That is one courageous claim. Pretty easy when being 10000 miles away. Have you ever been to the occupied territories?
[ 03-12-2002: Message edited by: Anders ]</strong><hr></blockquote>
I haven't been to any of the territories, but I have been to Israel (last year). The group I went with went through some of these towns they are demolising. The houses were, at that point, empty and falling apart. A cardboard box would probably be a better home. In addition to that, I read numerous websites and subscribe to 5 Israel newsgroups.
I believe the Israelis. I'll admit that the ambulance could've just had wounded people, but considering their past record, I believe them. They intercepted a boat full of ammo on the way to Arafat. They have found bomb shelters and missiles and other weapons. They have showed proof for all the other things, so It doesn't much bother me that they don't have proof for one. I'm sure the U.S. has imprisoned many Muslims here that have no ties to terrorists.
<strong>Look. We can't allow terrorism to rule the day. We can't allow this to become a method to gain one's objetive.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I agree. Only one thing is equal to terrorism and thats state terrorism. When states target random individuals in an attempt to get what you want you are no better than those "civilians" who do the same.
Demolishing houses because they are in villages where terror attacks into Israel were planned is state terrorism. Demolishing houses for the sole reason that those who live inside them are in family with (dead suicide-)terrorists is state terrorism.
Look here. I may sound like I am anti-Israel in this discussion. I am not. When I discuss thing like this with my friends I am told that I am pro-Israel because I defend Israels right to target the terrorists my friends see as freedom fighters, defend the pre-67 boarders aso. I dislike terrorism from the palestinian side just like I dislike it from Israel. But the attitude here is so pro-Israel here and I read outrageous claims that I have to take the osition I am.
I haven't been to any of the territories, but I have been to Israel (last year). The group I went with went through some of these towns they are demolising. The houses were, at that point, empty and falling apart. A cardboard box would probably be a better home. In addition to that, I read numerous websites and subscribe to 5 Israel newsgroups.</strong><hr></blockquote>
It must have been different houses. The houses Israel demolished were not falling apart. They were visible inhabited.
[quote]<strong>I believe the Israelis. I'll admit that the ambulance could've just had wounded people, but considering their past record, I believe them. </strong><hr></blockquote>
By them I assume (or rather hope) you mean Red Crescent (I falsely called them "red half moon" before). I have NEVER heard of any incident where they have used their status for anything like what Israel is claiming. They are as clean as the Red Cross.
[quote]<strong>They intercepted a boat full of ammo on the way to Arafat. They have found bomb shelters and missiles and other weapons. They have showed proof for all the other things, so It doesn't much bother me that they don't have proof for one. </strong><hr></blockquote>
Did Red Crescent smuggle the weapons? I have never heard of this. You do not differentiate between the two in your post. Do you really believe that all palestinians are the same, terrorists and weapon smugglers?
[quote]<strong>I'm sure the U.S. has imprisoned many Muslims here that have no ties to terrorists.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Did US throw a couple of hand grenades into the prison where they kept those unconvicted people?
[quote] I haven't been to any of the territories, but I have been to Israel (last year). The group I went with went through some of these towns they are demolishing. The houses were, at that point, empty and falling apart. A cardboard box would probably be a better home. In addition to that, I read numerous websites and subscribe to 5 Israel newsgroups.
<hr></blockquote>
Yea after they had been shelled, shot, and burned <img src="graemlins/oyvey.gif" border="0" alt="[No]" />
Even on American news they show perfectly good lived in houses being smashed by dozers.
I also read Israel's news papers AND palestinian papers (3 and 3) plus American and European media. Getting you info from the press in Israel is so one sided I could not believe it. No mention of the palestinian kids or ambulances or int. national press or hospitals getting shot at. Just "32 Palestinians dead"
I'm sure they are different houses. They obviously weren't going to take us into the really bad areas. It wouldn't be safe. I agree that the red cresent is PROBABLY pretty clean. The thing that bugs me though is the 70 or so Magen David Adom (Israeli "red cross") ambulances that have been destroyed. I wouldn't be suprised if they were smugling in weapons. Of course killing people is worse than imprisoning them, but the same fact remains true that they have no conclusive evidence but it was just precautionary.
Here are a couple of links for those who care to become better informed as to what really is presented to them in the "news" and what is not. I hope you gain better perspective and stop parroting the same old lines the puppet masters feed you.
Anyway, I?m sure there are plenty of others. The question is why is it that they play down or don?t report completely on facts relevant to the issues, and that reflect favorably on Israel. Is it for cheap ratings? Is it that they already decided whom the ?good? and ?bad? guys are, and facts that don?t fit the profile get left out. Maybe. But I think it?s more subtle than that. I think the real underlying answer can be found in the history books. It?s a case of basic predatory instincts. And the only way to put an end to it, is to stop being the prey and start becoming the predator.
<strong>Wafa Idris was Red Crescent.</strong><hr></blockquote>
She was? Interesting. I always thought Red Crescent was a organization and not a person
[quote]<strong>You managed to "clean" her up fairly quicky didn't you Anders. Only took you a couple of weeks. </strong><hr></blockquote>
I have no intention on defending terrorists. But she wasn´t acting as a Red Crescent worker when she blew herself up. She didn´t use her status or used Red Crescent ambulances to help her do her act. There is no connection between her and Red Crescent when she did what she did.
Did you know that more than one Red Cross worker has later been convicted as murderers? Does that mean its okay to shoot at Red Cross workers when doing their job of helping wounded in wars?
Just curious? when exactly did our land become theirs? What?s the history of their claim to our lands? How did these Arabs acquire these lands? That is, how exactly did it come to their possession? And when? I?d really like to know your take on this.
Also, you say you have been there Anders, and seen their settlements with your own eyes. How old did most of their homes look to you? From what I?ve seen, the vast majority of the buildings there are not older than 50 years.
[quote] Just curious? when exactly did our land become theirs? What?s the history of their claim to our lands? How did these Arabs acquire these lands? That is, how exactly did it come to their possession? And when? I?d really like to know your take on this. <hr></blockquote>
Are you serious? the arabs are the decendents of Abraham, just like the jews. There where several tribes you know... Their history in the middle-east goes as far back as the jewish... The real difference is that they have been there since then, while most isrealis (not all!) have a fairly recent arrival in Israel... (last 50 years),,,
[quote]I'm not inventing history. The Arabs repeatedly declared war and Israel won every time. Over those wars, Israel won all the land given to "Palestine." You're right that technically it hasn't all been Israel since 1948, but as of TODAY, it is Israel, not Palestine. <hr></blockquote>
You are inventing History... Isreal started both the six day war (1967), and invaded lebanon in 1982... what about golan? now a part of Isreal?
When a site has to call itself "honestreporting" it speaks for itself...
[quote] If you read my post, you'd see that I did say that there have been significant innocent deaths. They are all accidents though. <hr></blockquote>
With Israel hating media like the NYT against it how does Israel stand a chance to get fair shake in any of the liberal bias newspapers in the US or Europe?
Regarding your picture on page A5 of the Israeli soldier and the Palestinian on the Temple Mount -- that Palestinian is actually my son, Tuvia Grossman, a Jewish student from Chicago. He, and two of his friends, were pulled from their taxicab while traveling in Jerusalem, by a mob of Palestinian Arabs, and were severely beaten and stabbed.
That picture could not have been taken on the Temple Mount because there are no gas stations on the Temple Mount and certainly none with Hebrew lettering, like the one clearly seen behind the Israeli soldier attempting to protect my son from the mob.
Here's what Israel is up against. Someone tell me again how this is about land/"occupation" not anti-semitic hatred rampant throughout the backwards and corrupt muslim/arab world?
Special Dispatch No. 354: Saudi Government Daily: Jews Use Teenagers' Blood for 'Purim' Pastries</a>
[quote]In an article published by the Saudi government daily Al-Riyadh, columnist Dr. Umayma Ahmad Al-Jalahma of King Faysal University in Al-Dammam, wrote on "The Jewish Holiday of Purim." Following are excerpts of the article:
Special Ingredient For Jewish Holidays is Human Blood From Non-Jewish Youth
"I chose to [speak] about the Jewish holiday of Purim, because it is connected to the month of March. This holiday has some dangerous customs that will, no doubt, horrify you, and I apologize if any reader is harmed because of this."
"During this holiday, the Jew must prepare very special pastries, the filling of which is not only costly and rare - it cannot be found at all on the local and international markets."
"Unfortunately, this filling cannot be left out, or substituted with any alternative serving the same purpose. For this holiday, the Jewish people must obtain human blood so that their clerics can prepare the holiday pastries. In other words, the practice cannot be carried out as required if human blood is not spilled!!"<hr></blockquote>
yes thats crazy but so are the papers from Israel. Some of the editorials are as insane as ARAB^KILLA over here. In a war, both sides info becomes distorted and one sided.
<strong>yes thats crazy but so are the papers from Israel. Some of the editorials are as insane as ARAB^KILLA over here. In a war, both sides info becomes distorted and one sided.
More of the "both sides do it" crap. Are government run papers doing it? Isn't there also this thing called "freedom of the press" there to counter that whack jobs. Like we have here in the US.
>You are inventing History... Isreal started both the six day war (1967), and invaded lebanon in 1982... what about golan? now a part of Isreal?<
Now YOU are inventing history. Israel struck a preemptive attack because the Arabs were planning an invasion. Its called being intelligent and protecting your country. Open your eyes..................
[quote]In 1988, a left-wing Israeli historian and journalist named Benny Morris published "The Birth of the Palestinian Refugee Problem, 1947-1949," which challenged the traditional Zionist view that the problems of the Palestinian Arabs were entirely of their own making. The book demonstrated that the Palestinians had neither ordered themselves off their land wholesale nor abandoned it voluntarily in hopes of a triumphant and bloody return; on the contrary, they had left their homes in Jaffa and Tiberias, West Jerusalem and Haifa in the hundreds of thousands mostly because they were driven out of them in wartime. The founding of Israel, like that of the United States, was a historical victory but it had not been without its original sin.
Morris does not deny that the Palestinians, first in 1937 and again in 1947, adamantly and foolishly rejected internationally sponsored partition plans and then went to war against the Israelis. But his scholarly deconstruction of a founding myth of the state - a myth enshrined in popular history, high-school textbooks, and standard patriotic rhetoric - met with tremendous resistance. After his book appeared, Morris was eventually fired from his job at the Jerusalem Post. He had trouble getting work in the academy. And yet, with time, the "new historiography" that he helped to cultivate was one of many currents, political and moral, as well as intellectual, that led an increasing number of Israelis to question not the Zionist idea of a Jewish homeland but the blinkered, orthodox version of Zionist history. The French philosopher and historian Ernest Renan once wrote that a nation "is a group of people united by a mistaken view about the past and a hatred of its neighbors." Perhaps, but such unity is not immutable. Most Israelis, weary of the onus of occupation, proved ready to rethink the past and live with, if not adore, the Palestinians. Part of what masked the practical perils of the Oslo Accords of 1993 was the seductive notion that for the first time both sides were prepared to recognize each other and live peacefully as neighbors.
As it turned out, while even most conservative Israelis (including Ariel Sharon) conceded that there would, in the end, be a Palestinian state, the Palestinians had not necessarily altered their own founding myths and intentions. Forget Hamas and Islamic Jihad and their culture of martyrdom and absolute victory. Last year, Faisal Husseini, a decided moderate among Yasir Arafat's leadership ranks, gave an interview not long before he died in which he compared Oslo to a Trojan horse, an intermediate, tactical step leading to the elimination of Israel. He said, "If you are asking me as a Pan-Arab nationalist what are the Palestinian borders according to the higher strategy, I will immediately reply: 'From the river to the sea' " - that is, from the Jordan to the Mediterranean.
Right-wingers in Israel have long argued that such remarks reflect the true faith of the Palestinian mainstream. Hope was the reserve of the left. Now, it seems, there is not much hope left, and not much of a left, either - not in the short term, anyway. What is the evidence? A fairly indicative event was the publication in the London Guardian, a few weeks ago, of "Peace? No Chance," an essay by the same Benny Morris, in which he sheepishly concedes that Arafat's rejection of the Israeli and American peace plans in 2000 and the intifada that has raged for a year and a half have left him feeling "a bit like one of those western fellow travelers rudely awakened by the trundle of Russian tanks crashing through Budapest in 1956." ...<hr></blockquote>
<strong>>You are inventing History... Isreal started both the six day war (1967), and invaded lebanon in 1982... what about golan? now a part of Isreal?<
Now YOU are inventing history. Israel struck a preemptive attack because the Arabs were planning an invasion. Its called being intelligent and protecting your country. Open your eyes..................</strong><hr></blockquote>
That's correct. I was also noting the Yom Kippur war. There, Egypt invaded Israel. Israel fought back. They gained tons of land and got pretty far into Egypt. The the UN came in and made the Israelis give back the land they had won. That was extremely unfair. They won the land fair and square. They didn't start the war. It would be like the US having to give up the land we won when fighting for Texas.
Thank you Scott H. That article about Purim is the most despicable thing I have ever read. I'm Jewish. The pastries are called Hamentashen. They are in the shape of what supposedly was Haman's hat. They do have a filling, but unless the fruit filling they sell in the stores (like Solo) contains blood, we are clean. The problem is that people are going to believe things like that and the picture in the NY Times. A respectable newspaper like that should know better than to publish something like that. Anyone that says the media in the US is pro Israel is out of their minds.
Comments
<strong>
That is one courageous claim. Pretty easy when being 10000 miles away. Have you ever been to the occupied territories?
[ 03-12-2002: Message edited by: Anders ]</strong><hr></blockquote>
I haven't been to any of the territories, but I have been to Israel (last year). The group I went with went through some of these towns they are demolising. The houses were, at that point, empty and falling apart. A cardboard box would probably be a better home. In addition to that, I read numerous websites and subscribe to 5 Israel newsgroups.
I believe the Israelis. I'll admit that the ambulance could've just had wounded people, but considering their past record, I believe them. They intercepted a boat full of ammo on the way to Arafat. They have found bomb shelters and missiles and other weapons. They have showed proof for all the other things, so It doesn't much bother me that they don't have proof for one. I'm sure the U.S. has imprisoned many Muslims here that have no ties to terrorists.
<strong>Look. We can't allow terrorism to rule the day. We can't allow this to become a method to gain one's objetive.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I agree. Only one thing is equal to terrorism and thats state terrorism. When states target random individuals in an attempt to get what you want you are no better than those "civilians" who do the same.
Demolishing houses because they are in villages where terror attacks into Israel were planned is state terrorism. Demolishing houses for the sole reason that those who live inside them are in family with (dead suicide-)terrorists is state terrorism.
Look here. I may sound like I am anti-Israel in this discussion. I am not. When I discuss thing like this with my friends I am told that I am pro-Israel because I defend Israels right to target the terrorists my friends see as freedom fighters, defend the pre-67 boarders aso. I dislike terrorism from the palestinian side just like I dislike it from Israel. But the attitude here is so pro-Israel here and I read outrageous claims that I have to take the osition I am.
<strong>
I haven't been to any of the territories, but I have been to Israel (last year). The group I went with went through some of these towns they are demolising. The houses were, at that point, empty and falling apart. A cardboard box would probably be a better home. In addition to that, I read numerous websites and subscribe to 5 Israel newsgroups.</strong><hr></blockquote>
It must have been different houses. The houses Israel demolished were not falling apart. They were visible inhabited.
[quote]<strong>I believe the Israelis. I'll admit that the ambulance could've just had wounded people, but considering their past record, I believe them. </strong><hr></blockquote>
By them I assume (or rather hope) you mean Red Crescent (I falsely called them "red half moon" before). I have NEVER heard of any incident where they have used their status for anything like what Israel is claiming. They are as clean as the Red Cross.
[quote]<strong>They intercepted a boat full of ammo on the way to Arafat. They have found bomb shelters and missiles and other weapons. They have showed proof for all the other things, so It doesn't much bother me that they don't have proof for one. </strong><hr></blockquote>
Did Red Crescent smuggle the weapons? I have never heard of this. You do not differentiate between the two in your post. Do you really believe that all palestinians are the same, terrorists and weapon smugglers?
[quote]<strong>I'm sure the U.S. has imprisoned many Muslims here that have no ties to terrorists.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Did US throw a couple of hand grenades into the prison where they kept those unconvicted people?
mika.
<hr></blockquote>
Yea after they had been shelled, shot, and burned <img src="graemlins/oyvey.gif" border="0" alt="[No]" />
Even on American news they show perfectly good lived in houses being smashed by dozers.
I also read Israel's news papers AND palestinian papers (3 and 3) plus American and European media. Getting you info from the press in Israel is so one sided I could not believe it. No mention of the palestinian kids or ambulances or int. national press or hospitals getting shot at. Just "32 Palestinians dead"
1] <a href="http://world.std.com/~camera/"; target="_blank">http://world.std.com/~camera/</a>;
2] <a href="http://www.debka.com/"; target="_blank">http://www.debka.com/</a>;
mika.
] <a href="http://honestreporting.com"; target="_blank">http://honestreporting.com</a>;
Anyway, I?m sure there are plenty of others. The question is why is it that they play down or don?t report completely on facts relevant to the issues, and that reflect favorably on Israel. Is it for cheap ratings? Is it that they already decided whom the ?good? and ?bad? guys are, and facts that don?t fit the profile get left out. Maybe. But I think it?s more subtle than that. I think the real underlying answer can be found in the history books. It?s a case of basic predatory instincts. And the only way to put an end to it, is to stop being the prey and start becoming the predator.
mika.
[ 03-13-2002: Message edited by: PC^KILLA ]</p>
<strong>Wafa Idris was Red Crescent.</strong><hr></blockquote>
She was? Interesting. I always thought Red Crescent was a organization and not a person
[quote]<strong>You managed to "clean" her up fairly quicky didn't you Anders. Only took you a couple of weeks. </strong><hr></blockquote>
I have no intention on defending terrorists. But she wasn´t acting as a Red Crescent worker when she blew herself up. She didn´t use her status or used Red Crescent ambulances to help her do her act. There is no connection between her and Red Crescent when she did what she did.
Did you know that more than one Red Cross worker has later been convicted as murderers? Does that mean its okay to shoot at Red Cross workers when doing their job of helping wounded in wars?
Also, you say you have been there Anders, and seen their settlements with your own eyes. How old did most of their homes look to you? From what I?ve seen, the vast majority of the buildings there are not older than 50 years.
mika.
Are you serious? the arabs are the decendents of Abraham, just like the jews. There where several tribes you know... Their history in the middle-east goes as far back as the jewish... The real difference is that they have been there since then, while most isrealis (not all!) have a fairly recent arrival in Israel... (last 50 years),,,
[quote]I'm not inventing history. The Arabs repeatedly declared war and Israel won every time. Over those wars, Israel won all the land given to "Palestine." You're right that technically it hasn't all been Israel since 1948, but as of TODAY, it is Israel, not Palestine. <hr></blockquote>
You are inventing History... Isreal started both the six day war (1967), and invaded lebanon in 1982... what about golan? now a part of Isreal?
When a site has to call itself "honestreporting" it speaks for itself...
[quote] If you read my post, you'd see that I did say that there have been significant innocent deaths. They are all accidents though. <hr></blockquote>
Here's an accident for you:
Sorry...
[ 03-13-2002: Message edited by: New ]</p>
Regarding your picture on page A5 of the Israeli soldier and the Palestinian on the Temple Mount -- that Palestinian is actually my son, Tuvia Grossman, a Jewish student from Chicago. He, and two of his friends, were pulled from their taxicab while traveling in Jerusalem, by a mob of Palestinian Arabs, and were severely beaten and stabbed.
That picture could not have been taken on the Temple Mount because there are no gas stations on the Temple Mount and certainly none with Hebrew lettering, like the one clearly seen behind the Israeli soldier attempting to protect my son from the mob.
<a href="http://www.HonestReporting.com/followup/01_tuvia.asp"; target="_blank">http://www.HonestReporting.com/followup/01_tuvia.asp</a>;
[ 03-13-2002: Message edited by: Scott H. ]</p>
<a href="http://memri.org/news.html#1016041265"; target="_blank">Posted: Wednesday, March 13, 2002
Special Dispatch No. 354: Saudi Government Daily: Jews Use Teenagers' Blood for 'Purim' Pastries</a>
[quote]In an article published by the Saudi government daily Al-Riyadh, columnist Dr. Umayma Ahmad Al-Jalahma of King Faysal University in Al-Dammam, wrote on "The Jewish Holiday of Purim." Following are excerpts of the article:
Special Ingredient For Jewish Holidays is Human Blood From Non-Jewish Youth
"I chose to [speak] about the Jewish holiday of Purim, because it is connected to the month of March. This holiday has some dangerous customs that will, no doubt, horrify you, and I apologize if any reader is harmed because of this."
"During this holiday, the Jew must prepare very special pastries, the filling of which is not only costly and rare - it cannot be found at all on the local and international markets."
"Unfortunately, this filling cannot be left out, or substituted with any alternative serving the same purpose. For this holiday, the Jewish people must obtain human blood so that their clerics can prepare the holiday pastries. In other words, the practice cannot be carried out as required if human blood is not spilled!!"<hr></blockquote>
[ 03-13-2002: Message edited by: Scott H. ]</p>
[ 03-13-2002: Message edited by: thentro ]</p>
<strong>yes thats crazy but so are the papers from Israel. Some of the editorials are as insane as ARAB^KILLA over here. In a war, both sides info becomes distorted and one sided.
[ 03-13-2002: Message edited by: thentro ]</strong><hr></blockquote>
More of the "both sides do it" crap.
Now YOU are inventing history. Israel struck a preemptive attack because the Arabs were planning an invasion. Its called being intelligent and protecting your country. Open your eyes..................
<strong>Hey, the Saudi government is US ally, right?
COMMENT
<a href="http://www.newyorker.com/talk/content/?020318ta_talk_remnick"; target="_blank">IN A DARK TIME</a>
Issue of 2002-03-18
Posted 2002-03-11
[quote]In 1988, a left-wing Israeli historian and journalist named Benny Morris published "The Birth of the Palestinian Refugee Problem, 1947-1949," which challenged the traditional Zionist view that the problems of the Palestinian Arabs were entirely of their own making. The book demonstrated that the Palestinians had neither ordered themselves off their land wholesale nor abandoned it voluntarily in hopes of a triumphant and bloody return; on the contrary, they had left their homes in Jaffa and Tiberias, West Jerusalem and Haifa in the hundreds of thousands mostly because they were driven out of them in wartime. The founding of Israel, like that of the United States, was a historical victory but it had not been without its original sin.
Morris does not deny that the Palestinians, first in 1937 and again in 1947, adamantly and foolishly rejected internationally sponsored partition plans and then went to war against the Israelis. But his scholarly deconstruction of a founding myth of the state - a myth enshrined in popular history, high-school textbooks, and standard patriotic rhetoric - met with tremendous resistance. After his book appeared, Morris was eventually fired from his job at the Jerusalem Post. He had trouble getting work in the academy. And yet, with time, the "new historiography" that he helped to cultivate was one of many currents, political and moral, as well as intellectual, that led an increasing number of Israelis to question not the Zionist idea of a Jewish homeland but the blinkered, orthodox version of Zionist history. The French philosopher and historian Ernest Renan once wrote that a nation "is a group of people united by a mistaken view about the past and a hatred of its neighbors." Perhaps, but such unity is not immutable. Most Israelis, weary of the onus of occupation, proved ready to rethink the past and live with, if not adore, the Palestinians. Part of what masked the practical perils of the Oslo Accords of 1993 was the seductive notion that for the first time both sides were prepared to recognize each other and live peacefully as neighbors.
As it turned out, while even most conservative Israelis (including Ariel Sharon) conceded that there would, in the end, be a Palestinian state, the Palestinians had not necessarily altered their own founding myths and intentions. Forget Hamas and Islamic Jihad and their culture of martyrdom and absolute victory. Last year, Faisal Husseini, a decided moderate among Yasir Arafat's leadership ranks, gave an interview not long before he died in which he compared Oslo to a Trojan horse, an intermediate, tactical step leading to the elimination of Israel. He said, "If you are asking me as a Pan-Arab nationalist what are the Palestinian borders according to the higher strategy, I will immediately reply: 'From the river to the sea' " - that is, from the Jordan to the Mediterranean.
Right-wingers in Israel have long argued that such remarks reflect the true faith of the Palestinian mainstream. Hope was the reserve of the left. Now, it seems, there is not much hope left, and not much of a left, either - not in the short term, anyway. What is the evidence? A fairly indicative event was the publication in the London Guardian, a few weeks ago, of "Peace? No Chance," an essay by the same Benny Morris, in which he sheepishly concedes that Arafat's rejection of the Israeli and American peace plans in 2000 and the intifada that has raged for a year and a half have left him feeling "a bit like one of those western fellow travelers rudely awakened by the trundle of Russian tanks crashing through Budapest in 1956." ...<hr></blockquote>
[ 03-13-2002: Message edited by: roger_ramjet ]</p>
<strong>>You are inventing History... Isreal started both the six day war (1967), and invaded lebanon in 1982... what about golan? now a part of Isreal?<
Now YOU are inventing history. Israel struck a preemptive attack because the Arabs were planning an invasion. Its called being intelligent and protecting your country. Open your eyes..................</strong><hr></blockquote>
That's correct. I was also noting the Yom Kippur war. There, Egypt invaded Israel. Israel fought back. They gained tons of land and got pretty far into Egypt. The the UN came in and made the Israelis give back the land they had won. That was extremely unfair. They won the land fair and square. They didn't start the war. It would be like the US having to give up the land we won when fighting for Texas.
Thank you Scott H. That article about Purim is the most despicable thing I have ever read. I'm Jewish. The pastries are called Hamentashen. They are in the shape of what supposedly was Haman's hat. They do have a filling, but unless the fruit filling they sell in the stores (like Solo) contains blood, we are clean. The problem is that people are going to believe things like that and the picture in the NY Times. A respectable newspaper like that should know better than to publish something like that. Anyone that says the media in the US is pro Israel is out of their minds.