During that week the company's chairman and CEO has denied in writing that there is a problem, and the company has sent written instructions to its store employees describing specifically how they should deny there is a problem when faced with customer complaints.
What exactly do you imagine would change, and how many weeks would you give it?
I agree, however, it hasn't been proved that the "leaked" letter to Apple Store employees as acurate, but i'll give it the benefit of the doubt.
On how much time, IMO, I think the sooner the better, if they win the Class-action case, i would demand either a quick re-issue with the product fix or a recall. Not this public marketing crap that's in the file. that's just silly.
I look forward to the giant sticker on the iPhone 4 noting that left-handed people are probably under the influence of witchcraft and should be beat into being right-handed or burned at the stake.
we all covered this in a previous post from AI, but for those who missed out...
Right handed people hold the phone with their Left hand and use their Right hand to point.
Left handed people hold the phone in their Right hand and use their left hand to point. Now, this is IMO but i've heard many other's on this forum agree with this logic.
Yes, they've definitely made some major PR blunders, they really shouldn't have said anything until they were certain of what was going on. But, despite the rage and anger, and feelings of being duped, you might consider that, in all honesty, at the time he sent that private email, Jobs may have thought there were no serious issues. (And I don't consider the signal loss from simply holding the phone, as opposed to bridging the seam, to be a serious issue as most reports indicate that the call quality is fine under those conditions.)
Exactly. The thing about Steve's emails is that they are too precise to derive anything very deep beyond what he is thinking about at that moment. It's a vague snapshot and not a complete portrait. We don't know the depth of Steve's knowledge. Heck, unless he happens to be a GSM RF engineer, he could be making any number of assumptions absent of any advanced testing. Despite the images that we all portray about Steve being everything Apple, he is only one human component that isn't going to be exposing himself by detailing things in a private email conversation.
Yes, they've definitely made some major PR blunders, they really shouldn't have said anything until they were certain of what was going on. But, despite the rage and anger, and feelings of being duped, you might consider that, in all honesty, at the time he sent that private email, Jobs may have thought there were no serious issues. (And I don't consider the signal loss from simply holding the phone, as opposed to bridging the seam, to be a serious issue as most reports indicate that the call quality is fine under those conditions.)
All true, but it's been a long week since then and he still has not come out and said anything. How long do we, the people who paid his company a combined hundreds of millions of $ have to wait?
... and get blind of all that money they can get with a 190$ phone being sold by the price of 700$!!!
Just a minor correction -
Thats $190(dollar sign in front please) for parts, ADD another $190 minimum for Design, Engineering, marketing, labor of assembly, product support, etc etc.
Then there is profit. Off of profit SUBTRACT, taxes fees R&D and corperate overhead.
In the end, in terms of true profit... perhaps 50 bucks... maybe... that depends on sales.
But back to the topic, Apple needs to address this issue in some manner, it doesn't seem to be going away(rightly or wrongly)
I think actually they did. They were so concerned with secrecy they probably had them all in those special cases that looked like the 3GS. Someone apparently didn't think to test the product in it's original form as this issue should have been caught very early on in the antennae development.
All true, but it's been a long week since then and he still has not come out and said anything. How long do we, the people who paid his company a combined hundreds of millions of $ have to wait?
A long week. A week is 7 days, not very long at all. Very likely not long enough to determine the issue. I don't think they should make announcements about things they don't yet understand. I do think that if you are effected by the seam bridging problem, and not every iP4 is, you should return it. Again, the best way to get their attention is for everyone with the problem to return the phone.
So I'm guessing you've got an iPhone 4 yourself and that you're able to reproduce this antenna issue? I mean, there can't be any other reason you're coming in here and asserting your opinion with such certainty?
Oh what, you mean you've never put your hands on an iPhone 4 and you're just parroting what every naysayer has to say on this issue?
And I supposed you are going to try and tell us that you have NEVER expressed an opinion about something you did not own? Give us a break and get off your high horse.
As a potential buyer, and someone who had read the various blog and technical analysis articles on the problem, I have just as much right to participate in this discussion and express an opinion as anyone who has purchased an iPhone 4. It's called being an educated consumer, and perhaps the people who have purchased an iPhone 4 and later complained about it should try THAT before their next purchase.
A long week. A week is 7 days, not very long at all. Very likely not long enough to determine the issue. I don't think they should make announcements about things they don't yet understand. I do think that if you are effected by the seam bridging problem, and not every iP4 is, you should return it. Again, the best way to get their attention is for everyone with the problem to return the phone.
Right on. Making statements about product issues is only a good idea when you can control what they are and how you can deal with them. Especially now. Apple is not going to expose themselves to any more liability then they have to and the reality is, not everything can be done in such a limited time frame.
Just like with the antenna and other issues with any CE, some will have problems, but overall the iPhone 4 is much improved over the previous iPhones and it pushes itself farther ahead of its competitors in overall battery efficiency despite the opprobrium of a poor battery.
my company purchased 50 of the new iPhone 4's and ALL have the same reception issue.
the 50 were ordered in 2 batches a day apart and shipped to 5 different regions in the US all have issues as stated in this article...
Yes you can expect a few corporate law suites over this...
my company has well over 500 other iPhone's from ver 3 and 3gs that work without issue.
if you dont think this is a real issue than have your company go buy 50 iPhone 4's and see how you fare on a return deal...
if you think its hard to return 1 iPhone 4 back to ATT or Apple try 50!
i am refering to the bare hand on the antenna issue all 50/50 loose signal and drop calls, we have over 1500 documented calls dropped by iPhone4 phones.
Stop being silly. Unless you know for sure that Motorola or HTC or Nokia tests theirs without cases/bumpers. (And for sure that Apple did not, throughout the testing process).
Except those other devices didn't have their antennas on the outside of the phone. So in effect, they were in cases...the shell of the phone itself. Apple's is the only phone that allows direct contact with the antenna, which appears to be the root of the problem.
Hey, everyone who bought an iPhone 4, you still have 24 days to return it for a FULL REFUND! There is no need to sue Apple. Just get your money back and get a life.
This is not about right and wrong, stop using common sense. It's about punishment via lawsuit. Somebody wants to get rich at somebody else's expense. Apple has been successful lately, so they must be taken down! Or at least made to share their wealth with me.
You are correct...I could just use a case on the phone. But that is not how the phone was advertised. That is not how it was demonstrated in Steve Jobs keynote presentation. That is not how he used the phone. It was not advertised that you will have to spend another $30 for a case to get full functionality of the phone. They should not blame the consumer of their products for hold the phone wrong.
Apple could have just attached the bumper permanently to the phone, and added $30 to the price, or better yet just included it for free. The problem with this is that Apple markets this as the first smart phone to have an external antenna structure. Sorry to rain on anyone's parade, but if the phone needs to have a case to function properly, then this does not constitute an external antenna.
This is not to understand for Europeans, really you Americans are real mad, you funny silly crazy people, is money all there is in your heads...? Just get a bumper for the iPhone or, indeed, hold it in another way!
Geez, Americans and their lawsuits!
On the other hand we take regular showers and brush our teeth unlike most europeans. I call that a win.
Thats $190(dollar sign in front please) for parts, ADD another $190 minimum for Design, Engineering, marketing, labor of assembly, product support, etc etc.
Then there is profit. Off of profit SUBTRACT, taxes fees R&D and corperate overhead.
In the end, in terms of true profit... perhaps 50 bucks... maybe... that depends on sales.
But back to the topic, Apple needs to address this issue in some manner, it doesn't seem to be going away(rightly or wrongly)
I would think, given how easy it is to backup your iPhone and restore to another iPhone, that they will re-design the metal casing. They will either need to cover it with something or coat it. This will be a tough one for Apple as the brushed metal has long been a cornerstone of their products.
If Apple tries to push a software update for this issue someone really should give them a good slap in the face. Nothing I hate more than companies pushing software at hardware issues, all it does is basically mask the issue without truly resolving it.
Cheapest option is to give away the bumpers for free, I have the feeling they are going to have to do that, whether by choice or forced to do so by law.
I personally haven't bought the iPhone 4 but if I was one of these early adopters I'd say, "By the way Steve Jobs, saying all phones have this issue is a load of crap!! I thought you were trying to distance your products from others in quality and design. I thought Apple cared about details like this. I thought Apple was about not accepting subpar standards or accepting things for the way they've always been. If we didn't mind the same old issues you have with other hardware we wouldn't pay the premium we do for Apple products! Fix your crap and don't make us pay for it!!"
Yeah, I think I can understand why these guys are ticked, I get a little ticked just pretending to be them.
I think we can all agree that the iPhone has a flaw that when held like a 'phone' it loses it's signal and ability to make calls.
All Apple has to do is admit it is flawed, recall the devices and fix it.
By being in denial and telling people not to hold it like a phone is like something out of a Monty Python sketch.
There are worldwide reports this iPhone 4 is showing the same defect, no matter what carrier.
Apple is being a greedy corporation and refuses to accept the 1000s of people who say that the phone is defective.
I change my handset every 18 months and currently have the iPhone 3Gs - I, and many of my friends, work colleagues have never heard of or owned a phone that loses it signal when held.
I've started looking around at how people hold their phones. Nearly everybody I see holds it with their finger tips. Not jambed down into their palm. So what does "held it like a phone" actually mean?
Comments
During that week the company's chairman and CEO has denied in writing that there is a problem, and the company has sent written instructions to its store employees describing specifically how they should deny there is a problem when faced with customer complaints.
What exactly do you imagine would change, and how many weeks would you give it?
I agree, however, it hasn't been proved that the "leaked" letter to Apple Store employees as acurate, but i'll give it the benefit of the doubt.
On how much time, IMO, I think the sooner the better, if they win the Class-action case, i would demand either a quick re-issue with the product fix or a recall. Not this public marketing crap that's in the file. that's just silly.
No, you are not stuck. You have 30 days to cancel the contract.
I hope you are right...I might have to go that route....
I look forward to the giant sticker on the iPhone 4 noting that left-handed people are probably under the influence of witchcraft and should be beat into being right-handed or burned at the stake.
we all covered this in a previous post from AI, but for those who missed out...
Right handed people hold the phone with their Left hand and use their Right hand to point.
Left handed people hold the phone in their Right hand and use their left hand to point. Now, this is IMO but i've heard many other's on this forum agree with this logic.
Yes, they've definitely made some major PR blunders, they really shouldn't have said anything until they were certain of what was going on. But, despite the rage and anger, and feelings of being duped, you might consider that, in all honesty, at the time he sent that private email, Jobs may have thought there were no serious issues. (And I don't consider the signal loss from simply holding the phone, as opposed to bridging the seam, to be a serious issue as most reports indicate that the call quality is fine under those conditions.)
Exactly. The thing about Steve's emails is that they are too precise to derive anything very deep beyond what he is thinking about at that moment. It's a vague snapshot and not a complete portrait. We don't know the depth of Steve's knowledge. Heck, unless he happens to be a GSM RF engineer, he could be making any number of assumptions absent of any advanced testing. Despite the images that we all portray about Steve being everything Apple, he is only one human component that isn't going to be exposing himself by detailing things in a private email conversation.
Yes, they've definitely made some major PR blunders, they really shouldn't have said anything until they were certain of what was going on. But, despite the rage and anger, and feelings of being duped, you might consider that, in all honesty, at the time he sent that private email, Jobs may have thought there were no serious issues. (And I don't consider the signal loss from simply holding the phone, as opposed to bridging the seam, to be a serious issue as most reports indicate that the call quality is fine under those conditions.)
All true, but it's been a long week since then and he still has not come out and said anything. How long do we, the people who paid his company a combined hundreds of millions of $ have to wait?
... and get blind of all that money they can get with a 190$ phone being sold by the price of 700$!!!
Just a minor correction -
Thats $190(dollar sign in front please) for parts, ADD another $190 minimum for Design, Engineering, marketing, labor of assembly, product support, etc etc.
Then there is profit. Off of profit SUBTRACT, taxes fees R&D and corperate overhead.
In the end, in terms of true profit... perhaps 50 bucks... maybe... that depends on sales.
But back to the topic, Apple needs to address this issue in some manner, it doesn't seem to be going away(rightly or wrongly)
Did they always test the device with a case on?
I think actually they did. They were so concerned with secrecy they probably had them all in those special cases that looked like the 3GS. Someone apparently didn't think to test the product in it's original form as this issue should have been caught very early on in the antennae development.
All true, but it's been a long week since then and he still has not come out and said anything. How long do we, the people who paid his company a combined hundreds of millions of $ have to wait?
A long week. A week is 7 days, not very long at all. Very likely not long enough to determine the issue. I don't think they should make announcements about things they don't yet understand. I do think that if you are effected by the seam bridging problem, and not every iP4 is, you should return it. Again, the best way to get their attention is for everyone with the problem to return the phone.
So I'm guessing you've got an iPhone 4 yourself and that you're able to reproduce this antenna issue? I mean, there can't be any other reason you're coming in here and asserting your opinion with such certainty?
Oh what, you mean you've never put your hands on an iPhone 4 and you're just parroting what every naysayer has to say on this issue?
And I supposed you are going to try and tell us that you have NEVER expressed an opinion about something you did not own? Give us a break and get off your high horse.
As a potential buyer, and someone who had read the various blog and technical analysis articles on the problem, I have just as much right to participate in this discussion and express an opinion as anyone who has purchased an iPhone 4. It's called being an educated consumer, and perhaps the people who have purchased an iPhone 4 and later complained about it should try THAT before their next purchase.
A long week. A week is 7 days, not very long at all. Very likely not long enough to determine the issue. I don't think they should make announcements about things they don't yet understand. I do think that if you are effected by the seam bridging problem, and not every iP4 is, you should return it. Again, the best way to get their attention is for everyone with the problem to return the phone.
Right on. Making statements about product issues is only a good idea when you can control what they are and how you can deal with them. Especially now. Apple is not going to expose themselves to any more liability then they have to and the reality is, not everything can be done in such a limited time frame.
http://discussions.apple.com/thread....83524&tstart=0
http://discussions.apple.com/thread....103&tstart=360
Just like with the antenna and other issues with any CE, some will have problems, but overall the iPhone 4 is much improved over the previous iPhones and it pushes itself farther ahead of its competitors in overall battery efficiency despite the opprobrium of a poor battery.
the 50 were ordered in 2 batches a day apart and shipped to 5 different regions in the US all have issues as stated in this article...
Yes you can expect a few corporate law suites over this...
my company has well over 500 other iPhone's from ver 3 and 3gs that work without issue.
if you dont think this is a real issue than have your company go buy 50 iPhone 4's and see how you fare on a return deal...
if you think its hard to return 1 iPhone 4 back to ATT or Apple try 50!
i am refering to the bare hand on the antenna issue all 50/50 loose signal and drop calls, we have over 1500 documented calls dropped by iPhone4 phones.
Stop being silly. Unless you know for sure that Motorola or HTC or Nokia tests theirs without cases/bumpers. (And for sure that Apple did not, throughout the testing process).
Except those other devices didn't have their antennas on the outside of the phone. So in effect, they were in cases...the shell of the phone itself. Apple's is the only phone that allows direct contact with the antenna, which appears to be the root of the problem.
Hey, everyone who bought an iPhone 4, you still have 24 days to return it for a FULL REFUND! There is no need to sue Apple. Just get your money back and get a life.
This is not about right and wrong, stop using common sense. It's about punishment via lawsuit. Somebody wants to get rich at somebody else's expense. Apple has been successful lately, so they must be taken down! Or at least made to share their wealth with me.
You are correct...I could just use a case on the phone. But that is not how the phone was advertised. That is not how it was demonstrated in Steve Jobs keynote presentation. That is not how he used the phone. It was not advertised that you will have to spend another $30 for a case to get full functionality of the phone. They should not blame the consumer of their products for hold the phone wrong.
Apple could have just attached the bumper permanently to the phone, and added $30 to the price, or better yet just included it for free. The problem with this is that Apple markets this as the first smart phone to have an external antenna structure. Sorry to rain on anyone's parade, but if the phone needs to have a case to function properly, then this does not constitute an external antenna.
Steve Jobs to Angry iPhone 4 User: "Relax, it's just a phone."
Did you read the article? It quotes consumers who purchased the iPhone 4 will be required to pay a 10% restocking fee; upon returning the device.
Of course he didn't read 'the article'...
it was yet another nonsensical 'knee jerk' response from someone bent on defending all things Apple regardless of facts etc.
This is not to understand for Europeans, really you Americans are real mad, you funny silly crazy people, is money all there is in your heads...? Just get a bumper for the iPhone or, indeed, hold it in another way!
Geez, Americans and their lawsuits!
On the other hand we take regular showers and brush our teeth unlike most europeans. I call that a win.
Just a minor correction -
Thats $190(dollar sign in front please) for parts, ADD another $190 minimum for Design, Engineering, marketing, labor of assembly, product support, etc etc.
Then there is profit. Off of profit SUBTRACT, taxes fees R&D and corperate overhead.
In the end, in terms of true profit... perhaps 50 bucks... maybe... that depends on sales.
But back to the topic, Apple needs to address this issue in some manner, it doesn't seem to be going away(rightly or wrongly)
I would think, given how easy it is to backup your iPhone and restore to another iPhone, that they will re-design the metal casing. They will either need to cover it with something or coat it. This will be a tough one for Apple as the brushed metal has long been a cornerstone of their products.
If Apple tries to push a software update for this issue someone really should give them a good slap in the face. Nothing I hate more than companies pushing software at hardware issues, all it does is basically mask the issue without truly resolving it.
Cheapest option is to give away the bumpers for free, I have the feeling they are going to have to do that, whether by choice or forced to do so by law.
I personally haven't bought the iPhone 4 but if I was one of these early adopters I'd say, "By the way Steve Jobs, saying all phones have this issue is a load of crap!! I thought you were trying to distance your products from others in quality and design. I thought Apple cared about details like this. I thought Apple was about not accepting subpar standards or accepting things for the way they've always been. If we didn't mind the same old issues you have with other hardware we wouldn't pay the premium we do for Apple products! Fix your crap and don't make us pay for it!!"
Yeah, I think I can understand why these guys are ticked, I get a little ticked just pretending to be them.
I think we can all agree that the iPhone has a flaw that when held like a 'phone' it loses it's signal and ability to make calls.
All Apple has to do is admit it is flawed, recall the devices and fix it.
By being in denial and telling people not to hold it like a phone is like something out of a Monty Python sketch.
There are worldwide reports this iPhone 4 is showing the same defect, no matter what carrier.
Apple is being a greedy corporation and refuses to accept the 1000s of people who say that the phone is defective.
I change my handset every 18 months and currently have the iPhone 3Gs - I, and many of my friends, work colleagues have never heard of or owned a phone that loses it signal when held.
I've started looking around at how people hold their phones. Nearly everybody I see holds it with their finger tips. Not jambed down into their palm. So what does "held it like a phone" actually mean?