However they came to this figure, the sad part is this is from one of Israel's "allies" that has signed a peace treaty with them...</strong><hr></blockquote>
I wouldn?t call Egypt an ally of Israel?s. I wouldn?t even call her an ally of the U.S. But that?s not for me to decide. Most Israelis know the peace treaty is a sham. Egypt signed it to get American military and financial aid. In the hope to eventually match Israel in the battlefield with their American made armor ?
Usually I get angry when I hear about these suicide bombings, but this one just made me sad. Maybe Palestinians will see what they've become.
[quote]Ismail Abu Nada, 13, left a letter asking his parents for their forgiveness. Yossef Zaqot, 14, wanted his mother to pay the 30 cents he owed the corner grocer. And Anwar Hamdona, 14, requested that the three friends be buried together, as martyrs. He got his wish.
Islamic militant groups have denied they had sent the teenagers, and some have condemned the attacks and called on Palestinian children to "save their precious blood."
Hamas, which has sent scores of members on suicide missions against Israelis, described the actions of the schoolboys as a "national catastrophe," and said children should only contemplate such missions when they are older and have been trained.<hr></blockquote>
I wouldn?t call Egypt an ally of Israel?s. I wouldn?t even call her an ally of the U.S. But that?s not for me to decide. Most Israelis know the peace treaty is a sham. Egypt signed it to get American military and financial aid. In the hope to eventually match Israel in the battlefield with their American made armor ?
mika.</strong><hr></blockquote>
That is quite true .. although I wouldn't go that far Egypt is still one of the more moderate states in the Mid-East and is an important part of US strategy in the region....the peace treaty with it has only done Israel good !
Re all the talk about US Aid to Israel , do you guys know that since Egypt signed the peace with Israel its been getting something like 2.5 Bn $ a year in Aid from the US ?
what is the US getting in return ?
.... very little ( apart from a degree of stability in the area ) Egypt won't even support US on key issues like the war in Afghanistan and Iraq..
Not to mention the US's 'greatest' ally in the region Saudi Arabia which didn't even allow the US to use its own (US) bases (which were setup to protect the Saudi kingdom with US's soldiers lives) on its soil to participate in the attacks against the Taliban and Al-Queda in Afghanistan.
I think the US is getting a slightly better return on its investments with Israel ...
The middle east is a rough neighbourhood ! which is another reason why Israel is so paranoid and weary of the Palestinians and its neighbours intentions.
Usually I get angry when I hear about these suicide bombings, but this one just made me sad. Maybe Palestinians will see what they've become.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
That's hardly surprising when you raise a whole generation of kids on the idea of Martyrdom and the Evil of Israel and when you have a leader like Arafat who constantly supports these actions in secret and who himself screams on world wide TV - ' I want to be a martyr a martyr a martyr !!!'
I really can't understand the Palestinians any more .. if they stop the violence and use non-violent tactics against the occupation they WILL get their state ! its so obvious, they are soo shooting themselves in the foot by their actions.
If the violence stops form the Palestinian side NO Israeli PM will be able to maintain the occupation .. the whole world ( and most Israelis ) would force him to settle in a land for peace deal. using something like the tactics that Gandhi used in India is far more effective in the current state of things....
Probably its Arafat and his henchmen's fault. they seem to rely on the hatred and fear the war creates in order to maintain their corrupt regime..... so so sad !
And with your room we offer an upgraded rental car, flack jacket, bulletproof helmet, and a special on dinner tonight. Enjoy your stay, I will be on active duty if you need me. -The hotel manager.
[quote] I think the US is getting a slightly better return on its investments with Israel ... <hr></blockquote>
What return would that be?
[quote]using something like the tactics that Gandhi used in India is far more effective in the current state of things. <hr></blockquote>
"Palestine belongs to the Arabs in the same sense that England belongs to the English or France to the French...What is going on in Palestine today cannot be justified by any moral code of conduct...If they [the Jews] must look to the Palestine of geography as their national home, it is wrong to enter it under the shadow of the British gun. A religious act cannot be performed with the aid of the bayonet or the bomb. They can settle in Palestine only by the goodwill of the Arabs... As it is, they are co-sharers with the British in despoiling a people who have done no wrong to them. I am not defending the Arab excesses. I wish they had chosen the way of non-violence in resisting what they rightly regard as an unacceptable encroachment upon their country. But according to the accepted canons of right and wrong, nothing can be said against the Arab resistance in the face of overwhelming odds." Mahatma Gandhi, quoted in "A Land of Two Peoples" ed. Mendes-Flohr.
Dr. Mubarak Awad, was expelled from East Jerusalem by Israel, because he advocated a non-violent civil revolt.Just because you don't here about non-violent protests, doesn't meen they don't exist. Non-violent tactics are used, but are failing to draw any of the attention. Mostly because powerful nations like the US have not reacted at all to repeatedly human rights abuse by the israelis.
What kind of non-violent protest by the palestinians do you think would be effective?
The israelis have pretty much gotten away with treating the palestinians like a paria. And like ANC did in the 60s, the palestinians have chosen to armed struggle.
When a palestinian teenager say he wants to be a martyr, it is under the sad realistation that his death is more than likely the best way to bring attention to the palestinian struggle, like this article shows. Very sad indeed...
[quote] And if you dig a little deeper you'll see the Arabs owe it to the Indians: <hr></blockquote>
Yes, and the indians owe it to the greeks, so what? You still wouldn't have algebra or the number zero if it wasn't for arabic mathematicians... the Arab world developed modern math, while europe was busy burning whatever greek texts they could find... They also made great agricultural, muscial, technical, naval/navigational and artistical advances that we base our modern knowledge societies on.
Wouldn't it have been cheaper for the US to do the bombing themselves. Or better yet, not have supported him in the first place...
Boy, are you dense. (and ungrateful). America was diplomatically hamstrung, and was NOT prepared at that time to pay the price diplomatically. Israel was left to carry the diplomatic burden all on it?s own shoulders.
quote:
We owe modern mathemetics to the Arab world. Like the numeric system you use every day...
We?ve already addressed that fable earlier in this thread..
quote:
Ancient Islamic civilizations invented the ARABIC number system we use today?
I don?t mind you giving credit to Moslems or Arabs when that credit is due. But in this case, it is not. You might want to pick up the book by Charles Seife titled: "Zero: The Biography of a Dangerous Idea". It petty much answers that idiotic claim.
Palestine belongs to the Arabs in the same sense that England belongs to the English or France to the French?
We?ve addressed that too?
quote:
Israel belongs to the Arabs, just as much as North Africa, Spain, Serbia, Hungary, Austria, India, etc. belongs to the Arabs. You get my point? They?re a barbaric, empire building peoples who expanded their empire through the sword. To rationalize their claims to our land, without even addressing this issue, is highly suspect in my judgment.
And concerning the freedom of the press, this is quite interesting. Seems to me that not only the palestinians are fed one-sided information:
Israel Radio defines Arabic Newspeak
By Ori Nir, Haaretz
Journalists in the Arabic language department of Israel Radio must not use the word "victim" when referring to Palestinian civilians killed in the intifada, according to guidelines distributed a week ago to editors and journalists at Reshet Daled, the Arabic station of Israel Radio. Instead of "victim" broadcasters should say "the dead"(katla).
The guidelines include other instructions on the use of certain expressions:
l "Quotations of Palestinians or Arabs should not be preceded by the word `akkada'" which means "underscored." This, says the guide, might "give the impression that you support or identify with the quote."
l The word "version" should not be used to describe statements by "official Israeli spokespersons" - like the Israeli Defense Forces - "because this gives the impression you are casting doubt on the statement." But it does add "there is no restriction on using the word when referring to the Palestinian side."
l When an official Israeli spokesman, such as the IDF spokesman, denies "lies and slander like the massacre in Jenin, it is not sufficient to use the expression `nafa' [denied] as has been done in some broadcasts." Instead, journalists must use verbs that make clear the allegations are a lie, and reiterate this by adding at the end: "The spokesman underscored that these slanderous allegations are entirely false and baseless."
l When a Knesset member contradicts or refutes statements by the prime minister "never use expressions such as `refuted' or `contradicted,' but say instead: `The Knesset member objected, or expressed his objections to, the prime minister's statement."
l The word "assassination" should not be used in referring to Israel's assassinations of Palestinian activists. Instead the word "killing" (katal in Arabic) should be used for those actions which the IDF itself calls "targeted assassinations."
Journalists in the Arabic news department say that since the intifada began in the territories a year and a half ago, there has been considerable management interference in broadcasting. Several employees argue that this harms the reputation for reliability and integrity which the station has among its Arab Israeli listeners and in the Arab world.
Edmond Skhayyek, the head of the department, said the guidelines have yet to be approved and he has not taken a position on the directives. He said they had not yet been distributed in the department, but employees denied this.
Yes, and the indians owe it to the greeks, so what? You still wouldn't have algebra or the number zero if it wasn't for arabic mathematicians... </strong><hr></blockquote>
No they don't !
And you really gotta stop with that parroting of Arab myths and propaganda ?
It?s about time someome tried to address these home grown Arab propagandist. They still need to address the Hebrew and English language department, in both radio and TV !
But why not take a cue from the Arabs and tie them people to a car and drag them through the streets. Or maybe a public lynching will do better?
The greeks in their turn owe it to the babylonians and ancient egypt... Why is this so hard for you?
You seem to have a heavy case of arab-phobia... Don't you have any positive things to say about islamic/arab culture at all?
[quote]Boy, are you dense. (and ungrateful). America was diplomatically hamstrung, and was NOT prepared at that time to pay the price diplomatically. Israel was left to carry the diplomatic burden all on it?s own shoulders.<hr></blockquote>
What do I have to be thankful about? The US founding Sadam in the firstplace? The israelis beeing the only nulear power in the region? Why are we even discussing this? It still doesn't justify any of the israeli behavior in the Occupied territories.
[quote]We owe modern mathemetics to the Arab world. Like the numeric system you use every day...
We?ve already addressed that fable earlier in this thread..
quote:
Ancient Islamic civilizations invented the ARABIC number system we use today?
I don?t mind you giving credit to Moslems or Arabs when that credit is due. But in this case, it is not. You might want to pick up the book by Charles Seife titled: "Zero: The Biography of a Dangerous Idea". It petty much answers that idiotic claim.
I never said they invented anything by themselves. They developed modern mathematics. And not even you, Irving, can deny this. or what about the astrolabe? heard about it? a fable to?
[quote]
Palestine belongs to the Arabs in the same sense that England belongs to the English or France to the French?
We?ve addressed that too?
<hr></blockquote>
Why don't we adress it again, since you never adressed any of my historic references?
[quote]They?re a barbaric, empire building peoples who expanded their empire through the sword. To rationalize their claims to our land, without even addressing this issue, is highly suspect in my judgment. <hr></blockquote>
well, to be honest your judgement doesn't score very high with me. Did you know that Islam has been spread with merchants and trade just as much (if not more), than with force? Chrisitianity has a much darker history on this point...
Seems like you answered that already. (Sans Egypt).
quote:
I never said they invented anything by themselves.
heheh ? I agree.
quote
They developed modern mathematics?
Hmm ? Just out of curiosity, what else do you consider is ?modern? mathematics?
quote
Why don't we adress it again, since you never adressed any of my historic references?
Maybe it?s because your ?historic references?, Irving, are not historic? You can copy and paste all the Second hand Arab propaganda you like, it doesn?t make it any more truthful. Although, that?s a very common method that propagandist use. Repeat a lie often enough, and it becomes the truth.
quote:
What do I have to be thankful about?
Like I said ? ungrateful!\t
quote:
Did you know that Islam has been spread with merchants and trade just as much (if not more), than with force? Chrisitianity has a much darker history on this point...
And your point is?
They?re a barbaric, empire building peoples who expanded their empire through the sword. To rationalize their claims to our land, without even addressing this issue, is highly suspect in my judgment.
[quote] Seems like you answered that already. (Sans Egypt) <hr></blockquote>
So who built the pyramids? ze martians?
[quote] I never said they invented anything by themselves.
heheh ? I agree. <hr></blockquote>
You are twisting my statement. They invented Algebra for instance.
[quote] Just out of curiosity, what else do you consider is ?modern? mathematics? <hr></blockquote>
well I'm not an expert on this, but our whole way of working with numbers I believe.
Decimals, Roots, Algebra, Algoritm, differenet aspects of trigonometry...
What I find more interesting is You having such a hard time with this.
[quote] Like I said ? ungrateful! <hr></blockquote>
So the state of Israel has done important things for me? like what?
[quote] To rationalize their claims to our land, without even addressing this issue, is highly suspect in my judgment. <hr></blockquote>
Your claims to the land are the ones that are highly suspect. Yet the arabs are willing to recognize Israel with the pre-67 borders. Why isn't that enough for you?
[quote] You can copy and paste all the Second hand Arab propaganda you like, it doesn?t make it any more truthful. Although, that?s a very common method that propagandist use. Repeat a lie often enough, and it becomes the truth. <hr></blockquote>
Like the land was empty you mean? Why don't you just show how it is all incorrect then. present some evidence... Take it as a challenge. (Like i did with NoahJ's senator...)
well I'm not an expert on this, but our whole way of working with numbers I believe. Decimals, Roots, Algebra, Algoritm, differenet aspects of trigonometry...
These have very little, if anything, to do with Arabs. But you can thank the Jews who retranslated some mathematical concepts to Westerns.
quote
So the state of Israel has done important things for me? like what?
Think of Austria 500 years back. Islam is knocking?
quote
Your claims to the land are the ones that are highly suspect. Yet the arabs are willing to recognize Israel with the pre-67 borders. Why isn't that enough for you?
heheh ? Well, I?m willing to recognize you from the neck down. But you would still argue that you?re not brain dead.
quote
Like the land was empty you mean? Why don't you just show how it is all incorrect then. present some evidence... Take it as a challenge.
It was largely empty. But regardless, that doesn?t make our claim to it less legit. I would argue it makes our claim even more legit.
Comments
<strong>hmm ... it'll be interesting to know as to how they arrived at this figure...
mika.</strong><hr></blockquote>
However they came to this figure, the sad part is this is from one of Israel's "allies" that has signed a peace treaty with them...
<strong>
However they came to this figure, the sad part is this is from one of Israel's "allies" that has signed a peace treaty with them...</strong><hr></blockquote>
I wouldn?t call Egypt an ally of Israel?s. I wouldn?t even call her an ally of the U.S. But that?s not for me to decide. Most Israelis know the peace treaty is a sham. Egypt signed it to get American military and financial aid. In the hope to eventually match Israel in the battlefield with their American made armor ?
mika.
Usually I get angry when I hear about these suicide bombings, but this one just made me sad. Maybe Palestinians will see what they've become.
[quote]Ismail Abu Nada, 13, left a letter asking his parents for their forgiveness. Yossef Zaqot, 14, wanted his mother to pay the 30 cents he owed the corner grocer. And Anwar Hamdona, 14, requested that the three friends be buried together, as martyrs. He got his wish.
Islamic militant groups have denied they had sent the teenagers, and some have condemned the attacks and called on Palestinian children to "save their precious blood."
Hamas, which has sent scores of members on suicide missions against Israelis, described the actions of the schoolboys as a "national catastrophe," and said children should only contemplate such missions when they are older and have been trained.<hr></blockquote>
<strong>
I wouldn?t call Egypt an ally of Israel?s. I wouldn?t even call her an ally of the U.S. But that?s not for me to decide. Most Israelis know the peace treaty is a sham. Egypt signed it to get American military and financial aid. In the hope to eventually match Israel in the battlefield with their American made armor ?
mika.</strong><hr></blockquote>
That is quite true .. although I wouldn't go that far Egypt is still one of the more moderate states in the Mid-East and is an important part of US strategy in the region....the peace treaty with it has only done Israel good !
Re all the talk about US Aid to Israel , do you guys know that since Egypt signed the peace with Israel its been getting something like 2.5 Bn $ a year in Aid from the US ?
what is the US getting in return ?
.... very little ( apart from a degree of stability in the area ) Egypt won't even support US on key issues like the war in Afghanistan and Iraq..
Not to mention the US's 'greatest' ally in the region Saudi Arabia which didn't even allow the US to use its own (US) bases (which were setup to protect the Saudi kingdom with US's soldiers lives) on its soil to participate in the attacks against the Taliban and Al-Queda in Afghanistan.
I think the US is getting a slightly better return on its investments with Israel ...
The middle east is a rough neighbourhood ! which is another reason why Israel is so paranoid and weary of the Palestinians and its neighbours intentions.
<strong><a href="http://abcnews.go.com/sections/wnt/DailyNews/mideast020425_findlay.html"; target="_blank">Here's an article about some 13 and 14-year-old martyrs.</a>
Usually I get angry when I hear about these suicide bombings, but this one just made me sad. Maybe Palestinians will see what they've become.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
That's hardly surprising when you raise a whole generation of kids on the idea of Martyrdom and the Evil of Israel and when you have a leader like Arafat who constantly supports these actions in secret and who himself screams on world wide TV - ' I want to be a martyr a martyr a martyr !!!'
I really can't understand the Palestinians any more .. if they stop the violence and use non-violent tactics against the occupation they WILL get their state ! its so obvious, they are soo shooting themselves in the foot by their actions.
If the violence stops form the Palestinian side NO Israeli PM will be able to maintain the occupation .. the whole world ( and most Israelis ) would force him to settle in a land for peace deal. using something like the tactics that Gandhi used in India is far more effective in the current state of things....
Probably its Arafat and his henchmen's fault. they seem to rely on the hatred and fear the war creates in order to maintain their corrupt regime..... so so sad !
<a href="http://www.upi.com/view.cfm?StoryID=25042002-101151-5170r"; target="_blank">http://www.upi.com/view.cfm?StoryID=25042002-101151-5170r</a>;
And with your room we offer an upgraded rental car, flack jacket, bulletproof helmet, and a special on dinner tonight. Enjoy your stay, I will be on active duty if you need me. -The hotel manager.
What return would that be?
[quote]using something like the tactics that Gandhi used in India is far more effective in the current state of things. <hr></blockquote>
"Palestine belongs to the Arabs in the same sense that England belongs to the English or France to the French...What is going on in Palestine today cannot be justified by any moral code of conduct...If they [the Jews] must look to the Palestine of geography as their national home, it is wrong to enter it under the shadow of the British gun. A religious act cannot be performed with the aid of the bayonet or the bomb. They can settle in Palestine only by the goodwill of the Arabs... As it is, they are co-sharers with the British in despoiling a people who have done no wrong to them. I am not defending the Arab excesses. I wish they had chosen the way of non-violence in resisting what they rightly regard as an unacceptable encroachment upon their country. But according to the accepted canons of right and wrong, nothing can be said against the Arab resistance in the face of overwhelming odds." Mahatma Gandhi, quoted in "A Land of Two Peoples" ed. Mendes-Flohr.
Dr. Mubarak Awad, was expelled from East Jerusalem by Israel, because he advocated a non-violent civil revolt.Just because you don't here about non-violent protests, doesn't meen they don't exist. Non-violent tactics are used, but are failing to draw any of the attention. Mostly because powerful nations like the US have not reacted at all to repeatedly human rights abuse by the israelis.
What kind of non-violent protest by the palestinians do you think would be effective?
The israelis have pretty much gotten away with treating the palestinians like a paria. And like ANC did in the 60s, the palestinians have chosen to armed struggle.
When a palestinian teenager say he wants to be a martyr, it is under the sad realistation that his death is more than likely the best way to bring attention to the palestinian struggle, like this article shows. Very sad indeed...
[ 04-26-2002: Message edited by: New ]</p>
What return would that be?
?!?
\t
] <a href="http://www.washington-report.org/backissues/0695/9506081.htm"; target="_blank">http://www.washington-report.org/backissues/0695/9506081.htm</a>;
] <a href="http://www.jonathanpollard.org/1998/080698.htm"; target="_blank">http://www.jonathanpollard.org/1998/080698.htm</a>;
I suppose it would have been much better to ?engage? Saddam with his nuclear weapons ?
Disregarding non-military contributions, here are some small but interesting read(s) ... (type Israel)
] <a href="http://www.spacemart.com/cgi-bin/search/search.pl"; target="_blank">http://www.spacemart.com/cgi-bin/search/search.pl</a>;
] <a href="http://www.fas.org/search.html"; target="_blank">http://www.fas.org/search.html</a>;
mika.
btw. I have yet to see any scientific contribution in any scientific field come out from the Arab world?
[ 04-26-2002: Message edited by: PC^KILLA ]</p>
What return would that be?
<a href="http://www.washington-report.org/backissues/0695/9506081.htm"; target="_blank">http://www.washington-report.org/backissues/0695/9506081.htm</a>;
I suppose for you it would have been much better to ?engage? Saddam with his nuclear weapons ?<hr></blockquote>
So this was a return favor for US investments?
Wouldn't it have been cheaper for the US to do the bombing themselves. Or better yet, not have supported him in the first place...
[quote]btw. I have yet to see any scientific contribution in any scientific field come out from the Arab world? <hr></blockquote>
We owe modern mathemetics to the Arab world. Like the numeric system you use every day...
<a href="http://india.coolatlanta.com/GreatPages/sudheer/maths.html"; target="_blank">http://india.coolatlanta.com/GreatPages/sudheer/maths.html</a>;
Yes, and the indians owe it to the greeks, so what? You still wouldn't have algebra or the number zero if it wasn't for arabic mathematicians... the Arab world developed modern math, while europe was busy burning whatever greek texts they could find... They also made great agricultural, muscial, technical, naval/navigational and artistical advances that we base our modern knowledge societies on.
So this was a return favor for US investments?
Wouldn't it have been cheaper for the US to do the bombing themselves. Or better yet, not have supported him in the first place...
Boy, are you dense. (and ungrateful). America was diplomatically hamstrung, and was NOT prepared at that time to pay the price diplomatically. Israel was left to carry the diplomatic burden all on it?s own shoulders.
quote:
We owe modern mathemetics to the Arab world. Like the numeric system you use every day...
We?ve already addressed that fable earlier in this thread..
quote:
Ancient Islamic civilizations invented the ARABIC number system we use today?
I don?t mind you giving credit to Moslems or Arabs when that credit is due. But in this case, it is not. You might want to pick up the book by Charles Seife titled: "Zero: The Biography of a Dangerous Idea". It petty much answers that idiotic claim.
Here?s a link: <a href="http://www.users.cloud9.net/~cgseife/aboutzero.html"; target="_blank">http://www.users.cloud9.net/~cgseife/aboutzero.html</a>;
quote:
Palestine belongs to the Arabs in the same sense that England belongs to the English or France to the French?
We?ve addressed that too?
quote:
Israel belongs to the Arabs, just as much as North Africa, Spain, Serbia, Hungary, Austria, India, etc. belongs to the Arabs. You get my point? They?re a barbaric, empire building peoples who expanded their empire through the sword. To rationalize their claims to our land, without even addressing this issue, is highly suspect in my judgment.
mika.
Israel Radio defines Arabic Newspeak
By Ori Nir, Haaretz
Journalists in the Arabic language department of Israel Radio must not use the word "victim" when referring to Palestinian civilians killed in the intifada, according to guidelines distributed a week ago to editors and journalists at Reshet Daled, the Arabic station of Israel Radio. Instead of "victim" broadcasters should say "the dead"(katla).
The guidelines include other instructions on the use of certain expressions:
l "Quotations of Palestinians or Arabs should not be preceded by the word `akkada'" which means "underscored." This, says the guide, might "give the impression that you support or identify with the quote."
l The word "version" should not be used to describe statements by "official Israeli spokespersons" - like the Israeli Defense Forces - "because this gives the impression you are casting doubt on the statement." But it does add "there is no restriction on using the word when referring to the Palestinian side."
l When an official Israeli spokesman, such as the IDF spokesman, denies "lies and slander like the massacre in Jenin, it is not sufficient to use the expression `nafa' [denied] as has been done in some broadcasts." Instead, journalists must use verbs that make clear the allegations are a lie, and reiterate this by adding at the end: "The spokesman underscored that these slanderous allegations are entirely false and baseless."
l When a Knesset member contradicts or refutes statements by the prime minister "never use expressions such as `refuted' or `contradicted,' but say instead: `The Knesset member objected, or expressed his objections to, the prime minister's statement."
l The word "assassination" should not be used in referring to Israel's assassinations of Palestinian activists. Instead the word "killing" (katal in Arabic) should be used for those actions which the IDF itself calls "targeted assassinations."
Journalists in the Arabic news department say that since the intifada began in the territories a year and a half ago, there has been considerable management interference in broadcasting. Several employees argue that this harms the reputation for reliability and integrity which the station has among its Arab Israeli listeners and in the Arab world.
Edmond Skhayyek, the head of the department, said the guidelines have yet to be approved and he has not taken a position on the directives. He said they had not yet been distributed in the department, but employees denied this.
<strong>
Yes, and the indians owe it to the greeks, so what? You still wouldn't have algebra or the number zero if it wasn't for arabic mathematicians... </strong><hr></blockquote>
No they don't !
And you really gotta stop with that parroting of Arab myths and propaganda ?
[ 04-26-2002: Message edited by: PC^KILLA ]</p>
Israel Radio defines Arabic Newspeak
Finally !
It?s about time someome tried to address these home grown Arab propagandist. They still need to address the Hebrew and English language department, in both radio and TV !
But why not take a cue from the Arabs and tie them people to a car and drag them through the streets. Or maybe a public lynching will do better?
] <a href="http://www.guardian.co.uk/israel/Story/0,2763,677318,00.html"; target="_blank">http://www.guardian.co.uk/israel/Story/0,2763,677318,00.html</a>;
] <a href="http://www.guardian.co.uk/Archive/Article/0,4273,4385558,00.html"; target="_blank">http://www.guardian.co.uk/Archive/Article/0,4273,4385558,00.html</a>;
mika.
[ 04-26-2002: Message edited by: PC^KILLA ]</p>
The greeks in their turn owe it to the babylonians and ancient egypt... Why is this so hard for you?
You seem to have a heavy case of arab-phobia... Don't you have any positive things to say about islamic/arab culture at all?
[quote]Boy, are you dense. (and ungrateful). America was diplomatically hamstrung, and was NOT prepared at that time to pay the price diplomatically. Israel was left to carry the diplomatic burden all on it?s own shoulders.<hr></blockquote>
What do I have to be thankful about? The US founding Sadam in the firstplace? The israelis beeing the only nulear power in the region? Why are we even discussing this? It still doesn't justify any of the israeli behavior in the Occupied territories.
[quote]We owe modern mathemetics to the Arab world. Like the numeric system you use every day...
We?ve already addressed that fable earlier in this thread..
quote:
Ancient Islamic civilizations invented the ARABIC number system we use today?
I don?t mind you giving credit to Moslems or Arabs when that credit is due. But in this case, it is not. You might want to pick up the book by Charles Seife titled: "Zero: The Biography of a Dangerous Idea". It petty much answers that idiotic claim.
Here?s a link: <a href="http://www.users.cloud9.net/~cgseife/aboutzero.html[/QUOTE"; target="_blank">]http://www.users.cloud9.net/~cgseife/aboutzero.html</a><hr></blockquote>;
I never said they invented anything by themselves. They developed modern mathematics. And not even you, Irving, can deny this.
[quote]
Palestine belongs to the Arabs in the same sense that England belongs to the English or France to the French?
We?ve addressed that too?
<hr></blockquote>
Why don't we adress it again, since you never adressed any of my historic references?
[quote]They?re a barbaric, empire building peoples who expanded their empire through the sword. To rationalize their claims to our land, without even addressing this issue, is highly suspect in my judgment. <hr></blockquote>
well, to be honest your judgement doesn't score very high with me. Did you know that Islam has been spread with merchants and trade just as much (if not more), than with force? Chrisitianity has a much darker history on this point...
[ 04-26-2002: Message edited by: New ]</p>
They don't what?
Seems like you answered that already. (Sans Egypt).
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I never said they invented anything by themselves.
heheh ? I agree.
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They developed modern mathematics?
Hmm ? Just out of curiosity, what else do you consider is ?modern? mathematics?
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Why don't we adress it again, since you never adressed any of my historic references?
Maybe it?s because your ?historic references?, Irving, are not historic? You can copy and paste all the Second hand Arab propaganda you like, it doesn?t make it any more truthful. Although, that?s a very common method that propagandist use. Repeat a lie often enough, and it becomes the truth.
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What do I have to be thankful about?
Like I said ? ungrateful!\t
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Did you know that Islam has been spread with merchants and trade just as much (if not more), than with force? Chrisitianity has a much darker history on this point...
And your point is?
They?re a barbaric, empire building peoples who expanded their empire through the sword. To rationalize their claims to our land, without even addressing this issue, is highly suspect in my judgment.
mika.
So who built the pyramids? ze martians?
[quote] I never said they invented anything by themselves.
heheh ? I agree. <hr></blockquote>
You are twisting my statement. They invented Algebra for instance.
[quote] Just out of curiosity, what else do you consider is ?modern? mathematics? <hr></blockquote>
well I'm not an expert on this, but our whole way of working with numbers I believe.
Decimals, Roots, Algebra, Algoritm, differenet aspects of trigonometry...
What I find more interesting is You having such a hard time with this.
[quote] Like I said ? ungrateful! <hr></blockquote>
So the state of Israel has done important things for me? like what?
[quote] To rationalize their claims to our land, without even addressing this issue, is highly suspect in my judgment. <hr></blockquote>
Your claims to the land are the ones that are highly suspect. Yet the arabs are willing to recognize Israel with the pre-67 borders. Why isn't that enough for you?
[quote] You can copy and paste all the Second hand Arab propaganda you like, it doesn?t make it any more truthful. Although, that?s a very common method that propagandist use. Repeat a lie often enough, and it becomes the truth. <hr></blockquote>
Like the land was empty you mean? Why don't you just show how it is all incorrect then. present some evidence... Take it as a challenge. (Like i did with NoahJ's senator...)
So who built the pyramids? ze martians?
No. ze Hebrews.
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They invented Algebra for instance
No. They invented the word Algebra.
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well I'm not an expert on this, but our whole way of working with numbers I believe. Decimals, Roots, Algebra, Algoritm, differenet aspects of trigonometry...
These have very little, if anything, to do with Arabs. But you can thank the Jews who retranslated some mathematical concepts to Westerns.
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So the state of Israel has done important things for me? like what?
Think of Austria 500 years back. Islam is knocking?
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Your claims to the land are the ones that are highly suspect. Yet the arabs are willing to recognize Israel with the pre-67 borders. Why isn't that enough for you?
heheh ? Well, I?m willing to recognize you from the neck down. But you would still argue that you?re not brain dead.
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Like the land was empty you mean? Why don't you just show how it is all incorrect then. present some evidence... Take it as a challenge.
It was largely empty. But regardless, that doesn?t make our claim to it less legit. I would argue it makes our claim even more legit.
mika.
[ 04-26-2002: Message edited by: PC^KILLA ]</p>