[quote]Anything that will cede a centimeter of our national lands to the Arabs is a bad idea and a bad deal. If you don't understand this than you don't understand this. This is a band-aid solution and it will ultimately fail. You are underestimating Jewish resolve. The wheels of history grind slowly, but you can still get a glimpse of our resolve and determination. <hr></blockquote>
determination to do what? <img src="confused.gif" border="0">
The day I agree with Mika or he say something nice about us I would start worrying. As long as Mika see me as a joke and you as nothing but a frog eater I understand the world and can relax.
Either <a href="http://www.un.org/Depts/dpa/qpal/maps/M0082c.gif"; target="_blank">this</a> or nothing at all. It would be a strech to let you have the pre 67 area but nonetheless even the arab countries are prepared to give you that.
Since all arab states are willing to accept the pre-67 borders (saudi-proposal). I think we should use this alternative as a basis for discussion. Why is it so hard for israel to accept this deal? Any thoughts?
<strong>hahahah. You think we need your permission?
Man, are you people sad...
mika.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Mika,
you do not need permission to take it. Israel obviously is strong enough to hold her own. However, if they are willing to cede that point and say that this is the amount of land that they would need to stop the violence then that is seen as a step foreward in my eyes and in the eyes of the world. I am unsure however whether this would acutally succeed in ending the violence. If the terrorism continued and expanded I could see Israel easily taking back the territory and being justified once more. Only this time, I would keep it for good. Not my decision, and it seems to be gambling with innocent civilian lives...
{edit} After looking at the map I would be inclined not to see that as a good thing. It basically cuts Israel in half and surrounds Jerusalem with the Arab state. Great Idea. <img src="graemlins/oyvey.gif" border="0" alt="[No]" /> Let's just move Washington DC to Cuba. The US is strong enough to hold it and defend it, but what is the point? <img src="confused.gif" border="0">
Well, guantanamo has been around for a while now... but that's off issue.
Could anything be done to ensure Isreal's security issues?
Say Israel withdrew to the 67 borders, under the conditions that a large international task-force moved into the previously israeli controled areas for a longer transitional period?
I should have been more precise. What I meant to say is that the Europeans, and the UN, had long ago lost any kind of moral suasion here, if ever had they any.
There is only one nation that Israel should listen to and take into consideration. That nation is the United States. And I support close tactical coordination between the two.
mika.
[ 04-25-2002: Message edited by: PC^KILLA ]
Edit:
So tactically I basically agree with you Noah. I don't think the Arabs will disappoint ...
<strong>After looking at the map I would be inclined not to see that as a good thing. It basically cuts Israel in half and surrounds Jerusalem with the Arab state. Great Idea. <img src="graemlins/oyvey.gif" border="0" alt="[No]" /> Let's just move Washington DC to Cuba. The US is strong enough to hold it and defend it, but what is the point?
</strong><hr></blockquote>
If it is the link in my post you are referring to please note that its the 48 boarders and NOT the boarders New, the arab countries or I want Israel to have.
<strong>Well, guantanamo has been around for a while now... but that's off issue.
Could anything be done to ensure Isreal's security issues?
Say Israel withdrew to the 67 borders, under the conditions that a large international task-force moved into the previously israeli controled areas for a longer transitional period?
[ 04-25-2002: Message edited by: New ]</strong><hr></blockquote>
Yes, glad you are keeping in mind that Guantanamo is a miltary base and DC is the Capital of the Nation and all.
As far as a large international task force keeping peace for a transition time. Could work, but then to me you are starting to get into grey areas. It begins slipping for me into another thread of mine on End Times Prophecy...
Either <a href="http://www.un.org/Depts/dpa/qpal/maps/M0082c.gif"; target="_blank">this</a> or nothing at all. It would be a strech to let you have the pre 67 area but nonetheless even the arab countries are prepared to give you that.</strong><hr></blockquote>
<strong>Since all arab states are willing to accept the pre-67 borders (saudi-proposal). I think we should use this alternative as a basis for discussion. Why is it so hard for israel to accept this deal? Any thoughts?</strong><hr></blockquote>
The pre 1967 border leaves israel too vulnerable. It would be 8 miles wide at its center. If the Arabs would yield on land and the Israelis would yield on the settlements there would be hope.............
Comments
<strong>
ahh Yes. The French always appreciate the finer things in life ? Keep to your frogies Frenchi !
mika.
[ 04-25-2002: Message edited by: PC^KILLA ]</strong><hr></blockquote>
I am sure that Anders will appreciate such a compliment coming from you
determination to do what? <img src="confused.gif" border="0">
<strong>
determination to do what?
?!?
Get back what is ours !
mika.
[ 04-25-2002: Message edited by: PC^KILLA ]</p>
<strong>
I am sure that Anders will appreciate such a compliment coming from you
<img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" />
The day I agree with Mika or he say something nice about us I would start worrying. As long as Mika see me as a joke and you as nothing but a frog eater I understand the world and can relax.
How much of it?
To what cost?
<strong>
?!?
Get back what is ours.
mika.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Either <a href="http://www.un.org/Depts/dpa/qpal/maps/M0082c.gif"; target="_blank">this</a> or nothing at all. It would be a strech to let you have the pre 67 area but nonetheless even the arab countries are prepared to give you that.
? nonetheless even the arab countries are prepared to give you that.
hahahah. You think we need your permission ...
Man, are you sad...
mika.
[ 04-25-2002: Message edited by: PC^KILLA ]</p>
<strong>hahahah. You think we need your permission?
Man, are you people sad...
mika.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Mika,
you do not need permission to take it. Israel obviously is strong enough to hold her own. However, if they are willing to cede that point and say that this is the amount of land that they would need to stop the violence then that is seen as a step foreward in my eyes and in the eyes of the world. I am unsure however whether this would acutally succeed in ending the violence. If the terrorism continued and expanded I could see Israel easily taking back the territory and being justified once more. Only this time, I would keep it for good. Not my decision, and it seems to be gambling with innocent civilian lives...
{edit} After looking at the map I would be inclined not to see that as a good thing. It basically cuts Israel in half and surrounds Jerusalem with the Arab state. Great Idea. <img src="graemlins/oyvey.gif" border="0" alt="[No]" /> Let's just move Washington DC to Cuba. The US is strong enough to hold it and defend it, but what is the point? <img src="confused.gif" border="0">
[ 04-25-2002: Message edited by: NoahJ ]</p>
Could anything be done to ensure Isreal's security issues?
Say Israel withdrew to the 67 borders, under the conditions that a large international task-force moved into the previously israeli controled areas for a longer transitional period?
[ 04-25-2002: Message edited by: New ]</p>
There is only one nation that Israel should listen to and take into consideration. That nation is the United States. And I support close tactical coordination between the two.
mika.
[ 04-25-2002: Message edited by: PC^KILLA ]
Edit:
So tactically I basically agree with you Noah. I don't think the Arabs will disappoint ...
[ 04-25-2002: Message edited by: PC^KILLA ]</p>
<strong>After looking at the map I would be inclined not to see that as a good thing. It basically cuts Israel in half and surrounds Jerusalem with the Arab state. Great Idea. <img src="graemlins/oyvey.gif" border="0" alt="[No]" /> Let's just move Washington DC to Cuba. The US is strong enough to hold it and defend it, but what is the point?
</strong><hr></blockquote>
If it is the link in my post you are referring to please note that its the 48 boarders and NOT the boarders New, the arab countries or I want Israel to have.
<strong>Well, guantanamo has been around for a while now... but that's off issue.
Could anything be done to ensure Isreal's security issues?
Say Israel withdrew to the 67 borders, under the conditions that a large international task-force moved into the previously israeli controled areas for a longer transitional period?
[ 04-25-2002: Message edited by: New ]</strong><hr></blockquote>
Yes, glad you are keeping in mind that Guantanamo is a miltary base and DC is the Capital of the Nation and all.
As far as a large international task force keeping peace for a transition time. Could work, but then to me you are starting to get into grey areas. It begins slipping for me into another thread of mine on End Times Prophecy...
<strong>
Either <a href="http://www.un.org/Depts/dpa/qpal/maps/M0082c.gif"; target="_blank">this</a> or nothing at all. It would be a strech to let you have the pre 67 area but nonetheless even the arab countries are prepared to give you that.</strong><hr></blockquote>
This is the map I was referring to. No way...
<strong>
This is the map I was referring to. No way...</strong><hr></blockquote>
I agree. What "we" want Israel to be is the grey area on this <a href="http://www.passia.org/images/pal_facts_MAPS/greater_israel_after_june67.gif"; target="_blank">map</a>
To meet you on your own turf, how do you feel on the end-time prophecies relating the state of israel to armageddon?
[ 04-25-2002: Message edited by: New ]
[ 04-25-2002: Message edited by: New ]</p>
<strong>Since all arab states are willing to accept the pre-67 borders (saudi-proposal). I think we should use this alternative as a basis for discussion. Why is it so hard for israel to accept this deal? Any thoughts?</strong><hr></blockquote>
The pre 1967 border leaves israel too vulnerable. It would be 8 miles wide at its center. If the Arabs would yield on land and the Israelis would yield on the settlements there would be hope.............
<strong>Noah, Have a look at the map I posted. or the one anders posted above. We are talking about the dark-grey areas (on my map).
To meet you on your own turf, how do you feel on the end-time prophecies relating the state of israel to armageddon?</strong><hr></blockquote>
I will look at the map and see what I think.
As far as the second question. That will be covered in my thread eventually I think.
<a href="http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2002/04/24/1019441265555.html"; target="_blank">http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2002/04/24/1019441265555.html</a>;
mika.