You said it. What did Jobs expect? This is parmount to telling a rape victim that if she wasn't a trashy slut, this wouldn't have happened.
When he has the audacity to tell his customers that they are holding the phone wrong - he's BEGGING for someone to stuff that phone down his throat (or up his backside). And lawyers are the proper tool for doing this.
Instead of Steve-o simply stating "Apple is aware of this, and we are addressing this - we'll get back to you shortly", Stevie was beyond arrogant. If I was a lawyer, my first line of offense would be Job's email response.
yes, unless i haven't been keeping up with current laws regarding "e"-communitcations, i don't believe that emails are admissable as evidence, since tracking a source to email is quite difficult to associate to a single user.
for the life of me i just can't reproduce this infamous reception problem on my iPhone 4.... what amd I missing?
oh yeh, a chance to make a few bucks off of Apple from the class action law-suit!
Assuming you have the new iPhone and are not a fanboi - let's show you exactly how to replicate this problem.
First, if you are in an area with a strong signal - you likely will NOT be able to replicate the issue.
Travel to an area with 1-3 bars when the iPhone is sitting on a chair, or is in a case. Now, take the iPhone out of the case, and try to make a phone call. If you are in an area with poor coverage (shouldn't be too difficult to find in the USA - we are talking about AT&T); chances are very good that you will either drop down to 1 bar, or lose AT&T entirely.
I work in a building in an area that has poor coverage, and without the iPhone case; my phone is practically useless as a phone.
A few people I work with are already joining in on the lawsuit.
If they won the lawsuit, and every iPhone owner could get a new iPhone according to a new Apple press release, some people around here will still be living in denial. I can just picture the comments:
"Just 'cause they gave everyone a new phone doesn't make it a real issue; it's just a reflection of how bad the legal system in the US is."
Name one phone that can have its communications disabled with a single finger touch to the external case? Other than the iPhone 4 that is!
Doesn't disable mine. I can reduce the indicated signal strength. Can't disable it. Have had fewer dropped calls (one in five days) than with my 3GS. Signal strength is routinely higher than it was on the previous phone, location-for-location, compared to the 3GS. Upload and download speeds blow away the 3GS. I've read many reports of people being able to reduce indicated signal strength, and a much smaller number of reports of people who can induce a dropped call but even then only in a small geographic area.
Your hyperbole makes your post pointless.
You might have said--more honestly--that some people are having some problems. That it's a problem that when it occurs, occurs in what's a pretty common grip. It needs to be fixed for them. And you might have said Steve's response of, "you're holding it wrong," is sort of insulting or at least embarrassing, as much as i like the man and his inclination to respond pithily to the company's customers.
btw, I wrote the law firm and told them that although i can replicate the drop in signal strength, i am unable to induce a dropped call, and get better reception (more bars, fewer dropped calls) than with my former phone. Maybe if a lot of people (on both sides of the issue) reported their results to the company--NOT just those with problems--the lawyers would have to acknowledge that in their court proceedings.
I have Iphone 4 and I live in Fremont , CA . I do not have any issues with reception or dropping calls or proximity sensor .. It is my third Iphone and best of all three.. Battery has improved and while i use GPS for Bike ride and turn by turn direction, Battery last much longer than before... I tried with my friends at work to hold it every which way to have drop bars and we were not successful ... May be we are not doing it right... .
One thing I LIKE to point out is , if everyone likes to be the first , you have to be ready to be first for good and bad ...Otherwise wait till bugs are fixed and by then plenty are available and I have moved on to buy the next upgrade...
yes, unless i haven't been keeping up with current laws regarding "e"-communitcations, i don't believe that emails are admissable as evidence, since tracking a source to email is quite difficult to associate to a single user.
Apple's official stance was "There is NO problem with the iPhone G4". For Apple to admit a problem, will mean that they will be fiscally responsible for several million dollars worth of faulty equipment. If Apple continues to follow the "No problem with the iPhone tract"; then the only way to force them to the table to address the issue, is legal means.
The smart response would be to neither confirm, nor deny an issue. Simply state that "Apple is looking into this". Then use this delay time to produce a iOS patch that corrects the issue (plus the issue of the face detection not working, such that you can easily turn on the speakerphone, mute function or hang up on your call if the phone touches your cheek during a call).
Very few products are launched without a single errata that is later corrected with an update.
I agree that we need more time to see how this all plays out.
If this is a design flaw then ALL 4G phones would have the same signal loss issue.
That is not happening...not all 4Gs have the signal loss. It is avery small percentage.
Do all the 4Gs have the same software installed? If so then how will a software update fix the issue?
Does apple use differnt manufacturers to make the phone? lets say they have 3 differnt companies making the phone. Maybe one of them had a production problem. That might explain why some have the issue while other do not.....
I am waiting to get mine replaced. Hopefully the new one won't have the same issue.
How do you know this issue only affects a very small percentage ? And how do you all iPhone 4's are not affected ? It could just depend on the user's location (frequency band used/ signal strength, etc). There are a lot of assumptions on your part.
The problem I see is that ANY type of class action usually results in the customer getting some "crappy" sort of resolution while the lawyer gets millions. I agree that Apple does need to do something to resolve this issue, but I don't think a lawyer would help us Apple users. Unless, there was a user who was a lawyer, who just wanted the problem fixed and not make a ton of money on suing Apple. All a class action would do in the end for the users is get them a rubber bumper. I think we would like the problem fixed, not band-aided while a law firm that could give 2 sh@ts about us makes a ton of money off our issues.
Assuming you have the new iPhone and are not a fanboi - let's show you exactly how to replicate this problem.
First, if you are in an area with a strong signal - you likely will NOT be able to replicate the issue.
Travel to an area with 1-3 bars when the iPhone is sitting on a chair, or is in a case. Now, take the iPhone out of the case, and try to make a phone call. If you are in an area with poor coverage (shouldn't be too difficult to find in the USA - we are talking about AT&T); chances are very good that you will either drop down to 1 bar, or lose AT&T entirely.
I work in a building in an area that has poor coverage, and without the iPhone case; my phone is practically useless as a phone.
Your asking to be called a troll, I hope you know. And you don't need to have between 1-3 bars. I've seen it happen with 5 bars. The issue may be dependent on a several complex factors, all stemming from a bad design conception. Some people claim the issue is fixable with software, and that the software to fix this is due out yesterday or today. The reality is: Apple didn't even claim that. Apple even said it was a non issue. We've yet to see Apple actually admit there's a problem with the phone.
i said it before and i'll say it again. I'm from Argentina, i had the iphone edge, and now my 3G for more than a year (i'm waiting for the 4). I Never, i repeat it, Never had a problem with my iphones, not a dropped call, always ok. The best thing is that we are a "third world" country, so our cell networks are supposed to be really crappy (compared to the US ones). My point with all this is: stop complaining about the iphone or apple and all those reception issues or dropped calls, the problem is AT&T, not the phone. My friends have iphones too and never heard them saying something about that.
I'm sure that the left hand reception problem will be fixed soon with a firmware update, but apple doesn't have all the fault.
If they won the lawsuit, and every iPhone owner could get a new iPhone according to a new Apple press release, some people around here will still be living in denial. I can just picture the comments:
"Just 'cause they gave everyone a new phone doesn't make it a real issue; it's just a reflection of how bad the legal system in the US is."
I doubt that if they won every iPhone user would get a new phone. More likely a free rubber bumper. My issue is that it's too premature to talk about a class action, and I think any type of class action should be taken on by Apple users who are lawyers and not someone looking to cash in on somebody else's issues with a product.
The problem I see is that ANY type of class action usually results in the customer getting some "crappy" sort of resolution while the lawyer gets millions. I agree that Apple does need to do something to resolve this issue, but I don't think a lawyer would help us Apple users. Unless, there was a user who was a lawyer, who just wanted the problem fixed and not make a ton of money on suing Apple. All a class action would do in the end for the users is get them a rubber bumper. I think we would like the problem fixed, not band-aided while a law firm that could give 2 sh@ts about us makes a ton of money off our issues.
I don't see users only getting a rubber bumper, 'cause Apple would be forced to answer some tough questions. I don't love lawyers or class action suits, but as of now Apple don't feel obliged to treat is users with respect by giving them a decent response. Apple may be selling a lot of iPhones now, but as word spreads I see this issue affecting their sales compared to if they didn't have the issue. It personally put me off buying the phone, and I know of others it has put off too. Theses are people who like the iPhone, like myself, though if you were to listen to some people around here you'd think I hated the iPhone as a device. This is FUD. No, Apple isn't doomed, but if you think this won't affect Apple in any way you've (not you personally) your head in the clouds.
The problem I see is that ANY type of class action usually results in the customer getting some "crappy" sort of resolution while the lawyer gets millions. I agree that Apple does need to do something to resolve this issue, but I don't think a lawyer would help us Apple users. Unless, there was a user who was a lawyer, who just wanted the problem fixed and not make a ton of money on suing Apple. All a class action would do in the end for the users is get them a rubber bumper. I think we would like the problem fixed, not band-aided while a law firm that could give 2 sh@ts about us makes a ton of money off our issues.
I disagree. With such a high profile company, a high profile product, and a high profile issue, threating a lawsuit and exposing this issue further may help force the hand of Apple to fix the issue before it ever gets close to going to court. But if people let this major issue slide, Apple might just sweep this under the carpet.
Why would it suck for Ireland? He already told us he hasn't bought the new iPhone 4.
As a matter of fact, neither do you. As you have said recently, you are on Verison and you are boycotting AT&T.
Actually I am stuck with my 3g for a few more weeks, then I will be a free agent. And while it may be off topic, may I say that updating to iOS4 has made my 3G as useless in every way as it is for making phone calls. An inglorious end to my first iPhone experience.
I went to the Apple store in Wayne NJ sunday and beheld the new iPhone 4. I compared the screen to mine and it was quite a blow away experience. It is with great regret that I cannot continue with an iPhone in my family of Mac products. I have everything Apple makes in my home and love the integration and all that.
As tempted as I might be to stick it out and hope for an ATT miracle by the end of summer (as Jobs hinted at during D8) reading about all these reception issues you all are having tells me what I have to do. Stay away from the iPhone.
I had better get off before Ireland finds out I am still babbling. I don't want to get in anymore trouble than I already am.
Apple is doomed, let's kill flash, spot on, totally agree.
i said it before and i'll say it again. I'm from Argentina, i had the iphone edge, and now my 3G for more than a year (i'm waiting for the 4). I Never, i repeat it, Never had a problem with my iphones, not a dropped call, always ok. The best thing is that we are a "third world" country, so our cell networks are supposed to be really crappy (compared to the US ones). My point with all this is: stop complaining about the iphone or apple and all those reception issues or dropped calls, the problem is AT&T, not the phone.
That's not the issue with the iPhone 4. That's not the issue with the iPhone 4.
Most of the people complaining about the iPhone 4 had great reception on their older iPhones. The issue is the hardware, and the fact that your hand touches the antennae. And it affects every country who's gotten the iPhone 4. You talking about bad coverage, that's not the issue here.
Apple's official stance was "There is NO problem with the iPhone G4". For Apple to admit a problem, will mean that they will be fiscally responsible for several million dollars worth of faulty equipment. If Apple continues to follow the "No problem with the iPhone tract"; then the only way to force them to the table to address the issue, is legal means.
The smart response would be to neither confirm, nor deny an issue. Simply state that "Apple is looking into this".
This is why I believe Steve's off-the-cuff emails will be the source of a growing rift between himself and the BoD, again.
How do you know this issue only affects a very small percentage ? And how do you all iPhone 4's are not affected ? It could just depend on the user's location (frequency band used/ signal strength, etc). There are a lot of assumptions on your part.
There is a lot that I don't know about this issue. I know that I can reproduce the signal loss in ANY location with my new phone. I also know that while talking to the Apple store manager on saturday I could show him the exact issue and reproduce it for him. I know for a fact that 4 other 4G phone owners that were in the store could NOT produce the same error. I know for a fact that the only Apple representative I talked to was the store manager. His assesment was about 1% of the 4G owers were having this issue. So not everyone is having this issue. We need more data and time to really see what the issue is.
Also his representation was not official. It was just his opinion based on what he saw in his store.
I can only base my assumptions on my experiences.
I upgraded from a 3GS that had no issues. I could hold it anyway I wanted and make calls without getting dropped. I had no problem with AT&T service before my new 4G phone.
Comments
You said it. What did Jobs expect? This is parmount to telling a rape victim that if she wasn't a trashy slut, this wouldn't have happened.
When he has the audacity to tell his customers that they are holding the phone wrong - he's BEGGING for someone to stuff that phone down his throat (or up his backside). And lawyers are the proper tool for doing this.
Instead of Steve-o simply stating "Apple is aware of this, and we are addressing this - we'll get back to you shortly", Stevie was beyond arrogant. If I was a lawyer, my first line of offense would be Job's email response.
yes, unless i haven't been keeping up with current laws regarding "e"-communitcations, i don't believe that emails are admissable as evidence, since tracking a source to email is quite difficult to associate to a single user.
for the life of me i just can't reproduce this infamous reception problem on my iPhone 4.... what amd I missing?
oh yeh, a chance to make a few bucks off of Apple from the class action law-suit!
Assuming you have the new iPhone and are not a fanboi - let's show you exactly how to replicate this problem.
First, if you are in an area with a strong signal - you likely will NOT be able to replicate the issue.
Travel to an area with 1-3 bars when the iPhone is sitting on a chair, or is in a case. Now, take the iPhone out of the case, and try to make a phone call. If you are in an area with poor coverage (shouldn't be too difficult to find in the USA - we are talking about AT&T); chances are very good that you will either drop down to 1 bar, or lose AT&T entirely.
I work in a building in an area that has poor coverage, and without the iPhone case; my phone is practically useless as a phone.
A few people I work with are already joining in on the lawsuit.
If they won the lawsuit, and every iPhone owner could get a new iPhone according to a new Apple press release, some people around here will still be living in denial. I can just picture the comments:
"Just 'cause they gave everyone a new phone doesn't make it a real issue; it's just a reflection of how bad the legal system in the US is."
Name one phone that can have its communications disabled with a single finger touch to the external case? Other than the iPhone 4 that is!
Doesn't disable mine. I can reduce the indicated signal strength. Can't disable it. Have had fewer dropped calls (one in five days) than with my 3GS. Signal strength is routinely higher than it was on the previous phone, location-for-location, compared to the 3GS. Upload and download speeds blow away the 3GS. I've read many reports of people being able to reduce indicated signal strength, and a much smaller number of reports of people who can induce a dropped call but even then only in a small geographic area.
Your hyperbole makes your post pointless.
You might have said--more honestly--that some people are having some problems. That it's a problem that when it occurs, occurs in what's a pretty common grip. It needs to be fixed for them. And you might have said Steve's response of, "you're holding it wrong," is sort of insulting or at least embarrassing, as much as i like the man and his inclination to respond pithily to the company's customers.
btw, I wrote the law firm and told them that although i can replicate the drop in signal strength, i am unable to induce a dropped call, and get better reception (more bars, fewer dropped calls) than with my former phone. Maybe if a lot of people (on both sides of the issue) reported their results to the company--NOT just those with problems--the lawyers would have to acknowledge that in their court proceedings.
One thing I LIKE to point out is , if everyone likes to be the first , you have to be ready to be first for good and bad ...Otherwise wait till bugs are fixed and by then plenty are available and I have moved on to buy the next upgrade...
yes, unless i haven't been keeping up with current laws regarding "e"-communitcations, i don't believe that emails are admissable as evidence, since tracking a source to email is quite difficult to associate to a single user.
Apple's official stance was "There is NO problem with the iPhone G4". For Apple to admit a problem, will mean that they will be fiscally responsible for several million dollars worth of faulty equipment. If Apple continues to follow the "No problem with the iPhone tract"; then the only way to force them to the table to address the issue, is legal means.
The smart response would be to neither confirm, nor deny an issue. Simply state that "Apple is looking into this". Then use this delay time to produce a iOS patch that corrects the issue (plus the issue of the face detection not working, such that you can easily turn on the speakerphone, mute function or hang up on your call if the phone touches your cheek during a call).
Very few products are launched without a single errata that is later corrected with an update.
I agree that we need more time to see how this all plays out.
If this is a design flaw then ALL 4G phones would have the same signal loss issue.
That is not happening...not all 4Gs have the signal loss. It is avery small percentage.
Do all the 4Gs have the same software installed? If so then how will a software update fix the issue?
Does apple use differnt manufacturers to make the phone? lets say they have 3 differnt companies making the phone. Maybe one of them had a production problem. That might explain why some have the issue while other do not.....
I am waiting to get mine replaced. Hopefully the new one won't have the same issue.
How do you know this issue only affects a very small percentage ? And how do you all iPhone 4's are not affected ? It could just depend on the user's location (frequency band used/ signal strength, etc). There are a lot of assumptions on your part.
Assuming you have the new iPhone and are not a fanboi - let's show you exactly how to replicate this problem.
First, if you are in an area with a strong signal - you likely will NOT be able to replicate the issue.
Travel to an area with 1-3 bars when the iPhone is sitting on a chair, or is in a case. Now, take the iPhone out of the case, and try to make a phone call. If you are in an area with poor coverage (shouldn't be too difficult to find in the USA - we are talking about AT&T); chances are very good that you will either drop down to 1 bar, or lose AT&T entirely.
I work in a building in an area that has poor coverage, and without the iPhone case; my phone is practically useless as a phone.
Your asking to be called a troll, I hope you know. And you don't need to have between 1-3 bars. I've seen it happen with 5 bars. The issue may be dependent on a several complex factors, all stemming from a bad design conception. Some people claim the issue is fixable with software, and that the software to fix this is due out yesterday or today. The reality is: Apple didn't even claim that. Apple even said it was a non issue. We've yet to see Apple actually admit there's a problem with the phone.
I'm sure that the left hand reception problem will be fixed soon with a firmware update, but apple doesn't have all the fault.
:-)
If they won the lawsuit, and every iPhone owner could get a new iPhone according to a new Apple press release, some people around here will still be living in denial. I can just picture the comments:
"Just 'cause they gave everyone a new phone doesn't make it a real issue; it's just a reflection of how bad the legal system in the US is."
I doubt that if they won every iPhone user would get a new phone. More likely a free rubber bumper. My issue is that it's too premature to talk about a class action, and I think any type of class action should be taken on by Apple users who are lawyers and not someone looking to cash in on somebody else's issues with a product.
It's not similar, to you. But the analogy makes sense.
I'll just have to assume that you have descended into madness.
The problem I see is that ANY type of class action usually results in the customer getting some "crappy" sort of resolution while the lawyer gets millions. I agree that Apple does need to do something to resolve this issue, but I don't think a lawyer would help us Apple users. Unless, there was a user who was a lawyer, who just wanted the problem fixed and not make a ton of money on suing Apple. All a class action would do in the end for the users is get them a rubber bumper. I think we would like the problem fixed, not band-aided while a law firm that could give 2 sh@ts about us makes a ton of money off our issues.
I don't see users only getting a rubber bumper, 'cause Apple would be forced to answer some tough questions. I don't love lawyers or class action suits, but as of now Apple don't feel obliged to treat is users with respect by giving them a decent response. Apple may be selling a lot of iPhones now, but as word spreads I see this issue affecting their sales compared to if they didn't have the issue. It personally put me off buying the phone, and I know of others it has put off too. Theses are people who like the iPhone, like myself, though if you were to listen to some people around here you'd think I hated the iPhone as a device. This is FUD. No, Apple isn't doomed, but if you think this won't affect Apple in any way you've (not you personally) your head in the clouds.
The problem I see is that ANY type of class action usually results in the customer getting some "crappy" sort of resolution while the lawyer gets millions. I agree that Apple does need to do something to resolve this issue, but I don't think a lawyer would help us Apple users. Unless, there was a user who was a lawyer, who just wanted the problem fixed and not make a ton of money on suing Apple. All a class action would do in the end for the users is get them a rubber bumper. I think we would like the problem fixed, not band-aided while a law firm that could give 2 sh@ts about us makes a ton of money off our issues.
I disagree. With such a high profile company, a high profile product, and a high profile issue, threating a lawsuit and exposing this issue further may help force the hand of Apple to fix the issue before it ever gets close to going to court. But if people let this major issue slide, Apple might just sweep this under the carpet.
I'll just have to assume that you have descended into madness.
You can assume what you like.
Why would it suck for Ireland? He already told us he hasn't bought the new iPhone 4.
As a matter of fact, neither do you. As you have said recently, you are on Verison and you are boycotting AT&T.
Actually I am stuck with my 3g for a few more weeks, then I will be a free agent. And while it may be off topic, may I say that updating to iOS4 has made my 3G as useless in every way as it is for making phone calls. An inglorious end to my first iPhone experience.
I went to the Apple store in Wayne NJ sunday and beheld the new iPhone 4. I compared the screen to mine and it was quite a blow away experience. It is with great regret that I cannot continue with an iPhone in my family of Mac products. I have everything Apple makes in my home and love the integration and all that.
As tempted as I might be to stick it out and hope for an ATT miracle by the end of summer (as Jobs hinted at during D8) reading about all these reception issues you all are having tells me what I have to do. Stay away from the iPhone.
I had better get off before Ireland finds out I am still babbling. I don't want to get in anymore trouble than I already am.
Apple is doomed, let's kill flash, spot on, totally agree.
I'll just have to assume that you have descended into madness.
Yeah, come on Ireland. I like you, but you're kind of stepping in it here. Read between the lines and don't worry about being right on this one.
i said it before and i'll say it again. I'm from Argentina, i had the iphone edge, and now my 3G for more than a year (i'm waiting for the 4). I Never, i repeat it, Never had a problem with my iphones, not a dropped call, always ok. The best thing is that we are a "third world" country, so our cell networks are supposed to be really crappy (compared to the US ones). My point with all this is: stop complaining about the iphone or apple and all those reception issues or dropped calls, the problem is AT&T, not the phone.
That's not the issue with the iPhone 4. That's not the issue with the iPhone 4.
Most of the people complaining about the iPhone 4 had great reception on their older iPhones. The issue is the hardware, and the fact that your hand touches the antennae. And it affects every country who's gotten the iPhone 4. You talking about bad coverage, that's not the issue here.
Apple's official stance was "There is NO problem with the iPhone G4". For Apple to admit a problem, will mean that they will be fiscally responsible for several million dollars worth of faulty equipment. If Apple continues to follow the "No problem with the iPhone tract"; then the only way to force them to the table to address the issue, is legal means.
The smart response would be to neither confirm, nor deny an issue. Simply state that "Apple is looking into this".
This is why I believe Steve's off-the-cuff emails will be the source of a growing rift between himself and the BoD, again.
How do you know this issue only affects a very small percentage ? And how do you all iPhone 4's are not affected ? It could just depend on the user's location (frequency band used/ signal strength, etc). There are a lot of assumptions on your part.
There is a lot that I don't know about this issue. I know that I can reproduce the signal loss in ANY location with my new phone. I also know that while talking to the Apple store manager on saturday I could show him the exact issue and reproduce it for him. I know for a fact that 4 other 4G phone owners that were in the store could NOT produce the same error. I know for a fact that the only Apple representative I talked to was the store manager. His assesment was about 1% of the 4G owers were having this issue. So not everyone is having this issue. We need more data and time to really see what the issue is.
Also his representation was not official. It was just his opinion based on what he saw in his store.
I can only base my assumptions on my experiences.
I upgraded from a 3GS that had no issues. I could hold it anyway I wanted and make calls without getting dropped. I had no problem with AT&T service before my new 4G phone.
So what are your experiences with your 4G?