Consumer Reports: signal issues not unique iPhone 4, no reason not to buy

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  • Reply 41 of 451
    robin huberrobin huber Posts: 3,983member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Ireland View Post


    One is a shareholder the other wears jeans and a black top going to Apple events. Not joking.



    I didn't know that. Haven't been to MacWorld in many years to witness his clothing choices. If true, it's curious and quite possibly relevant. But whether that is sufficient to prove him to be dishonest and a liar . . . not as sure as you are about it.
  • Reply 42 of 451
    wigginwiggin Posts: 2,265member
    Wow, talk about selective (ie, biased) interpretations...



    "Those grips may also produce sweaty palms from exertion, with the sweat increasing conductivity?and possibly the degree of signal loss."



    That right there says there is a problem with Apple's design of exposing the antennas to direct contact with skin. No other cell phone has this problem because no other phone allowed such direct contact. Or what, I'm never supposed to use my phone when I'm sweating?



    "Using a cover, iPhone 4 performed even better."



    Again, evidence that direct contact is bad. Do covers help other cell phones?



    But in all fairness, AI is doing the CR article an injustice by only quoting one-sided parts of the CR post, which includes:



    "That interference is exacerbated if the phone's antenna is not insulated from human contact. And that seems to be the case with the iPhone's external antenna"



    So CR is, in fact, saying that Apple's decision to expose the antenna was a bad one.



    It's too bad the CR article quoted only the favorable parts of the AnandTech article and didn't state the significant signal strength the iPhone lost when held certain ways. Far more than any other phone which doesn't have to deal with direct contact.



    Is the iPhones increased sensitivity enough to overcome the increased signal loss? This remains to be seen/proven.
  • Reply 43 of 451
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post


    I know Android has issues and am very pleased that you are experiencing no problems and enjoying a wonderful iPhone 4. I wish I was you. I on the other hand am not. I'm not stupid and I certainly don't think because someone says the iPhone 4 has a problem that I should expect to experience it necessarily. I have the problem because time after time since my ip4 activated on the 24th June all I have to do is use my phone in a way that feels comfortable and helps my phone from falling out of my hand, that's the same way I held my iPhone 3G that I'd had since a week after it's launch, to get serious signal loss to the point where I can't load internet pages and get "call failed". I can't even make a call if I don't release my hand from the lower part of the left side of the phone before I make the call more often than not. So kindly respect that this for me is a big issue.



    There was a person who posted a video of an iPhone 4 which completely cut out as soon as the magic spot was touched. On the other hand, this is an anomaly, as is anything near as extreme. For what it's worth I know at least two dozen people who have one now and all are happier with their experience over their previous iPhones, and I've dropped very few calls now in four states.



    I know this does not reflect your own experience, but it does suggest that you may have an iPhone which is actually defective (as must have been the case in that video). I would suggest simply returning it to Apple to get a replacement. The only exception I can imagine is if you're constantly in terrible signal areas where the -10 to -25 dB drop could potentially become a real issue, in which case it may really be bumper or return.
  • Reply 44 of 451
    rmusikantowrmusikantow Posts: 107member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Right_said_fred View Post


    Why would the Dictionary built into mac osx, refer to both 'affect' and 'effect' as BOTH verbs and nouns?



    Effect can sometimes be a verb but is usually a noun.
  • Reply 45 of 451
    robin huberrobin huber Posts: 3,983member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Ireland View Post






    Holey moley, I think this log's been rolled far enough. After all, I'm the aggrieved party and I'm over it. Suggest others get there too.
  • Reply 46 of 451
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jragosta View Post


    Can you show that the signal dropped a significant amount or simply that the bar indicator dropped? Is there any evidence that the iPhone 4 drops more calls than previous phones? So far, the evidence says the opposite.



    I disagree. I've happily owned a 3G for nearly two years without this issue. And that, my friend, is called evidence. And apparently I am not alone.



    As an RF engineer and PROUD, vocal apple-fan, I hate to disagree with most of you. My new iPhone 4 has a reception issue. It's not a display issue, it's a signal strength issue caused by "shorting" the two antennas. Period. Just holding a single finger across that gap I go from 5 bars to Searching... with no cellular connectivity at all - no web pages loading, no e-mail, nothing. That is not a display issue. Try it yourself. We can all drink the koolaid, pretend nothing is wrong, and laud everything else that is great about this phone and Apple, but I'll bet you right now that next spring's iPhone (or January's vPhone) will not have this issue. Will I return mine? No, I'll just hold it differently. But I am dissatisfied with Apple's explanation of this mess. Anyone remember Gateway?
  • Reply 47 of 451
    robin huberrobin huber Posts: 3,983member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by davidcarswell View Post


    oh hell-

    i cant even make my connection drop a bar for phone calls or data even using my tongue to bridge the antennae...

    go figure.



    loving my iphone 4 in san francisco. where i have never had a dropped call(even with my 3g and 3gs)-and SF is notorious for drops-maybe there was a bad batch-but it more and more looking like a user issue. i don't know anyone who has had a problem-8 different people i know personally have increased reception.



    -david



    hope all your problems iron out!

    good luck.





    Be prepared to duck. Shoes headed your way.
  • Reply 48 of 451
    hands sandonhands sandon Posts: 5,270member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Robin Huber View Post


    I genuinely do sympathize with you. I have no doubt that you are having these problems.



    But something happened to me the other day that got me thinking. I was driving our new car and realized that there was a certain driving position that I was accustomed to using in our old car that I could not achieve in the new one. Same make, but a new year and model. It was just different. I am having to learn to get comfortable with a different geometry of hand, foot, and arm. I like the new car enough that I am willing to undergo the frustration of adjusting to a position that feels somewhat abnormal to me. But I am getting used to it.



    The 4 is a new design too. Mine hasn't arrived yet, so I am speculating. Maybe after a period of adjusting to the minuses of this new design, the the plus features will compensate? Just a thought to consider, not meant to minimize you negative experience at all.



    I'm quite sure you will love the iP4. Yes, you can hold it differently relatively easily and get no signal issues, indeed better than before, but it can get laborious after a while. You just start feeling like holding it falling into your palm instead of having to prop it up so it doesn't just through gravity sit in your palm, if you hold it in your left hand at least as I think most people do. It's certainly doable and you quickly get into the habit, but I think you get what I'm saying. Clearly though not everyone is having issues and hopefully you won't. My old 3G case completely illuminates any reception problems, but it doesn't fit properly and blocks the flash, 2 other cases made a very noticeable difference and I'm sure case manufacturers will be rushing to make cases that claim to be a full reception fix.



    Best of luck to you anyway.
  • Reply 49 of 451
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Wiggin View Post


    That right there says there is a problem with Apple's design of exposing the antennas to direct contact with skin. No other cell phone has this problem because no other phone allowed such direct contact. Or what, I'm never supposed to use my phone when I'm sweating?



    Maybe read up more about it? Apple's antenna design has actually introduced some excellent new advances in the antenna while at the same time introducing a drawback, and that drawback is not sufficient to cause real fuss for most people (especially when combined with the benefits).
  • Reply 50 of 451
    hands sandonhands sandon Posts: 5,270member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Xian Zhu Xuande View Post


    There was a person who posted a video of an iPhone 4 which completely cut out as soon as the magic spot was touched. On the other hand, this is an anomaly, as is anything near as extreme. For what it's worth I know at least two dozen people who have one now and all are happier with their experience over their previous iPhones, and I've dropped very few calls now in four states.



    I know this does not reflect your own experience, but it does suggest that you may have an iPhone which is actually defective (as must have been the case in that video). I would suggest simply returning it to Apple to get a replacement. The only exception I can imagine is if you're constantly in terrible signal areas where the -10 to -25 dB drop could potentially become a real issue, in which case it may really be bumper or return.





    I'm getting a replacement from Vodafone so I can but hope it works better till I get it next week. I've travelled around with it a fair bit now and have seen dramatic signal loss everywhere whilst holding it so I think that perfectly reasonable reception areas are now out of bounds, at least on the phone I've currently got.
  • Reply 51 of 451
    robin huberrobin huber Posts: 3,983member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post


    I'm quite sure you will love the iP4. Yes, you can hold it differently relatively easily and get no signal issues, indeed better than before, but it can get laborious after a while. You just start feeling like holding it falling into your palm instead of having to prop it up so it doesn't just through gravity sit in your palm and at the same time you need to keep your fingers away from the lower left side. certainl;y doable and you quickly get into the habit, but I think you get what I'm saying. Clearly though not everyone is having issues and hopefully you won't. My old 3G case completely illuminates any reception problems, but it doesn't fit properly and blocks the flash, 2 other cases made a very noticeable difference and I'm sure case manufacturers will be rushing to make cases that claim to be a full reception fix.



    Best of luck to you anyway.



    Being on the outside looking in on this argument is very odd. I am anxious to get the thing in my hand so I can finally get my own experience with it. Will be happy if it is better than my 3G, annoyed if it isn't.
  • Reply 52 of 451
    singngsingng Posts: 2member
    I believe Consumer Report more than casual internet bloggers and lawyers. If you are one of the lucky individuals who have bought iPhone 4. Try sell it on eBay. Overseas buyers will gladly buy from you with big premiums. Eager Chinese buyers have paid $2000 for each iPhone 4.
  • Reply 53 of 451
    lewchenkolewchenko Posts: 123member
    After reading a gazillion forum posts about the iPhone4's reception woes, reviews, and user experience I actually decided against purchasing for the following reasons :



    a) Apple's PR (issue resolved by changing the bars... I think not)



    b) Simply touching the bands of the antenna together is enough to potentially lose a call (according to many who actually own an iPhone4)



    c) Cheaper Android High Spec phones now available that dont suffer this problem as badly.



    d) Apple not willing to give out bumpers to resolve it and expecting us to pay $30 for them (a rip off basically)







    I cant justify this purchase anymore, so am now looking to Motorola Droid X/Incredible or HTC for my new smartphone. I do however still love my iMac, so its not like Apple has lost me as a customer fully... just not for their phones.



    This would have been my first iPhone too.
  • Reply 54 of 451
    sockrolidsockrolid Posts: 2,789member
    That frivolous lawsuit against Apple for "reception issues" is looking more stupid every day. It's a publicity grab by the law firm. And it's probably part of a FUD campaign propelled by Google and/or Microsoft and/or RIM and/or Nokia.



    Maybe Apple should just remove the signal strength bar indicator entirely. It would clean up the interface slightly since users would only see "AT&T 3G" or "AT&T E" or "No signal". No confusing, misleading bars.
  • Reply 55 of 451
    mobilitymobility Posts: 135member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by kresh View Post


    And I am old enough to remember when Consumer Reports was above paid reviews (blogging in today's vernacular).



    They used to only review a category of products and impartially evaluate them, this blog entry just reeks.



    Do you know that the law requires (or will require) you to disclose if you have been compensated for your review of a product?



    How can you unilaterally sling mud at everyone who writes a review (blogs) without proof?



    What does this entry by consumer reports reek of and why?
  • Reply 56 of 451
    mobilitymobility Posts: 135member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by lewchenko View Post


    After reading a gazillion forum posts about the iPhone4's reception woes, reviews, and user experience I actually decided against purchasing for the following reasons :



    a) Apple's PR (issue resolved by changing the bars... I think not)



    b) Simply touching the bands of the antenna together is enough to potentially lose a call (according to many who actually own an iPhone4)



    c) Cheaper Android High Spec phones now available that dont suffer this problem as badly.



    d) Apple not willing to give out bumpers to resolve it and expecting us to pay $30 for them (a rip off basically)







    I cant justify this purchase anymore, so am now looking to Motorola Droid X/Incredible or HTC for my new smartphone. I do however still love my iMac, so its not like Apple has lost me as a customer fully... just not for their phones.



    This would have been my first iPhone too.



    That's too bad really. Oh well.
  • Reply 57 of 451
    mobilitymobility Posts: 135member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by apple4life View Post


    I disagree. I've happily owned a 3G for nearly two years without this issue. And that, my friend, is called evidence. And apparently I am not alone.



    As an RF engineer and PROUD, vocal apple-fan, I hate to disagree with most of you. My new iPhone 4 has a reception issue. It's not a display issue, it's a signal strength issue caused by "shorting" the two antennas. Period. Just holding a single finger across that gap I go from 5 bars to Searching... with no cellular connectivity at all - no web pages loading, no e-mail, nothing. That is not a display issue. Try it yourself. We can all drink the koolaid, pretend nothing is wrong, and laud everything else that is great about this phone and Apple, but I'll bet you right now that next spring's iPhone (or January's vPhone) will not have this issue. Will I return mine? No, I'll just hold it differently. But I am dissatisfied with Apple's explanation of this mess. Anyone remember Gateway?



    As a fellow engineer you can surely agree that just because you reproduce complete and total communication loss over the radio, doesn't mean everyone else can.



    Try switching your unit if you're willing to invest energy?
  • Reply 58 of 451
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Robin Huber View Post


    Being on the outside looking in on this argument is very odd. I am anxious to get the thing in my hand so I can finally get my own experience with it. Will be happy if it is better than my 3G, annoyed if it isn't.



    i hold it just like every other iphone i have had-

    and i don't find trying to avoid the lower area in question unnatural in any way whatsoever...



    i mean - other than this unnatural hold thing - perhaps this is a mal-batch of iphones-but remember - people see what they want to see-and perhaps i am as well and my perception is somehow flawed as well as 8 of my friends...



    for the record: i purchased mine at full retail price $599.99+8.75(?)sales tax-on Tuesday Jun 29, 2010 - worth every single penny! best phone i have ever had - no question.



    it's all so puzzling eh?
  • Reply 59 of 451
    mobilitymobility Posts: 135member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Wiggin View Post


    Wow, talk about selective (ie, biased) interpretations...



    "Those grips may also produce sweaty palms from exertion, with the sweat increasing conductivity?and possibly the degree of signal loss."



    That right there says there is a problem with Apple's design of exposing the antennas to direct contact with skin. No other cell phone has this problem because no other phone allowed such direct contact. Or what, I'm never supposed to use my phone when I'm sweating?



    "Using a cover, iPhone 4 performed even better."



    Again, evidence that direct contact is bad. Do covers help other cell phones?



    But in all fairness, AI is doing the CR article an injustice by only quoting one-sided parts of the CR post, which includes:



    "That interference is exacerbated if the phone's antenna is not insulated from human contact. And that seems to be the case with the iPhone's external antenna"



    So CR is, in fact, saying that Apple's decision to expose the antenna was a bad one.



    It's too bad the CR article quoted only the favorable parts of the AnandTech article and didn't state the significant signal strength the iPhone lost when held certain ways. Far more than any other phone which doesn't have to deal with direct contact.



    Is the iPhones increased sensitivity enough to overcome the increased signal loss? This remains to be seen/proven.



    Talking about selective interpretations, I think we can both agree that if you can't quote an entire article you should just quote the conclusion. Hence, presented here for unbiased interpretation is CR's bottom line (as they put it):



    Bottom line: There's no reason, at least yet, to forgo buying an iPhone 4 over its reception concerns. And even if those do materialize, Apple's Steve Jobs helpfully reminds new iPhone buyers that "you can return your undamaged iPhone to any Apple Retail Store or the online Apple Store within 30 days of purchase for a full refund."
  • Reply 60 of 451
    galoregalore Posts: 35member
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post


    I know Android has issues and am very pleased that you are experiencing no problems and enjoying a wonderful iPhone 4. I wish I was you. I on the other hand am not. I'm not stupid and I certainly don't think because someone says the iPhone 4 has a problem that I should expect to experience it necessarily. I have the problem because time after time since my ip4 activated on the 24th June all I have to do is use my phone in a way that feels comfortable and helps my phone from falling out of my hand, that's the same way I held my iPhone 3G that I'd had since a week after it's launch, to get serious signal loss to the point where I can't load internet pages and get "call failed". I can't even make a call if I don't release my hand from the lower part of the left side of the phone before I make the call more often than not. So kindly respect that this for me is a big issue.



    I really understand Steve Job's response MUCH better now.



    Can't you just hold it a little bit differently. I mean, it's not SUCH a huge deal to NOT cover that stupid gap.



    It's really difficult to "kindly respect" you on this. Maybe if you have a physical condition that makes it impossible for you to hold the phone in a way that makes it work. Do yourself a favor and return the phone if you have so little self control as to not touch the "gap of doom".



    Sheesh - some people are just primadonnas. I mean, sure, my IP4 drops bars if I hold it "naturally" (for me). So I just move my pinky and the phone gets awesome connectivity. Is that SO difficult to do?!
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