlocked” phone, anyway. But sources say Google’s decision to use GSM came only after Verizon Wireless (VZ), which uses the rival CDMA technology, declined to help Google push the new phone.
If true, this is an example of what I posted about earlier-- the problem of competing with your own partners. What if the Nexus One is quite a bit better than Droid? What does that do to Google's relationship with Verizon and Motorola?
And if it's not much better, why does it exist? It's not like there's a shortage of Android models.
I?ve seen the demos at conventions, I?ve played with them. I see nothing more than a gimmick. adding ?touchscreen capabilities? to a desktop OS does not equate to making the display a good input device. The OS needs to be rewritten to be usable in that way the way the iPhone?s button are designed to be clickable with fingers. This is why I think any Apple tablet will not be using Mac or iPhone OSes, but a new OS that has elements of both but designed specifically for a 1handheld,lap or tabled 10? device that you primarily use with your fingers.
The best I?ve seen is the HP TouchSmart PC which actually uses a new interface for interacting with your fingers, but that is still requiring the use to keep their arms up with using the device. SUch a device is designed for all day use. The biggest drawback is not with their UI but with the speed of the transitions and the bad choice of touchscreen technologies, which I think used beams of IR light in an x/y grid pattern to locate coordinates via interruptions.
The ModBook is a complete mess to me since it?s just Mac OS X.
Yeah, we actually had one of those HPs in our office not long ago.
Definitely not for everyone, and not for every task. But there is some potential waiting to be discovered.
I'm also waiting for opportunity to see little Asus EeePC with touch screen... I think it is T91 or something like that. In it's tablet form it could make decent eBook/Comics/... reader, while still having keyboard for an odd email or two. Contrary to large desktop touch screen, I can see myself using something like this little netbook.
Comments
Yeah don't they all look really excited in that picture.
Picture is pointless. 2 years ago all those people were sitting there with Dells. Where is Dell now..?
In two years, who knows what they will be having.
It?s great how you are looking at this from only one perspective. Apple?s YoY marketshare percentage change is is 4.2% while RiM?s is 4.8%, but that doesn?t indicate each companies handset growth rate, which is important when determining their future potential.
Apple has a 49% growth rate while RiM?s is 47%. So we have a valid worthwhile metric where Apple is growing faster than RiM YoY. Neither of these in and of themselves are indicative of anything in the future. We can speculate what is likely to happen but we would have to include other factors to do so.
I think RiM?s BOGO and other revenue reducing tactics to push unit sales is important for determining what we may see for Q3-2010. With multi-touch capacitance touchscreens gaining in popularity I expect RiM?s growth to start slowing and their revenue and profits to start stagnating if thy can?t come out with a competing device for the consumer market. The Storm and Storm2 are not contenders.
You mean Verizon's BOGO right? If it were RIM's promotion, then why wouldn't they be doing it on AT&T and T-Mobile or any of the other carriers that provide BlackBerries?
Actually I like Envy. Great stuff
image: http://cache.gizmodo.com/assets/imag...x_DSC_0310.jpg
They are nice, too bad the battery life isn?t? longer. I hope Apple goes the optical drive-less route with the next MBPs but this machine had to do to the thin case and 45W TDP of the quad-core 45nm Clarksdale Core-i7. I really hope Apple goes for the 35W TDP dual-core 32nm Arrandale Core-i7 next year, but there is some talk that Apple won?t use those chips. I?m not sure what else they could so I?ll take it with grain of salt.
That makes sense when you have a mouse/trackpad and keyboard in front of you. It?s a gimmick! Holding your arms up to use your computer as a touchscreen because it?s technical possible is not ?logical?.
Hm... I can see some use for it.
Convertible notebooks/tablets.
Also AIO desktops where you can shove keyboard/mouse aside (hide behind unit) and control media player/book reader/comics book reader/... directly on screen. Windows Media Center with it's huge on-screen buttons seem like designed for such use.
I'm not personally hot for touch screen larger than phone (just imagine cleaning fingerprints of 24" screen on the daily basis - and you can't even wipe it off your sleeve
You mean Verizon's BOGO right? If it were RIM's promotion, then why wouldn't they be doing it on AT&T and T-Mobile or any of the other carriers that provide BlackBerries?
I used RiM because it was more than Verizon doing the BOGO. Maybe not in the US, but V wasn?t the only one. I can only imagine that RiM has lowered the cost of their handsets in order to secure more sales, especially if that sale also included access to a BES.
Hm... I can see some use for it.
Convertible notebooks/tablets.
Also AIO desktops where you can shove keyboard/mouse aside (hide behind unit) and control media player/book reader/comics book reader/... directly on screen. Windows Media Center with it's huge on-screen buttons seem like designed for such use.
I'm not personally hot for touch screen larger than phone (just imagine cleaning fingerprints of 24" screen on the daily basis - and you can't even wipe it off your sleeve
I’ve seen the demos at conventions, I’ve played with them. I see nothing more than a gimmick. adding “touchscreen capabilities” to a desktop OS does not equate to making the display a good input device. The OS needs to be rewritten to be usable in that way the way the iPhone’s button are designed to be clickable with fingers. This is why I think any Apple tablet will not be using Mac or iPhone OSes, but a new OS that has elements of both but designed specifically for a 1handheld,lap or tabled 10” device that you primarily use with your fingers.
The best I’ve seen is the HP TouchSmart PC which actually uses a new interface for interacting with your fingers, but that is still requiring the use to keep their arms up with using the device. SUch a device is designed for all day use. The biggest drawback is not with their UI but with the speed of the transitions and the bad choice of touchscreen technologies, which I think used beams of IR light in an x/y grid pattern to locate coordinates via interruptions.The ModBook is a complete mess to me since it’s just Mac OS X.
You post BS, I post facts, numbers, trends. The things you like to ignore.
You also write about Jesus and apostles...
Yes this is true, but 50 phones combined outselling 1 phone isn't an extraordinary feat. No one Android phone will outsell the iPhone alone.
I don't think that is too relevant.
We are talking about platform here, more than about physical phone.
Android platform does look promising and has good chance to attract users, which will attract software developers, which will attract more users... and so on.
And iPhone is actually not one. There are still 3 of them out there, adding to numbers.
I don't think that is too relevant.
We are talking about platform here, more than about physical phone.
Android platform does look promising and has good chance to attract users, which will attract software developers, which will attract more users... and so on.
And iPhone is actually not one. There are still 3 of them out there, adding to numbers.
Do we also count the Touch since it runs iPhone OS as well as anything based off of Android, including PMPs and netbooks?
I used RiM because it was more than Verizon doing the BOGO. Maybe not in the US, but V wasn’t the only one. I can only imagine that RiM has lowered the cost of their handsets in order to secure more sales, especially if that sale also included access to a BES.
I'm curious to which other carrier is doing this BOGO offer other than Verizon. So far, all my searching keeps bringing me back to Verizon. RIM may have lowered the cost a bit of their handsets but Verizon still has to buy them at that retail price. And in turn charges you for another line.
I'm surprised that no other carriers will do this offer once in a while. As much fun as Verizon is made fun of (and RIM indirectly), the BOGO works.
My real questions is how did the posts turn from the Google phone to RIM and MS bash-counterbashing?
I'm curious to which other carrier is doing this BOGO offer other than Verizon. So far, all my searching keeps bringing me back to Verizon. RIM may have lowered the cost a bit of their handsets but Verizon still has to buy them at that retail price. And in turn charges you for another line.
I'm surprised that no other carriers will do this offer once in a while. As much fun as Verizon is made fun of (and RIM indirectly), the BOGO works.
My real questions is how did the posts turn from the Google phone to RIM and MS bash-counterbashing?
1) I don?t recall which carriers which means i could very well be incorrect. I?ll try to look later when I get some time.
2) BOGO works in some ways but I think ultimately excessive discounts are not a good thing your customer should expect before considering to make a purchase. Frankly I don?t understand the draw to get a ?free? phone but with two 24 month plans. The number would seem small but their sales seem to show that it?s working.
3) This thread is 250 posts now so some an alteration from the original post is not unwarranted, especially with so little to discuss about this ?Google phone? . Just be glad we?re still talking about phones at all. So who do you think is going to win the World Cup next summer?
You have to realize by now that AppleInsider never gives the full story, especially when it casts a competitor in a negative manner.
How is AppleInsider casting the competitor in a negative manner?
It has a virtual keyboard according to PC World.
AppleInsider also says it has a virtual keyboard...
Correct, I most certainly wasn't joking. I'll repeat:
The iPhone was to the mobile industry (and still is) what Jesus was to the apostles.
Well... some people think he was scapegoat... or a martyr. Some people think he was a prophet, but nothing more. And then, there is official church teaching.
It pretty much depends on what part of mankind you ask. There is not a single, all-consuming truth.
I'd say same works for Apple as well.
You also write about Jesus and apostles...
Yes. What's your point?
The historical Jesus, or rather "Christus" as Tacitus, Suetonius and other Roman writers called him, did exist. Unfortunately, all we really know for sure is that he was born around Galilee during Tacitus' lifetime (reign of Nero), and that he was executed for causing disturbances. There is general scholarly agreement that Pilate was his judge. Those are really the only facts we have about him. As for the rest of the story, I really can't comment. The whole "Jesus as myth" thesis (which denies any existence of Jesus wholesale, historical or otherwise) is dead, and is not considered serious scholarship today. There was a historical "Jesus", but we know very little about him. Jesus was not important to the Romans of Tactius' day. He is barely a footnote in Tactitus' account of the imperial reign, for example. For the Romans, "Christus" was a common criminal and rabble-rouser. He was merely one of several on a list to be executed that day. That's it.
So all we really know is this:
"Jesus" was a real person, we know approximately when he was executed, and we know that Pilate (who did exist at the time) was his judge.
I don't think resistive screens are fail by default. Latest Samsung Omnia and relating units have resistive screen as sensitive as capacitive screens - according to reviews I have seen. If that is true, there is nice advantage being able to use phone with gloves, stylus... but also disadvantage of being forced to keep phone locked all the time as almost any light touch in pocket can initiate call/run application/...
As it is, I'm happy for not having to lock my iPhone before putting it in pocket... but whenever I need to sketch something, I realize I miss my Palm PDA stylus. Luckily I put phone in pocket much more often than I sketch
Perhaps not. But a capacitive screen doesn't have that feeling that you can scrape that top layer of screen off. Neither are they as responsive with fingers, period. Capacitive screens are glass on top and stuff like the Cowon A9 and anything else with Corning glass is near impossible to scratch.
I have yet to hear anyone's capacitive touchpad (except one person's macbooks) die, so I feel they are more reliable than resistive.
Then sooner or later the users start asking why do I need a track ball to navigate?
Why can't I just use my finger to get a magnifying bubble like the iPhone?
Why is Cut and Paste not as intuitive and simple as the iPhone?
Well, well well... it's the underlying technology stupid!
When you analyze the integration of the hardware, the OS, the graphics engine, the frameworks, the APIs, the whole integrated eco system etc... you then realize why the iPhone is still years ahead of any other smart phone and they are not standing still.
http://images.appleinsider.com/android110509.png
Time will tell.
That's quite a statement of yours but it is not backed by facts. Let's go through your list...
1, 000 new API's.. YES TouchCocoa is complex.
PtoP...Android has it since version 1
In-App purchases...Android has it since Android Market debut
Ad-hoc..Android has it in 2.0
Spotlight..Android has it since 1.5
In App Email...Android has it since version 1
I am not sure about other features if they match what iPhone has 100% but this is just a quick check from the top of my head. Android is not a slouch, iPhone is already playing catchup in several areas.
You trying to say Android SDK is total nightmare or what ? I had chance to develop for both and I really prefer Android if I can because I like the SDK and API.
And you forget mention one cool feature of iPhone (from the very beginning of the iPhone SDK) :
Not sure if your investment into application development won't go flushed into toilet if Apple decides to reject your application. That's my favorite feature.
Tell me how much money can developers say their currently making or even had made before Apple stepped into the mobile app space?
APPLE HAS CREATED A COMPLETE ECOSYSTEM FOR DEVELOPERS
Android has not!! ... It may be a relevant SDK platform especially compared to the other tasteless software.
When was the last time you saw a android commercial promoting it's feature of apps??
How many Million Apps have users downloaded for android??
and the list goes on.... Apple does the WHOLE PACKAGE BETTER.... They actually get it right.... Android will be the next viable option for developers but in my eyes APPLE IS NUMERO UNO.
GOOGLE HASN'T FOCUSED ENOUGH TO PROMOTE AND GIVE DEVELOPERS THE FLEXIBILITY APPLE DOES
Actually I like Envy. Great stuff
Tasteless.... And un-innovative
The “Nexus One” handset uses GSM technology, which means that in the U.S., only mobile customers who use AT&T (T) or T-Mobile’s networks could use the “unlocked” phone, anyway. But sources say Google’s decision to use GSM came only after Verizon Wireless (VZ), which uses the rival CDMA technology, declined to help Google push the new phone.
If true, this is an example of what I posted about earlier-- the problem of competing with your own partners. What if the Nexus One is quite a bit better than Droid? What does that do to Google's relationship with Verizon and Motorola?
And if it's not much better, why does it exist? It's not like there's a shortage of Android models.
I?ve seen the demos at conventions, I?ve played with them. I see nothing more than a gimmick. adding ?touchscreen capabilities? to a desktop OS does not equate to making the display a good input device. The OS needs to be rewritten to be usable in that way the way the iPhone?s button are designed to be clickable with fingers. This is why I think any Apple tablet will not be using Mac or iPhone OSes, but a new OS that has elements of both but designed specifically for a 1handheld,lap or tabled 10? device that you primarily use with your fingers.
The best I?ve seen is the HP TouchSmart PC which actually uses a new interface for interacting with your fingers, but that is still requiring the use to keep their arms up with using the device. SUch a device is designed for all day use. The biggest drawback is not with their UI but with the speed of the transitions and the bad choice of touchscreen technologies, which I think used beams of IR light in an x/y grid pattern to locate coordinates via interruptions.The ModBook is a complete mess to me since it?s just Mac OS X.
Yeah, we actually had one of those HPs in our office not long ago.
Definitely not for everyone, and not for every task. But there is some potential waiting to be discovered.
I'm also waiting for opportunity to see little Asus EeePC with touch screen... I think it is T91 or something like that. In it's tablet form it could make decent eBook/Comics/... reader, while still having keyboard for an odd email or two. Contrary to large desktop touch screen, I can see myself using something like this little netbook.