1. How do you know the manager is being truthful ?
2. How do you know the percentage of customers that are contacting Apple support directly and not the store ?
3. How do you know the percentage of people that have not had the time to experience the issue yet ?
4. How do you know the percentage of people that are just waiting for a fix without reporting the issue ?
5. How do you know the percentage of people that have not had time yet in their busy schedule to report the issue ?
6. If this only affects a certain frequency band, how do you know if maybe most of the area around this store is not serviced with the affected frequency band.
There are a lot variables that prevent you from coming up with your claim of only affecting 1% of Apple's iPhone 4 customers.
You bring up some resonable doubt...but then you take it too far. You can't question everything and cast doubt or deciet on it. That leads to no where.
1) I have no reason to doubt the store manager. he was an average Joe just trying to help.
2, 3 4 5) I don't know the percentage of people that are in the process of discovering this issue or reporting it or waiting for a fix.
6) I can repoduce the signal loss at home, work, apple store and everywhere I went over the weekend in the Phoenix area where I live.
I know that I have restored the phone to factory defaults from itunes several times at the suggestion from Apple personnel. I know that the manager re provissioned my phone and changed/reset every setting he could to try to reslove the issue for me. I have no reason to doubt him.
Both sides of this matter need to take a deep breath and chill. We don't really know what the problem is. Only Apple would know. If it is software, which it could conceivably be, then it can get fix. If the upcoming software update doesn't fix it then other then people can complain heartily and Apple will probably be forced to replace the iPhone through upcoming lawsuits like this one.
I'm content to wait until the end of July when my contract ends to weigh my options.
Apple is claiming there is no reception issue. That is why this issue is escalating. Why would Apple fix something they claim is not broken ?
Both sides of this matter need to take a deep breath and chill. We don't really know what the problem is. Only Apple would know. If it is software, which it could conceivably be, then it can get fix. If the upcoming software update doesn't fix it then other then people can complain heartily and Apple will probably be forced to replace the iPhone through upcoming lawsuits like this one.
I'm content to wait until the end of July when my contract ends to weigh my options.
So we should all shut up - until YOUR contract ends? You must think pretty highly of yourself.
Me, I'm out a early termination fee from Verizon - because I believed the iPhone G4 would actually function as a cell phone. If I get my money back from Apple for the G4, I'm still out the money I paid to Verizon to leave - under the assumption that Apple could deliver a G4 phone that functioned at least as well as thier earlier products.
Meanwhile, I have a cell phone that does not function at my place of work. Verizon managed to service this area without issue. This is NOT a desolate area - yet my Apple phone cannot maintain connectivity with the AT&T towers.
You bring up some resonable doubt...but then you take it too far. You can't question everything and cast doubt or deciet on it. That leads to no where.
1) I have no reason to doubt the store manager. he was an average Joe just trying to help.
2, 3 4 5) I don't know the percentage of people that are in the process of discovering this issue or reporting it or waiting for a fix.
6) I can repoduce the signal loss at home, work, apple store and everywhere I went over the weekend in the Phoenix area where I live.
I know that I have restored the phone to factory defaults from itunes several times at the suggestion from Apple personnel. I know that the manager re provissioned my phone and changed/reset every setting he could to try to reslove the issue for me. I have no reason to doubt him.
My whole point is that your claim of only affecting 1% of Apple's iPhone customers could be very far from a possible much higher true percentage. Your 1% claim is not based on facts that will give an accurate picture.
Oh I agree the lawyers are doing it for the money. That's their job. No question. But, their work will be a much bigger hand then just you or me alone getting this issue resolved.
I'm not so sure that you couldn't do a better job. If you've ever hired a lawyer for a civil matter, I think you would agree. Most of them just look at procedures and case history and copy it. The work they have to do is just get people's stories (like we have here) and their info. Then we file a complaint that alleges that Apple knowingly sold this product with defects and list the users as co-plaintiffs as a class action. Apple responds denying all allegations and then we set a trial date. Which could take YEARS. In the meantime, enjoy your phone.
It would be faster to involve the attorney generals office of all the states in where we live. That way it gets resolved faster. Plus, since all of our states are cash-strapped, they see $$ for their state coming from Apple in the way of fines and punitive damages.
Nope, they're just going to sue Apple because being anti-Apple is the new fad. But then again, I wouldn't trust them to hit the broad side of a barn with a bulldozer, what with them suing Facebook for Zynga's ads.
Lawsuits like this concern one thing and one thing only... money for the lawfirm. In a class-action the people eager to jump on board with hopes of collecting some kind of jackpot (also known as the "something for nothing" gambit) will ultimately collect a few pennies, while the legal firm collects millions. If you either like Apple's products or are a shareholder, you'd be better served by simply taking your complaint directly to Apple to resolve your issue(s). At worst, you'll get your money back, although if the problem is as they've claimed, a software update will iron things out. Don't believe for a second you'll be doing anyone other than the lawyers a favor by responding to these lawyers. Also, AI... WTF? We're you paid by this law firm to publish their contact information? That's a new low even for you guys.
True, but the point is made to reflect how easy it is to brush off a class action. Plus we don't know how much the lawyers made and we get a freakin rubber case, not a new nano.
While I think the lawsuit is ridiculous, there IS a problem for quite a few people. Holding my iPhone 4 normally in my left hand results in 1 bar or "No Service" within 30 seconds and I can't make calls or connect to the internet. I don't even have to do a tight "death grip" on it, I just merely need to place it slightly cupped in my hand.
If I do this with my wife's 3GS, I might see one bar drop, but I can still make calls and the download/upload 3G speeds are barely affected.
Now, those are just my results. Other people have mentioned similar findings -- so instead of everyone blindly defending Apple, can some of you at least acknowledge that something is going on that is not the fault of the customer?
You are barking up the wrong tree my friend. This forum is not going to listen to anything slightest in the direction of a potential problem. They will ask you, the consumer, who paid $299 and committed to a 2 year contract, to bow to insults from this forum, indifference from Apple and ATT, but just be quiet and not say a word.
My whole point is that your claim of only affecting 1% of Apple's iPhone customers could be very far from a possible much higher true percentage. Your 1% claim is not based on facts that will give an accurate picture.
Exactly!!! LOL I stated that same fact in all of my posts. I claimed nothing as official.
But the same doubts can be cast on any point you are trying make as well.
We all do not have anything official....we are all commentating on our on experiences.
You forgot the "Stay tuned" part following that statement.
To me that means that they'll issue an update or come with an explanation soon.
Stay tuned to a fix ? Possible ? But then why did he prefix that statement with 'There is no reception issue' ? And did this statement truly come from Apple. That has not been completely proven.
How do you know this issue only affects a very small percentage ? And how do you all iPhone 4's are not affected ? It could just depend on the user's location (frequency band used/ signal strength, etc). There are a lot of assumptions on your part.
The only thing we really know with certainty at this point is that we know nothing with certainty. We have the accounts of people who believe they are experiencing some kind of problem. We also have accounts of people who say they are having no problem at all. There are no hard numbers and nothing approaching rigorous, lab-based, double-blind, controlled, scientific testing. Who do we give more credence to, satisfied customers or dissatisfied ones? What are the ratios between them? We really don't know. We can only guess.
Apple knows more about this phone than anyone--they designed and built it (or had it built for them for you sticklers out there). If anyone can get to the bottom of this, it is they who will. Watchful waiting is the correct posture. Others may say that all this kerfuffle is useful because it creates pressure on Apple to do the right thing. They may be right.
So have your say, everyone. Just try to keep it all in perspective. And don't be nasty with each other.
Yep, I agree. The problem is it is so far ahead the competition have to resort to 'swift boat tactics.'
That is exactly what is happening. No reply means guilty. People want answers right now dammit!!! Well, maybe they don't have the exact answer right now. Do you want them to pull a BP and guess? Or, would you rather give them a reasonable amount of time to figure out what the exact issues are and then address them.
Exactly!!! LOL I stated that same fact in all of my posts. I claimed nothing as official.
But the same doubts can be cast on any point you are trying make as well.
We all do not have anything official....we are all commentating on our on experiences.
Do you have a 4G phone?
But you where the one spitting out facts that it only affects a small percentage. You even gave it a number. You said it only affects 1%. Why make claims that are very possibly completely inaccurate, and could be a much higher percentage ? Maybe even affecting *most* customers. That's why I had to call you on your claim.
No, I do not have an iPhone 4. I have an iPhone 3GS. I was going to wait in line the 1st day to get an iPhone 4, but when the issue started appearing Wed night, I decided to wait. Late last week, I went to the Apple store and tested several different iPhone 4's. I was able to duplicate the issue on every one of them. And I have seen very compelling videos of the issue being duplicated. And read articles from reputable authors reporting the issue. And I'm very disappointed in Apple's response to this issue so far. So, I'm in a holding pattern to see if this issue gets resolved soon.
I'm not a lawyer; but this could be a case of false advertizing. I paid a penalty to leave Verizon (early temination) to switch to what a rational person would presume to be a fully functional cell phone. I now have a cell phone that does not function as a cell phone at my place of business - whereas my Verizon phone functioned perfectly.
Thus, my damages not only include missed phone and missed business opportunties, but my early termination fees (which I cannot recover) from Verizon. So, simply giving me my money back still leaves me financially punished. Hence, class action lawsuit.
Nah, you're screwed. Apple makes no promise on network availability. Neither does ATT or Verizon for that matter. Read the toilet paper they call a contract and see. You are not eligible to get any damages for what you are claiming. You can only get out of your contract with AT&T and return your phone. You will be liable for the phone calls you have made and you wont be getting back your activation fee.
Apple is claiming there is no reception issue. That is why this issue is escalating. Why would Apple fix something they claim is not broken ?
Well Steve also said in an email to "stay tuned" and Mossberg said that Apple told him it would be fixed in a software update. To be honest, I don't know if a software update will fix it and I remain skeptical. I'm not willing to act like I know what the problem is and to assume I know more than Apple does about their phone.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hodar
So we should all shut up - until YOUR contract ends? You must think pretty highly of yourself.
Me, I'm out a early termination fee from Verizon - because I believed the iPhone G4 would actually function as a cell phone. If I get my money back from Apple for the G4, I'm still out the money I paid to Verizon to leave - under the assumption that Apple could deliver a G4 phone that functioned at least as well as thier earlier products.
Meanwhile, I have a cell phone that does not function at my place of work. Verizon managed to service this area without issue. This is NOT a desolate area - yet my Apple phone cannot maintain connectivity with the AT&T towers.
It's comments like these I'm referring to. The issue you are describing seems to be a problem with AT&T, not Apple. The iPhone 4 actually has better reception from all reviews and secondhand stories. The issue seems to be a dropping signal when held in a certain way (blocking the antenna).
If you think it is the iPhone:
1. Why can't you wait two weeks in which there will be a software update?
2. Did you buy a bumper?
3.If the bumper doesn't work, and from all reports/videos it does, then you can always return it. I can't help you with the early termination fee but it's the price you pay when you're an early adopter without reading any reviews.
Comments
As I said earlier:
1. How do you know the manager is being truthful ?
2. How do you know the percentage of customers that are contacting Apple support directly and not the store ?
3. How do you know the percentage of people that have not had the time to experience the issue yet ?
4. How do you know the percentage of people that are just waiting for a fix without reporting the issue ?
5. How do you know the percentage of people that have not had time yet in their busy schedule to report the issue ?
6. If this only affects a certain frequency band, how do you know if maybe most of the area around this store is not serviced with the affected frequency band.
There are a lot variables that prevent you from coming up with your claim of only affecting 1% of Apple's iPhone 4 customers.
You bring up some resonable doubt...but then you take it too far. You can't question everything and cast doubt or deciet on it. That leads to no where.
1) I have no reason to doubt the store manager. he was an average Joe just trying to help.
2, 3 4 5) I don't know the percentage of people that are in the process of discovering this issue or reporting it or waiting for a fix.
6) I can repoduce the signal loss at home, work, apple store and everywhere I went over the weekend in the Phoenix area where I live.
I know that I have restored the phone to factory defaults from itunes several times at the suggestion from Apple personnel. I know that the manager re provissioned my phone and changed/reset every setting he could to try to reslove the issue for me. I have no reason to doubt him.
Both sides of this matter need to take a deep breath and chill. We don't really know what the problem is. Only Apple would know. If it is software, which it could conceivably be, then it can get fix. If the upcoming software update doesn't fix it then other then people can complain heartily and Apple will probably be forced to replace the iPhone through upcoming lawsuits like this one.
I'm content to wait until the end of July when my contract ends to weigh my options.
Apple is claiming there is no reception issue. That is why this issue is escalating. Why would Apple fix something they claim is not broken ?
Both sides of this matter need to take a deep breath and chill. We don't really know what the problem is. Only Apple would know. If it is software, which it could conceivably be, then it can get fix. If the upcoming software update doesn't fix it then other then people can complain heartily and Apple will probably be forced to replace the iPhone through upcoming lawsuits like this one.
I'm content to wait until the end of July when my contract ends to weigh my options.
So we should all shut up - until YOUR contract ends? You must think pretty highly of yourself.
Me, I'm out a early termination fee from Verizon - because I believed the iPhone G4 would actually function as a cell phone. If I get my money back from Apple for the G4, I'm still out the money I paid to Verizon to leave - under the assumption that Apple could deliver a G4 phone that functioned at least as well as thier earlier products.
Meanwhile, I have a cell phone that does not function at my place of work. Verizon managed to service this area without issue. This is NOT a desolate area - yet my Apple phone cannot maintain connectivity with the AT&T towers.
You bring up some resonable doubt...but then you take it too far. You can't question everything and cast doubt or deciet on it. That leads to no where.
1) I have no reason to doubt the store manager. he was an average Joe just trying to help.
2, 3 4 5) I don't know the percentage of people that are in the process of discovering this issue or reporting it or waiting for a fix.
6) I can repoduce the signal loss at home, work, apple store and everywhere I went over the weekend in the Phoenix area where I live.
I know that I have restored the phone to factory defaults from itunes several times at the suggestion from Apple personnel. I know that the manager re provissioned my phone and changed/reset every setting he could to try to reslove the issue for me. I have no reason to doubt him.
My whole point is that your claim of only affecting 1% of Apple's iPhone customers could be very far from a possible much higher true percentage. Your 1% claim is not based on facts that will give an accurate picture.
Apple is claiming there is no reception issue. That is why this issue is escalating. Why would Apple fix something they claim is not broken ?
You forgot the "Stay tuned" part following that statement.
To me that means that they'll issue an update or come with an explanation soon.
Oh I agree the lawyers are doing it for the money. That's their job. No question. But, their work will be a much bigger hand then just you or me alone getting this issue resolved.
I'm not so sure that you couldn't do a better job. If you've ever hired a lawyer for a civil matter, I think you would agree. Most of them just look at procedures and case history and copy it. The work they have to do is just get people's stories (like we have here) and their info. Then we file a complaint that alleges that Apple knowingly sold this product with defects and list the users as co-plaintiffs as a class action. Apple responds denying all allegations and then we set a trial date. Which could take YEARS. In the meantime, enjoy your phone.
It would be faster to involve the attorney generals office of all the states in where we live. That way it gets resolved faster. Plus, since all of our states are cash-strapped, they see $$ for their state coming from Apple in the way of fines and punitive damages.
Yep have to love it, technology ambulance chasers.....
That is exactly what came to my mind!
Nope, they're just going to sue Apple because being anti-Apple is the new fad. But then again, I wouldn't trust them to hit the broad side of a barn with a bulldozer, what with them suing Facebook for Zynga's ads.
Lawsuits like this concern one thing and one thing only... money for the lawfirm. In a class-action the people eager to jump on board with hopes of collecting some kind of jackpot (also known as the "something for nothing" gambit) will ultimately collect a few pennies, while the legal firm collects millions. If you either like Apple's products or are a shareholder, you'd be better served by simply taking your complaint directly to Apple to resolve your issue(s). At worst, you'll get your money back, although if the problem is as they've claimed, a software update will iron things out. Don't believe for a second you'll be doing anyone other than the lawyers a favor by responding to these lawyers. Also, AI... WTF? We're you paid by this law firm to publish their contact information? That's a new low even for you guys.
That's a slightly different matter, to be fair.
True, but the point is made to reflect how easy it is to brush off a class action. Plus we don't know how much the lawyers made and we get a freakin rubber case, not a new nano.
While I think the lawsuit is ridiculous, there IS a problem for quite a few people. Holding my iPhone 4 normally in my left hand results in 1 bar or "No Service" within 30 seconds and I can't make calls or connect to the internet. I don't even have to do a tight "death grip" on it, I just merely need to place it slightly cupped in my hand.
If I do this with my wife's 3GS, I might see one bar drop, but I can still make calls and the download/upload 3G speeds are barely affected.
Now, those are just my results. Other people have mentioned similar findings -- so instead of everyone blindly defending Apple, can some of you at least acknowledge that something is going on that is not the fault of the customer?
You are barking up the wrong tree my friend. This forum is not going to listen to anything slightest in the direction of a potential problem. They will ask you, the consumer, who paid $299 and committed to a 2 year contract, to bow to insults from this forum, indifference from Apple and ATT, but just be quiet and not say a word.
My whole point is that your claim of only affecting 1% of Apple's iPhone customers could be very far from a possible much higher true percentage. Your 1% claim is not based on facts that will give an accurate picture.
Exactly!!! LOL I stated that same fact in all of my posts. I claimed nothing as official.
But the same doubts can be cast on any point you are trying make as well.
We all do not have anything official....we are all commentating on our on experiences.
Do you have a 4G phone?
You forgot the "Stay tuned" part following that statement.
To me that means that they'll issue an update or come with an explanation soon.
Stay tuned to a fix ? Possible ? But then why did he prefix that statement with 'There is no reception issue' ? And did this statement truly come from Apple. That has not been completely proven.
How do you know this issue only affects a very small percentage ? And how do you all iPhone 4's are not affected ? It could just depend on the user's location (frequency band used/ signal strength, etc). There are a lot of assumptions on your part.
The only thing we really know with certainty at this point is that we know nothing with certainty. We have the accounts of people who believe they are experiencing some kind of problem. We also have accounts of people who say they are having no problem at all. There are no hard numbers and nothing approaching rigorous, lab-based, double-blind, controlled, scientific testing. Who do we give more credence to, satisfied customers or dissatisfied ones? What are the ratios between them? We really don't know. We can only guess.
Apple knows more about this phone than anyone--they designed and built it (or had it built for them for you sticklers out there). If anyone can get to the bottom of this, it is they who will. Watchful waiting is the correct posture. Others may say that all this kerfuffle is useful because it creates pressure on Apple to do the right thing. They may be right.
So have your say, everyone. Just try to keep it all in perspective. And don't be nasty with each other.
Wait a minute! Someone tells that joke every day and someone always posts a smiley face and says it made their day. When I tell it I bomb!
Is it my delivery??
Ok ok, let's move on.
Yep, I agree. The problem is it is so far ahead the competition have to resort to 'swift boat tactics.'
That is exactly what is happening. No reply means guilty. People want answers right now dammit!!! Well, maybe they don't have the exact answer right now. Do you want them to pull a BP and guess? Or, would you rather give them a reasonable amount of time to figure out what the exact issues are and then address them.
Wait a minute! Someone tells that joke every day and someone always posts a smiley face and says it made their day. When I tell it I bomb!
Is it my delivery??
It's all in the timing.
You forgot the "Stay tuned" part following that statement.
To me that means that they'll issue an update or come with an explanation soon.
That particular e-mail didn't have header that Arnold Kim could verify. All the other related previous e-mails did.
Exactly!!! LOL I stated that same fact in all of my posts. I claimed nothing as official.
But the same doubts can be cast on any point you are trying make as well.
We all do not have anything official....we are all commentating on our on experiences.
Do you have a 4G phone?
But you where the one spitting out facts that it only affects a small percentage. You even gave it a number. You said it only affects 1%. Why make claims that are very possibly completely inaccurate, and could be a much higher percentage ? Maybe even affecting *most* customers. That's why I had to call you on your claim.
No, I do not have an iPhone 4. I have an iPhone 3GS. I was going to wait in line the 1st day to get an iPhone 4, but when the issue started appearing Wed night, I decided to wait. Late last week, I went to the Apple store and tested several different iPhone 4's. I was able to duplicate the issue on every one of them. And I have seen very compelling videos of the issue being duplicated. And read articles from reputable authors reporting the issue. And I'm very disappointed in Apple's response to this issue so far. So, I'm in a holding pattern to see if this issue gets resolved soon.
I'm not a lawyer; but this could be a case of false advertizing. I paid a penalty to leave Verizon (early temination) to switch to what a rational person would presume to be a fully functional cell phone. I now have a cell phone that does not function as a cell phone at my place of business - whereas my Verizon phone functioned perfectly.
Thus, my damages not only include missed phone and missed business opportunties, but my early termination fees (which I cannot recover) from Verizon. So, simply giving me my money back still leaves me financially punished. Hence, class action lawsuit.
Nah, you're screwed. Apple makes no promise on network availability. Neither does ATT or Verizon for that matter. Read the toilet paper they call a contract and see. You are not eligible to get any damages for what you are claiming. You can only get out of your contract with AT&T and return your phone. You will be liable for the phone calls you have made and you wont be getting back your activation fee.
They didn't even kiss you first. Welcome to OZ.
Apple is claiming there is no reception issue. That is why this issue is escalating. Why would Apple fix something they claim is not broken ?
Well Steve also said in an email to "stay tuned" and Mossberg said that Apple told him it would be fixed in a software update. To be honest, I don't know if a software update will fix it and I remain skeptical. I'm not willing to act like I know what the problem is and to assume I know more than Apple does about their phone.
So we should all shut up - until YOUR contract ends? You must think pretty highly of yourself.
Me, I'm out a early termination fee from Verizon - because I believed the iPhone G4 would actually function as a cell phone. If I get my money back from Apple for the G4, I'm still out the money I paid to Verizon to leave - under the assumption that Apple could deliver a G4 phone that functioned at least as well as thier earlier products.
Meanwhile, I have a cell phone that does not function at my place of work. Verizon managed to service this area without issue. This is NOT a desolate area - yet my Apple phone cannot maintain connectivity with the AT&T towers.
It's comments like these I'm referring to. The issue you are describing seems to be a problem with AT&T, not Apple. The iPhone 4 actually has better reception from all reviews and secondhand stories. The issue seems to be a dropping signal when held in a certain way (blocking the antenna).
If you think it is the iPhone:
1. Why can't you wait two weeks in which there will be a software update?
2. Did you buy a bumper?
3.If the bumper doesn't work, and from all reports/videos it does, then you can always return it. I can't help you with the early termination fee but it's the price you pay when you're an early adopter without reading any reviews.