Actually I am stuck with my 3g for a few more weeks, then I will be a free agent. And while it may be off topic, may I say that updating to iOS4 has made my 3G as useless in every way as it is for making phone calls. An inglorious end to my first iPhone experience.
I went to the Apple store in Wayne NJ sunday and beheld the new iPhone 4. I compared the screen to mine and it was quite a blow away experience. It is with great regret that I cannot continue with an iPhone in my family of Mac products. I have everything Apple makes in my home and love the integration and all that.
As tempted as I might be to stick it out and hope for an ATT miracle by the end of summer (as Jobs hinted at during D8) reading about all these reception issues you all are having tells me what I have to do. Stay away from the iPhone.
I had better get off before Ireland finds out I am still babbling. I don't want to get in anymore trouble than I already am.
Apple is doomed, let's kill flash, spot on, totally agree.
Apple is not doomed, that joke is getting old. I told you you were babbling 'cause you response looked like you didn't even read my comment.
I don't see users only getting a rubber bumper, 'cause Apple would be forced to answer some tough questions. I don't love lawyers or class action suits, but as of now Apple don't feel obliged to treat is users with respect by giving them a decent response. Apple may be selling a lot of iPhones now, but as word spreads I see this issue affecting their sales compared to if they didn't have the issue. I personally put me off buying the phone, and I know it'll put other off. No, Apple isn't doomed, but if you think this won't affect Apple in any way you've (not you personally) your head in the clouds.
I have been put off too, but I remember the scratching incident with the iPod Nano. There was a class action and Apple settled and gave everyone a free case. Apple wouldn't be forced to answer anything as they can refute the motion as trade secrets and the Judge would seal any type of communication on the technical aspect of what is going on with these phones. Thus, the public would never know and Apple would, without admitting fault, give the users a free bumper to compensate for the issue, and would replace the phones that would not be resolved by a free bumper. They would instruct the Geniuses to blame all of the problems on not having the bumper and very few users would get a new phone unless they made a scene at the store or on the phone with Applecare.
This scenario could happen WITHOUT a class action suit. My point is that Apple NEVER feels obligated UNLESS we get together ourselves and document the issue and present a united front to Apple.
Apple might be dragging it's feet, or they might be seriously working on fixing the problem. You have to give them more time. I agree that saying nothing is bad, but Apple rarely says they screwed up right away.
It's the market that's taking a beating, AAPL is going along for the ride. It was up yesterday in the teeth of all this blog hysteria.
Your informal testing confirms what I have suspected all along. When someone suggests that what one normally experiences is a problem, it suddenly becomes a problem.
Well with the iPhone 4 what could be making the problem worse is the materials not the design. Lets remember that most smartphones are made mostly of rubber and plastic which are bad conductors, the iPhone is made mostly of glass and metal which could be making the issue stick out more.
I am certainly not an expert in this area but the fact a rubber bumper makes the issue better would lead me to believe the glass and metal combo could be making the issue worse if people are actually dropping calls or they see thier phone searching for a signal.
However all phones are not without problems. I will give you a good example. Yesterday HTC put out an FOTA update and it bricked up Evo in about 30 seconds. It was suppose to improve battery life, so I guess if your phone is bricked your battery lasts alot longer...LOL.
I disagree. With such a high profile company, a high profile product, and a high profile issue, threating a lawsuit and exposing this issue further may help force the hand of Apple to fix the issue before it ever gets close to going to court. But if people let this major issue slide, Apple might just sweep this under the carpet.
I agree about the threat, but don't mistake the lawyers motive for the threat. They want money and could care less about your issue. It's already in the press about the phone and there are a ton of people who are waiting to get it fixed or will buy something else.
Nokia and others are already taking pot shots at Apple. It's only a matter of time when Verizon makes a new commercial about left handed cellphone users.
I was told last week by an Apple level 2 technician that they would replace the phone. Today he called back, as he said he would, and told me that they wouldn't replace the phone because any replacement would do the same thing. He also said there was no point sending it in for repair because they would find nothing wrong with it. He said the iPhone 3G and 3GS antennas where the same (that wasn't my experience and not after I upgraded to iOS 4 either). He basically echoed SJ; hold it differently and try a case, which they won't give you one for free.
I'll see what happens with the SW update but I can't say I'm too hopefull. The technician didn't even mention it. This isn't the way to treat customers. It's simply an incredible phone and I can work around the issue by holding it differently and I'll likely get a case. In which case Apple will have made an extra £25 out of me because I wasn't planning on getting one.
Personally I think a lawsuit is very justified in this instance. If Apple had offered free cases they'd look a lot better right now than they do.
My 3GS has done the same thing as this since day one, I always wondered why the signal would mysteriously drop out at times, I thought maybe it was something to do with interference when the wifi is switched on. Since everyone started talking about this problem with iPhone 4 I tried holding it in the way described in my left hand and sure enough it causes the signal to drop out within a few seconds.
It seems like the problem is worse when the signal is not strong to begin with.
Well with the iPhone 4 what could be making the problem worse is the materials not the design. Lets remember that most smartphones are made mostly of rubber and plastic which are bad conductors, the iPhone is made mostly of glass and metal which could be making the issue stick out more. ...
Glass is not a conductor. The issue here is either the antenna itself, or some combination of the antenna and software, and possibly body chemistry. The variable in the analysis seems to be that it's not affecting everyone or all phones, although, that may be mistaken since it's not clear that everyone has actually attempted the experiment where they intentionally "short" the antenna with a finger, or found someone who can short it and applied them to phones that don't short for some.
There is a lot that I don't know about this issue. I know that I can reproduce the signal loss in ANY location with my new phone. I also know that while talking to the Apple store manager on saturday I could show him the exact issue and reproduce it for him. I know for a fact that 4 other 4G phone owners that were in the store could NOT produce the same error. I know for a fact that the only Apple representative I talked to was the store manager. His assesment was about 1% of the 4G owers were having this issue. So not everyone is having this issue. We need more data and time to really see what the issue is.
Also his representation was not official. It was just his opinion based on what he saw in his store.
I can only base my assumptions on my experiences.
I upgraded from a 3GS that had no issues. I could hold it anyway I wanted and make calls without getting dropped. I had no problem with AT&T service before my new 4G phone.
So what are your experiences with your 4G?
As I said earlier:
1. How do you know the manager is being truthful ?
2. How do you know the percentage of customers that are contacting Apple support directly and not the store ?
3. How do you know the percentage of people that have not had the time to experience the issue yet ?
4. How do you know the percentage of people that are just waiting for a fix without reporting the issue ?
5. How do you know the percentage of people that have not had time yet in their busy schedule to report the issue ?
6. If this only affects a certain frequency band, how do you know if maybe most of the area around this particular store is not serviced with the affected frequency band.
There are a lot variables that prevent you from coming up with your claim of only affecting 1% of Apple's iPhone 4 customers.
I have Iphone 4 and I live in Fremont , CA . I do not have any issues with reception or dropping calls or proximity sensor .. It is my third Iphone and best of all three.. Battery has improved and while i use GPS for Bike ride and turn by turn direction, Battery last much longer than before... I tried with my friends at work to hold it every which way to have drop bars and we were not successful ... May be we are not doing it right... .
It doesn't seem to affect every iPhone 4, we know this. Arnold Kim said it happens in some areas and not in others.
I have been put off too, but I remember the scratching incident with the iPod Nano. There was a class action and Apple settled and gave everyone a free case.
I think this is the first time I've heard of a class action suit against a product that has been out for so short of a time that EVERYONE CAN RETURN IT. Normally, I feel like class action suits are for people "stuck" with a product that has a well-known defect that was never recalled. People are not stuck in this case; they can still return it, right???
The real story is that the vast majority of 1.7 million iPhone 4 owners seem to be very happy with them. And that this new product design seems no more perfect nor flawed than any other of its type.
On forums, "The hand points at the moon, the fool looks at the finger."
Once upon a time, when someone would bring me their "stupid" horse to train, I would tell them that the base of the problem was at the other end of the lead line.
I agree about the threat, but don't mistake the lawyers motive for the threat. They want money and could care less about your issue. It's already in the press about the phone and there are a ton of people who are waiting to get it fixed or will buy something else.
Nokia and others are already taking pot shots at Apple. It's only a matter of time when Verizon makes a new commercial about left handed cellphone users.
Oh I agree the lawyers are doing it for the money. That's their job. No question. But, their work will be a much bigger hand then just you or me alone getting this issue resolved.
This is why I believe Steve's off-the-cuff emails will be the source of a growing rift between himself and the BoD, again.
I don't think Stevie will get in much trouble. He's no idiot; he'll do the logical thing - issue a patch to the software that also fine tunes the face detection and maybe saves a bit of power.
Then issue the patch, telling how this give the iPhone greater battery time and other miscellaneous software fixes - and ignore the entire antennae issue.
Personally, as an engineer - I do not know why Apple didn't clearcoat the metal bezel, or have it annodized with a non-conductive coating. This could be a Foxconn screw up - where a vital process was by-passed during the assembly process.
What I do find amazing, is that the 'fanbois' (who deserve riducule) call people who point out a design flaw as 'trolls'. They are brain-dead; I paid $200 and signed a 2 yr contract for a cell phone that doesn't work as advertized. I gave up an inferior phone from Verizon that had fantastic coverage, for a fantastic phone that can't make or make cell calls from my place of work.
To a intellectually degenerate fanboi - that's being a 'troll'. To a rational human, that's complaining about a product that does not work as promised. The iPhone G4 has 2 areas where improvement is necessary.
1) Antennae issue - I'd suggest a re-call and replace conductive bezel iPhones with iPhones with non-conductive coatings on the metal bezel
2.) Proximity detector - phone switches to Speakerphone, or Mute or even hangs up during a phone call. All you have to do is let your cheek touch the phone. This is the entire purpose of the iPhone proximity detector - this is simply a software patch.
Both sides of this matter need to take a deep breath and chill. We don't really know what the problem is. Only Apple would know. If it is software, which it could conceivably be, then it can get fix. If the upcoming software update doesn't fix it then other then people can complain heartily and Apple will probably be forced to replace the iPhone through upcoming lawsuits like this one.
I'm content to wait until the end of July when my contract ends to weigh my options.
I think this is the first time I've heard of a class action suit against a product that has been out for so short of a time that EVERYONE CAN RETURN IT. Normally, I feel like class action suits are for people "stuck" with a product that has a well-known defect that was never recalled. People are not stuck in this case; they can still return it, right???
I'm not a lawyer; but this could be a case of false advertizing. I paid a penalty to leave Verizon (early temination) to switch to what a rational person would presume to be a fully functional cell phone. I now have a cell phone that does not function as a cell phone at my place of business - whereas my Verizon phone functioned perfectly.
Thus, my damages not only include missed phone and missed business opportunties, but my early termination fees (which I cannot recover) from Verizon. So, simply giving me my money back still leaves me financially punished. Hence, class action lawsuit.
Comments
Yeah, come on Ireland. I like you, but you're kind of stepping in it here. Read between the lines and don't worry about being right on this one.
Being right? Give me a break.
Actually I am stuck with my 3g for a few more weeks, then I will be a free agent. And while it may be off topic, may I say that updating to iOS4 has made my 3G as useless in every way as it is for making phone calls. An inglorious end to my first iPhone experience.
I went to the Apple store in Wayne NJ sunday and beheld the new iPhone 4. I compared the screen to mine and it was quite a blow away experience. It is with great regret that I cannot continue with an iPhone in my family of Mac products. I have everything Apple makes in my home and love the integration and all that.
As tempted as I might be to stick it out and hope for an ATT miracle by the end of summer (as Jobs hinted at during D8) reading about all these reception issues you all are having tells me what I have to do. Stay away from the iPhone.
I had better get off before Ireland finds out I am still babbling. I don't want to get in anymore trouble than I already am.
Apple is doomed, let's kill flash, spot on, totally agree.
Apple is not doomed, that joke is getting old. I told you you were babbling 'cause you response looked like you didn't even read my comment.
I don't see users only getting a rubber bumper, 'cause Apple would be forced to answer some tough questions. I don't love lawyers or class action suits, but as of now Apple don't feel obliged to treat is users with respect by giving them a decent response. Apple may be selling a lot of iPhones now, but as word spreads I see this issue affecting their sales compared to if they didn't have the issue. I personally put me off buying the phone, and I know it'll put other off. No, Apple isn't doomed, but if you think this won't affect Apple in any way you've (not you personally) your head in the clouds.
I have been put off too, but I remember the scratching incident with the iPod Nano. There was a class action and Apple settled and gave everyone a free case. Apple wouldn't be forced to answer anything as they can refute the motion as trade secrets and the Judge would seal any type of communication on the technical aspect of what is going on with these phones. Thus, the public would never know and Apple would, without admitting fault, give the users a free bumper to compensate for the issue, and would replace the phones that would not be resolved by a free bumper. They would instruct the Geniuses to blame all of the problems on not having the bumper and very few users would get a new phone unless they made a scene at the store or on the phone with Applecare.
This scenario could happen WITHOUT a class action suit. My point is that Apple NEVER feels obligated UNLESS we get together ourselves and document the issue and present a united front to Apple.
Apple might be dragging it's feet, or they might be seriously working on fixing the problem. You have to give them more time. I agree that saying nothing is bad, but Apple rarely says they screwed up right away.
It's the market that's taking a beating, AAPL is going along for the ride. It was up yesterday in the teeth of all this blog hysteria.
Your informal testing confirms what I have suspected all along. When someone suggests that what one normally experiences is a problem, it suddenly becomes a problem.
Well with the iPhone 4 what could be making the problem worse is the materials not the design. Lets remember that most smartphones are made mostly of rubber and plastic which are bad conductors, the iPhone is made mostly of glass and metal which could be making the issue stick out more.
I am certainly not an expert in this area but the fact a rubber bumper makes the issue better would lead me to believe the glass and metal combo could be making the issue worse if people are actually dropping calls or they see thier phone searching for a signal.
However all phones are not without problems. I will give you a good example. Yesterday HTC put out an FOTA update and it bricked up Evo in about 30 seconds. It was suppose to improve battery life, so I guess if your phone is bricked your battery lasts alot longer...LOL.
I disagree. With such a high profile company, a high profile product, and a high profile issue, threating a lawsuit and exposing this issue further may help force the hand of Apple to fix the issue before it ever gets close to going to court. But if people let this major issue slide, Apple might just sweep this under the carpet.
I agree about the threat, but don't mistake the lawyers motive for the threat. They want money and could care less about your issue. It's already in the press about the phone and there are a ton of people who are waiting to get it fixed or will buy something else.
Nokia and others are already taking pot shots at Apple. It's only a matter of time when Verizon makes a new commercial about left handed cellphone users.
I was told last week by an Apple level 2 technician that they would replace the phone. Today he called back, as he said he would, and told me that they wouldn't replace the phone because any replacement would do the same thing. He also said there was no point sending it in for repair because they would find nothing wrong with it. He said the iPhone 3G and 3GS antennas where the same (that wasn't my experience and not after I upgraded to iOS 4 either). He basically echoed SJ; hold it differently and try a case, which they won't give you one for free.
I'll see what happens with the SW update but I can't say I'm too hopefull. The technician didn't even mention it. This isn't the way to treat customers. It's simply an incredible phone and I can work around the issue by holding it differently and I'll likely get a case. In which case Apple will have made an extra £25 out of me because I wasn't planning on getting one.
Personally I think a lawsuit is very justified in this instance. If Apple had offered free cases they'd look a lot better right now than they do.
My 3GS has done the same thing as this since day one, I always wondered why the signal would mysteriously drop out at times, I thought maybe it was something to do with interference when the wifi is switched on. Since everyone started talking about this problem with iPhone 4 I tried holding it in the way described in my left hand and sure enough it causes the signal to drop out within a few seconds.
It seems like the problem is worse when the signal is not strong to begin with.
At least I know what causes it now.
Well with the iPhone 4 what could be making the problem worse is the materials not the design. Lets remember that most smartphones are made mostly of rubber and plastic which are bad conductors, the iPhone is made mostly of glass and metal which could be making the issue stick out more. ...
Glass is not a conductor. The issue here is either the antenna itself, or some combination of the antenna and software, and possibly body chemistry. The variable in the analysis seems to be that it's not affecting everyone or all phones, although, that may be mistaken since it's not clear that everyone has actually attempted the experiment where they intentionally "short" the antenna with a finger, or found someone who can short it and applied them to phones that don't short for some.
There is a lot that I don't know about this issue. I know that I can reproduce the signal loss in ANY location with my new phone. I also know that while talking to the Apple store manager on saturday I could show him the exact issue and reproduce it for him. I know for a fact that 4 other 4G phone owners that were in the store could NOT produce the same error. I know for a fact that the only Apple representative I talked to was the store manager. His assesment was about 1% of the 4G owers were having this issue. So not everyone is having this issue. We need more data and time to really see what the issue is.
Also his representation was not official. It was just his opinion based on what he saw in his store.
I can only base my assumptions on my experiences.
I upgraded from a 3GS that had no issues. I could hold it anyway I wanted and make calls without getting dropped. I had no problem with AT&T service before my new 4G phone.
So what are your experiences with your 4G?
As I said earlier:
1. How do you know the manager is being truthful ?
2. How do you know the percentage of customers that are contacting Apple support directly and not the store ?
3. How do you know the percentage of people that have not had the time to experience the issue yet ?
4. How do you know the percentage of people that are just waiting for a fix without reporting the issue ?
5. How do you know the percentage of people that have not had time yet in their busy schedule to report the issue ?
6. If this only affects a certain frequency band, how do you know if maybe most of the area around this particular store is not serviced with the affected frequency band.
There are a lot variables that prevent you from coming up with your claim of only affecting 1% of Apple's iPhone 4 customers.
I have Iphone 4 and I live in Fremont , CA . I do not have any issues with reception or dropping calls or proximity sensor .. It is my third Iphone and best of all three.. Battery has improved and while i use GPS for Bike ride and turn by turn direction, Battery last much longer than before... I tried with my friends at work to hold it every which way to have drop bars and we were not successful ... May be we are not doing it right...
It doesn't seem to affect every iPhone 4, we know this. Arnold Kim said it happens in some areas and not in others.
And the douche of the day award goes to...
Damn, that's funny!
I have been put off too, but I remember the scratching incident with the iPod Nano. There was a class action and Apple settled and gave everyone a free case.
That's a slightly different matter, to be fair.
The real story is that the vast majority of 1.7 million iPhone 4 owners seem to be very happy with them. And that this new product design seems no more perfect nor flawed than any other of its type.
On forums, "The hand points at the moon, the fool looks at the finger."
Once upon a time, when someone would bring me their "stupid" horse to train, I would tell them that the base of the problem was at the other end of the lead line.
I agree about the threat, but don't mistake the lawyers motive for the threat. They want money and could care less about your issue. It's already in the press about the phone and there are a ton of people who are waiting to get it fixed or will buy something else.
Nokia and others are already taking pot shots at Apple. It's only a matter of time when Verizon makes a new commercial about left handed cellphone users.
Oh I agree the lawyers are doing it for the money. That's their job. No question. But, their work will be a much bigger hand then just you or me alone getting this issue resolved.
What is wrong with you?
Exactly how much time do you have?
This is why I believe Steve's off-the-cuff emails will be the source of a growing rift between himself and the BoD, again.
I don't think Stevie will get in much trouble. He's no idiot; he'll do the logical thing - issue a patch to the software that also fine tunes the face detection and maybe saves a bit of power.
Then issue the patch, telling how this give the iPhone greater battery time and other miscellaneous software fixes - and ignore the entire antennae issue.
Personally, as an engineer - I do not know why Apple didn't clearcoat the metal bezel, or have it annodized with a non-conductive coating. This could be a Foxconn screw up - where a vital process was by-passed during the assembly process.
What I do find amazing, is that the 'fanbois' (who deserve riducule) call people who point out a design flaw as 'trolls'. They are brain-dead; I paid $200 and signed a 2 yr contract for a cell phone that doesn't work as advertized. I gave up an inferior phone from Verizon that had fantastic coverage, for a fantastic phone that can't make or make cell calls from my place of work.
To a intellectually degenerate fanboi - that's being a 'troll'. To a rational human, that's complaining about a product that does not work as promised. The iPhone G4 has 2 areas where improvement is necessary.
1) Antennae issue - I'd suggest a re-call and replace conductive bezel iPhones with iPhones with non-conductive coatings on the metal bezel
2.) Proximity detector - phone switches to Speakerphone, or Mute or even hangs up during a phone call. All you have to do is let your cheek touch the phone. This is the entire purpose of the iPhone proximity detector - this is simply a software patch.
A few people I work with are already joining in on the lawsuit.
Wow. Did they get like t-shirts, buttons, a membership card and a secret handshake?
Apple is not doomed, that joke is getting old. I told you you were babbling 'cause you response looked like you didn't even read my comment.
Wait a minute! Someone tells that joke every day and someone always posts a smiley face and says it made their day. When I tell it I bomb!
Is it my delivery??
I'm content to wait until the end of July when my contract ends to weigh my options.
I think this is the first time I've heard of a class action suit against a product that has been out for so short of a time that EVERYONE CAN RETURN IT. Normally, I feel like class action suits are for people "stuck" with a product that has a well-known defect that was never recalled. People are not stuck in this case; they can still return it, right???
I'm not a lawyer; but this could be a case of false advertizing. I paid a penalty to leave Verizon (early temination) to switch to what a rational person would presume to be a fully functional cell phone. I now have a cell phone that does not function as a cell phone at my place of business - whereas my Verizon phone functioned perfectly.
Thus, my damages not only include missed phone and missed business opportunties, but my early termination fees (which I cannot recover) from Verizon. So, simply giving me my money back still leaves me financially punished. Hence, class action lawsuit.