Flash really sucks! I have an iMac that I share with my wife and three kids! Most of the time we are all logged on and the _only_ time it gets bogged down is when one of my kids leaves a Flash based website up on their login (either Safari or Firefox)! All I do when I notice that its getting slow is login to my kids accounts and kill the Flash page and then the system returns to normal functionality!
I for one applaud Jobs stance on Flash! It's old technology that is buggy and a CPU pig!
KRR
Actually I am not wrong if you have an iMac and its getting "bogged down" due to flash then you need to return it. Members here act like running a Flash is the same as Crysis on a 30" monitor...LOL. Also another myth it has very little to do with the CPU this would be far more of a GPU issue. Sad not even Steve Jobs understands that fact.
with all due respect everything you talked about is there to sell computers. If apple could have the same good will and fanatical fan base and sell crappy but cheaper to make computers they would
Your problem ? but certainly not yours alone ? is that you do not understand the difference between short-term financial benefits and long term benefits. Maximizing this year's profit at the expense of viability in ten year's time is why companies fail. Apple under Steve Jobs has been successful because it has NOT gone this route. Microsoft and Adobe suck because they do not get this. 'Vision' essentially means knowing that you have to take care of the future, because it arrives sooner than you think.
It's difficult for me not to see this as a simple case of Apple utilizing inferior hardware/software engineering.
Riiight. Apple and Microsoft, and Google, and Symbian, and Palm.... all of them use inferior hardware engineering, it is IMPOSSIBLE that flash is simply crappy.
Quote:
Why would simply using Adobe Flash so dramatically decrease battery life when Flash runs perfectly fine on essentially every Windows computer (including newer Pinetrail netbooks) without out radically impacting battery autonomy ?
1)It does not run perfectly fine on Windows. I can vouch for that as even when in my windows 7 partition my macbook gets its battery life cut by 33%
2)HINT HINT: Flash for Mac =/= Flash for Windows.
Quote:
It sure would be nice if Apple would just allow Adobe access to the appropriate APIs so that they can end all of this silliness.
It would be nicer if the whole industry abandoned this moribund platform.
It would also be nice to post opinions here on AppleInsider without stumbling upon Apple bashers' nonsense.
Quote:
The very worst that can happen is a reasonable drop in battery life, but ultimately the end-user will be afforded a better overall web/computing experience.
Err? Like someone here once said, most flash interaction depends on mouse-overs, which are impossible on touch-screened devices, so if web designers have to rewrite their stuff, why not do it on a newer, open and more resource-friendly standard?
"The very worst that can happen is a reasonable drop in battery life"
When the average consumer gets only 6:30 hours of battery life instead of 10, guess who they'll blame?
People would definitely care if flash was on their iPhone and their browser experience was extremely sluggish and their battery life was non-existant.
Yeah iPhone battery life sucks already even without flash. Its about 3 hours if your using the web. Fact is Apple hardware performance has always sucked compared to what the reast of the world is using. The fact their iMacs just now have quad cores speaks for itself.
I could see your point when it comes to the iPhone or any smartphone but there is no reason why a multi function Tablet can't run Flash. That is just a joke. This has very little to do with Flash and alot to do with Steve Job simply screwing his customers because he wants to try and prove a point. The fact is you should be able to decide if you want to add a plugin or not, everything should be made available to you.
Although Jobs comments are just rumor, if true, I do not think Jobs criticism is directed at Adobe's employees. Jobs is essentially saying that the company lacks vision and is happy just strumming along.
Further, Jobs's relationship with Abode is spotty. When Apple was struggling, Adobe's Mac support wasn't stellar. It was talking of dumping Mac development all together. Last thing Apple wants is to have to rely on an Adobe technology on the web. If Adobe decided it didn't want to develop for Macs anymore, Apple would suffer. Apple wants open source to rule the Internet.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blastdoor
My only little criticism of Jobs' Adobe bashing is when he calls Adobe "lazy." It is understandable that he would use that characterization, but that kind of statement makes it sound like Adobe employees spend all their time on Facebook. The real issue is that people in Adobe management choose to allocate resources in a way that results in Flash performing poorly -- that is, they choose not to spend resources on making it the best product it can be. That's not so much "lazy" as it is "bad management".
Problem is that most people can't see the bigger picture. Further, many people's short term interests might not be aligned with Apple's long term interests.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaHarder
[CENTER]Here's One Solution:
I'm sure most people are intelligent enough to make such a choice - if given.[/CENTER]
I think it's "openness" is sometimes under debate. You know, how something can be used for years and then someone comes out of the blue to sue you once it becomes popular.
That's some negative thinking
Quote:
Most importantly, Only Mozilla is supporting it in their browsers. A few of the supporters for H.264: Google in their videos, Apple in WebKit, Intel in HW acceleration, MS in Silverlight, Adobe in Flash [...] Blu-ray Consortium and many. many more. It's just too many to fight against.
I know H.264 has more support. Was just exemplifying that should things get ugly, H.264 isn't the only alternative out there.
This is why Apple and Steve Jobs is a joke when it comes to Flash. Look at these hardcore system requirements, Yeah Flash is a real hog.
PowerPC G5 1.8GHz or faster processor
Intel Core Duo 1.33GHz or faster processor
256MB of RAM
64MB of VRAM
Holy crap 64MB of VRAM. I think I had that in my system 8 years ago. How many here even have a G5? By the way these are the recommended requirements not the min.
This is if you jump up to a 1920x1080 you know full HD.
Intel Core Duo 2.66GHz processor (or equivalent)
512MB of RAM
128MB of VRAM
Yet again hardware I had 5 years ago. This is for Flash 10.
Maybe some of you should give up the Mac and get a Windows system seems like the requirements are next to nothing for full HD.
Problem is that most people can't see the bigger picture. Further, many people's short term interests might not be aligned with Apple's long term interests.
He doesn't get that it's Apple's device and they don't want to support something that degrades the UX.
Problem is that most people can't see the bigger picture. Further, many people's short term interests might not be aligned with Apple's long term interests.
[CENTER]You Mean Like...
If the option of successfully utilizing hundred-upon-hundreds-of-thousands of FLASH-based apps/games (Free-of-Charge) is made available to users, they might think twice about actually paying for (strikingly) similar content from the Apple/iTunes App Store?
He doesn't get that it's Apple's device and they don't want to support something that degrades the UX.
Maybe instead of Apple always trying to have a 51% gross margin like they do on the iPad they should give their customers the hardware required to run anything on the internet. However I know your "shareholder" brain can't think that way. If every other Tablet can run a fully functioning OS certainly SJ can boost his hardware specs to run something as simply as flash.
Not being able to run it on a true mobile device like the iPhone is acceptable however not being able to run it on a multi function Tablet isn't. Even more so when everyone here was talking about Slate computing taking over the world when it can't even handle Flash 10.
Instead of people beating up on Adobe they should turn their beat down on SJ for being stupid enough to build a Tablet running a mobile phone OS. That was really innovative.
Maybe instead of Apple always trying to have a 51% gross margin like they do on the iPad they should give their customers the hardware required to run anything on the internet. However I know your "shareholder" brain can't think that way. If every other Tablet can run a fully functioning OS certainly SJ can boost his hardware specs to run something as simply as flash.
Not being able to run it on a true mobile device like the iPhone is acceptable however not being able to run it on a multi function Tablet isn't. Even more so when everyone here was talking about Slate computing taking over the world when it can't even handle Flash 10.
Instead of people beating up on Adobe they should turn their beat down on SJ for being stupid enough to build a Tablet running a mobile phone OS. That was really innovative.
[CENTER]But...
'It's All About Apple's Design/UI/User Experience'
(Unless said 'Experience' involves viewing FLASH content - That is.)[/CENTER]
Instead of people beating up on Adobe they should turn their beat down on SJ for being stupid enough to build a Tablet running a mobile phone OS. That was really innovative.
Isn't that the truth. A puny large iPod hand held mobile device that runs iTunes Apps only?
If the option of successfully utilizing hundred-upon-hundreds-of-thousands of FLASH-based apps/games (Free-of-Charge) is made available to users, they might think twice about actually paying for (strikingly) similar content from the Apple/iTunes App Store?
[/CENTER]
it's so cute how you ignore the fact that nearly all Flash games and apps have to be rewritten because they were designed for a mouse and keyboard being present, not the occasional finger input.
Flash ads? Why would you want that? Flash video not gonna work on a slow ARM device fore any decent quality. It's really amazing how dense you can be and how your arguments keep getting weaker and weaker. You want something to want it like a child without even examing the fact of why it's not even available this far into 2010 yet you want to blame Apple all the way back to 2007.
PS: Where is the 64-bit version of Flash? ...and you this that Apple is the problem.
Instead of people beating up on Adobe they should turn their beat down on SJ for being stupid enough to build a Tablet running a mobile phone OS. That was really innovative.
Shoehorning a desktop OS into a tablet has been so successful. A decade or tablet sales and yet the iPad is what you're talking about, not all decade of tablets that have come and gone without fanfare because they were soooo Innovative.
PS: How did your troll math come out to a 51% gross margin?
Comments
Wrong!
Flash really sucks! I have an iMac that I share with my wife and three kids! Most of the time we are all logged on and the _only_ time it gets bogged down is when one of my kids leaves a Flash based website up on their login (either Safari or Firefox)! All I do when I notice that its getting slow is login to my kids accounts and kill the Flash page and then the system returns to normal functionality!
I for one applaud Jobs stance on Flash! It's old technology that is buggy and a CPU pig!
KRR
Actually I am not wrong if you have an iMac and its getting "bogged down" due to flash then you need to return it. Members here act like running a Flash is the same as Crysis on a 30" monitor...LOL. Also another myth it has very little to do with the CPU this would be far more of a GPU issue. Sad not even Steve Jobs understands that fact.
with all due respect everything you talked about is there to sell computers. If apple could have the same good will and fanatical fan base and sell crappy but cheaper to make computers they would
Your problem ? but certainly not yours alone ? is that you do not understand the difference between short-term financial benefits and long term benefits. Maximizing this year's profit at the expense of viability in ten year's time is why companies fail. Apple under Steve Jobs has been successful because it has NOT gone this route. Microsoft and Adobe suck because they do not get this. 'Vision' essentially means knowing that you have to take care of the future, because it arrives sooner than you think.
It's difficult for me not to see this as a simple case of Apple utilizing inferior hardware/software engineering.
Riiight. Apple and Microsoft, and Google, and Symbian, and Palm.... all of them use inferior hardware engineering, it is IMPOSSIBLE that flash is simply crappy.
Why would simply using Adobe Flash so dramatically decrease battery life when Flash runs perfectly fine on essentially every Windows computer (including newer Pinetrail netbooks) without out radically impacting battery autonomy ?
1)It does not run perfectly fine on Windows. I can vouch for that as even when in my windows 7 partition my macbook gets its battery life cut by 33%
2)HINT HINT: Flash for Mac =/= Flash for Windows.
It sure would be nice if Apple would just allow Adobe access to the appropriate APIs so that they can end all of this silliness.
It would be nicer if the whole industry abandoned this moribund platform.
It would also be nice to post opinions here on AppleInsider without stumbling upon Apple bashers' nonsense.
The very worst that can happen is a reasonable drop in battery life, but ultimately the end-user will be afforded a better overall web/computing experience.
Err? Like someone here once said, most flash interaction depends on mouse-overs, which are impossible on touch-screened devices, so if web designers have to rewrite their stuff, why not do it on a newer, open and more resource-friendly standard?
"The very worst that can happen is a reasonable drop in battery life"
When the average consumer gets only 6:30 hours of battery life instead of 10, guess who they'll blame?
People would definitely care if flash was on their iPhone and their browser experience was extremely sluggish and their battery life was non-existant.
Yeah iPhone battery life sucks already even without flash. Its about 3 hours if your using the web. Fact is Apple hardware performance has always sucked compared to what the reast of the world is using. The fact their iMacs just now have quad cores speaks for itself.
I could see your point when it comes to the iPhone or any smartphone but there is no reason why a multi function Tablet can't run Flash. That is just a joke. This has very little to do with Flash and alot to do with Steve Job simply screwing his customers because he wants to try and prove a point. The fact is you should be able to decide if you want to add a plugin or not, everything should be made available to you.
I'm sure most people are intelligent enough to make such a choice - if given.[/CENTER]
Further, Jobs's relationship with Abode is spotty. When Apple was struggling, Adobe's Mac support wasn't stellar. It was talking of dumping Mac development all together. Last thing Apple wants is to have to rely on an Adobe technology on the web. If Adobe decided it didn't want to develop for Macs anymore, Apple would suffer. Apple wants open source to rule the Internet.
My only little criticism of Jobs' Adobe bashing is when he calls Adobe "lazy." It is understandable that he would use that characterization, but that kind of statement makes it sound like Adobe employees spend all their time on Facebook. The real issue is that people in Adobe management choose to allocate resources in a way that results in Flash performing poorly -- that is, they choose not to spend resources on making it the best product it can be. That's not so much "lazy" as it is "bad management".
[edited for grammar failures]
[CENTER]Here's One Solution:
I'm sure most people are intelligent enough to make such a choice - if given.[/CENTER]
I think it's "openness" is sometimes under debate. You know, how something can be used for years and then someone comes out of the blue to sue you once it becomes popular.
That's some negative thinking
Most importantly, Only Mozilla is supporting it in their browsers. A few of the supporters for H.264: Google in their videos, Apple in WebKit, Intel in HW acceleration, MS in Silverlight, Adobe in Flash [...] Blu-ray Consortium and many. many more. It's just too many to fight against.
I know H.264 has more support. Was just exemplifying that should things get ugly, H.264 isn't the only alternative out there.
PowerPC G5 1.8GHz or faster processor
Intel Core Duo 1.33GHz or faster processor
256MB of RAM
64MB of VRAM
Holy crap 64MB of VRAM. I think I had that in my system 8 years ago. How many here even have a G5? By the way these are the recommended requirements not the min.
This is if you jump up to a 1920x1080 you know full HD.
Intel Core Duo 2.66GHz processor (or equivalent)
512MB of RAM
128MB of VRAM
Yet again hardware I had 5 years ago. This is for Flash 10.
Maybe some of you should give up the Mac and get a Windows system seems like the requirements are next to nothing for full HD.
Intel Core Duo 1.8GHz, AMD Athlon? 64 X2 4200+ processor (or equivalent)
128MB of RAM
64MB of VRAM
I think we can all see the CPU/GPU hog myth is just that, a myth.
[CENTER]Here's One Solution:
I'm sure most people are intelligent enough to make such a choice - if given.[/CENTER]
How about this solution:
See? Nothing to worry about. You just go to the browser and mind your own business.
While you ask "Is adopting Flash that hard?"
I in return say "Is letting it go that hard?"
Using this logic, please explain the rationale for Adobe to spend money developing Flash for Linux and Solaris.
I am not a programmer but my understanding is that mac has a unix kernel so the port to linux would not be that big a deal iwould think.
However it may (or may not) be a big deal to optimize for he mac and have worry about how it affects windows performance
Problem is that most people can't see the bigger picture. Further, many people's short term interests might not be aligned with Apple's long term interests.
He doesn't get that it's Apple's device and they don't want to support something that degrades the UX.
Problem is that most people can't see the bigger picture. Further, many people's short term interests might not be aligned with Apple's long term interests.
[CENTER]You Mean Like...
If the option of successfully utilizing hundred-upon-hundreds-of-thousands of FLASH-based apps/games (Free-of-Charge) is made available to users, they might think twice about actually paying for (strikingly) similar content from the Apple/iTunes App Store?
He doesn't get that it's Apple's device and they don't want to support something that degrades the UX.
Maybe instead of Apple always trying to have a 51% gross margin like they do on the iPad they should give their customers the hardware required to run anything on the internet. However I know your "shareholder" brain can't think that way. If every other Tablet can run a fully functioning OS certainly SJ can boost his hardware specs to run something as simply as flash.
Not being able to run it on a true mobile device like the iPhone is acceptable however not being able to run it on a multi function Tablet isn't. Even more so when everyone here was talking about Slate computing taking over the world when it can't even handle Flash 10.
Instead of people beating up on Adobe they should turn their beat down on SJ for being stupid enough to build a Tablet running a mobile phone OS. That was really innovative.
Maybe instead of Apple always trying to have a 51% gross margin like they do on the iPad they should give their customers the hardware required to run anything on the internet. However I know your "shareholder" brain can't think that way. If every other Tablet can run a fully functioning OS certainly SJ can boost his hardware specs to run something as simply as flash.
Not being able to run it on a true mobile device like the iPhone is acceptable however not being able to run it on a multi function Tablet isn't. Even more so when everyone here was talking about Slate computing taking over the world when it can't even handle Flash 10.
Instead of people beating up on Adobe they should turn their beat down on SJ for being stupid enough to build a Tablet running a mobile phone OS. That was really innovative.
[CENTER]But...
'It's All About Apple's Design/UI/User Experience'
(Unless said 'Experience' involves viewing FLASH content - That is.)[/CENTER]
Instead of people beating up on Adobe they should turn their beat down on SJ for being stupid enough to build a Tablet running a mobile phone OS. That was really innovative.
Isn't that the truth. A puny large iPod hand held mobile device that runs iTunes Apps only?
[CENTER]You Mean Like...
If the option of successfully utilizing hundred-upon-hundreds-of-thousands of FLASH-based apps/games (Free-of-Charge) is made available to users, they might think twice about actually paying for (strikingly) similar content from the Apple/iTunes App Store?
it's so cute how you ignore the fact that nearly all Flash games and apps have to be rewritten because they were designed for a mouse and keyboard being present, not the occasional finger input.
Flash ads? Why would you want that? Flash video not gonna work on a slow ARM device fore any decent quality. It's really amazing how dense you can be and how your arguments keep getting weaker and weaker. You want something to want it like a child without even examing the fact of why it's not even available this far into 2010 yet you want to blame Apple all the way back to 2007.
PS: Where is the 64-bit version of Flash? ...and you this that Apple is the problem.
Instead of people beating up on Adobe they should turn their beat down on SJ for being stupid enough to build a Tablet running a mobile phone OS. That was really innovative.
Shoehorning a desktop OS into a tablet has been so successful. A decade or tablet sales and yet the iPad is what you're talking about, not all decade of tablets that have come and gone without fanfare because they were soooo Innovative.
PS: How did your troll math come out to a 51% gross margin?
PPS: Don't be jealous of my mad business skills.
ClickToFlash saved my life.