[quote]And I would suspend our membership in the U.N. until this Orwellian institution reforms itself.<hr></blockquote>
You know of course that you have the UN to thank for the creation of the state of Israel?
[quote]However, looking at history books, and seeing how most if not all nations acquired their lands, I do think Israel should take a lesson from these countries, and follow their example. I can assure you they?ll have plenty of people willing to help in this endeavor, me included.<hr></blockquote>
again... these are not the middle ages. There wouldn't have been any Isreali state at all if your logic was put to work.
[quote] From a military standpoint, I would simply declare war. I would try to avoid using ground troops in Judea Samaria and Gaza. This is a densely populated urban area and more suited to siege tactics than anything else. So here I would use the Air Force. I would use the Air Force to disable the electric grid in the area. I would use the Air Force to disable the telephone grid. I would disable the gas and petrol delivery systems. I would target their banking facilities. All this shouldn?t take more than a day to accomplish. Furthermore, I would flood their economy with counterfeit currency to completely destabilize their economy. I would create barriers to all goods and people trying to reach the area and make it clear to any Israeli employers that should they get caught with illegal Arab labour, the consequences will be dramatic.
In the event the U.S tries to block the above siege actions diplomatically I would encourage the creation of independent militias. These will operate regardless of the political climate and will take over in the event the regular army can?t be used to maintain the siege due to diplomatic pressures. <hr></blockquote>
you, my friend, are indeed advocating totaltarian means that can hardly be described as anything but facism... :eek:
you, my friend, are indeed advocating totaltarian means that can hardly be described as anything but facism... :eek: </strong><hr></blockquote>
Actually it's not "totaltarian" and not "facism". Those are descriptions of governments. What's described above is a war tactic. A democracy could use siege tactic against a enemy. It may seem like I'm picking nits but I think the misuse of words is a big problem today. In an effort ti "win" an argument people will toss in "nazi" "fascist" or whatever without using the work correctly.
So, you occupy a cerain area for 35 years, you don't give the people who live there their basic human rights, and when they start to "misbehave" you destroy their infrastructure, ability to make a living, economy, social system...
THEN to be able to DISREGARD the world opinion and diplomatic pressure you creat "secret little armies"/ aka paramillitary units to fight you "war" (if this isn't just as terrorist as the HAMAS, then I don't know)...
Which part of this can actually be called a "war" fought by a "democratic" nation?
I didn't call him a nazi. I read the political, the diplomatic, and then more cloesly the millitary standpoint of "KILLA" and simply stated that I considered these views VERY close to facism... If the US had employd similar tactics in Afganistan, there is no telling how many more civilian lives would have been lost...
These are exactly the same tactics used by the nazi occupation force in Europe, Soviet in East-Europe, China in Tibet and Indonesia on East-Timor...
Nice choice of words. This is the Viking in you talking now?
quote:
"you destroy their infrastructure"
Everything there in terms of infrastructure was build by Israel. And I did say disable did I not?
quote:
?THEN to be able to DISREGARD the world opinion?
You really have an inflated ego don't you?
quote:
?you creat "secret little armies"/ aka paramillitary units to fight you "war" ??
Nothing secret. Just independent.
quote:
?(if this isn't just as terrorist as the HAMAS, then I don't know)?
If disabling the electric/telephone grid in the area compares to sending people on mass murder rampages, well, all I can say is that you need help.
quote:
?Which part of this can actually be called a "war" fought by a "democratic" nation??
You really need help.
quote:
?I didn't call him a nazi. ... These are exactly the same tactics used by the nazi occupation force in Europe, Soviet in East-Europe, China in Tibet and Indonesia on East-Timor?
Really? What tactics exactly?
P.S. The seige tactics I outlined earlier are exactly the same as those just recently used by NATO to defeat Yugoslavia in Kosovo. Were you protesting those "nazi" tactics when they were used then New?
PC KILLA kicked your ass in this debate, NEW. You should get more accurate info and more educated opinions NEW before you make yourself look sillier than you do now.......................................
I admit that I haven't followed the whole thread but the Jews are no better then the Palestinines.. Each side is blowing away each other.. My opinion is screw them... It's really apparent that both sides don't want peace.. Drop the f'ing bomb on both of them and get it over with.... Christ, how long have they been fighting....
Hmm? I feel for ya. But I think that?s exactly the kind of response the Arabs propaganda is geared for. I myself am so bored hearing about this day after day, week after week, year after year, you just can?t imagine. In fact, although I was a ?news junky? before, I now mostly turn the channel off whenever I hear anything relating to this issue. And I have an obvious reason to stay informed. I can just image what someone who has no connection to this issue must feel... it?s got to get on your nerves, being bombarded with this stuff day after day after day for so long. But this is what the Arabs want. They want people to be so sick of this that they?ll agree to anything that will bring some quiet to that part of the world. No matter how stupid it might be.
But don?t worry. This conflict is small potato?s? on the European scale. Only about a hundred years old. How long have the Europeans been going at each other?s throat now? a couple of millennia?
Actually it?s closer to 3500 years. <hr></blockquote>
So the arabs have occupied Gaza and the West Bank for 3500 years?
what about the romans, crusaders, turks and english etc...?
[quote] quote:
?when they start to "misbehave"?
Nice choice of words. This is the Viking in you talking now? <hr></blockquote>
You know the Vikings discovered America first, so if we can just find a good enough "religious" explanation the whole of the US should be Islandic right now???
[quote] quote:
"you destroy their infrastructure"
Everything there in terms of infrastructure was build by Israel. And I did say disable did I not? <hr></blockquote>
The EU has documented Israeli destruction of EU-development projects in the territories costing over hundred of millions of dollars...
[quote] quote:
?THEN to be able to DISREGARD the world opinion?
You really have an inflated ego don't you? <hr></blockquote>
maybe? I thought we where gonna stop the personal attacks?
[quote] ?you creat "secret little armies"/ aka paramillitary units to fight you "war" ??
Nothing secret. Just independent. <hr></blockquote>
Like the Contras?
[quote] ?(if this isn't just as terrorist as the HAMAS, then I don't know)?
If disabling the electric/telephone grid in the area compares to sending people on mass murder rampages, well, all I can say is that you need help. <hr></blockquote>
I thought this had already been done by Your air force? I was talking about your indipendent militias. If it is one thing the region has more than enough of its indipendent militias, and they are on both sides...
[quote] quote:
?I didn't call him a nazi. ... These are exactly the same tactics used by the nazi occupation force in Europe, Soviet in East-Europe, China in Tibet and Indonesia on East-Timor?
Really? What tactics exactly?
P.S. The seige tactics I outlined earlier are exactly the same as those just recently used by NATO to defeat Yugoslavia in Kosovo. Were you protesting those "nazi" tactics when they were used then New? <hr></blockquote>
So Nato flooded Yougoslavia with counterfeit currency, threw out the Yougoslavian imigrant labour all over europe, and sent in the militia to do the dirty work?
[quote] Steve 666: PC KILLA kicked your ass in this debate, NEW. You should get more accurate info and more educated opinions NEW before you make yourself look sillier than you do now. <hr></blockquote>
In your eyes Bevis and Butthead would have cleaned the floor with me in this thread...
I had actually hoped to be able to take a more neutral stance here. Usually I find myself both defending and critising both sides in this conflict... but all the "arab-bashing" going on on this thread just can't go by unanswered...
Luckily I have more openminded Jewish friends and family I can talk with off these boards. we actually have conversations about how to solve the this conflict... <img src="graemlins/hmmm.gif" border="0" alt="[Hmmm]" />
I think the main problem in curbing the violence is public support. No matter how moderate a muslim may be he still supports the actions of heavily fundimental and militant muslims. No matter how harsh and devistating they may be. Even though they would never do something to that scale, it's accepted. On the contrary Christian love to poke fun and laugh at their ultra fundi and wacko Christians. Maybe that's because they're (christians) so fragmented. The last time christains tried that old trick was during WW2 when the catholics were covering up for Hitler's dirty little secret. But since then they've been bitch slapped repeatedly for their role and it's not even an issue anymore.
PC_KILLA, you have a lot of courage living in Israel. I don't think i could.
<strong>It is also worth noting that a part of the palestinan population and the Palestinian government is in fact christian...
I know. But they're not the ones doing the killing.</strong><hr></blockquote>
And many, in fact the overwhelming majority, of the palestinians, aren´t doing the killing either.
[quote]<strong>And I know this won't be brought up here, but our supposed allies in Pakistan are throwing grenades into christian churches. AGAIN.</strong><hr></blockquote>
And those who do that should be captured and put on trial but I fail to see what that have to do with the conflict between Israel and the Palestinians.
Ok. This is my last post here. I really don?t have the time nor the patience to conversate with trolls. Anders, I say this to you without malice and as a brother. You have some deep issues you need to resolve about your identity. I hope you don?t become defensive about what I?m about to say, but I think you need help. For your mother I would recommend watching the movie ?Sunshine?. This is the only movie I?ve watched twice other than BladeRunner. It?s based on a true story, and is very pertinent to Jews in Europe. I?ve lived in Toronto, Canada for six (6) years, so I know the kind of pressures Jews are subjected to. I can just imagine what Jews in Northern Europe are experiencing. But Anders, if you truly are Jewish, you will fight the current and ?think outside the box?. You sound like an intelligent person, so I think you might succeed. Who knows, maybe you?ll turn into another Einstein, or Freud, or Marks, or Herzl. They all distinguished themselves by creating a new paradigm of thinking. Best of luck to you.
To my Serbian brothers, I am with you and so are many Israelis. We understand Kosovo to you is like Hebron to us. Be patient. It won?t be long before the Arab/Islamic empire collapses. Their backward and corrupt society is due. Like I said before, they are living on borrowed time. And when their oil runs out, so will their time.
<strong>Anders ... You have some deep issues you need to resolve about your identity. I hope you don?t become defensive about what I?m about to say, but I think you need help.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Rest assured. Nothing you say about me will ever make me angry, defensive or anything else. It might amuse me but thats all
[quote]<strong>For your mother I would recommend watching the movie ?Sunshine?. This is the only movie I?ve watched twice other than BladeRunner. It?s based on a true story, and is very pertinent to Jews in Europe. I?ve lived in Toronto, Canada for six (6) years, so I know the kind of pressures Jews are subjected to. I can just imagine what Jews in Northern Europe are experiencing.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Jews aren´t subject to noticeable discrimination here. When asked what kind of persons people would not want to live next to or have their children marry less people have problems with jews than with muslims, homosexuals, people who smoke, fat people, nervous people, and AFAI remember even people belonging to very religious christian groupings. I´ll find the exact figures next time I´m at Uni. One of my professors just finished the largest survey of the values of the danish population and he asked exactly those questions.
I´m sorry that you are so misinformed about what goes on here but then again it could explain why you are so eager to stigmatize everybody based on what country they come from (like the french) or what religion they believe in (muslims).
[quote]<strong>But Anders, if you truly are Jewish,</strong><hr></blockquote>
I´m not
[quote]<strong>you will fight the current and ?think outside the box?.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Inside the box-thinking is looking at the specific case and say "Jews are always and everywhere persecuted" or "french are stupid frog eaters" or "Palestinians are all terrorists". Persons are prosecuted or terrorist (or frog eaters ). Sometimes Jews are terrorists and sometimes palestinians are the prosecuted. Your arguing clearly shows that you stay quite nicely inside your little box of prejudices. The world may be easier to understand but it doesn´t make it more right.
[quote]<strong>You sound like an intelligent person,</strong><hr></blockquote>
Why, thank you
[quote]<strong>so I think you might succeed. Who knows, maybe you?ll turn into another Einstein, or Freud, or Marks, or Herzl. They all distinguished themselves by creating a new paradigm of thinking. Best of luck to you.</strong><hr></blockquote>
As I see it we have two ways of thinking about this.
One where you take a "quality" and say that everyone belonging to a special group have this quality. Examples (from different time periodes): All All muslims hate jews, All palestinians are terrorists, all Jews are filthy and all red heads are hot in bed aso.
And another where you say people are what they are not what group they belong to.
The first way of seeing thing is very dangerous. It created the Endlösung, the punishment of families instead of individuals and the demolishing of the house belonging to the family of one of the suicide bomb terrorists. And it also make the children inherit the sins of their fathers (making every Palestine baby born a terrorist and every Israeli born a victim even before they are able to comprehend more than their parents faces)
And all you have said in this thread suggest you are subscribing to that first way of looking at things, perhaps most strongly with the end of your last post:
[quote]<strong>To my Serbian brothers, I am with you and so are many Israelis. We understand Kosovo to you is like Hebron to us. Be patient. It won?t be long before the Arab/Islamic empire collapses. Their backward and corrupt society is due. Like I said before, they are living on borrowed time. And when their oil runs out, so will their time.</strong><hr></blockquote>
If you ever find a better way of "thinking outside the box" I´ll listen very carefully. The way you are doing it now belong to the Middle Ages.
I was going to comment on your last 3-4 posts but I think New did a pretty good job and I would only be able to add little to what he said.
And many, in fact the overwhelming majority, of the palestinians, aren´t doing the killing either.
That's all very well, but my initial point was that even though the MAJORITY is not doing the killing, the MAJORITY also is not condemning the terrorist actions of the minority that do commit them. This makes the minority think they are fighting the good fight.
<strong>And many, in fact the overwhelming majority, of the palestinians, aren´t doing the killing either.
That's all very well, but my initial point was that even though the MAJORITY is not doing the killing, the MAJORITY also is not condemning the terrorist actions of the minority that do commit them. This makes the minority think they are fighting the good fight.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Yes i never went in Palestine but it certainly true, because it's the case in many country where there is terrorist, Terrorism is feeding himself on hate. That's why if you want to make it disapear, you must fight hate in the population (at the exception of the terrorist of course), any reaction who create more hate in the population is good for terrorists.
This one of the major reason, why it's so hard to struggle with the terrorism. You cannot deal with terrorist, but you can deal with people who just hate you. It's the only solution for peace.
Israel should have never been created on palestinian soil. Perhaps a part of Germany would have been more appropriate...
Huh? It wouldn't even be Israel if it was located in Germany. Might as well just call it Jewland, but it wouldn't be 'Israel'. Israel is not just the people but the location. That's like saying we should give back to the Ottomans their empire... but make it in Brazil now... yes Brazil is a nice place.
<strong>PC*KILLA would be the perfect anti-zionist troll to send out into the world and make everyone feel for the palestinians and hate the israelis.
Unfortunately he is not. He truly IS the representative of the warped way of thinking that israel employs to justify their fascist ways.</strong><hr></blockquote>
At first I thought he was a troll but when he linked to those "news sites" I realized he was the real stuff. But I don´t believe he live in Israel. He posted on the wrong time of the day among other things.
I really don´t think Israel is as warped as he is. Sharon may say things in the heat of the conflict but he isn´t stupid and deep inside he knows he can´t fight his way to peace. I´m not trying to defend him: He is the worst thing that have happened to the region in a long time but fair is fair: He isn´t stupid.
And the people of Israel is probably more divided than we are here. Parts of them dislike the policies of Sharon more than I do.
Comments
[quote]And I would suspend our membership in the U.N. until this Orwellian institution reforms itself.<hr></blockquote>
You know of course that you have the UN to thank for the creation of the state of Israel?
[quote]However, looking at history books, and seeing how most if not all nations acquired their lands, I do think Israel should take a lesson from these countries, and follow their example. I can assure you they?ll have plenty of people willing to help in this endeavor, me included.<hr></blockquote>
again... these are not the middle ages. There wouldn't have been any Isreali state at all if your logic was put to work.
[quote] From a military standpoint, I would simply declare war. I would try to avoid using ground troops in Judea Samaria and Gaza. This is a densely populated urban area and more suited to siege tactics than anything else. So here I would use the Air Force. I would use the Air Force to disable the electric grid in the area. I would use the Air Force to disable the telephone grid. I would disable the gas and petrol delivery systems. I would target their banking facilities. All this shouldn?t take more than a day to accomplish. Furthermore, I would flood their economy with counterfeit currency to completely destabilize their economy. I would create barriers to all goods and people trying to reach the area and make it clear to any Israeli employers that should they get caught with illegal Arab labour, the consequences will be dramatic.
In the event the U.S tries to block the above siege actions diplomatically I would encourage the creation of independent militias. These will operate regardless of the political climate and will take over in the event the regular army can?t be used to maintain the siege due to diplomatic pressures. <hr></blockquote>
you, my friend, are indeed advocating totaltarian means that can hardly be described as anything but facism... :eek:
<strong>right, nick. point taken!
you, my friend, are indeed advocating totaltarian means that can hardly be described as anything but facism... :eek: </strong><hr></blockquote>
Actually it's not "totaltarian" and not "facism". Those are descriptions of governments. What's described above is a war tactic. A democracy could use siege tactic against a enemy. It may seem like I'm picking nits but I think the misuse of words is a big problem today. In an effort ti "win" an argument people will toss in "nazi" "fascist" or whatever without using the work correctly.
THEN to be able to DISREGARD the world opinion and diplomatic pressure you creat "secret little armies"/ aka paramillitary units to fight you "war" (if this isn't just as terrorist as the HAMAS, then I don't know)...
Which part of this can actually be called a "war" fought by a "democratic" nation?
I didn't call him a nazi. I read the political, the diplomatic, and then more cloesly the millitary standpoint of "KILLA" and simply stated that I considered these views VERY close to facism... If the US had employd similar tactics in Afganistan, there is no telling how many more civilian lives would have been lost...
These are exactly the same tactics used by the nazi occupation force in Europe, Soviet in East-Europe, China in Tibet and Indonesia on East-Timor...
[ 03-16-2002: Message edited by: New ]</p>
Originally posted by New:
quote:
? you occupy a certain area for 35 years?
Actually it?s closer to 3500 years.
quote:
?when they start to "misbehave"?
Nice choice of words. This is the Viking in you talking now?
quote:
"you destroy their infrastructure"
Everything there in terms of infrastructure was build by Israel. And I did say disable did I not?
quote:
?THEN to be able to DISREGARD the world opinion?
You really have an inflated ego don't you?
quote:
?you creat "secret little armies"/ aka paramillitary units to fight you "war" ??
Nothing secret. Just independent.
quote:
?(if this isn't just as terrorist as the HAMAS, then I don't know)?
If disabling the electric/telephone grid in the area compares to sending people on mass murder rampages, well, all I can say is that you need help.
quote:
?Which part of this can actually be called a "war" fought by a "democratic" nation??
You really need help.
quote:
?I didn't call him a nazi. ... These are exactly the same tactics used by the nazi occupation force in Europe, Soviet in East-Europe, China in Tibet and Indonesia on East-Timor?
Really? What tactics exactly?
P.S. The seige tactics I outlined earlier are exactly the same as those just recently used by NATO to defeat Yugoslavia in Kosovo. Were you protesting those "nazi" tactics when they were used then New?
mika.
[ 03-16-2002: Message edited by: PC^KILLA ]
[ 03-16-2002: Message edited by: PC^KILLA ]</p>
<a href="http://forums.appleinsider.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=6&t=000899"; target="_blank">Should we change our stance on nuclear weapons.</a>
Press one button and our problems are solved.
[ 03-16-2002: Message edited by: ThinkingDifferent ]</p>
But don?t worry. This conflict is small potato?s? on the European scale. Only about a hundred years old. How long have the Europeans been going at each other?s throat now? a couple of millennia?
mika.
[ 03-17-2002: Message edited by: PC^KILLA ]</p>
quote:
? you occupy a certain area for 35 years?
Actually it?s closer to 3500 years. <hr></blockquote>
So the arabs have occupied Gaza and the West Bank for 3500 years?
what about the romans, crusaders, turks and english etc...?
[quote] quote:
?when they start to "misbehave"?
Nice choice of words. This is the Viking in you talking now? <hr></blockquote>
[quote] quote:
"you destroy their infrastructure"
Everything there in terms of infrastructure was build by Israel. And I did say disable did I not? <hr></blockquote>
The EU has documented Israeli destruction of EU-development projects in the territories costing over hundred of millions of dollars...
[quote] quote:
?THEN to be able to DISREGARD the world opinion?
You really have an inflated ego don't you? <hr></blockquote>
[quote] ?you creat "secret little armies"/ aka paramillitary units to fight you "war" ??
Nothing secret. Just independent. <hr></blockquote>
Like the Contras?
[quote] ?(if this isn't just as terrorist as the HAMAS, then I don't know)?
If disabling the electric/telephone grid in the area compares to sending people on mass murder rampages, well, all I can say is that you need help. <hr></blockquote>
I thought this had already been done by Your air force? I was talking about your indipendent militias. If it is one thing the region has more than enough of its indipendent militias, and they are on both sides...
[quote] quote:
?I didn't call him a nazi. ... These are exactly the same tactics used by the nazi occupation force in Europe, Soviet in East-Europe, China in Tibet and Indonesia on East-Timor?
Really? What tactics exactly?
P.S. The seige tactics I outlined earlier are exactly the same as those just recently used by NATO to defeat Yugoslavia in Kosovo. Were you protesting those "nazi" tactics when they were used then New? <hr></blockquote>
So Nato flooded Yougoslavia with counterfeit currency, threw out the Yougoslavian imigrant labour all over europe, and sent in the militia to do the dirty work?
[quote] Steve 666: PC KILLA kicked your ass in this debate, NEW. You should get more accurate info and more educated opinions NEW before you make yourself look sillier than you do now. <hr></blockquote>
I had actually hoped to be able to take a more neutral stance here. Usually I find myself both defending and critising both sides in this conflict... but all the "arab-bashing" going on on this thread just can't go by unanswered...
Luckily I have more openminded Jewish friends and family I can talk with off these boards. we actually have conversations about how to solve the this conflict... <img src="graemlins/hmmm.gif" border="0" alt="[Hmmm]" />
PC_KILLA, you have a lot of courage living in Israel. I don't think i could.
HAVE A NICE DAY!
Most muslims are normal people who want peace and a chance to make a living, like the rest of us...
It is also worth noting that a part of the palestinan population and the Palestinian government is in fact christian...
[ 03-17-2002: Message edited by: New ]</p>
I know. But they're not the ones doing the killing.
And I know this won't be brought up here, but our supposed allies in Pakistan are throwing grenades into christian churches. AGAIN.
<strong>It is also worth noting that a part of the palestinan population and the Palestinian government is in fact christian...
I know. But they're not the ones doing the killing.</strong><hr></blockquote>
And many, in fact the overwhelming majority, of the palestinians, aren´t doing the killing either.
[quote]<strong>And I know this won't be brought up here, but our supposed allies in Pakistan are throwing grenades into christian churches. AGAIN.</strong><hr></blockquote>
And those who do that should be captured and put on trial but I fail to see what that have to do with the conflict between Israel and the Palestinians.
To my Serbian brothers, I am with you and so are many Israelis. We understand Kosovo to you is like Hebron to us. Be patient. It won?t be long before the Arab/Islamic empire collapses. Their backward and corrupt society is due. Like I said before, they are living on borrowed time. And when their oil runs out, so will their time.
mika.
<strong>Anders ... You have some deep issues you need to resolve about your identity. I hope you don?t become defensive about what I?m about to say, but I think you need help.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Rest assured. Nothing you say about me will ever make me angry, defensive or anything else. It might amuse me but thats all
[quote]<strong>For your mother I would recommend watching the movie ?Sunshine?. This is the only movie I?ve watched twice other than BladeRunner. It?s based on a true story, and is very pertinent to Jews in Europe. I?ve lived in Toronto, Canada for six (6) years, so I know the kind of pressures Jews are subjected to. I can just imagine what Jews in Northern Europe are experiencing.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Jews aren´t subject to noticeable discrimination here. When asked what kind of persons people would not want to live next to or have their children marry less people have problems with jews than with muslims, homosexuals, people who smoke, fat people, nervous people, and AFAI remember even people belonging to very religious christian groupings. I´ll find the exact figures next time I´m at Uni. One of my professors just finished the largest survey of the values of the danish population and he asked exactly those questions.
I´m sorry that you are so misinformed about what goes on here but then again it could explain why you are so eager to stigmatize everybody based on what country they come from (like the french) or what religion they believe in (muslims).
[quote]<strong>But Anders, if you truly are Jewish,</strong><hr></blockquote>
I´m not
[quote]<strong>you will fight the current and ?think outside the box?.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Inside the box-thinking is looking at the specific case and say "Jews are always and everywhere persecuted" or "french are stupid frog eaters" or "Palestinians are all terrorists". Persons are prosecuted or terrorist (or frog eaters
[quote]<strong>You sound like an intelligent person,</strong><hr></blockquote>
Why, thank you
[quote]<strong>so I think you might succeed. Who knows, maybe you?ll turn into another Einstein, or Freud, or Marks, or Herzl. They all distinguished themselves by creating a new paradigm of thinking. Best of luck to you.</strong><hr></blockquote>
As I see it we have two ways of thinking about this.
One where you take a "quality" and say that everyone belonging to a special group have this quality. Examples (from different time periodes): All All muslims hate jews, All palestinians are terrorists, all Jews are filthy and all red heads are hot in bed aso.
And another where you say people are what they are not what group they belong to.
The first way of seeing thing is very dangerous. It created the Endlösung, the punishment of families instead of individuals and the demolishing of the house belonging to the family of one of the suicide bomb terrorists. And it also make the children inherit the sins of their fathers (making every Palestine baby born a terrorist and every Israeli born a victim even before they are able to comprehend more than their parents faces)
And all you have said in this thread suggest you are subscribing to that first way of looking at things, perhaps most strongly with the end of your last post:
[quote]<strong>To my Serbian brothers, I am with you and so are many Israelis. We understand Kosovo to you is like Hebron to us. Be patient. It won?t be long before the Arab/Islamic empire collapses. Their backward and corrupt society is due. Like I said before, they are living on borrowed time. And when their oil runs out, so will their time.</strong><hr></blockquote>
If you ever find a better way of "thinking outside the box" I´ll listen very carefully. The way you are doing it now belong to the Middle Ages.
I was going to comment on your last 3-4 posts but I think New did a pretty good job and I would only be able to add little to what he said.
[ 03-17-2002: Message edited by: Anders ]
[ 03-17-2002: Message edited by: Anders ]</p>
That's all very well, but my initial point was that even though the MAJORITY is not doing the killing, the MAJORITY also is not condemning the terrorist actions of the minority that do commit them. This makes the minority think they are fighting the good fight.
<strong>And many, in fact the overwhelming majority, of the palestinians, aren´t doing the killing either.
That's all very well, but my initial point was that even though the MAJORITY is not doing the killing, the MAJORITY also is not condemning the terrorist actions of the minority that do commit them. This makes the minority think they are fighting the good fight.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Yes i never went in Palestine but it certainly true, because it's the case in many country where there is terrorist, Terrorism is feeding himself on hate. That's why if you want to make it disapear, you must fight hate in the population (at the exception of the terrorist of course), any reaction who create more hate in the population is good for terrorists.
This one of the major reason, why it's so hard to struggle with the terrorism. You cannot deal with terrorist, but you can deal with people who just hate you. It's the only solution for peace.
Unfortunately he is not. He truly IS the representative of the warped way of thinking that israel employs to justify their fascist ways.
Israel should have never been created on palestinian soil. Perhaps a part of Germany would have been more appropriate...
I don't even know if I have any hope left for the region. It seems to me that no level headed leaders will ever be "allowed" to bridge two nations.
And killa, where was that jewish oppression in Toronto? Jeez...
Mat
Huh? It wouldn't even be Israel if it was located in Germany. Might as well just call it Jewland, but it wouldn't be 'Israel'. Israel is not just the people but the location. That's like saying we should give back to the Ottomans their empire... but make it in Brazil now... yes Brazil is a nice place.
<strong>PC*KILLA would be the perfect anti-zionist troll to send out into the world and make everyone feel for the palestinians and hate the israelis.
Unfortunately he is not. He truly IS the representative of the warped way of thinking that israel employs to justify their fascist ways.</strong><hr></blockquote>
At first I thought he was a troll but when he linked to those "news sites" I realized he was the real stuff. But I don´t believe he live in Israel. He posted on the wrong time of the day among other things.
I really don´t think Israel is as warped as he is. Sharon may say things in the heat of the conflict but he isn´t stupid and deep inside he knows he can´t fight his way to peace. I´m not trying to defend him: He is the worst thing that have happened to the region in a long time but fair is fair: He isn´t stupid.
And the people of Israel is probably more divided than we are here. Parts of them dislike the policies of Sharon more than I do.
[ 03-18-2002: Message edited by: Anders ]</p>